Bigpapa42 Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 I indeed referred to Mr Ditch. I think he is fine with people posting the link as long as they're careful where they do so, but it probably is safe to ask first. He has some real gems that would serve well to give people a taste of the various groups in Japan. I'm pretty sure its more of posting the actual match links without permission that he's concerned about. I find it a fantastic resource. Its not just the volume of matches he has available, but that each one has a small write-up. Its a limited amount of detail, but its a great way to gain some understanding of things when you first getting into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 The Rough Beginners Guide to Japanese Wrestlers And I do mean rough. This guide, which will be in multiple parts, is written with newcomers to Japanese wrestling in mind and is intended to give them a thumbnail sketch of the various top-name wrestlers in Japan as far as what to expect from them and major matches of theirs they should try and catch. It’s very simplistic and is intended to be so the newcomer can easily digest things. http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2005/07/11/hashimoto.jpg Shinya Hashimoto If you like violent and vigorous wrestling, then Hashimoto is the man for you. Hashimoto’s style sees him use a lot of stiff kicks and chops and painful submission holds. Hashimoto’s matches aren’t flashy and are typically hard hitting affairs that tend to have that ‘fight’ feel. His signature moves include a brutal looking brainbuster, multiple DDT variations and a spinning heel kick . Matches of his you would most likely enjoy would be: Shinya Hashimoto vs. Lord Steven Regal (4/16/95) Lots of strong wrestling and no messing about. You get some nice strikes and some great looking holds used by both wrestlers. Shinya Hashimoto vs. Genichiro Tenryu (8/1/98) Tenryu was in his ‘grumpy old bastard’ phase here, so this match is no-nonsense stuff. Again, lots of chops, from both men, and nothing fancy; just a good old-fashioned brawl. Shinya Hashimoto vs. Kazuo Yamazaki (8/2/98) Yamazaki is a shoot-style wrestler which plays into what Hashimoto does best. You get more of a submission-orientated match here so you'll get to see more of what Hashimoto could do. Hashimoto’s matches are stiff enough that if you’re only used to mainstream American stuff, you’ll wince a fair bit before you get used to them. If you want your wrestling to be no-nonsense stuff with the matches to have an air of realism then you’ll like Hashimoto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapa42 Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 Nice, Fantabulous. Really nice. I've focused moreso on All Japan and Noah until fairly recently. I watched some of the bigger New Japan matches but didn't really go as deep. I have been doing so lately - watching Fujinami vs Hoshino from 1979 as I type this - and I'm really enjoying. Hashimoto is all kinds of awesome. I read somewhere that he is the biggest "big draw" ever, at least by the measure of how many show he headlined with 50,000 or more fans. In that regard, he was bigger than Hogan, Flair, Inoki, El Santo... If true, that's kinda incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 The Rough Beginners Guide to Japanese Wrestlers And I do mean rough. This guide, which will be in multiple parts, is written with newcomers to Japanese wrestling in mind and is intended to give them a thumbnail sketch of the various top-name wrestlers in Japan as far as what to expect from them and major matches of theirs they should try and catch. It’s very simplistic and is intended to be so the newcomer can easily digest things. http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2005/07/11/hashimoto.jpg Shinya Hashimoto If you like violent and vigorous wrestling, then Hashimoto is the man for you. Hashimoto’s style sees him use a lot of stiff kicks and chops and painful submission holds. Hashimoto’s matches aren’t flashy and are typically hard hitting affairs that tend to have that ‘fight’ feel. His signature moves include a brutal looking brainbuster, multiple DDT variations and a spinning heel kick . Matches of his you would most likely enjoy would be: Shinya Hashimoto vs. Lord Steven Regal (4/16/95) Lots of strong wrestling and no messing about. You get some nice strikes and some great looking holds used by both wrestlers. Shinya Hashimoto vs. Genichiro Tenryu (8/1/98) Tenryu was in his ‘grumpy old bastard’ phase here, so this match is no-nonsense stuff. Again, lots of chops, from both men, and nothing fancy; just a good old-fashioned brawl. Shinya Hashimoto vs. Kazuo Yamazaki (8/2/98) Yamazaki is a shoot-style wrestler which plays into what Hashimoto does best. You get more of a submission-orientated match here so you'll get to see more of what Hashimoto could do. Hashimoto’s matches are stiff enough that if you’re only used to mainstream American stuff, you’ll wince a fair bit before you get used to them. If you want your wrestling to be no-nonsense stuff with the matches to have an air of realism then you’ll like Hashimoto. Is this the guy who supposedly legit got the crap kicked out of him by Naoya Ogawa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Also, please explain this... http://quick.dezro.com/HardGayAlbum.