The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[ampulator]

Just had a hint dropped to me by someone that is not normally wrong that depending on what happens this weekend, Dan Henderson is being looked at as a potential opponent for the winner of Shogun vs Griffin 2 as a number one contender fight, possibly in December.

 

Also heard the interesting little nugget that Franklin vs Bonnar/Little Nog could happen as the co-main event of UFC 138 in the UK. Wouldn't mind that at all!

 

Little Nog is one of my all time favs, and I haven't seen him fight live. I actually booked a trip to Japan for the 2005 GP finals in part to see him fight (also for Fedor vs Cro Cop, which was the biggest fight in MMA at the time). The Critical Countdown fight between Rogerio and Shogun is one of my favourite bouts of all time, yet it's also the reason I ended up travelling to the other side of the planet and not seeing Little Nog fight. Swings and roundabouts.

 

That whole trip was a mix of awesome and depressing now that I think about it. No Nogueira, Wand lost a grinding decision to Arona that stopped his 18-fight LHW unbeaten run, Tank Abbott (one of the first NHB guys I got into in the 90's) was humiliated (infact, every time I've seen Tank fight live he's lost) and Roman Zentzov, a Russian fighter that I expect none of you have heard of but who I know quite well, was tapped in short order by some WORLD CLASS heavyweight guy. On the plus side I got to eat a ton of sushi and shabu-shabu, meet Igor Vovchanchyn for the third time and see Shogun cap off what I consider to be the best Grand Prix run in Pride history.

I know I debated this before, but "World Class" is rather vague... and where there is vagueness, there needs to be strict interpretation to define something.

 

This was PRIDE Final Conflict 2005, I presume? When he tapped Roman Zentsov, he was 5-0-1, after tapping him, he was 6-0-1.

 

Like I said before, I never said he wasn't a top-ranked Heavyweight - he most definitely is. But "World Class" is a huge stretch, unless, you are talking about BJJ, in which case, he is most definitely a world class BJJ practioner. As a MMA Fighter, I like him personally, but he has way too many wholes to be "World Class" if you ask me. Top ranked Heavyweight? Yes. "World class"? Well, he's a threat to anyone in the Heavyweight Division on the ground, always. But he can't get it there easily, and his striking is, at best, so-so.

 

Besides, "World Class" in MMA should reserved for the likes of Anderson Silva or GSP currently, and Wanerlei Silva and Fedor Emelienko (probably spelled that wrong, darn it), in their primes. Anyone that can be the PFP lists around the world, basically.

 

I more object to the use of the word "world class" more than anything else. If something can mean a million things, I generally don't use it. I just had "world class" chinese food tonight. What does that mean really? Not much. I certainly didn't eat "Pound for Pound"... at least I hope I didn't.

[brashleyholland]

I know I debated this before, but "World Class" is rather vague... and where there is vagueness, there needs to be strict interpretation to define something.

 

This was PRIDE Final Conflict 2005, I presume? When he tapped Roman Zentsov, he was 5-0-1, after tapping him, he was 6-0-1.

 

Like I said before, I never said he wasn't a top-ranked Heavyweight - he most definitely is. But "World Class" is a huge stretch, unless, you are talking about BJJ, in which case, he is most definitely a world class BJJ practioner. As a MMA Fighter, I like him personally, but he has way too many wholes to be "World Class" if you ask me. Top ranked Heavyweight? Yes. "World class"? Well, he's a threat to anyone in the Heavyweight Division on the ground, always. But he can't get it there easily, and his striking is, at best, so-so.

 

Besides, "World Class" in MMA should reserved for the likes of Anderson Silva or GSP currently, and Wanerlei Silva and Fedor Emelienko (probably spelled that wrong, darn it), in their primes. Anyone that can be the PFP lists around the world, basically.

 

I more object to the use of the word "world class" more than anything else. If something can mean a million things, I generally don't use it. I just had "world class" chinese food tonight. What does that mean really? Not much. I certainly didn't eat "Pound for Pound"... at least I hope I didn't.

 

He shoots, he scores....I'm officially changing my screen name to BrashleyTrolland :-p

[ampulator]

He shoots, he scores....I'm officially changing my screen name to BrashleyTrolland :-p

Hey, to be fair to you, I think it's pretty clear that I wouldn't not have been able to resist

 

By the way, do you know what is going with Overeem? Everyone is so hush-hush about what about happened. Usually you get at least one party putting out a statement. All Overeem's people did was post a video, one that I don't think helps his case any.

