Derek B's Mod-Making Guide

[SirMichaelJordan]

It's the same with indy companies. Modders would give a indy company even popularity to all regions because the company is "popular" everywhere in the US. This would have a company like PWG booking shows in florida...

 

Popularity is subjective, obviously companies are going to book where they are going to make guaranted max profit. Modder can either work within the game's mechanism or ignore it and compromise realism.

 

Things like TV deals could get modded to your own criteria.

 

Inaccurate and high attentence makes money even more easy to obtain which make it even more easy to grow. But some players want to be able to grow fast.

[Bigpapa42]

If you want to look at it as "well, it doesn't really affect anything", then what exact negative game-play effect does the AI holding shows outside the US have? If its not gradually drawing down the popularity of the promotion, the issue that Derek helped me resolve, then what is it messing up? If I'm going to shrug off "well, I can't hold shows there at all" and "I won't be able to get or renew a TV deal", why is it any more wrong to shrug off "well, the AI holds more shows there than is realistic". You seem rather bothered by the AI doing that but if its not actually negatively affecting the promotion.....?

 

England and Europe don't have American-style PPV. They have pay subscription channels, like Sky Sports. Those broadcasters pay the WWE rights fees and then broadcast the PPV events free to subscribers. Its not a model that the game emulates. So a PPV deal is the only way to do it. Any SkySports isn't a Very Small broadcaster so I'm adjusting something else just to accommodate the lower popularity.

 

Haven't seen any hard numbers lately, but the last I saw was that Raw typically draws around the same number of viewers in Canada as Monday Night Football does. Its one of the highest rating non-sport cable shows in the country. And yeah, dropping the popularity unrealistically so the AI won't hold as many shows in Canada and taking away the ability of the user (me) from holding shows there (given that its my home country) doesn't appeal to me.

 

At no point did I claim that I wanted to make it "as realistic as possible". As K-Nection pointed out, there are always going to be aspects that don't emulate. Adjusting a bunch of stuff so one aspect does means other stuff won't. Given that the holding shows outside the home area dynamic is an AI issue and the stated intent is to mod this for personal use so I can book the WWE.........

 

I do agree with that, SirMichael. The 2 current RW mods mostly have varying popularity levels for smaller promotions and well as for indy workers, so it seems more accurate.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Just want to point out that a lot of the viewers and attendence figures can get manipulated by tweaking the community size which I like to call "wrestling community size" Community size is the main culprit of inflated attendence. Those default c verse numbers could be easily be cut in half for USA in a RWM.

[Bigpapa42]

Seems reasonable. You have to manage your time to get the best result. I'm curious, do people just kind of stat wrestlers on the fly or do they get an idea of what role the wrestler occupies and develop from there.

 

I typically generally rank top row stats as far as 90-100 = One of the best of all time, 80-89 = one of the best in the world currently, etc etc. I've been trying ton combine the statistics threads with DErek's work. Then I get a picture of the wrestler in my head. For minor league brawler Yuiga I just have an image of a veteran brawler with average skills but solid basics, safety, etc to represent she's been around for a long time without working full time for anyone but various promotions find a use for her now and then wrestling younger wrestlers.

 

A former star like Aja Kong is more complicated. She's no longer a main event title contender and tends to wrestler a little further down the card but she almost never jobs, so when it does happen it's a bigger deal.

 

Missed this. Apologies.

 

I can't really speak as a modder on this as I'm not modding from scratch. Almost all skills and popularity are being lifted from the two 2015 mods. I will adjust something if it seems too high or too low to me, but that's a bit different from doing skill levels from scratch.

 

To my mind, it has to be balanced. Its not just about the individual skill of the worker, but how it fits into the game-world. It seems like some who play the mods get caught up on the individual skills. You still sometimes see comments about "Dolph Ziggler's Selling being way too low" when its a 90 and one of the highest in the data. I look at skill levels in a similar way, so 90-plus skills should be fairly rare, except maybe in something like Basics. The T-verse has taught me that a worker doesn't need outstanding top row skills to be a solid to really good worker, especially in an SE company. Pretty sure Derek mentions in one of the first posts of this thread that looking at how workers decline in-game is a good indicator of how a veteran who is still a solid hand but no longer a world class talent can/should be crafted. Its not always workable to get the AI to book a worker like they are in real life, but something like the Icon contract might do that where they are used sparingly but rather protected.

[kn23m]

If you want to look at it as "well, it doesn't really affect anything", then what exact negative game-play effect does the AI holding shows outside the US have? If its not gradually drawing down the popularity of the promotion, the issue that Derek helped me resolve, then what is it messing up? If I'm going to shrug off "well, I can't hold shows there at all" and "I won't be able to get or renew a TV deal", why is it any more wrong to shrug off "well, the AI holds more shows there than is realistic". You seem rather bothered by the AI doing that but if its not actually negatively affecting the promotion.....?

Look at post above which I am quoting now, because SirMichaelJordan are given a hint/answer to your question!!

