The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[damonster]

How did chael win?

[ampulator]

How did chael win?

The real question why two judges gave it 29-28. Clearly it was 30-27 for Chael.

[alphadraighon]

I'm sure I'll catch hell for it, but I'm calling bull on the Sonnen vs Bisping decision. Not saying for sure that the Count had that fight won, but it certainly wasn't a unanimous decision for Sonnen either.

 

It was a close fight, no doubt, but personally I had that scored for the Count. Granted, I tend to put less weight into take downs, especially when they aren't effective (i.e. the person who got taken down gets back up almost instantly.)

 

That being said, I'd love to see MORE from both fighters. I wasn't disappointed with the fight, but I wasn't impressed either.

 

On Rashad vs Phil...I honestly didn't expect it do go the distance. Not surprised by the decision in that one, but I expected to see a finish early on.

[BHK1978]

I'm sure I'll catch hell for it, but I'm calling bull on the Sonnen vs Bisping decision. Not saying for sure that the Count had that fight won, but it certainly wasn't a unanimous decision for Sonnen either.

 

It was a close fight, no doubt, but personally I had that scored for the Count. Granted, I tend to put less weight into take downs, especially when they aren't effective (i.e. the person who got taken down gets back up almost instantly.)

 

That being said, I'd love to see MORE from both fighters. I wasn't disappointed with the fight, but I wasn't impressed either.

 

On Rashad vs Phil...I honestly didn't expect it do go the distance. Not surprised by the decision in that one, but I expected to see a finish early on.

 

I agree, to me Bisping did more of what he wanted to do in the fight.

 

I thought the whole main card was kind of blah. I actually enjoyed the pre-show fights better on the whole.

[bigtplaystew]

I don't know what the hell Maia/Wiedman was about. What a mess. And Sonnen Bisping was a weird fight too. I guess we can chalk it up to the fact that the opponents were scrambled up at the last minute.

 

Rashad dominated Davis. The fight was never really all that close. But in reality, it was more Davis' poor performance than Rashad's gret performance. Davis didn't look like himself and didnt really have an answer for anything that was happening to him. I don't know. Maybe it's the "network TV jitters" or something. But yea, all three fights tonight were so weird. They werent representative of any of the fighters' styles.

[Nathers7]

The real question why two judges gave it 29-28. Clearly it was 30-27 for Chael.

 

Bisping took the second round comfortably imo. First round was debatable.

[LoNdOn]

Personally scored the fight 29-28 Bisping but I could see scoring it 29-28 for Sonnen. I think Bisping won the first round clearer than the he did the second. There was a two punch combination that Bisping connected with in the first that jarred Chael and I thought that Bisping would jump on him but he didn't.

 

Weidman and Maia was crap. I think that had Maia faced Bisping he would have got absolutely dominated if he fought like that. If they do book that match I think Bisping will be made the favourite after last night.

[Daffanka]

I think the fight exists in the same negative zone as Machida/Shogun 1; one guy's supposed to get stomped so all his offense is overvalued.

[Fantabulous]

Sonnen/Bisping was close enough that it's ridiculous to claim either fighter 'clearly' won the fight. The first two rounds could have gone either way with the third round being clearly won by Sonnen. Any score except 30-27 for Bisping would have been perfectly fine. Also want to point out that Sonnen outstruck Bisping in the first round.

[LoNdOn]

Sonnen/Bisping was close enough that it's ridiculous to claim either fighter 'clearly' won the fight. The first two rounds could have gone either way with the third round being clearly won by Sonnen. Any score except 30-27 for Bisping would have been perfectly fine. Also want to point out that Sonnen outstruck Bisping in the first round.

 

I gave Bisping the first round because of the damage his blows looked to have done to Chael (I think I saw Chael hit Bisping with one really nice overhand right but for the most part, Bisping's punches looked ther crisper and heavier of the two) Had Sonnen kept Bisping down for any appreciable length of time I would have given him the first round or called it a 10-10. As I said though, I can see the case for giving the fight to Chael so I won't cry foul.

 

By the way, how crap are the people (and I use that term loosely) that frequent the Sherdog forums. Makes me sad to call myself an MMA fan when I see the utter vile and tripe that is spewed accross their boards.

[Fantabulous]

By the way, how crap are the people (and I use that term loosely) that frequent the Sherdog forums. Makes me sad to call myself an MMA fan when I see the utter vile and tripe that is spewed accross their boards.

Don't mock them; it's sad when a baby doesn't get enough oxygen as a fetus

[LoNdOn]

Don't mock them; it's sad when a baby doesn't get enough oxygen as a fetus

 

Haha.

