The C-Verse Re-render Project

[Guest codey]

slight change on the chin

 

http://img140.imagevenue.com/loc88/th_28804_JulietteKing_122_88lo.jpg

 

http://www.sportsgalore.net/wp-content/uploads/Chyna-The-9th-Wonder-of-the-World1.jpg

 

I'm telling you, if she looks like a real-life wrestler, you didn't do anything wrong.

[sebsplex]

Ho hum, I'm only just catching up with the direction this thread stuttered towards in recent days - inadvertantly kicked off by paulskln reeling off a list of my renders he wanted redone no less. Part of me wishes I'd dropped in here and posted earlier because maybe some of this debate could have been avoided, however this thread has carried an undertone with it for a while now, I think this discussion would have sparked off sooner or later anyway, regardless of who next requested or suggested once.

 

Firstly as much as I appreciate people defending my rendering honour, it's really not necessary for anyone else to get worked up on my behalf. I actually wasn't offended by anything paulskln posted, infact this may be surprise coming from me, but actually think a lot of the renders that were cut straight from the my GDS-Verse renders look rather awkward and out of place in the C-Verse. I only ever re-rendered the very first Australia batch and with the best of intentions, I one day plan to redo some of the ones that got used myself. If somebody else in the meantime steps in and reworks something I originally created, I'm actually rather psyched to see what they come up with.

 

Of course I'm equally pleased that some people like them in their current form (after all I too have an ego like everyone else here). Perhaps the fact that I'm due to lose my job in the coming months has made me a bit thicker-skinned or helped me take a different perspective on this. I'm not exactly going to lose sleep over a few forum posts.

 

If the renderers here truly don't want people mentioning names at all since apparently if you mention a name it is a request. If that is the case then as a group you should have EWAnite edit his first post with giant red letters saying "please do not request this is not a request thread". Or something to that effect. I've said it before Reaper, Kam, Boshey, Ajcnyc, shadowflames, sean mcfly, liamo, FINisher, these guys all do some sort of graphics and I've seen all of them take requests to varying degrees.

 

The thing is, the renderers aren't an official group. We don't have a secret HQ hidden away inside a volcano. We don't have communicate with one another concerning how best we can accomodate the wishes and needs of everyone on the forum and quite frankly, we all have different reasons as to why we render and what we intend to get out of doing it. Just because some of us are more open to "suggestions", doesn't mean that it should be expected from everyone else. Perhaps if it were manned be just one person as some of the aforementioned threads, this would be more cut and dried.

 

For instance nobody goes into ReapeR's thread and asks him to create a belt only to then post "can anybody else try this?" after he's finished. If ReapeR isn't taking requests, then that's pretty much the final word. But who's to say that just because (for example) jtlant doesn't take requests, J Silver won't either?

 

See, you say it's not a request, but this clearly is a request. Just like every other name that is mentioned in this thread. Suggestion? Request? Same difference. You're asking the renderers for a reworking of a character.

 

Lets be honest, a lot of this debate is just arguing over semantics. Being cute with the format of asking for something under the guise of 'suggesting' it isn't really fooling anyone. It's like posting a request in code and then tagging on "this is not a request" afterwards. Kinda like saying "You're an idiot" and then tagging on "this is not an insult" at the end. Some people have posted more genuine suggestions or prompts to look at certain characters, but most would fall firmly in the request catagory.

 

I'm also not quite sure why newbies to the forum keep getting brought up either, because just viewing the thread, I'm not seeing a ton of people with a 1-40 post count getting chewed out for posting requests, so they're not really the issue here.

 

That being said what would you like to see happen in this thread? The renderers spit out whatever they want without anyone speaking up except to apparently heap praise since I guess someone said something bad about a render of yours (I didn't see the render or the post) and so that upset you? So it sounds like to me nobody can mention a name and don't comment anything but praise.

 

Probably not meant the way it sounds, but yeah, if we put time and money into buying the software to do it, I'm pretty sure we can do whatever we want with it.