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linsolv Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 He's gay. Stereotypically, flamboiyantly gay. That's the reference I'm seeing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genadi Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I can't remember where ot was from but the coolest image I've seen come out of Japan was a very young girl (maybe 8 or 10) giving an "Undertaker Chokeslam" to someone. Even stuck her tounge out Taker style for the pin, was just pure win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurningHamster Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Also, please explain this... http://quick.dezro.com/HardGayAlbum.jpg Scary thing is, he's actually straight but just plays gay. Is/was a comedian who did some wrestling in hustle. Not sure how he got away with using the name razor ramon and just adding hardgay to it though. Oh yeah, and that was his cover of a Village People song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek B Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Just have to say that I'm loving this thread. I've never known a lot about puro but I'd managed to pick up little bits from playing TEW and watching the odd match here and there. Kobashi and Misawa are the two I've probably seen the most of and I know a little about some of the moves. Reading this thread is giving me some good insight into the world over there and I'm looking forward to catching some of the matches that I won't have seen yet due to having no idea of who to look for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Is this the guy who supposedly legit got the crap kicked out of him by Naoya Ogawa? Yeah, that's Hashimoto and he did. New Japan were negotiating with Ken Shamrock to come in and work an IWGP title program with Hashimoto, the first match of which was to headline a Dome show. New Japan announced the match before Shamrock had signed a contract and Shamrock went and signed with the WWF instead. Ogawa was going to debut on the undercard of that show and was moved into the main event, facing Hashimoto in a non-title match, which he won. Hashimoto won the rematch, which was for the title. Because of Hashimoto's credibility as tough guy, Inoki wanted to use that to make Ogawa a major star in wrestling, and so they had a match on January 4th 1999 where Ogawa was told by Inoki, and Hashimoto knew this ahead of time, to go all out on Hashimoto and basically beat him up for real. The finish was going to be Hashimoto hitting the referee to cause a no contest, which Hashimoto would do when he felt he had had enough. It got over as a shoot because nobody outside of those involved in the match knew what was going to happen, and it got Ogawa over huge as a legit badass because people thought he had beaten Hashimoto up for real. He had, but the reality was Hashimoto knew the beating was coming and had to stand there and take it. The rematch was in October of that year was a very stiff and worked to legit. The finish saw Ogawa hit Hashimoto with his STO and, again, beat the crap out of Hashimoto before Inoki jumped in to stop the match. The final match in the series was in April of 2000 at the Dome, where Hashimoto had vowed to retire if he lost. Everything was set for Hashimoto to get the big win, everyone expected it and the match drew a great rating. There was only one problem. Inoki showed up at the Dome and changed the finish to Ogawa winning. He felt Ogawa was now the bigger star and was the one to go with. So, Ogawa won, via a ten-count KO, and Hashimoto's tough guy reputation was officially dead and buried. His career as a major name was about done as well, although he did have a nice run with All Japan as an outsider holding their Triple Crown, but his aura of being a genuine tough guy was destroyed in the program with Ogawa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 NOAH is coming over to the UK in May, with two shows. Broxbourne (just above London) and Wolverhampton (Next to Birmingham). KENTA, Ricky Marvin, and one other bloke whose name escapes me are already announced, but promises are made about some top US independent guys too. If any Brits want to check out puro first hand, I'd advise checking the shows out. Here's the site I'll be going to both shows, but I know next-to-nothing about NOAH. As far as Japanese wrestling goes, I pretty much only watch Dragon Gate. So I'm left with a conundrum. Either I research my little heart out, or do nothing and let myself be surprised. I've never seen KENTA before in my life. I hear he's great. Could be awesome to pop my KENTA-cherry live and in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapa42 Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 Also, please explain this... http://quick.dezro.com/HardGayAlbum.jpg HUSTLE is/was... odd... You had Magnum Tokyo playing a detective and Yinling ("The Erotic Terrorist") getting pregnant when she was hit in the "right spot" by Muta's green mist... From what I understand the "Hard Gay" Razor Ramon character got quite over with fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waghlon Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 From what I understand the "Hard Gay" Razor Ramon character got quite over with fans. And disturbingly over in the rest of the world. He was this close to ending up doing a concert in Denmark at an anime convention last