[brashleyholland]

Hey, to be fair to you, I think it's pretty clear that I wouldn't not have been able to resist

 

 

 

By the way, do you know what is going with Overeem? Everyone is so hush-hush about what about happened. Usually you get at least one party putting out a statement. All Overeem's people did was post a video, one that I don't think helps his case any.

 

I'd sorta had a heads up on the whole situation from some friends over in Holland re: what happened with The Reem over the past couple of weeks. As for what happens next, his camp are playing things very close to their chest. There are some supposedly big things happening with It's Showtime over the next 12 months, and K-1 is also potentially out of the poop short-term...at least to the point that we might see some kind of WGP this year.

 

My slightly educated guess would be that Reem is waiting out the WGP/New Years offers before deciding where to go next. He won't be boxing a Klitchko in the next 12 months though.

[KingJoel]

Also heard the interesting little nugget that Franklin vs Bonnar/Little Nog could happen as the co-main event of UFC 138 in the UK. Wouldn't mind that at all!

 

 

*dies of over-excitement*

[brashleyholland]

Here's fun...credit to Zeus Tipado at Middle Easy, who I'm stealing this from.

 

Watch this...

 

 

...and tell me what the outcome should be. Basically what we have is a couple of fighters clinching. The buzzer goes to end the round, Fighter A releases the clinch, Fighter B throws a punch that puts him out. What should the outcome be?

 

The official result was a (T)KO for fighter B at 3:00 of the 1st round (3min rounds) as Fighter A could not continue. He is appealing the outcome.

 

The options you have are T(KO), DQ or No Contest. If you think it was a justified strike, then it'd be a T(KO). If you think he threw it after the bell, but it was an accident, it'd be a NC. If you think he purposefully slugged him after the bell, it's a DQ. Lot of grey areas here though, interested to see what you guys think.

[btorrie]

well for me, its definately not a TKO.

 

Strike was after the bell, and it wasnt like he threw it before the bell and it landed after.

 

Its very hard to tell, but from Fighter Bs walk away/reaction. I think that its possibly a DQ.

 

But unless its an obvious foul strike, i think i'd go for a No Contest.

[ampulator]

Edit: should have watched better. I would consider it a DQ or a No Contest.

[LoNdOn]

I believe he threw the punch deliberately after the bell out of frustration so I would say DQ.

[Capelli King]

What a year can do in MMA. Fedor was considered the best ever, he lost a submission to Werdum, but everyone still considered that as being a "lucky" submission in a fight he was winning.

 

Then came the fight with big foot, a fight he was dominated, but many people were saying that maybe he simply is too small for fighting at HW any more.

 

The he lost to a MW, 40 year old in the first round.........................i do not think there is too much you can find to counter. Fedor is probably finished as a proper HW threat.

 

To be honest, i think Fedor has screwed up his gameplan over the past 3 years. He had a VERY strong ground game, 16 of his 31 wins are submissions, however he seems to not even bother getting people down, never tries any takedowns at all. His wrestling is not that good and his boxing is mainly "swing and pray it lands", so without him using his ground game, he is "mortal".

 

People forget he is a 10 time+ world HW Sambo champion, a title he was defending until a couple of years ago and in sambo you can only win by submission or KO or grappling positioning (there is no striking rating).

 

I have no idea why he abandoned that part of his game.

[Daffanka]

I've thought for a long time that Fedor's weakness are good grapplers, particularly the ones with a strong base who can dominate positionally.

 

People always point to the first Nogueira fight as proof he's a dynamite grappler but they neglect to mention that Nogueira couldn't walk unassisted and had painkillers shot directly into his spine before that fight. In the second one Nog looked a million times better and never let Fedor get a lot of offense off while attacking effectively off his back even though he fought Sergei for 15 minutes and Fedor got Naoyo Ogawa earlier in the night, and in the third Fedor wouldn't even dream of going to the ground with Nog and the little time they did spend there was marked by Nog taking his back and nearly tapping him with an armbar before the bell rang.

 

And then you have Arona dominating him and getting robbed in 2000, Coleman taking his back with both hooks in before inexplicably pulling one of his hooks out and getting swept, Mark Hunt of all people sweeping and nearly submitting Fedor, Herring spending the last minute of their fight dropping knees on him from side control and so on. If you actually look for good grapplers he's been able to hang with on the floor when they weren't too injured to stand you won't find anything.

