The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ampulator" data-cite="ampulator" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div> do you see feel that the future of MMA is in the lighter weight classes? It certainly feels that way to me now. IT just eeems there's better fights MW or lower nowadays.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> There's a couple of theories at work...one is that on average, the world over, there are more 'athletic' people in the 125-185lb range than there are 205 and above, especially when we're looking at the 265lb range. Ergo, there will be on average more MMA fighters in those divisions, and more 'high-level' fighters will be moulded from that sample than the smaller 205+ sample. </p><p> </p><p> At the same time though, you have the 'Godzilla Theory' - People like seeing a couple of huge dudes wreaking havoc. With literally a handful of exceptions, the only people to make serious money in this sport (both personally and in terms of the revenue they generate for their promoters) have been big guys. Someone (I think it was MMAPayout) did a ton of research on the top 1- PPV draws in the UFC (hence MMA) recently...no surprises in the top 10 - Lesnar, Couture, Liddell, Rampage etc...only two guys below 185 made the list, Penn and St Pierre. Now it's not an exact science, but it's not exactly inaccurate either. </p><p> </p><p> So it depends on what you mean by 'the future'. In terms of more exciting fights and talented athletes, until MMA can compete with the NFL on base salaries (so never), the future is below 185. </p><p> </p><p> In terms of financials though, with the odd exception, the big guys bring in the scratch.</p>

[Daffanka]

Do I think the lighter dudes will ever eclipse the kind of enormous hype generated around two giant dudes beating the crap out of each other? No.

 

Do I think that the lighter weight classes will eventually feature some of the absolute best fighters in the world? Definitely. Give it a few years and you'll have something resembling the ultra competitive UFC 155lbs class. I can't wait for all the mega talented, super gifted lighter guys to get into MMA and wreak some havoc. 145 and down are still very much in the process of building a hierarchy and it's going to be really exciting to see how guys like Aldo fare.

 

Also regarding the actual talent pool... it's much easier to find athletically gifted men at the smaller weight classes and the few huge guys who are as athletic as a Lesnar or a Velasquez are generally snapped up by the much better paying sports like football or basketball. I think this is going to change slightly and I don't think we'll ever see a Tim Sylvia as champion again but the heavyweight division isn't ever going to feature so many really, really good fighters as the 155 and 170 divisions do today, and presumably 145, 135 and 125 will in the future.

 

e: Wow did Strikeforce actually release Galvao? Just for him to head to the TUF house? Christ.

[ampulator]

e: Wow did Strikeforce actually release Galvao? Just for him to head to the TUF house? Christ.

Andre Galvao did really, really bad in his last match. He fought so stupid, it wasn't funny.

[Daffanka]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ampulator" data-cite="ampulator" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Andre Galvao did really, really bad in his last match. He fought so stupid, it wasn't funny.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Getting blasted out of the water by Woodley really isn't all that indicative of being someone not worth keeping around.</p><p> </p><p> Galvao hasn't exactly turned out to be the mega prospect a lot of people (myself included) though he'd be but he's still not a bad fighter by any means and I think it's mind boggling that they let him go. Apparently they gave Amoussou they same treatment and he's largely in the same situation.</p>

[ampulator]

Getting blasted out of the water by Woodley really isn't all that indicative of being someone not worth keeping around.

 

Galvao hasn't exactly turned out to be the mega prospect a lot of people (myself included) though he'd be but he's still not a bad fighter by any means and I think it's mind boggling that they let him go. Apparently they gave Amoussou they same treatment and he's largely in the same situation.

That's a fair point, but here's the thing. About the only thing the guy is good at, is BJJ. Sure, if we had to choose to be one-dimensional at one thing, BJJ is a good choice.

 

But his wrestling really, really sucked, general or MMA-specific wrestling, in that match. He also fought stupid. He gets pounded a couple of times for a bad takedown. His response? He dives in AGAIN. And AGAIN. *facepalm*

 

After the first two times, he should have known that wouldn't have worked. Terrible setup for the takedowns.

 

That being said, his current record isn't so bad, but I'm not so surprised they let him go.