year... Great thread BTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 The Rough Beginners Guide to Japanese Wrestlers http://www.gerweck.net/jushinliger.jpg Jushin Liger Liger will be familiar to fans of WCW circa 1991-2, due to his series of matches with Brian Pillman as well as a singles match with Chris Benoit (a Japanese match aired on WCW Saturday Night with commentary by Jim Ross) and a couple of tag matches in the NWA World tag title tournament, teaming with Pillman, which included a pretty good match on a Clash. Liger is your man if you like good, solid technical wrestling that has some flashiness to it but you also want some fine aerial work thrown in to spice things up. Liger is 46-years-old, so his current work isn’t so flashy for obvious reasons. On a similar note, his flying from his classic days (1991-1996) doesn’t look as crazy when compared to the insanity of today, but it does seem more logical and fits into the matches better, ie: Liger flies when it makes sense and doesn’t go flippy-flop just to get a momentary pop. His signature moves these days are a running palm thrust and a tight looking brainbuster, whilst in his heyday, Liger would regularly bust out the moonsault, a great flip dive over the top rope to the floor, and an elbow off the top rope that always looked good. Matches of his you would most likely enjoy would be: Jushin Liger vs. Owen Hart (1/30/90) Jushin and Owen work a good, fast-paced match that sees an exchange of back and forth flying and some nice technical work. If you’re familiar with Owen, you know what kind of stuff to expect from him and he works well with Liger Jushin Liger vs. Pegasus Kid/Chris Benoit (any) Liger/Benoit have great chemistry and their matches follow a similar patter; hard fought technical exchanges, where both men fight for what they wants, and some big flying thrown in at the end. This series will be enjoyed by people who want their flying to feel like it’s been properly built to and it feels like the peak of excitement. Jushin Liger vs. Brian Pillman (2/29/92) Liger-Pillman is a meeting of pure Japanese and pure American styles. Pillman does hold his own here but Liger is clearly the superior worker. Again, it’s the logical build that makes this match great, and with Pillman in it, you’ll see stuff you’re familiar with which I think helps get you into matches involving wrestlers who are new to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapa42 Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Another nice guide. Now, I was going to wait and post this as part of another primer. But I received permission from the site owner to post the link and figured it would be best to do it ASAP. The link below is to Ditch's Wrestling, which is a "Holy Grail" site for those looking to download Puroresu matches. There are thousands upon thousands of matches, going all the way back to Rikidozan in the 50s and covering every promotion. Many of the matches are hosted on the site itself, while others are through Megaupload. If you are going to visit, please respect the rules of the site. And since amazing sites like that don't run for free, please consider donating to keep it running. I personally love that each match has some type of note about it and some even have full testimonials. As far stuff like "where to start", I'll cover that when I get to the actual primer. http://ditch.lcwe.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 A word of warning when it come to All-Japan main events in the 80s; get used to the non-finish. When it came to the main events in the 80s in All Japan, and this goes somewhat for New Japan too, stars did not get beaten. Ever. You might occasionally get a flash pinfall but when it comes to a conclusive finish you did not get them at all in All Japan. So while the action may be good, or great, just remember that when you decide to invest the time in watching whatever match it is you want to see, be very aware that you won't be happy with the ending. Case in point, Bruiser Brody vs. Genichiro Tenryu from All Japan on 4/15/88, and bear in mind this was a title unification match to form what would end up becoming the Triple Crown. After about 25-minutes, Brody hits his big kneedrop off the top rope and begins selling his knee and winds up rolling to the floor. Tenryu, selling the move, also ends up rolling to the floor. Cue a double countout. Lame doesn't even begin to describe how this feels and how frequently this sort of thing would happen in All Japan. Thankfully, the second incarnation of the UWF hit it big but that's another story... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoNdOn Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEBeQ0pYLog http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RseGEw0sY1w&mode=related&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh4DfsanLoI&mode=related&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PydGT5_RPIg God I love that little girl. That is up there with some of the best things I have ever seen in my life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linsolv Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Actually that match in particular (Tenryu vs Brody) felt like, to me, it ended with "Woah man that was awesome!" Even though to an extent I really wanted Tenryu to win (I don't know if it was just me because I haven't been able to find anything except the title matches, but it seemed like he was being booked as a wild man with no morals or self control, and Tenryu was this sorta heroic dude. So I was marking pretty hard at the time.) I felt like it really made the threat seem kinda "real" that Tenryu, this big heroic figure who looked like he could piledrive a bear couldn't take him out. But... could just be my taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Actually that match in particular (Tenryu vs Brody) felt like, to me, it ended with "Woah man that was awesome!" Even though to an extent I really wanted Tenryu to win (I don't know if it was just me because I haven't been able to find anything except the title matches, but it seemed like he was being booked as a wild man with no morals or self control, and Tenryu was this sorta heroic dude. So I was marking pretty hard at the time.) I felt like it really made the threat seem kinda "real" that Tenryu, this big heroic figure who looked like he could piledrive a bear couldn't take him out. But... could just be my taste. It's not that the finish itself was bad, not that I liked it, because almost any finish can be a good one if it's done right and presented correctly. The problem is more an overall one in that you got the exact same finish for 98% of All Japan main events in the 80s; a 20+ minute match and then one or both men got counted out or disqualified. When you're doing the double countout finish for most of your main events then even when it's done for a match that fits, it just comes off as overkill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linsolv Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 That's true. I guess I can see that. But that example in particular really sold me on Tenryu (not as much Brody... c'est la vis) so I wanted to declare that I liked it. I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 A Rough Guide to the ‘Young Lions’ system in Japanese wrestling If you’ve played TEW then you’ll have seen the term Young Lion used and this rough guide is intended to explain how that works in Japan which is pretty much the blueprint for how it usually works everywhere else. When a young Japanese wrestler first debuts for a promotion he’s referred to as a ‘young boy’ because he is just starting out in wrestling. For the first year or so of his career, he’ll usually be put in tag matches where his role is to ‘get the heat’; it’s his job to set up the hot tag for the veteran partner. If he’s lucky, the Young Boy will get a few moves in so he doesn’t look like a total nothing but his role is strictly to get beaten up to build to the tag. If his team is losing, then the Boy gets pinned and if the team is winning then the veteran gets the pinfall. This does not change. Period. In singles matches, the Young Boy gets strictly token offence, if that. His role is to get beaten up and come back for more until he loses. This stage of the Young Boy’s career is all about ‘showing fire’. It’s about the Boy taking a beating, not giving up, and coming back for more until he finally loses. Because he is at the beginning of his career, the Young Boy wears basic attire; tights, boots and kneepads. And it’s usually black or, if not, some other simple colour. This reflects the stage at which the Young Boy is at; he’s in a position where has only ‘earned’ the most basic of attire. After about a year of this, the promotion will usually send the wrestler overseas for an ‘excursion’, typically for up to a year, where he’ll gain experience working in other promotions. This is intended for the wrestler to improve as worker and for the fans to see him working his way up the ladder in his career, albeit not necessarily in the promotion. Once the excursion is over, the wrestler returns to Japan. His attire will have ‘matured’ and he might be wearing something with a little more colour, his physique will have improved, and he’ll be seen to have grown. At this stage in his career, the wrestler will still lose to veterans but it won’t be so easy this time. He’ll get in more offence than before, get to shine more than before, and the portrayal is that the young wrestler has grown in his time away but he still isn’t at the stage where he can beat the veterans. It’s at this point where the wrestler might get his first taste of championship experience and be put in matches for whatever Midcard titles the promotion has. If it’s in tag matches then, like before, his role will be to get the heat for the veteran partner. However, he’ll get more offence than before and will be seen to ‘belong’ at that level. As before, if his team is losing then the younger wrestler will be the one who gets pinned. However, if his team is winning, and he’s considered good enough or ‘matured’ enough, then the young wrestler might even be the one who gets the fall on the junior member of the opposing team; as always, it’s the junior partner of a team who usually gets pinned. In singles matches, because it is at the Midcard level, the wrestler will be more of an equal in the match and while it will be clear his opponent is the better man, the young wrestler will come out of the match looking like he really belongs at that level. The wrestler is typically closing in on eight years before he gets to move up the card a little more. You’ll probably start to see him in six-man main events where he’ll usually drop the fall or if the promotion