The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[brashleyholland]

<p>A pal of mine has a podcast called<strong> Interesting People Talking Wrestling</strong>. As is probably reasonably clear by the title of the podcast, the show features interesting people (from many walks of life) talking about wresting. </p><p> </p><p>

I popped up for episode 9 of the podcast. I'm an MMA guy, so this episode consisted of chat about the many MMA/Wrestling connections/crossovers over the years. </p><p> </p><p>

You can check it out here: <a href="http://martinhines.podbean.com/2013/06/07/9-brad-wharton-interesting-people-talking-wrestling/" rel="external nofollow">http://martinhines.podbean.com/2013/06/07/9-brad-wharton-interesting-people-talking-wrestling/</a></p><p> </p><p>

There are 10 episodes online so far, each featuring an 'interesting' person from some walk of like discussing their love for wrestling. Episode 10, for example, features a dude who is a huge wrestling fan who has been blind from 3 years old. <a href="http://martinhines.podbean.com/2013/06/20/10-des-delgadillo-interesting-people-talking-wrestling/" rel="external nofollow">http://martinhines.podbean.com/2013/06/20/10-des-delgadillo-interesting-people-talking-wrestling/</a></p>

[Blackman]

Lots of wonderful stories I've heard through the course of time related to wrestling. Suspicious how they all floated to the surface these past few months with mere weeks to go to the Olympic vote. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

[Active Jerichoholic]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So Eddie Alvarez and Bellator came to an agreement. Eddie will rematch Chandler (Michael, not Bing) on the undercard of the Ortiz-Rampage PPV. <p> </p><p> The deal means that Eddie won't have to sit out potentially another year or two, wasting his prime and killing his value. On the downside, it's now highly unlikely that we'll ever see him in the UFC. </p><p> </p><p> It also doesn't bode well for seeing any Bellator champions make the jump to the UFC when their contracts come up. The UFC would have to make obscenely over valued offers that Bellator would be unwilling or unable to match. </p><p> </p><p> Bellator have invoked their 'title fight rematch clause' to make the Alvarez/Chandler rematch happen. Essentially it means they can bypass their 'rule' of a fighter having to win a tourney to get a title shot. They also came up with a ridiculously convoluted point system yesterday for keeping champions active if a tourney winner can't fight due to injury. </p><p> </p><p> Both the points system and the PPV were put together for Bellator to cover themselves in this and future legal cases.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This is great news to me, Eddie is a fantastically exciting fighter. Also, I appreciate the Friends reference. <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Blackman]

<p>Also: Bellator is finally focussing itself. It just dissolved the women's division, and for good measure. They were neglected anyway and weren't getting any younger. Plus: the promotion needs the slots for more contender fights.</p><p> </p><p>

Besides, the women are better off fighting in the low-level promotions, or Invicta, which seems to be a breeding ground now for the division in the UFC.</p>

[ProphetX]

<p>I'm happy at how the Bellator/Alvarez situation played out for the most part. No one should be offering hypothetical money and expecting that to outweight what is actually spelled out.</p><p> </p><p>

Bellator really should have tried to put together a PPV earlier though. That way it would have helped deflect a lot of the contract dispute up front. But in the end both sides (except the UFC) win out.</p><p>

People like Alvarez can expect to see that kind of verbiage in their contract, giving them more money come PPV time (and rightly so) and they can also expect better offers from UFC if they really want to move over to the big show. Which is one of the complaints supposedly of fighters currently on the UFC roster.</p><p> </p><p>

I think Eddie did the right thing standing up for himself and I think Bellator, given the circumstances, did the right thing to hold their ground. I'm still surprised UFC attempted to low ball Eddie though. I love Cung Le to death, he's my boy. But he earns something like 200k to 400k a fight and he's no where near the top of his division. Nor is he as storied a fighter as Wanderlei Silva or Hendo. Eddie would have been worth 100k coming into this IMO given the fact they knew they'd need to compete with another org for his services. And he's still a top ranked lightweight</p><p> </p><p>