At no point did I claim that I wanted to make it "as realistic as possible".

OK - then there is no point to continue this discussion - like I already wrote - good luck!!

Just want to point out that a lot of the viewers and attendence figures can get manipulated by tweaking the community size which I like to call "wrestling community size" Community size is the main culprit of inflated attendence. Those default c verse numbers could be easily be cut in half for USA in a RWM.

I completely agree with this - in fact - it must be the first thing that is done when creating a new database, then continue with "Area set up" and "Trends" and only then tinker with promotions, workers and so on!!

[Bigpapa42]

Actually the post by SirMichael doesn't really address why the WWE AI holding more shows outside the WWE is detrimental to the point of requiring significant adjustment to address. In game, the WWE holding a show in Scotland (where its popularity is maybe C) is going to draw less fans than holding it in New England (where its popularity its probably B- or B). The game doesn't bring the logistical factors involved into play - the costs and time required to fly talent and equipment overseas. If anything, holding shows where the popularity is a bit lower slows the financial growth of the AI company.

 

However, I do agree that high attendances does create a financial imbalance. A lot of mods create much more of a financial imbalance with multiple PPV contracts that overlap with massive carriers, promotion-friendly TV contracts, etc. That seems to be more game-breaking to me as a PPV on a Massive carrier can bring in millions per month, then multiple it a few times. I will try to watch for attendance being significantly out of whack. WWE drawing 25k for a Raw broadcast or 50k for a non-major PPV, TNA getting 10k regularly.... those I would look to address. But being 10% or 15% above realistic average isn't going to get a great deal of attention, I expect. Appreciate the suggestion from SirMichael about Community Size if I do need to mediate those attendances.

[smartman]

I think Cult is pretty harsh...ECW in its absolute Prime was Cult and WWE is leaps and bounds above that. WCW in the final months was Cult and WWE is still selling to large venues all over the US. If they were Cult they would just concentrate on their biggest draws.

 

You have to remember that Cult is the biggest range in the game. You can be anything between popular in two areas with nothing else to 70 pop across the USA. Ask yourself if you really think WWE deserves 77 pop in the US because that's what National means in the game. If you set the shows' importance up a little, you can get 15,000 at 70 pop routinely which is pretty much all WWE gets outside of PPVs. With the way Cult has been redefined in the game, they make perfect sense to be Cult.

 

Cult feds have a couple of popular people, PPV deals, and Written contracts. They also hot-shot titles to newly hired people because no one else on their roster is hot enough to put a title on them. Once the Attitude era ended and it was clear WWE was going to coast, they really have fallen hard. Yes, they have coverage across the globe, but so does TNA, which no one would ever call National.

 

As for debating about ratings, Selling above 66 (maybe 70) is completely irrelevant so who cares whether Dolph's selling, which is good btw, is 90 or 80? Honestly, Psych is the only skill that matters as a raw number in a much pop fed since it will get you that killer penalty. So again, Selling 66+ maybe a little higher is fine forever, and Psych that is 82-85 for a Medium-high Cult fed and 88 for National and higher. The rest of the numbers outside of Entertainment & Camera skills and Star Quality basically don't matter for WWE other than to differentiate what type of wrestler they are (Brawlers, Mat Wrestlers, Fliers). They do if you run an Equal or Performance Fed though (see Derek's excellent breakdown of that in the first part of this thread).

[SirMichaelJordan]

You have to remember that Cult is the biggest range in the game. You can be anything between popular in two areas with nothing else to 70 pop across the USA. Ask yourself if you really think WWE deserves 77 pop in the US because that's what National means in the game. If you set the shows' importance up a little, you can get 15,000 at 70 pop routinely which is pretty much all WWE gets outside of PPVs. With the way Cult has been redefined in the game, they make perfect sense to be Cult.

 

Cult feds have a couple of popular people, PPV deals, and Written contracts. They also hot-shot titles to newly hired people because no one else on their roster is hot enough to put a title on them. Once the Attitude era ended and it was clear WWE was going to coast, they really have fallen hard. Yes, they have coverage across the globe, but so does TNA, which no one would ever call National.

 

As for debating about ratings, Selling above 66 (maybe 70) is completely irrelevant so who cares whether Dolph's selling, which is good btw, is 90 or 80? Honestly, Psych is the only skill that matters as a raw number in a much pop fed since it will get you that killer penalty. So again, Selling 66+ maybe a little higher is fine forever, and Psych that is 82-85 for a Medium-high Cult fed and 88 for National and higher. The rest of the numbers outside of Entertainment & Camera skills and Star Quality basically don't matter for WWE other than to differentiate what type of wrestler they are (Brawlers, Mat Wrestlers, Fliers). They do if you run an Equal or Performance Fed though (see Derek's excellent breakdown of that in the first part of this thread).