wants to start people getting behind him, he might get to pin the junior member of the opposing team. It’s also at this stage where might start vying for the company’s main tag titles which is typically done to get the fans into accepting them at that level before they can move on to the company’s top singles title. The wrestler will be teamed with a current top wrestler where the usual pattern continues; the junior wrestler of the team drops the fall and senior member scores them. This pattern gets broken when it is felt the wrestler is good enough to be a top singles wrestler, and if a junior member of one team beats the veteran member of the opposing team it’s a big deal. Top stars in Japan are protected and rarely do jobs so that when they do, it is big news and it means something. When this happens you can take it to mean the wrestler in question is being put in line for move to the top level; whether he can stay there is reliant on how good he is, because Japanese fans rarely accept sub-par talent at the top of the card. So, the wrestler has made all the way to a shot at the company’s main title. And loses. Because he is still growing, and while his positioning has made it clear that he can make it to the top, he has to be seen to ‘grow’ to the level where, if the promotion feels he is right for the spot, it will be accepted for him to become the ‘Ace’ of the company. A native wrestler in Japan rarely wins a major singles title on his first try for the same reason a rookie never beats a veteran; he has to be seen to have earned his spot, by growing in stature and growing in talent. It’s a similar deal as when the WWF fans turned on The Rock when he beat Triple for the IC Title in early 1997; he hadn’t earned the spot he was put in. For a Japanese example, when New Japan decided to get behind Shinsuke Nakamura in his rookie year and have him beat Hiroyoshi Tenzan for the IWGP title, a lot of fans did not accept Nakamura because he was still a rookie and didn’t feel he had earned the spot he was put in. Once he has had that first title match, however, the wrestler has usually ‘made his bones’ as a main event star. He’ll still do jobs to main event stars, because he isn’t a ‘top’ star, but the wrestler is now at the stage where he gets the Young Boy tag partner to set up the hot tag and will be the one who faces the Young Boys in singles matches to beat them up and let them show ‘fire’. This guide is general, and sometimes a promotion will do things differently for whatever reason (case in point, Shinsuke Nakamura), however what’s been outlined here is the usual pattern for rookie wrestlers in Japan. In short, they have to earn their spot on the card and show they have the talent to be at their current level because only then will fans accept them naturally progressing up the card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapa42 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 Another great write-up, Fantabulous. Got a Best 100 New Japan matches of the the 1980s set on its way. Can't wait. Some great great wrestling on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 With talk of DVD's , this is good time to mention what is probably the ideal set to get for an introduction into All Japan, and although it appears a lot to take in, 32-discs worth of matches, it's worth it in the long run. History of the All Japan Triple Crown Championship This is a 32-disc set that covers the creation of the Triple Crown, which includes the previously mentioned Tenryu/Brody match, and has every Triple Crown title match from its inception through to mid-2007, with Minoru Suzuki's reign. This is a good set to watch because it shows the evolution of All Japan's main event scene from the 80s to the 90s, as Tsuruta and Hansen make way for Misawa and Kobashi. It showcases numerous classic matches and because it does show every TC match, when it comes to Misawa/Kawada or Misawa/Kobashi matches, you're able to see the natural progression that comes when two foes become ever more familiar with each other. This offsets what can be a problem with major All Japan matches, because a lot of what makes a match great is the subtlety of one match playing off of a previous one, and if you pick up from late on in the series, you're not getting the little details that make the match what it really is. As mentioned, you get to see the awesome series of matches between Misawa and Kawada and Misawa and Kobashi. There are also a pair of really stiff Misawa/Vader matches on here, the run of New Japan 'outsider' Keiji Muto as Triple Crown Champion and Toshiaki Kawada's fantastic run as champion in '03-'05, which includes intense matches against Don Frye and Shinya Hashimoto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapa42 Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 I've read about the Triple crown set somewhere before. I'm going to have to look into it. Can't find it on Hightspots but I'll have to take a look around. That much quality is just mind-blowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapa42 Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 Finally received the Top 100 New Japan Matches of the 1980s set that I ordered a few weeks ago. 15 discs worth of New Japan greatness. My weekend just filled up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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