But just my opinion</p>

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ProphetX" data-cite="ProphetX" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> Bellator really should have tried to put together a PPV earlier though. That way it would have helped deflect a lot of the contract dispute up front. But in the end both sides (except the UFC) win out.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> They got it done as quickly as was humanly possible, believe me. The issue is that it costs a lot of money to put on a PPV, and it's almost guaranteed to either lose money, or make such a pittance that it won't be worth the trouble of putting on. </p><p> </p><p> As I said earlier on, this was purely a move to deal with the contract dispute - if Bellator had gone to court and lost, it would have opened up the floodgates for guys under contract with them to get out very easily. It took a lot to convince Viacom that putting on a money pit PPV would be the lesser of two evils. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>People like Alvarez can expect to see that kind of verbiage in their contract, giving them more money come PPV time (and rightly so)</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> But here's the thing: Alvarez will likely not see a penny in PPV revenue from this fight. Here is the term from the UFC contract that Bellator matched. </p><p> </p><p> <strong>"A tiered share of pay-per-view revenue, starting at "$1 for each ‘buy' between 200,000 and 400,000 buys, $2 per buy between 400,000 and 600,000 buys, and $2.50 per buy over 600,000 buys."</strong></p><p><strong> </strong></p><p> </p><p> 200,000 buys for a Bellator PPV? They'll be incredibly lucky to get half of that, even with the UFC's recent decision to to counter program them. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm still surprised UFC attempted to low ball Eddie though. I love Cung Le to death, he's my boy. But he earns something like 200k to 400k a fight and he's no where near the top of his division. Nor is he as storied a fighter as Wanderlei Silva or Hendo. Eddie would have been worth 100k coming into this IMO given the fact they knew they'd need to compete with another org for his services. And he's still a top ranked lightweight</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The Le situation is an anomaly - he's not on a regular UFC contract. He's a special case for various reasons, mainly his popularity in certain markets that the UFC are trying to break into, and the fact that he'll pretty much sell out an arena in Cali. That's what they're paying for. </p><p> </p><p> They really weren't low balling Eddie with that deal. He was on a $250,000 signing bonus. These are paid in installments per fight on the deal. Lets assume it was a 5-fight deal - that's $50,000 off the bat. $140,000 if he wins his fight. Lets say the PPV does 500,000 buys. That's $600,000. So already, without any discretionary bonuses or awards, he's racked up $790,000. </p><p> </p><p> Lets say he loses and the PPV only does 200,000 buys. $320,000. </p><p> </p><p> Either way, it'd have been a massive pay rise.</p>

[brashleyholland]

<p>Well the UFC's debut on FS1 was about as good a night of fights as anyone could have hoped for. </p><p> </p><p>

Chael submitting Shogun was a legitimate shocker. I honestly can't see where Rua goes from here. Everyone wanted a Rampage rematch, which is obviously off the cards now. The Nogueira fight still makes sense, I guess. I think this has signaled the end of him as a legitimate title challenger though. He's knee's are supposedly completely shot now - I'd be surprised if we get more than a handful of fights out of him before he calls it a day, or disappears into obscurity.</p><p> </p><p>

Overeem once again threw a fight away out of complacency. When your chin isn't all that, and especially in the HW division, you can't just stand infront of a guy, no matter how much better you think you are or how badly you've hurt him. Silly sausage. He's going to be in a 'must-win' situation in every fight now. If he can string 3-4 wins together then he can get a title shot due to the nature of the division - but that's a big if. </p><p> </p><p>

Pickett, once again, looked tough as nails in defeat. McDonald is a legit talent, and I'm looking forward to his next title bid. Pickett is now the de-facto gatekeeper at 135. </p><p> </p><p>

My man McGregor looked sick as ever until his knee popped. The fact that he was able to switch it up completely and still boss the fight against a legit prospect in Hollway was very cool. </p><p> </p><p>

Matt Brown - Wow. Surely he has to get a contender now? </p><p> </p><p>

So many great fights. The UFC couldn't have asked for a better debut, IMO.</p>

[Adam Ryland]

Brad, given how much of a bust he's been thus far, is there any chance of them cutting Overeem do you think? I'm thinking in terms of how much his drawing power has been hurt vs. how much money he's on.

[damonster]

So UFC are going to Poland, German, Sweden, Ireland, England & Turkey next year. To go along with the sure things of a Canada, USA and Brazil event.

[Blackman]

It was indeed a good card. Why was the Sonnen win such a shocker? The guy was on a losing streak against top level competition and talks a lot of trash to get him into fights, but I actually saw him as the favorite going into that match. In fact, the guy is so damn full of himself that he's bound to be good: it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Sure, if the 'old' Shogun started off swinging we might've seen him go down, but that didn't happen (unfortunately). I don't see him winning against any champion at the moment, but I see him winning against the rest.

 

Why can't the Rampage rematch happen anymore (other than the fact that he's no longer with the ufc)? I don't really see Rampage racking up many more wins before he calls it quits too. Surely both can go out with a bang. People will still care about that fight, even if both guys are losing.