 

I gotta agree with everything here. My problem recently is we've been giving an inch and people have been taking a mile. We give our interpretation of a character and it's not good enough and so people continue to request it or will say it's not to their standard. Its insulting, really. If you have nothing good to say, don't say anything. Constructive criticisms are great, shooting down people's work is not.

 

There's always going to have to be a bit of give and take here. Feedback is only really worth having if it's allowed to be positive and negative (within reason of course, i.e. not open flaming). However disrespect can be subtle, unintended or based on perception. Going back to the suggestions, the dissmissive nature of some of them can be seen as insulting to the previous artists... saying such a character needs a new render, or stating they're ugly, out of place, plastic looking, whatever (I think most of these have been aimed at mine ).

 

Are some people being too sensitive? Probably. Are some people being too demanding? Probably. Is the a sense of entitlement creeping into some of the posts here? Probably, but rendering to a silent/gagged and generally non-responsive audience however is certainly not a satisfying experience.

 

I'm not really sure there's ever going to be a clear way forward on this. The only thing I do know however is that winning an argument over 'rights' or justification to comment, request and criticise will all be rather pointless if people stop rendering here and that's something I don't think anyone wants to see happen.

[nik624]

We don't have a secret HQ hidden away inside a volcano.

 

This makes me sad.

[PeterHilton]

Takuro Matsumoto

 

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d105/jsilver536/TakuroMatsumoto.jpg

 

 

Takesi Umehara

 

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d105/jsilver536/TakesiUmehara.jpg

 

 

The C-Verse Re-Render Photobucket

 

Love the renders you do of Japanese workers because they stay similar to the original render while still fleshing out the character with added details.

[ewanite]

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af173/ewanite/JungleJack.png?t=1283097291

[Remianen]

Jungle Jack?

 

 

And sebs, while it is semantics, I don't think anyone could take my suggestion post as a request of any kind. As many here can tell you, if I have a request, I'm more likely to PM it than anything else. It was what it said on the tin. You know I'm going to be the first to advocate for the "lesser lights" amongst the women. And like I said, working with a lot of creative types regularly, I know that sometimes all it takes is a seed planted in the creative cortex to get the juices flowing in that direction.

 

Of course, then ewanite goes and completely WTFPWNS a render of someone that even I had forgotten about (and a few people I'm actively pushing).

 

Oh and off topic one last time...

I think if they did that in real life... over half the roster in WWE/TNA having a manager... it would just look weird, and probably cause more harm than good.

 

I'm more the type who takes between 2-4 managers and gives them multiple clients.

 

So I'll agree that it's different. Just not in a good way. Like TNA using KOTM... different and probably sounds cool in a TEW diary, but, irl, EWWW.

 

I guess it comes down to what you like to do in the game. I'm a starmaker, a talent developer, that's what I do. Though granted, not on the same level as a cappyboy (I'd never willingly hire untalented or problem workers and build a promotion around them). Giving every wrestler (or tag team) a manager gives me more opportunities to do what I like to do. I'm not constrained by what WWE or TNA do or would do since I'm not playing WWE or TNA. I hearken back to a time when a manager was synonymous with his/her primary client(s). Names like Precious Paul Ellering, Elizabeth, JJ Dillon, and so forth. That's basically what I'm playing to. If I was following WWE and TNA's lead, I wouldn't even have a defined tag team division, after all.

 

Oh and another "KHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNN!" to ewanite for Karen Bilous. She actually got depushed in my mod because, after 3 months of working on it, I couldn't get her render to where I wanted it. So Viv Jacobs got the spot originally intended for Karen (as Emma Bitch's tag team partner). I'm fairly sure even the renders you scratched while making the ones you posted would even be usable (I know several of Trell's drafts on the way to some that he posted would fit that description). That makes me green.

[Self]

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af173/ewanite/JungleJack.png?t=1283097291

 

Looks really good. I'd consider moving the headband up, or scaling up the Y axis to cover the hairline. That hair prop is a bit messy. Fantastic face. Dig the expression. Love the texture on the band.

[Rathen4]

Looks really good. I'd consider moving the headband up, or scaling up the Y axis to cover the hairline. That hair prop is a bit messy. Fantastic face. Dig the expression. Love the texture on the band.