[SaySo]

UFC fighter Roy Nelson said this week that he is looking to fight Brock Lesnar or Undertaker, too, if given the chance. "I think it's great that Brock wants to fight me," Nelson said in an interview with BloodyElbow.com. "It would be a great matchup and I believe the fans want to see it so let's make it happen. I don't care if it is in the UFC or the WWE... let's just get down to it." He added: "If Brock still doesn't want to fight there I guess I'll take on the Undertaker because I'm sure he'd be happy to fight me. We can do Hell in the Cell or we can even do a complete throwback and sign a Lion's Den match like Ken Shamrock. I can get paid to act."

[The Bus]

<p>Finnish Open 2010</p><p> </p><p>

Tomorrow starting at 9.00 GMT free live stream from Finnish Open 2010. It's an amateur MMA tournament with several weight classes. The event will take place at Lappeenranta, Finland.</p><p> </p><p>

<a href="http://www.mmalappeenranta.com/fn5_video.php" rel="external nofollow">The stream can be found from this link.</a></p>

[Self]

Just finished watching the WEC event. I love Team Alpha Male. Not only is their name bad ass (in a frat sorta way) but I loved the shots of Mendes and Faber watching Benavidez' match. The best stable in combat sports today.

[The Bus]

Finnish Open 2010 amateur tournament and Fight Night 5 by MMA Lappeenranta <a href="http://www.justin.tv/mmalappeenranta" rel="external nofollow">can be found from this link.</a> Commentary is on finnish. I was part of the production crew as the play-by-play announcer and jack of all other trades. If you have a look, please give your comments. All feedback is very much appreciated. Take notice this is a 3 man production plus colour commentator, so it certainly isn't "pro quality".

[Daffanka]

<p>Big time spoilers for UFC 122 (highlight):</p><p>

</p><p><span style="color:#FFFFFF;">

Well it wasn't very good but I'm glad Okami got a well deserved win. Wish he'd cracked off at least one hook or head kick on Nate's stupid nonsensically moving head. Siver - Winner was the only good fight on the main card though Okami - Nate and the Sadollah fight were all right. The other two were just offensively bad. It's a free card blah blah the fights were still bad.</span></p><p><span style="color:#FFFFFF;"> </span></p><p><span style="color:#FFFFFF;">

The prelims really were a lot better than the main card. I wouldn't be surprised if they replaced several main card fights with some of those</span></p>

[TheKenwyne]

Highlight for my also spoiler-iffic answer

 

Agree with everything you said, except K-Soz actually fought well to negate Relic's wall-and-stall game. Give the guy sone kudos.

 

And Spike have confirmed their changing up their card - I assume the three prelims they showed after the ME and Noke's RNC will make their way on in place of K-Soz - Relic and Oscip-Ludwing. Juding was retarded tonight too - what's with the 30-28 Oscip card in that fight?

 

My scorecards:

 

Oscip 27-29 Ludwig

K-Soz 29-28 Relic

Sadollah 30-27 Sobotta

Okami 29-28 Marquardt

[ChrisKid]

that was a good show considering it was the first one i had watched

[Daffanka]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TheKenwyne" data-cite="TheKenwyne" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Agree with everything you said, except K-Soz actually fought well to negate Relic's wall-and-stall game. Give the guy sone kudos.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm glad he didn't fight like he fought against Bonnar and lost but it really was not a fun fight to watch outside of the last minute or so.</p><p> </p><p> As usual I came around a little more to this event when I woke up and wasn't drunk. The first three fights were still varying degrees of bad but the co-main and main were good (although my vested interest and 100% platonic love for Okami might have something to do with me enjoying him not getting robbed in a big fight for once.)</p><p> </p><p> I think they really needed to have Rivera - Sakara on that card because aside from Okami - Nate it was the only fight with guys actually coming off wins facing each other. It was also guaranteed fireworks and if we'd started the night off with Winner - Siver instead of that getting co-main duty I think a lot of people would've been a lot happier.</p><p> </p><p> At the end it was a throwaway free German card that they stacked with as many Europeans as possible and since they were all coming off losses (<img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />) they put some other guys with losses in there as well. 123 should be really good since there's some real quality guys fighting.</p><p> </p><p> e: I should also point out that I think this is the highest work rate Okami has ever had in a fight against a good opponent. I was really, really happy to see him not be tentative and useless for the first two rounds before turning it up.</p>