[damonster]

It was indeed a good card. Why was the Sonnen win such a shocker? The guy was on a losing streak against top level competition and talks a lot of trash to get him into fights, but I actually saw him as the favorite going into that match. In fact, the guy is so damn full of himself that he's bound to be good: it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Sure, if the 'old' Shogun started off swinging we might've seen him go down, but that didn't happen (unfortunately). I don't see him winning against any champion at the moment, but I see him winning against the rest.

 

I thought Sonnen was going to win, but by submission, thought there was no way for him to win by that.

 

Why can't the Rampage rematch happen anymore (other than the fact that he's no longer with the ufc)? I don't really see Rampage racking up many more wins before he calls it quits too. Surely both can go out with a bang. People will still care about that fight, even if both guys are losing.

 

Like you said, because Rampage isn't in the UFC, if Shogun gets the slip, maybe, if Shogun doesn't retire first.

[Blackman]

Apparently Sonnen applied to referee the next Silva fight. Gods, I can't help it, I just love the guy. Being an avid trashtalker myself in my past, one can only admire his skill at it. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Adam Ryland" data-cite="Adam Ryland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Brad, given how much of a bust he's been thus far, is there any chance of them cutting Overeem do you think? I'm thinking in terms of how much his drawing power has been hurt vs. how much money he's on.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> In a division where Dave Herman can rack up four losses and a drug bust before getting canned, I'd say we'll see Overeem at least once more :-D </p><p> </p><p> Seriously though, the fight with Browne was exactly what the UFC wanted for that show; two huge dudes wailing on each other and a spectacular KO to end it all. I think in that sense, Reem is value for money. Win or lose, it'll more likely than not be exciting and provide a great visual. I'm pretty sure his original big signing bonus has been paid out now, so it may be that they give him one more shot and re-evaluate from there. If he takes another loss, it'd be difficult to see him staying. If he wins, they'll probably be able to get him for a lot less money. </p><p> </p><p> It'll then be up to Overeem whether he fancies his chances on the kickboxing circuit again...the cast of characters out there now is a lot tougher than the WGP he went through a few years back though.</p>

[EddieFnG]

Not pictured next to CM Punk, Dana White.

[Blackman]

<p>I really like the setup of this season's Ultimate Fighter. Ronda and Miesha have such different characters. It's just funny to see them interact. It's almost like my two sisters as they have the same characters. Their birthdays are even close to them, which might be meaningful as someone once told me there's something to say about Zodiac signs as partial determinants of characters (though it's limited). </p><p> </p><p>

In my experience with similar characters, it seems to me Ronda can get quite driven if she wants something and crawls into her own world, which will affect her own perception and the perception of others. She's likely to interpret everything in a negative way, which you can see at the end where she thinks Miesha's smiles are 'smirky', which is obviously not the case. You had that at the very beginning of the season where she thought Miesha was there to 'replace' her (which would be against all reason). She often just searches negative experiences, like when she was waiting for the clock to hit 18pm so she could kick Miesha's team out. The way she puts on her gameface is admirable as it seems to indicate a tremendous amount of focus. That face was there throughout the entire episode. She's been criticised for using her looks, but everyone knows she just uses it to further her ambition and solidify her career. Characters like her seem distant emotionally, but ep. 2 showed that if she commits to something - and she strikes me as someone who commits to everything she does - she invests all her being into the task at hand. As a mental coach, she's said some pretty insightful things too. Lots of respect for her.</p><p> </p><p>

On the other hand Miesha kinda comes off as the girly girl. Not much to say about it as it's a classic stereotype. Her coaching style seems pretty generic: the basic drills and good advice that stems from experience. She obviously really enjoys the attention and all the benefits that come along with it. You can see she actually likes Ronda nowadays, though she's inherently different from her. They will never (ever) be friends but definitely respect each other. It might not seem that way from Ronda's perspective, but like I said she probably thinks Miesha hates her.</p><p> </p><p>

It's kind of a welcome change from the males that seldomly show emotion and are all business. Not that the women here are not all business but emotion is just something they radiate at all times.</p>

[Synticha]

Weird to see this thread so dead after such a good night of fights... So, what do people think bout the main event? I myself see the fight as a close one and it could have gone either way but I think that Gus still had a small edge here.