 

Fedor was a very good fighter by 2002-2008 standards but he did have, and still has, some very apparent flaws which never get properly analyzed because he fought and won so much back when heavyweight MMA was still learning to walk and never stepped into the ring with Barnett or Couture or someone who could expose his flaws as a fighter. You might frown on this comparison but I think he's very similar to Frank Mir in the grappling department; very good at grabbing submissions when they make themselves apparent but cannot play the position game without leaving big gaps and taking big risks.

 

I don't think Fedor is a bad fighter but he's got problems that aren't related to abandoning his gameplans. He fought his last three fights exactly like he's fought all the other ones, except now he's taking on the most accomplished no-gi grappler in the heavyweight division, a huge guy who can grapple and someone who can brawl with the best of them.

 

e: wow completely lost my train of thought, edited in some bits that I missed

[bigtplaystew]

Fedor is the greatest heavyweight of all time. Period. There isn't a heavyweight alive who has accomplished what he has over a career. Yet.

 

He's a little past his prime at this point. If you have watched his fights over the years you can see he's not nearly as cool and calm and collected as he used to be. I think psychologically his head isn't where it needs to be anymore. That's a personal opinion admittedly not based on much other than what I see and my interpretation of it.

 

But unfortunately too many people are overreacting. We've seen this before. A guy hits a certain point in his career when for whatever reason he is no longer the fighter he once was. Fedor is at that point right now. Unfortunately, many disrespectful fans are taking his last three fights and looking at the past through very foggy lenses and taking way too much away from him and his past accomplishments.

 

 

And BTW... he lost to Dan Henderson. It's not like he lost to Robbie Lawler or Jacare. He lost to Hendo. Hendo is one of the greatest fighters to ever grace the sport. And Fedor came within a hair of KOing him, which has never been done before. I take nothing away from Henderson. The way he went out the back door and got out from under Fedor was extremely impressive, and he drilled Fedor with a sick shot that stunned him just long enough to get the stoppage.

 

 

It's such a weird situation. You have some people screaming that it was a fix in favor of Hendo. You have others saying Hendo "completely destroyed" Fedor. You have others saying Fedor had no buisness losing to a guy that small. Lots of unclear interpretations of what they saw in that fight I think. I don't know why, it's fairly plain to see. Two great fighters that had alot of respect for each other came out swinging. One of them was going to get stopped.

 

It happened to be Fedor.

 

It was almost Hendo.

 

That's MMA.

[ampulator]

I don't think people are overreacting, at least I know Daffanka's criticism are somewhat valid. However, I think his biggest problems are physical or skills, but gameplanning and not wanting to change... and lost of drive. To be honest, Fedor isn't a guy that always eager to fight in the first place. He treats it like a job, and not a passion. If he focused and had a solid gameplan, he could cover many of his whole in his game. But his part of an older era, where gameplanning isn't as advanced it was today. As it stands, though, I think he seems mentally lethargic.

[bigtplaystew]

Actually, I found his breakdown to be fairly insightful. He clearly knows what he's talking about. I just disagree.

 

To be more clear and fair, I was more making a statement based on what I've seen around the net, the podcasts, etc. I'm feeling a sense of people taking the attitude of "Fedor was never really that great."

 

I see that the point can be made, but I still disagree fully. You don't go 27 fights without a loss over 9 years because you were never properly tested. Not in MMA. Fedor's probably beaten more top ten ranked opponents (at the time he fought them) than any other HW in history. He's been involved in most of the biggest HW fights in MMA history. He was the number one ranked fighter in the HW division for longer than anyone. Is he the best P4P fighter of all time? Probably not though I've heard the argument made before.

 

Point is, there's a segment of MMA fans that want to take all this away from him because he's dropped three in a row. I simply disagree with that ideology.

 

He's still the greatest HW of all time beyond question. No one accomplished what he has. Yet :-)

[Daffanka]

I'm not saying Fedor wasn't the best heavyweight fighter for a very long stretch of time (though I think Nogueira is "greater" than him just because he's fought literally every single notable heavyweight fighter or their contemporaries and had a million tremendous fights, but that's a different issue) but I am saying that Fedor has never had to deal with the kind of guard player Werdum is or the kind of grappler Bigfoot is, and when he has dealt with someone with a similar skill set he's either been in trouble or completely avoided the ground.