[TheKenwyne]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ChrisKid" data-cite="ChrisKid" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>that was a good show considering it was the first one i had watched</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> There are sooo many better ones on their way buddy. Tape/stay up late for UFC 123 next weekend. That should be quality.</p><p> </p><p> Fun fact from last night: Amir Sadollah broke the record for the most leg kicks in a fight with 46, overtaking the previous record of 39 held by Anderson Silva (and that was over 5 rounds!)</p><p> </p><p> Awards go almost entirely to the prelims..</p><p> </p><p> Fight of the Night: Pascal Krauss vs. Mark Scanlon</p><p> Sub of the Night: Dennis Siver (Gable gripped RNC)</p><p> Knockout of the Night: Karlos Vemola (Ground and pound leading to a broken nose)</p><p> </p><p> Just under 8,500 peeps in attendance. Dissapointing for the UFC, that must be the lowest gate they've had all year.</p>

[Self]

Well. That was a boring show. Maybe it's because of all of the Dragon Gate and WEC I've been watching, but that was a chore to get trough. A bunch of counter-punchers circling each other, waiting to react. Each 15 minute fight had like 30 seconds of actual action. At least they showed a bunch of undercard finishes to end the show. After Okami/Nate I was ready to call it quits on the whole MMA thing.

[TheKenwyne]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Self" data-cite="Self" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Well. That was a boring show. Maybe it's because of all of the Dragon Gate and WEC I've been watching, but that was a chore to get trough. A bunch of counter-punchers circling each other, waiting to react. Each 15 minute fight had like 30 seconds of actual action. At least they showed a bunch of undercard finishes to end the show. After Okami/Nate I was ready to call it quits on the whole MMA thing.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah. Siver/Winner and the first round of Oscip/Ludwig was pretty much the only thing to reccomend the main card. Lots of fun stuff on the prelims - there was a three round war that didn't make the air over here but I have since looked up. Looking forward to the WEC merger more than ever after that show - they should make it law every UFC card has at least one pair of hyper bantams trying to cave each other's faces in. <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Dustin]

So, how long do the people here think it'll be before we see the flyweight (125 lb/57 kg/9 stone) division added to the UFC? Do you think they'll end up waiting a couple of years to let the bantamweights and featherweights settle in (and let flyweight get a little deeper) or do you think they'll add it in the near future?

[Tag01]

I think we get an announcement or actually get flyweights by summer 2011. 125 is basically where 135 in the early zuffa WEC. There's a lot of raw talent and some stars in the making, they just need a stage. Adding the smaller classes to ufc will create a pretty big shift with a number of lightweights finally dropping to 145, which will push some featherweights to 135 and likewise some bantams to 125. Between benavidez, johnson, M-16, and jucie formiga there already some contenders to build around without even getting into mining Shooto. There's a great cuba boxing olympian making some waves at 125 now to. At the end of the day, the biggest thing that will make it happen sooner rather than later is having 2-4 more title fights per year to bolster cards with.

[brashleyholland]

So, how long do the people here think it'll be before we see the flyweight (125 lb/57 kg/9 stone) division added to the UFC? Do you think they'll end up waiting a couple of years to let the bantamweights and featherweights settle in (and let flyweight get a little deeper) or do you think they'll add it in the near future?

 

It wont be a couple of years, but it probably wont be a couple of months either. 135 is only just getting depth to it, 125 is years behind. On the flip side, there will be plenty of young kids who are future 135-145lb'ers if they want to go down that route - although historically the UFC don't fill their divisions with <20-year-olds.

 

It's swings and roundabouts though....if the UFC starts giving flyweights an opportunity, you can bet your bottom dollar that decent fighters at that weight will start coming out of the woodwork. Also, if their plans to expand into Mexico, Brazil and China over the next 3-5 years go as planned, they'll be tapping the talent pool in those nations for 125'ers.

 

6 months to a year? We shall see...

[Dustin]

I hope the two of you are right about it happening within the next 12 months. I've been eager to see this division since the WEC first announced that they were going to add it 2-3 years ago. Johnson and Benavidez are already beasts at bantamweight so it'll be very interesting to see them in their natural weight class.

 

Also, does anyone know if Mackens Semerzier is heading to the UFC or if he got released? He lost three in a row, which is usually a big no-no, but it'd suck to see him cut after his excellent fight last week. I'm asking because I can't find anything about it and they don't usually announce WEC cuts like they do with the UFC.

[brashleyholland]

So there was a rumour about a month back that a 'reasonably major' UFC name's representatives were putting out feelers for a jump to the WWE. I heard three names from people 'in the know', one of which later turned out to be hot air.