 

It is unbelievable. I think I posted one or two comments in their boards a few years ago, got called a "spastic nuthugger" or something to that effect and realised that I wasn't a fan of trying to teach salmon to walk.

[TheKenwyne]

Sonnen needs to sort it out. His fight with Bisping was 29-28 to Sonnen on my card, (Bisping clearly took the second round, and I can see the argument for him taking the first too) but the fact that our Olympic Alternate wrestler got wall-n-stall'd for an entire round by someone with no background in grappling is mind-boggling. If Bisping can control him in the Greco clinch imagine what Munoz would've done to him - Bisping just outworked and out-pumelled him, and for someone who bases his game around wrestling that's unforgiving. Hell, Bisping even took him down in the Third! I'm just saying that Munoz must be really irritated he missed that fight now.

[ampulator]

Sonnen needs to sort it out. His fight with Bisping was 29-28 to Sonnen on my card, (Bisping clearly took the second round, and I can see the argument for him taking the first too) but the fact that our Olympic Alternate wrestler got wall-n-stall'd for an entire round by someone with no background in grappling is mind-boggling. If Bisping can control him in the Greco clinch imagine what Munoz would've done to him - Bisping just outworked and out-pumelled him, and for someone who bases his game around wrestling that's unforgiving. Hell, Bisping even took him down in the Third! I'm just saying that Munoz must be really irritated he missed that fight now.

Bisping works very hard on his defensive wrestling. That's why he's so hard to take down, and when taken down, hard to keep down. The same goes for his clinch-he trains his ass off in that area as well.

[TheKenwyne]

Bisping works very hard on his defensive wrestling. That's why he's so hard to take down, and when taken down, hard to keep down. The same goes for his clinch-he trains his ass off in that area as well.

 

Doesn't change the fact that he very nearly beat Sonnen in Sonnen's self professed area, an area that Sonnen has trained in most of his life. Must try harder Chaely-boy, or maybe think about what do in the fight rather than which pro wrestler to ape in your post fight interview.

[Blackman]

Sonnen's mind was probably more oriented towards the post-fight mic time then to dominating the fight. That said, his post-match promo was easily pro wrestling-worthy.

[ampulator]

Doesn't change the fact that he very nearly beat Sonnen in Sonnen's self professed area, an area that Sonnen has trained in most of his life. Must try harder Chaely-boy, or maybe think about what do in the fight rather than which pro wrestler to ape in your post fight interview.

Dude, whoever said it changed anything? I was providing an explanation. herp derp....

 

But in any case, there's many styles and aspect of wrestling. In MMA you are forced to be well-rounded in all aspects of wrestling and ground grappling. It's very possible that Chael Sonnen was good on certain aspect but terrible on other aspects.

 

Look at Brock Lesnar or Phil Davis. Brock Lesnar had a great double. Davis was a great defensive and counter wrestler. But both guys had holes in their WRESTLING that become easier exploit due to the nature of MMA. Davis didn't have the offensive wrestling to back up his defensive game. He couldn't set up his take-downs and shot from way far out.

 

But back on Bisping, I think the charge of pillowfist is now unwarranted, but it's not exactly he has the greatest amount of power either. He has decent technique and hand speed, though. He doesn't really use kicks, because he knows that will only up the chances for a take-down. He's never really able to open because of the wrestling aspect of MMA. It is what it is.

[bigtplaystew]

http://blog.fightmetric.com/2012/01/sonnen-vs-bisping-official-ufc.html

 

Fightmetric is far from perfect, but it puts numbers to the abstract side of MMA. And the numbers favor Sonnen in just about every area. It was an EXTREMELY close fight. I wouldn't be screaming if Bisping got the decision. But in this case, I do think the judges made the right call in the end (well 30-27 is a little off)

 

I was surprised to see Sonnen landed more strikes. I know people often will say "the other guy landed bigger shots though" in these situations, but that really isn't supposed to matter in a scoring situation. Who is hitting who harder isn't one of the judged criteria. At least not to my knowledge. So in this case, I think the judges made the right call.

[ampulator]

http://blog.fightmetric.com/2012/01/sonnen-vs-bisping-official-ufc.html

 

Fightmetric is far from perfect, but it puts numbers to the abstract side of MMA. And the numbers favor Sonnen in just about every area. It was an EXTREMELY close fight. I wouldn't be screaming if Bisping got the decision. But in this case, I do think the judges made the right call in the end (well 30-27 is a little off)

 

I was surprised to see Sonnen landed more strikes. I know people often will say "the other guy landed bigger shots though" in these situations, but that really isn't supposed to matter in a scoring situation. Who is hitting who harder isn't one of the judged criteria. At least not to my knowledge. So in this case, I think the judges made the right call.