 

The Henderson loss wasn't really part of my argument - it was a wild brawl and Fedor got caught by one of the hardest hitting guys in the sport - but I don't know if it was an aberration since he fought that one like he fought against a lot of guys including Cro Cop where he tries to back his opponent up the entire fight and doesn't necessarily throw with really clean technique. And he was clearly caught unprepared by the uppercut, I don't know if that's because he's never experienced that kind of situation in the gym, if his head was still ringing from the punches he took earlier or what the deal was.

[Fantabulous]

I've always felt that what hurt Fedor's ability was that, even though he was unbeaten for nine years, he hadn't fought a legitimate top-level fighter since Cro Cop in 2005. Even with the best training in the world, and Fedor's training is another factor in his decline, you can't improve yourself or even stay sharp when you're not facing a challenge.

 

The biggest mistake to happen to Fedor in terms of remaining the best fighter in the world was the fight with Mark Hunt. Instead of viewing it as a wake-up call that maybe Fedor is starting to slip and they need to step things up to keep him as the best fighter in the sport, his management saw it as a threat to their cash cow and made sure not to put Fedor in the ring with anybody who could give him a genuine challenge. Fedor the M-1 Money Maker might have benefited greatly but Fedor the MMA Fighter suffered. Fedor would have lost sooner than the Werdum fight but through opponent stupidity and sheer guts, he was able to win fights that very easily could have gone the other way.

 

Fedor at his peak probably was the best Heavyweight fighter of all-time but post-Cro Cop it 2005, it became harder and harder to credibly 'rank' him #1 simply because he was neither facing the best fighters or facing the top ranked fighters.

[bigtplaystew]

Fedor at his peak probably was the best Heavyweight fighter of all-time but post-Cro Cop it 2005, it became harder and harder to credibly 'rank' him #1 simply because he was neither facing the best fighters or facing the top ranked fighters.

 

I can see this point. He still fought arlovski and sylvia, who were on most people's top 10 at the time he fought them but they were definately not the same fighters they once were by the time he got to them. But with respect, Arlovski had won 5 straight before he met Fedor and Sylvia had been comming off of a UFC title fight loss in what was a pretty good HW fight against Big Nog.

 

At least your point is a grounded. You acknowledge that he's still probably the best HW ever. You're simply saying that after 2005 he wasn't fighting the best HW in the world anymore. Can't argue that point, as most of them were fighting for the UFC.

 

I just noticed this thing lately where alot of MMA legends seem to take heat towards the end of their career. Granted, it's a small percentage of MMA fans & writers that are doing it, but it's a loud percentage as well. It's not necessarily anyone on this board - definately not Amp or Daff - your points were very different.

 

I'm simply commenting on something I saw all over the net, the websites, the podcasts. People look at MMA legends at the end of their careers and start to pick them apart. This happened with Chuck and Wandy, who are in my opinion the two best 205 lbs fighters of all time. When they weren't as dominant as they once were, people seem to want to go back and pick apart their carreer and act like we've all been overrating them for too long.

 

NO ONE was saying Fedor was overrated when Strikeforce signed him. He took soem heat for not going to UFC. And some people even went as far as to say it was because he was worried about being exposed, but he was still number 1 HW int he world in every major publication and those detractors were generally dismissed. Now, he's lost 3 in a row and people are acting like he was never that great to begin with when in reality, he's simply not that great in 2011.

[brashleyholland]

Looks like the Zuffa are punishing Golden Glory for the Overeem situation now.

 

Marloes Coenen, Valentijn Overeem and Jon Einemo all cut...

[RedsRule]

Looks like the Zuffa are punishing Golden Glory for the Overeem situation now.

 

Marloes Coenen, Valentijn Overeem and Jon Einemo all cut...

 

Heard about that. Maybe they are just saying F*** off Golden Glory.

[The Shape]

Anecdote time. So on Monday night I go out and notice Paul Daley on the opposite side of a fairly small dancefloor. He sees my reaction (a very visible oh my god or something of that nature) and sort of points at me and cheers. A few minutes later I go say hello, ask him about his last fight, if he'll be back in the UFC, get my mate who has no idea who he is to take a photo and he's generally really cool. Then, a couple of hours later, I notice one of my mates having words with some guy from Daley's entourage. The guy is basically telling him to go away because he bumped into some girl who was with their group or something (like I said, small place) and I step in and try to get my mate to back away and hint that this is probably a guy who knows how to handle himself. Naturally he does not, but he still doesn't do anything provocative, just tries to shake the guy's hand. The guy looks at his hand in full pro-wrestling promo style and sort of moves his out of the way, then out of nowhere throws this weird kind of elbow uppercut and hits my mate in the face. Everyone jumps in, and suddenly I find myself on the opposite side of a big scramble to Paul Daley and a load of huge guys in tapout t-shirts.