 

The other two names out there were Matt Mitrione and Roy Nelson. The reasoning behind the 'Meathead' rumour didn't do it for me, plus he's not what I would call even a 'reasonably major name' - but maybe I'm underestimating what the Kimbo win did for his popularity in the US? Anyway, lots of sites seem to have picked up on the Nelson thing this past week or so.

 

For anyone who hasn't read it yet, Nelson signed a contract about two years ago with Roy Jones Jr's 'Square Ring Promotions' to compete on their boxing/MMA PPV in March of 09. Turns out that they still have some kind of options on Nelson's career, and are suing Nelson and the UFC. No word on how much merit their case has, but it's serious enough to get him pulled from UFC 125 and to have his UFC career publicly put 'on ice' by Dana White.

 

So assuming the guy in question was Nelson, what say people to 'Big Country' in the WWE?

[brashleyholland]

 

Also, does anyone know if Mackens Semerzier is heading to the UFC or if he got released? He lost three in a row, which is usually a big no-no, but it'd suck to see him cut after his excellent fight last week. I'm asking because I can't find anything about it and they don't usually announce WEC cuts like they do with the UFC.

 

I *think* he's out, but on one of their "get a couple of wins and give us a call" type deals. Will try and find out though

[Dustin]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So there was a rumour about a month back that a 'reasonably major' UFC name's representatives were putting out feelers for a jump to the WWE. I heard three names from people 'in the know', one of which later turned out to be hot air. <p> </p><p> The other two names out there were Matt Mitrione and Roy Nelson. The reasoning behind the 'Meathead' rumour didn't do it for me, plus he's not what I would call even a 'reasonably major name' - but maybe I'm underestimating what the Kimbo win did for his popularity in the US? Anyway, lots of sites seem to have picked up on the Nelson thing this past week or so. </p><p> </p><p> For anyone who hasn't read it yet, Nelson signed a contract about two years ago with Roy Jones Jr's 'Square Ring Promotions' to compete on their boxing/MMA PPV in March of 09. Turns out that they still have some kind of options on Nelson's career, and are suing Nelson and the UFC. No word on how much merit their case has, but it's serious enough to get him pulled from UFC 125 and to have his UFC career publicly put 'on ice' by Dana White. </p><p> </p><p> So assuming the guy in question <em>was</em> Nelson, what say people to 'Big Country' in the WWE?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I read something about this a while back saying "one of the last guys you'd expect" and Roy is just that for me (given his physique and all).</p>

[Self]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It wont be a couple of years, but it probably wont be a couple of months either. 135 is only just getting depth to it, 125 is years behind. On the flip side, there will be plenty of young kids who are future 135-145lb'ers if they want to go down that route - although historically the UFC don't fill their divisions with <20-year-olds. <p> </p><p> It's swings and roundabouts though....if the UFC starts giving flyweights an opportunity, you can bet your bottom dollar that decent fighters at that weight will start coming out of the woodwork. Also, if their plans to expand into Mexico, Brazil and China over the next 3-5 years go as planned, they'll be tapping the talent pool in those nations for 125'ers. </p><p> </p><p> 6 months to a year? We shall see...</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm not saying they won't do it. I'm not saying it's a bad idea. However, I wouldn't introduce the 125lb weight class. </p><p> </p><p> First, the more weight classes you have, the worse off you are in my opinion. It makes it harder to keep track of as a casual fan. I'm struggling to get my head around this WEC merger as it is.</p><p> </p><p> Second, how small is too small? You've already got 3 weight classes for folks I'd consider 'small dudes'. Another one? I'm a small guy, growing up I was the smallest boy in my class, and even now I tend to be smaller than everyone at work and at the gym. I'm 5'8, and 150-odd points. I'd probably weigh into the 145lbs division. That there's one division below that is understandable, there are freakishly small dudes out there. Another division? I just... I can't quite get that. Besides, are fights at 125lbs any better than at 145lbs? So unless there are some major stars ready to come out of the woodwork (that you know exist) I wouldn't do it.</p><p> </p><p> Ah, ramblings.</p>

[Daffanka]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> So assuming the guy in question <em>was</em> Nelson, what say people to 'Big Country' in the WWE?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> A shame because I still want to see him beat Mir.</p>