The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[ampulator]

My favourite Marc Goddard moment: Listening to him describe in great detail what he'd have done to Joe Rogan if he tried to pull a Mazagatti on him.

What? When did this happen? I would have loved to see this!

As much I like Rogan personally, I think he gets it "wrong" on a lot of things. For one thing, his insistent on LEG KICKS FTW when a fighter is against someone that's good at TDs or the clinch is annoying.

[Fantabulous]

Random IQ/drug tests for the six headline fighters at UFC 146. Predict the Richter Scale rating of Dana's rage if one of them flunks. Not that I expect any of them to, but I almost want it to happen just for the fireworks. And on the outside chance someone fails, who gets the call to fill which potential slots? If Siva fails, I'd like to see Mark Hunt get the slot against Nelson.

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Fantabulous" data-cite="Fantabulous" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Random IQ/drug tests for the six headline fighters at UFC 146. Predict the Richter Scale rating of Dana's rage if one of them flunks. Not that I expect any of them to, but I almost want it to happen just for the fireworks. And on the outside chance someone fails, who gets the call to fill which potential slots? If Siva fails, I'd like to see Mark Hunt get the slot against Nelson.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It's not an IQ test if it's sprung on them at random <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> I love stuff like this; the idea of Keith Kizer popping up at random promo events and making guys pee in a cup without the chance to mask, cycle off or grab a prosthetic penis attached to a bag of their mate's clean pee (seriously - a dude once got caught by using the wrong colour...erm... implement). It's the way drug testing should be done.</p>

[Fantabulous]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It's not an IQ test if it's sprung on them at random <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /><p> </p><p> I love stuff like this; the idea of Keith Kizer popping up at random promo events and making guys pee in a cup without the chance to mask, cycle off or grab a prosthetic penis attached to a bag of their mate's clean pee (seriously - a dude once got caught by using the wrong colour...erm... implement). It's the way drug testing should be done.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Even if this was a completely random test they didn't know about in advance, I would think that any of the guys on something would already be wary of such testing, and you'd expect them to have the nous to figure that if all of the top fighters are going to be in one place, the odds favour a surprise test being called at such an event because it makes sense logistically to do so, and would take suitable precautions to avoid failing. Like I said, I don't expect anyone to fail, but anyone does only has themselves to blame because even if this test was a total surprise, common sense should have told them to take precautions.</p>

[damonster]

why an IQ test?

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Fantabulous" data-cite="Fantabulous" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Even if this was a completely random test they didn't know about in advance, I would think that any of the guys on something would already be wary of such testing, and you'd expect them to have the nous to figure that if all of the top fighters are going to be in one place, the odds favour a surprise test being called at such an event because it makes sense logistically to do so, and would take suitable precautions to avoid failing. Like I said, I don't expect anyone to fail, but anyone does only has themselves to blame because even if this test was a total surprise, common sense should have told them to take precautions.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I see what you mean...but there's nothing really to be wary off, as this has never happened before. This was a total surprise to everyone...these media days happen before every event and never has anyone been pulled for testing. Random testing was approved in Nevada a few years ago, but hasn't been conducted in recent financial years because the SAC budget wasn't sufficient. It was brought back in on the 1st of July 2011, and to my knowledge there hasn't been a single case of 'ambush' testing at any gathering of fighters. Random tests are normally done over the phone: you get a call and have 48 hrs to provide a sample.</p><p> </p><p> On the other hand you could be right: Overeem basically showed everyone the blueprint for getting around regular random testing last year. The 'my it's my agent's fault' thing seemed to work pretty well, and the commission never actually bothered to verify the things he said before passing judgement. It's possible that fighters at that level (who all have agents/handlers/managers/whatever) feel they can evade regular random testing, and are becoming canny about 'gatherings' like this one. </p><p> </p><p> The only thing I'd say against that is that if guys are using to recover faster in training, then this is the time they'd need to be on the gear. It's unlikely that they'd be able to go back on now, get any benefit and get off again a couple of weeks before the fight.</p>