[bigtplaystew]

<p>Great fight last night! So close. I was pulling for Gustafsson I liked the toughness and heart that I saw. I still think Jones probably did edge him slightly. I think Gustafsson for sure won round 4, and probably won round 2. The other three rounds were so close but I still think Jones very slightly outpointed him in those rounds. I also wouldn't have cried "robbery!" had it gone the other way though. </p><p> </p><p>

What a great back and forth striking match. Stuffing takedowns, defending well. Gustafsson did a nice job at staying out of Jon's clinch, which I though would be the difference maker. Both dudes were hitting accurately and moving well. I mean by round 4 both guys were pretty gassed out so we started seeing the wild stuff creep in, but they kept it standing and went to war. Much respect for that and worth every penny of my PPV money. </p><p> </p><p>

I don't know if we see the rematch any time soon though. Glover should get the shot and Gustafsson should have to earn another one. Great fight, but he <em>did</em> lose.</p>

[wshred13]

I had Jones slightly edging it out, but wouldn't have been surprised at all if Gus got the nod. As far as TUF is concerned, that last episode was some of the most cringeworthy stuff I've seen in the series. Of course it usually has the douchey frat boy antics, but adding the flirting to it is too much for me.

[brashleyholland]

<p>I gave Jones rounds 2, 4 and 5. </p><p> </p><p>

The only round that definitively went either way was round five. Funnily that was the only round in which Gustafsson out-struck Jones!</p><p> </p><p>

The first three round were all close, and you could even argue the fourth either way. All in all it was a close fight, and I don't think either fighter could complain about the decision going to their opponent. </p><p> </p><p>

Did anyone see the incorrect stat summary going around facebook/forums? It showed that Gus had out-landed Jones by a fair bit. Loads of people jumped on it saying "The stats don't lie!" Then when it was revealed to be incorrect, the same folk were all "Stats don't tell the full story!". Ha! </p><p> </p><p>

You've got to take it all with a pinch of salt really. Most MMA fans I come across don't know how to apply the scoring criteria properly anyway. Same goes for a lot of media and fighters as it happens <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

Scoring/result aside, that was a hell of a fight. One of my favorite MMA fights of all time, I think.</p>

[Anderz]

<p>I was gonna start this by apologizing for coming in late on this but brash has only just posted as well (dont feel so bad for watching this late)</p><p> </p><p>

such a great main event - I had no idea what the judges were going to give the fight; for sure I thoght it would be a split decision.. I had it Gus/Jon/Gus/Jon/Jon I think.. the barrage at the end of 4 swung me it give it to Jones but honestly I couldnt call it..</p><p> </p><p>

such a fantastic main event.. hopefully Gus can pick up a couple of impressive wins and we can do this again next year..</p>

[Blackman]

<p>That was indeed a fantastic fight. I didn't really score it but was basically lightly in favor of Jones, probably because he was better near the end.</p><p> </p><p>

In other news, some fighter died because of a weight cut, which will probably rekindle the debate on cutting weight. I've always thought it's a bad measure that contributes nothing to the sport. Weigh'em the day before and again the day of the fight. The drive and skill for optimizing secondary variables can't determine fighting proficiency.</p>

[bigtplaystew]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Blackman" data-cite="Blackman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That was indeed a fantastic fight. I didn't really score it but was basically lightly in favor of Jones, probably because he was better near the end.<p> </p><p> In other news, some fighter died because of a weight cut, which will probably rekindle the debate on cutting weight. I've always thought it's a bad measure that contributes nothing to the sport. Weigh'em the day before and again the day of the fight. The drive and skill for optimizing secondary variables can't determine fighting proficiency.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yea it'll be interesting to hear the debates that follow in the coming days. The weight advantage is so important in MMA that I don't see a push to end huge weight cuts ever really taking shape. And I don't know that weighing in the day before and the day of would help. I think it would lead to even more dangerous and drastic measures, as probably 90% of the sport make close to blue collar wages and will take any advantage they can to get that win bonus.</p>

[Rickymex]

I believe the fighter was sweating out the last two pounds in the sauna alone. If someone else was there to make sure something like that didn't happen then it could hve been different.

[Blackman]

<p>Why's this thread not active anymore? <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/confused.png.d4a8e6b6eab0c67698b911fb041c0ed1.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

Kim is really pulling out all the stops to get the excitement back in his fights. In the end he just stumbled into Silva with his hands raised. What a crazy fight. Forget the other guy. Kim should be f'n Korean Zombie... <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Blackman]

<p>Wow, what an amazing night of fights. Rarely there has been a main card that was so exciting. KO much? <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

I didn't really get Hendo's first approach to contact with Belfort. Is that a valid technique? Was he faking a shot twice while ducking? Leaving his face all open? It seems there was no way he could've powered up his right using that step-in. But then again, I'm kind of a noob on striking. I'm assuming he isn't. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>