 

Agreeing with Self here, but you've absolutely aced the entire feel of the character. Just need the band to be higher so it's actually doing its job if you get what I mean!

[Gigas]

You mean its not Nicolas Lopez?

 

Seriously though, nice render.

[SeanMcFly]

We don't have a secret HQ hidden away inside a volcano.

 

Or do you not just have the key to enter

[The Masked Orange]

Just thought I'd say something about this thread.

 

This is a super cool thread, cooler than Yolanda and on par with Samuel L (yes, been watching Pulp Fiction).

 

But with all this suggestions/critique malarkey, I just don't get what people are going on about.

 

This thread in my opinion is owned by the renderer's, and the only people that can honestly give a constructive critique of a render is a fellow renderer. Us regular folk should only ever pop in when we want to do some ego inflating for someone who has done some amazing work, or who is really starting to get the hang of it.

 

I don't think any pressure should be put on anyone to do any particular renders, I'd rather have 47 Regular Joe's than to have forced someone to make new renders for all of the Aussies. Nobody is doing any forcing here, but it really is the case of at least ten different people giving a slight nudge, it can start to really get on your nerves.

 

I do have to admit this saddens me because a lot of my favourite people on these boards personality-wise are renderer's, and i really do hope no one is discouraged from these boards.

 

Ever heard of just going along with the rules for the greater good? I think just taking the path of making sure this thread belongs to the renderer's is the greater good. In a really after-school special way.

[ewanite]

Thanks for the tips, added a skullcap and moved the band up.

 

Jungle Jack

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af173/ewanite/th_JungleJack-1.jpg?t=1283121724

[SeanMcFly]

First one in awhile... Sky King, let me know if there's stuff I can tweak

 

Sky King

http://i35.tinypic.com/2bci0h.jpg

[Self]

This thread in my opinion is owned by the renderer's, and the only people that can honestly give a constructive critique of a render is a fellow renderer. Us regular folk should only ever pop in when we want to do some ego inflating for someone who has done some amazing work, or who is really starting to get the hang of it.

 

While I love the general message of your post, I disagree with the bolded part. In this case, seeing as we're re-rendering characters the entire community know and love, there is a place for non-renderers to give input. For example, when I started working on the BSC girls, I regularly sent WIP images to Remianen, because I knew he'd used those girls a lot and would have his own vision of what they look like. The feedback was very helpful. Similarly, the Remmy Skye thing. Did it hurt my feelings? Yes. Was it valid? Absolutely. Perhaps leave the technical stuff to the artists, but if you love the character, feel free to give feedback. Just be constructive. More "I see him as an angrier dude" than "That sucks".

 

As I've mentioned in the past, if anyone wants to requests alts of my stuff, those are requests I'm interested in filling. 87% of the time I'll give it a shot.

 

Maybe that's what bothers me about suggestions. It's a constant stream of "More! More!" when for me, creating a new character is hard. Even working to a brief, it takes me time. When I truly nail a render, I'd love to dwell on it, and have people share their ideas on different gimmicks and expressions and alts they'd like. Live in the present, instead of constantly looking to the future.

 

This might just be me though. The rate at which jtlant and J Silver knock them out, perhaps they don't have that problem.

 

Thanks for the tips, added a skullcap and moved the band up.

 

Jungle Jack

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af173/ewanite/th_JungleJack-1.jpg?t=1283121724

 

Awesome stuff.

 

First one in awhile... Sky King, let me know if there's stuff I can tweak

 

Sky King

http://i35.tinypic.com/2bci0h.jpg

 

Maybe widen the nose and sink the eyes/make the brow heavier. Play with some expressions too. Look for his soul.

[shamelessposer]

Look for his soul.

 

Have you ever looked into a render's eyes? They're empty, like a doll's eyes.