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="damonster" data-cite="damonster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>why an IQ test?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> When states don't do random testing, fighters know when they will be tested. You get tested when you apply for a licence or a renewal, you get tested if you're in a main event or title fight, there's a reasonable chance you get tested if you fight on a big card anyway. You have to give a sample before and after you fight, so you know an exact date that your pee has to be clean by. </p><p> </p><p> Every human body is different, but if you have the money you can get a lab to figure out to with a day or two when you will have successfully flushed, masked or cycled off whatever's in your body. Even if you're taking a stab in the dark, you can come off with a week or so to spare before the fight to be sure. </p><p> </p><p> Because of this, and because random testing is a rarity, you pretty much have to be a complete idiot to get caught. In MMA, just like in all walks of life, there are idiots, and they get caught. "My buddy came off the same time as me and he pee'd clean"...that's because your buddy is a different person, with a different metabolism, genius. </p><p> </p><p> So that's where the saying comes from...passing a scheduled pee test is essentially passing an IQ test, because you'd have to have a low IQ to fail one <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Blackman]

The sport should look to other sports for active ways to combat this non-so-recent phenomenon. Still, it remains hard, for as long as the anti-doping industry grows, so does the masking-doping industry

[Target Practice]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1Zo0CwwJ9c

 

There's the link to ONE FC's most recent event, War of The Lions. The whole thing. I'm about an hour in, and it's been entertaining, if not the best quality so far. But still, free MMA action, folks!

[ProphetX]

yeah I watched the whole thing the other day. Some of those fights were pretty damned good

[Fantabulous]

Overeem flunked his test. Could still theoretically fight, though.

[brashleyholland]

Overeem flunked his test. Could still theoretically fight, though.

 

I think there's more chance of me facing JDS for the title than Overeem at this point. I'd have fewer problems getting a licence, as least :-p

 

Right then, 'Mark Hunt for the title shot' Twitter campaign anyone? #HuntJDS146

[Guest codey]

I'm not going to say I knew it, but I will say I'm not surprised whatsoever.

[RedsRule]

I think there's more chance of me facing JDS for the title than Overeem at this point. I'd have fewer problems getting a licence, as least :-p

 

Right then, 'Mark Hunt for the title shot' Twitter campaign anyone? #HuntJDS146

 

As awesome as that fight would be, he doesn't deserve it yet lol :/

Frank Mir for concussion #JDSMIR146

[bigtplaystew]

Brock never popped hot. Just sayin.

[brashleyholland]

Brock never popped hot. Just sayin.

 

He never got a random test though. Trust me, there are a LOT of guys with fights booked in Nevada praying they don't get tested right now. Honestly I'm surprised that only one dude failed the random tests.

[bigtplaystew]

He never got a random test though. Trust me, there are a LOT of guys with fights booked in Nevada praying they don't get tested right now. Honestly I'm surprised that only one dude failed the random tests.

 

But one guy did fail the test. Just one. And it's not like it's the first surprise drug test in the history of sports.

 

 

Anyway, I think Mir should get the shot. Reem screwed it up. Mir's got arguably a BETTER level-of-opponent over his last several fights. He's willing to step up and take the fight on short notice. They have no other main event planned for that show.

 

And then the real issue: Who else do you give a title shot to?

[brashleyholland]

But one guy did fail the test. Just one. And it's not like it's the first surprise drug test in the history of sports.

 

1st surprise one in MMA, I believe. Not that that makes any difference...nobody *should* fail, in a perfect world. But we live in a world where the accepted number of top-shelf guys on juice is somewhere between "A large majority" and "Nearly all", hence my surprise that only one guy pee'd hot.

 

Also, just because only one of those guys got caught, doesn't mean that only one of them was juicing. Which is why we need random blood tests.

 

And then the real issue: Who else do you give a title shot to?