Bisping landed more significant strikes, while Sonnen landed more strikes.

 

I'm not shocked at that, though. Sonnen throws his hands around a lot. He's not going to make it every time, and it's the most powerful or even the fastest shots, but he throws a lot of them.

[bigtplaystew]

Well according to fightmetric Sonnen actually landed more significant strikes statistically speaking. But I know what you are saying.

 

Did Bisping land better, cleaner, harder shots? Seemed so to me. But again, punching power isn't supposed to be a judged criteria (at least I don't believe it is, I've never seen or heard it explained as one) so I mean generally speaking you gotta go with overall offensive output.

 

The fight was so close. Even if you're going purely by numbers (which you can't always do in MMA) it was still a super close fight. I just think we as fans are quick to jump down judges' throats when they blow a close fight. In this case, they got the call right.

[ampulator]

Well according to fightmetric Sonnen actually landed more significant strikes statistically speaking. But I know what you are saying.

 

Did Bisping land better, cleaner, harder shots? Seemed so to me. But again, punching power isn't supposed to be a judged criteria (at least I don't believe it is, I've never seen or heard it explained as one) so I mean generally speaking you gotta go with overall offensive output.

 

The fight was so close. Even if you're going purely by numbers (which you can't always do in MMA) it was still a super close fight. I just think we as fans are quick to jump down judges' throats when they blow a close fight. In this case, they got the call right.

I thought it was 30-27 Sonnen, but a close 30-27. If this was a half point system, it would have been more like 10-9.5 each round than 10-9. The thing is, you really can't tell how hard a punch is. It depends not just on the power, but also on the positioning and the other worker. Heck, Sonnen admitted he was hurt in the FIRST round, but it's hard to tell when. He just ate it and pretended nothing happened. It fooled Bisping and everyone else.

 

However, the thing YOU can tell, is how many punches are thrown and how many punches land. It's how Cruz, the Diaz brothers win fights. They can be a lot of punches, and even without a lot of power, it "looks" like it's something.

[The Shape]

Anyone think with Dana saying he thought Bisping won that he could be just one big win away from a title shot still? For instance against Munoz.

[Fantabulous]

Bisping isn't a power puncher but he generally throws good punches that land. They're not the kind that knock people out but they do damage over the course of the fight. With Sonnen-Bisping, the first two rounds were close enough that either guy could have won them, and saying either of those rounds was 'clearly taken' is ridiculous, and it likely came down to the judges seeing Sonnen's better strike rate combined with his wrestling. If Bisping had landed visibly bigger shots, ones that knocked Sonnen down or rocked him, it's possible he could have gotten the nod in those close rounds. Any score outside of 30-27 for Bisping would have been perfectly acceptable.

 

Munoz is apparently going to be ready to fight again by the summer, so I would put Bisping-Munoz together for the next title shot at 185lbs. Silva is probably going to beat Sonnen, assuming age and injuries haven't taken their toll by fight time, but if Sonnen does upset Silva, and gets out of Brazil in one piece, Sonnen-Bisping II for the title might be a big enough fight to do the fabled stadium show in England.

[Blackman]

The thing that cracked me up most about the entire card was the pre-event discussion/hype segment with Bones and Couture. Bones was horrible on the mic and made it abundantly clear that everything they say is totally 'worked' which is quite a turnoff. Hilarious, yet a little sad.

[ampulator]

Bisping isn't a power puncher but he generally throws good punches that land. They're not the kind that knock people out but they do damage over the course of the fight. With Sonnen-Bisping, the first two rounds were close enough that either guy could have won them, and saying either of those rounds was 'clearly taken' is ridiculous, and it likely came down to the judges seeing Sonnen's better strike rate combined with his wrestling. If Bisping had landed visibly bigger shots, ones that knocked Sonnen down or rocked him, it's possible he could have gotten the nod in those close rounds. Any score outside of 30-27 for Bisping would have been perfectly acceptable.

 

Munoz is apparently going to be ready to fight again by the summer, so I would put Bisping-Munoz together for the next title shot at 185lbs. Silva is probably going to beat Sonnen, assuming age and injuries haven't taken their toll by fight time, but if Sonnen does upset Silva, and gets out of Brazil in one piece, Sonnen-Bisping II for the title might be a big enough fight to do the fabled stadium show in England.

Bisping and Munoz are both stylistic nightmares for each other. On one hand, you have a heavy handed wrestler. On the other hand, you have a striker that lands a lot of his punches. This is not to mention neither guy's chin is that great, though it's not bad as people say it is (for both of them).