[The Masked Orange]

While I love the general message of your post, I disagree with the bolded part. In this case, seeing as we're re-rendering characters the entire community know and love, there is a place for non-renderers to give input. For example, when I started working on the BSC girls, I regularly sent WIP images to Remianen, because I knew he'd used those girls a lot and would have his own vision of what they look like. The feedback was very helpful. Similarly, the Remmy Skye thing. Did it hurt my feelings? Yes. Was it valid? Absolutely. Perhaps leave the technical stuff to the artists, but if you love the character, feel free to give feedback. Just be constructive. More "I see him as an angrier dude" than "That sucks".

 

As I've mentioned in the past, if anyone wants to requests alts of my stuff, those are requests I'm interested in filling. 87% of the time I'll give it a shot.

 

Maybe that's what bothers me about suggestions. It's a constant stream of "More! More!" when for me, creating a new character is hard. Even working to a brief, it takes me time. When I truly nail a render, I'd love to dwell on it, and have people share their ideas on different gimmicks and expressions and alts they'd like. Live in the present, instead of constantly looking to the future.

 

This might just be me though. The rate at which jtlant and J Silver knock them out, perhaps they don't have that problem.

 

Sounds like you have no problem with that, but i did mean with technical stuff. People reccomending alts is an entire different ball park. But don't we have a thread for that?

 

Sorry for that awful joke, gotta wait another 44 minutes before I can watch deadliest warrior on megavideo.

 

The main problem with suggestions is that the web is world wide. If only 100 people out of 6 billion each put one suggestion in this thread since it started, it still won't feel "roomy". And it hasn't even been 100, just that there are around a baker's dozen of renderers and hundreds of onlookers going "oooh new Jack Bruce, ooh new Chess Maniac..."

 

It's almost like this thread is going too fast, around 3/4 rerenders a day minimum in this thread, that is insane! It's like you are all trying to out do eachother, I've had rerenders that have been saved over rerenders. It's the type of productive creative mayhem I love.

[PeterHilton]

This thread in my opinion is owned by the renderer's, and the only people that can honestly give a constructive critique of a render is a fellow renderer. Us regular folk should only ever pop in when we want to do some ego inflating for someone who has done some amazing work, or who is really starting to get the hang of it.

 

 

Like Self said, your message is great except for that bit. It's really unfair to say that no one except a renderer can give a constructive critique. I've worked on several mods with several artists on this board, and we were able to go back and forth talking about the look of a render w/o any hurt feelings.

 

Again, as Self said, technical stuff aside,the people who play this game and love these characters can give valid, helpful opinions as long as it's done in a respectful manner

 

EDIT: Masked Orange clarified. So there you go...

 

Thanks for the tips, added a skullcap and moved the band up.

 

Jungle Jack

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af173/ewanite/th_JungleJack-1.jpg?t=1283121724

 

This is fantastic. ewanite your renders recently have been amazing.

[Gigas]

Why is it so hard to just ignore the requests if you dont want to take requests? I dont really see it as a big deal if someone comes in and drops a name or two, as long as he doesnt bump it every 4 hours and get rather demanding about it, or makes a list of an entire promotion..

 

Hell, Im the one who mentioned Remy Skye in the first place and Self actually made a Remy alt (a good one imo). Sometimes maybe someone with a request can find an overlooked wrestler (like Li Bingci) who is really in need of a new render and otherwise never would have gotten one. Or it could just be ignored which is 100% fine too.

 

But meh, I dont make renders. I'll throw a name out there every now and then and if Im ignored, thats cool. I was expecting to be ignored

 

You all do good work though, and I wouldnt be offended if someone doesnt like your render. You cant please everyone. Of course if you dont like a render, its probably best to just not say anything unless its constructive.

[J Silver]

Texas Pete

 

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d105/jsilver536/TexasPete-1.jpghttp://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d105/jsilver536/TexasPete_alt1.jpg

 

 

Munemitsu Senmatsu

 

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d105/jsilver536/MunemitsuSenmatsu.jpg

 

 

And a few re-lights,

 

 

Adam Matravers/ British Samurai/ Justin Sensitive

 

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d105/jsilver536/AdamMatravers-2.jpghttp://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d105/jsilver536/BritishSamurai-1.jpghttp://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d105/jsilver536/JustinSensitive-1.jpghttp://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d105/jsilver536/JustinSensitive_alt1-1.jpg

 

 

 

 

The C-Verse Re-Render Photobucket

[Comradebot]

Love your take on Pete, JSilver.