 

My mate quickly disappears and gets kicked out, following which I find myself playing a sort of peacekeeper between him and the bouncers (one of whom said he was a friend of Daley) by being the guy who actually knew who he was and that he hadn't himself done anything wrong. I think Daley actually recognised me from earlier in the night as well as he was trying to tell his mate that we were alright or something like that. Not surprising as most people there had no idea who he was, which was emphasised by the fact that the England cricket team were there who everyone naturally knows and loves. Not sure how he felt about that xD

[brashleyholland]

Not surprising as most people there had no idea who he was, which was emphasised by the fact that the England cricket team were there who everyone naturally knows and loves. Not sure how he felt about that xD

 

I wouldn't be able to pick the England cricket team out of a line up even if they were all wearing pads and helmets :-p

 

Your story doesn't surprise me one bit...I'm friends with a couple of Paul's friends...lets just say that your mate wouldn't be the first guy they'd started on for no reason. Was his Mrs there? She is seriously fit :-p

[brashleyholland]

Ooooh, but that reminds me of a really good MMA anecdote! I wont tell you the names of the two guys involved until very end, because I think it makes the story a little more surprising.

 

Basically there are two very famous MMA fighters and a good friend/business partner in a bar. This is going back some years now, before both were famous. Anyway, drink is flowing, fun is being had and one of the guys (who is married, btw) picks up this chick. The story differs slightly here from the version told by one of the fighters and the version told by their friend, but they basically either left, or were asked to leave the establishment. The chick that had been picked up apparently had some history with one of the bouncers.

 

Anyway, they're outside, and a little drunk. The two fighters get into a little horseplay, grappling around, when the bigger one shoved the smaller one into a car. This caused the bouncers to come over and start shouting at the two goons who were damaging their patron's cars. Fair enough.

 

Anyway, one of the doormen grabs a baseball bat, obviously sensing that the two guys while drunk, obviously mean business as they weren't deterred by five doormen shouting at them. The two fighters square up to the bunch, while the friend gets the girl out of there.

 

After a bit of increasingly unfriendly banter, the smaller fighter basically tells the guy with the bat that he's gonna insert it into an orifice that isn't normally intended for baseball bat storage, despite what is suggested in those European import DVD's you've seen, you dirty heathens.

 

By this point, the friend who'd taken the girl to safety was back, with another friend who had come out of the bar...so now it's 5 on 4. Suddenly, the bigger fighter lunges at bat man, who poops his pants and runs back into the bar, with the fighter chasing him.

 

The smaller fighter destroys two of the four who remained, while the friends fight the other two. The scuffle was pretty much done in 90 seconds, but the smaller fighter wasn't done. The bouncers had scattered, but he chased one of them up the street, smashing him up, letting him run for a little while, then knocking him around again. There was blood everywhere, and the fighter had continued this for a whole block, leaving a trail of the red stuff up the street.

 

The friend and the girl gave chase to get Dan off the guy as police had been called. The trio ran back to the bar to get the bigger fighter out, to find that he had destroyed the entire bar, mostly by picking up the semi-concious bouncer he had chased in and throwing him into tables and across the bar.

 

The four of them (the other friend had disappeared) ran out and were chased by the cops. They had to half carry, half drag the girl (who had fled with them in panic) and literally throw her over chain link fences and brick walls as they tried to avoid the cops. The girl ended up cut and bruised from all this, and her dress was ruined. She was, obviously, irate. They finally got to their car and dropped her home. No action for the naughty fighter.

 

Any guesses then? Chris Leben? Junie Browning? Tank Abbott? The Brother's Overeem? Scroll over for the answer...

 

Try Dan Henderson and Randy Couture :-p The friend was a guy called Aaron who works at Clinch Gear, and has been a friend to both of them for 20+ years. He told me this personally a couple of years after he'd posted it on Sherdog, back when Sherdog had cool people posting there. Hendo talked about it on a radio show too one time.

 

Bonkers.