 

Nobody - Mir gets it 100%. My guess is that Mir gets slotted into the main event (very wise of his manager/PR guy to put a press release out stating that he'll take the fight if offered) and Werdum will be moved in to fight Cain.

[bigtplaystew]

We agree on that, BH. Reem is far from the only one juicing. Frankly, I can care less about banned substances in sports but I've gone down this road before and it didn't go well for me haha.

 

Just pointing out that Brock's been accused of roid usage ad nauseum. The guy who retired was caught. Brock wasn't caught. Ever. Not really an argument or anything, just an observation and a statement really.

 

Reem's still a great fighter and I hope he didn't screw up his UFC career too much because I'd still like to see him fight the best heavyweights in the world.

[CoutureLegend]

There's several MMA fighters who have went on record to say over 50% of fighters are using steroids.. Sadly they may not be wrong!

 

Random testing is a must for the future of the sport.

[Fantabulous]

For random testing to work, at least as well as any testing can when you're up against fighters educated on the ways round tests, it has to be truly random with absolutely no forewarning that it's coming. No testing at press events like happened with past one because it's a little obvious to spring a test when a bunch of guys are coming together. I'm talking surprise tests at 5-6am if you have to, the kind where you're minimizing the risk that someone gets a call warning them ahead of time. When it comes to the people collecting the sample, don't tell them anything until the last possible minute. Random testing isn't going to catch everybody, or maybe even more than half of users if that, but you increase the odds if you're prepared to put the effort into making it as unexpected as possible. Otherwise it's just lip service, but I'm cynical enough to think that's all any testing is with most commissions.

 

Also, Mir looks likely to get the title shot but there is a groundswell of support for Mark Hunt to get the shot, which is the move I would make; it's a Cinderella story being handed to you on a plate.

[ampulator]

For random testing to work, at least as well as any testing can when you're up against fighters educated on the ways round tests, it has to be truly random with absolutely no forewarning that it's coming. No testing at press events like happened with past one because it's a little obvious to spring a test when a bunch of guys are coming together. I'm talking surprise tests at 5-6am if you have to, the kind where you're minimizing the risk that someone gets a call warning them ahead of time. When it comes to the people collecting the sample, don't tell them anything until the last possible minute. Random testing isn't going to catch everybody, or maybe even more than half of users if that, but you increase the odds if you're prepared to put the effort into making it as unexpected as possible. Otherwise it's just lip service, but I'm cynical enough to think that's all any testing is with most commissions.

 

Also, Mir looks likely to get the title shot but there is a groundswell of support for Mark Hunt to get the shot, which is the move I would make; it's a Cinderella story being handed to you on a plate.

Not to mention, that would be an awesome fight, unless Dos Santos tries to do the ground game most of the fight.

[The Shape]

Hendo looking likely. Let's see how much punishment he can actually take.

[brashleyholland]

So Mir vs Velasquez is on, which means that Hunt, Fedor or Hendo are getting a crack at the belt.

 

My money is on Hendo at this point.

 

Also, I saw one of the most awesome spectacles of my life at UCMMA this evening. Ppl that follow me on twitter may already know, but for those who don't, two words:

 

Ultimate Ball.

[Target Practice]

Hendo would be an interesting one - I think it'll depend on how good a chance Henderson thinks he's got against Jon Jones - obviously he's going to be at a size disadvantage against Dos Santos (not that it's stopped him before, mind), and barring landing one of those monstrous overhand shots, I don't see too many ways he can beat JDS - I imagine if he's offered the shot against JDS it'll have the clause that a loss won't hurt his standing in other divisions.

However, I wouldn't put it past Dan to pass on the shot and wait for his shot against Bones - he's been very selective over his matchmaking recently.

 

Personally, I'm game for giving Mark Hunt a shot. It's a potential Cinderella story, the guy is popular, so it's unlikely to hurt PPV sales any further (when you lose a fight like Overeem/Dos Santos, you're obviously going to lose sales, but I don't think Hunt will make things any worse) and there's a pretty good chance of a barn-burner of a fight.