 

Makes me sad he works for one of the "soulless" companies...

 

That's right, TCW has no soul! Just like UEW and NOTBPW!!!

[PeterHilton]

J Silver, these are awesome.

 

That Texas Pete should be the default asap imo. It makes me wish i'd stolen him from TCW when i had the chance

 

also, i wanted to post this in the thread in case anyone missed it in the photobucket.

 

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d105/jsilver536/RandyBumfhole_alt2-2.jpg

 

I sent Mr Silver a PM because I use an alt of Randy with short hair in my SWF game. J did a Randy Bumfhole render with short hair in this thread, but he was obviously a heel. I asked him for a good guy render and he kindly obliged.

 

Thanks J Silver.i hope others like it as much as i do

[Big Roguey]

Love your take on Pete, JSilver.

 

Makes me sad he works for one of the "soulless" companies...

 

That's right, TCW has no soul! Just like UEW and NOTBPW!!!

 

Why NOTBPW?

[Comradebot]

Why NOTBPW?

 

For being a giant, Canadian machine that does nothing more than systemmatically churn out quality in-ring matches, but providing nothing in terms of character or story. Therefore, soulless...

 

Well, soulless is what I refer to most of the Performance based companies as. No gimmicks, no angles, no stories... just matches... it's cold and machine-like to me. The one exception are the Japanese companies.

 

Don't get me wrong, some of them are good companies... but NOTBPW are probably my least favorite company in the game. They exist to put on the highest rated matches in the world, and that's it. They're just freakin' loaded with top-level talent. Always. They lost Duane Stone? Well, no fear, cause here's Steve frakin' DeColt! I just can't see any interest in ever using them. If I want a large Performance based company in North America, TCW is just down South... and has a far more colorful cast of charaters.

 

They just ain't the company for me. Pushing CGC or USPW to the next level takes careful booking and star building. With NOTBPW... it feels like "well, who can Jeremy Stone or Dan Stone Jr put on an awesome match with today"...

 

I digress. If you find joy in NOTBPW, then I'm happy for you. I, however, will never see them as more than a cold, heartless machine of a company. Glory to CGC!

[Big Roguey]

For being a giant, Canadian machine that does nothing more than systemmatically churn out quality in-ring matches, but providing nothing in terms of character or story. Therefore, soulless...

 

Well, soulless is what I refer to most of the Performance based companies as. No gimmicks, no angles, no stories... just matches... it's cold and machine-like to me. The one exception are the Japanese companies.

 

Don't get me wrong, some of them are good companies... but NOTBPW are probably my least favorite company in the game. They exist to put on the highest rated matches in the world, and that's it. They're just freakin' loaded with top-level talent. Always. They lost Duane Stone? Well, no fear, cause here's Steve frakin' DeColt! I just can't see any interest in ever using them. If I want a large Performance based company in North America, TCW is just down South... and has a far more colorful cast of charaters.

 

They just ain't the company for me. Pushing CGC or USPW to the next level takes careful booking and star building. With NOTBPW... it feels like "well, who can Jeremy Stone or Dan Stone Jr put on an awesome match with today"...

 

I digress. If you find joy in NOTBPW, then I'm happy for you. I, however, will never see them as more than a cold, heartless machine of a company. Glory to CGC!

 

I too hate NOTBPW, for pretty much the same reasons as you do. It was just interesting as I know about your hate for TCW and UEW. NOTBPW was new. LONG LIVE THE CULT KINGS AT EITHER 4C or RPW (only in the 97 verse)!

[Comradebot]

I too hate NOTBPW, for pretty much the same reasons as you do. It was just interesting as I know about your hate for TCW and UEW. NOTBPW was new. LONG LIVE THE CULT KINGS AT EITHER 4C or RPW (only in the 97 verse)!

 

/nod

 

4C is an interesting company. Could never book more than a couple shows with them (just can't quite figure them out), but they've always stood out to me. And RPW?! Pish Posh! All about PPPW! Krusher Karloff for the win!