[brashleyholland]

So as it's all coming out now, I might as well spill some of the beans I have on the Overeem firing situation.

 

Where to begin...

 

Golden Glory are promoting shows in Europe called 'Ultimate Glory'. There's talk of It's Showtime, a Dutch kickboxing/MMA promotion doing shows in the US next year, with GG as a co-promoter. The UFC does not like this, as it's essentially someone with good TV connections (with Showtime/HDNet) going after their market share. This was the start of the bad blood.

 

The way fighters are hired in the US greatly differs from the way they're hired in Japan and Europe. In the US, promoters do their deals with individual fighters through their agents. In Japan, 'teams' like Golden Glory take their fighters to a promoter and shop them as a package deal. Promoters then pay the team, camp, gym whatever you want to call it. Take the K-1 WGP last year; they paid (or didn't pay, lol) GG a lump sum, not Overeem, Schilt, Saki, Ghita etc individually.

 

Golden Glory negotiated in this way with Strikeforce. This is why all of a sudden there were a bunch of GG fighters in the UFC/Strikeforce one after the other. Jon Einemo wasn't brought in to the UFC off a 4 year lay-off just because, y'get me?

 

Anyway, Zuffa was not happy about this...they do business their way, or they don't do business. Unfortunately there were already contracts that has to be fulfilled, so they had to work with them. When attempting re-negotiations, GG were insisting that the UFC/Strikeforce pay them directly. GG's contracts also stipulate that the promoter pays for travel and hotel expenses for the GG management teams. Again, common in Japan, unheard of in the US. Ed Soares buys his own flight and room. Zuffa were really not happy about this.

 

Reem did not have enough fights on his deal to finish the GP. He refused to re-sign, as Zuffa's new deal would have been with him, not GG, and would have been an exclusive deal. He stands to make over half a million dollars if he wins the proposed K-1 WGP this year, so it makes no sense to sign a new deal on terms that would preclude that. Also from GG's point of view, they are owed a LOT of money by K-1 right now. Japan being Japan, the feeling is that if they continue to work with K-1, they promotion will look to get some or all of that money too them. If not, tough luck. GG owes fighters, so they obviously can't risk passing that up, and K-1 want Overeem to defend his title. So again, GG would stand to lose a lot were Overeem exclusive to the UFC.

 

GG basically threw their toys out of the pram and would not play the game with Zuffa on AA's contract. Zuffa told them that because they turned down a fight outright, they can cut Overeem, and they did. GG feels that this is wrong.

 

When a UFC fighter claims to be injured, they are flown out to see the UFC's independent doctor to confirm their injury. Reem hadn't done this when he was cut, which is why GG released that emergency episode of The Reem documentary showing AA getting treated for multiple injuries. They feel there is a good chance this will go to court, as AA's contract does not allow him to be cut if he turns down a fight due to injury.

 

Einemo, Valentijn and Marloes are basically innocent victims in all this (although Val wouldn't have lasted long anyway). The word in the GG camp right now is that Sergei Kharitonov will be cut if he fights at the United Glory show later this year.

 

Yes folks, there is a very real chance that the HWGP, which started off with Fedor, Werdum, Bigfoot, Barnett, Overeem, Arlovski, Rogers and Kharitonov could end up with a Cormier vs Griggs final :-D I think they'd probably just scrap it though.

 

Reem will fight on the United Glory card, then (presuming it goes down) enter the K-1 WGP and fight on New Years in Japan, possibly against Fedor. OneFC is looking to put on Marloes Coenen vs Cris Cyborg 2 later this year.

 

I think that's about all I know...feel free to pester me for anything else though and I'll see if it jogs my memory.

[ampulator]

There's a good explanation, but aren't there are several issues involved? It seems Zuffa could have been a little more patient and handled this a lot more discreetly, if what you say is correct.

[brashleyholland]

There's a good explanation, but aren't there are several issues involved?

 

Erm, yes...I listed several. Not sure what you mean...

 

It seems Zuffa could have been a little more patient and handled this a lot more discreetly, if what you say is correct.

 

In fairness, both parties could have handled it more discreetly and professionally.

 

At the end of the day though, it's GG that will lose out in the long run. Zuffa wont make any more or less money this year or any other year just because Overeem and co are gone. They did this 100% on purpose, to send two messages.

 

- Don't try and promote rival MMA shows.

 

- Don't every try and hardball us with contracts.

 

I'd say mission accomplished.