 

 

It all depends. Maybe they are National at 77 if you are importing WWE into the C-Verse. A 70 pop overall in C-Verse would make them Cult and like you said you can change things to get them back to 15,000 in attendance. The problem is that Real world and C-verse aren't the same. I think getting the right game world settings is just as important as getting the right attributes balance for workers.

 

Also the problem with WWE being Cult is that Cult only allows 1 tv show and not to mention the AI would probably start signing some of it's featured workers to PPA deals.

 

Depending on how you set up the game world a 77 in pop could be a cult company or a global company which would be more correct since 1 allows 1 tv show and the other allows 4. My main point is that a RWM needs its own gameworld setting.

 

I think the opinion of WWE is not big as it once was is hyped because of the current product and noone being on the level of Rock, Hogan and Austin. That opinion is ignoring the fact that WWE has had more bad eras then good. Golden Age and Attitude were probably WWE's peak but they are bigger than they ever were dating back to those periods. Does that mean WWE's pop should be in the 90's? Definitely not but like I said you can manipulate the gameworld.

[Teh_Showtime]

The attendance between the default game just doesn't equate to the real world at all.

 

TNA can rarely crack 4 figures in real life, but nobody would really say they are around E level popularity in the wrestling world, which is about where they would be if you were going by attendance.

 

Not to mention generally speaking how popular a promotion is and how many people will pay to see it are not the only factors surrounding attendance. You have to account for other major shows in the region (Mexico traditionally sees a drop around the time WWE makes a tour there), show promotion, etc and a lot of things that are handled subconsciously in the game right now that in real life might be handled better or worse than the game would.

[Fleisch]

Seems reasonable. You have to manage your time to get the best result. I'm curious, do people just kind of stat wrestlers on the fly or do they get an idea of what role the wrestler occupies and develop from there.

 

I typically generally rank top row stats as far as 90-100 = One of the best of all time, 80-89 = one of the best in the world currently, etc etc. I've been trying ton combine the statistics threads with DErek's work. Then I get a picture of the wrestler in my head. For minor league brawler Yuiga I just have an image of a veteran brawler with average skills but solid basics, safety, etc to represent she's been around for a long time without working full time for anyone but various promotions find a use for her now and then wrestling younger wrestlers.

 

A former star like Aja Kong is more complicated. She's no longer a main event title contender and tends to wrestler a little further down the card but she almost never jobs, so when it does happen it's a bigger deal.

 

I tend to try and get a feel for a wrestler by watching 2 random matches of theirs or reading up about them if possible. I don't watch their best or worst because then I'd instantly think, "well worker A botched 8 moves that match so I'll set him/her at 20 consistency" because that wouldn't be fair - he/she may have been having a rare off day. If I watch 2 matches and he/she botches 8 moves in each then I tend to think maybe they are a bit more inconsistent, and have a little less knowledge on the basics. I also try to gauge others opinions who have watched them, so if someone said to me "Fleisch wrestler A should have more in consistency than you've given because I've seen X amount of matches and they've never botched a move in any of those" then I'll take another look at him/her (providing their fix suggestions are within the balance of the mod as a whole and not "he/she should be 90 across the board". If I want to play favourites, then Taya Valkyrie would have 100 everywhere ).

 

This tends to be my reason for not adding random workers I've never seen as it takes up way too much of my time.

[Bigpapa42]

Figured I would give an update on my data tinkering. Had some time this weekend to do some editing and testing. Ran quite a number of test sims, all at least a year and some up to three years. The editing isn't actually all that much editing - just adjusting popularity down for a number of workers to match the newer versions of RWC and a lot of importing.

 

Up to something like 1350 workers. Two promotions in the starting data had no workers, so filled those out. Imported 3 more promotions - DDT, M-Pro, and wXw - and completed their rosters, titles, etc. Debating how many more active promotions I should add. Canada and Australia have none at the start, Mexico just has the big two, and Europe just has one. I'm just torn on what to add so might just stick with what's there. I have added a number of future promotions by taking some from the ThunderVerse and adding them as future companies with random debut dates. I also added all the masked free pics I have from the Tverse (about 100) because I have over 1000 real world free pics (of varying backgrounds, unfortunately) but almost none of them are masked. The Tverse background just looks less out of place, I find. Might pull all the masked worker images from the Tverse and make Free Pics for the data.

 

Okay, so the testing. I made the Importance adjustment suggested by Derek. Boom, WWE stays national, even when the AI likes to run shows outside of the US. TNA and ROH both do well. I neutered the company popularity of TNA a bit (so they are just barely cult) and both have their worker popularity adjusted to "more realistic" (IMO) levels. They still do well. TNA doesn't always hit National but ROH seems to, especially if they can keep some key talent.

 

I then decided to try drop the outside-the-US popularity of the WWE. Not as low as kn23m suggested, but from around C to around D. The AI running WWE shows in Japan, Mexico, and Britain wasn't a huge concern to me, as the intent is to run the WWE. But this seems a decent compromise - the WWE still has enough popularity there to maintain the TV and PPV broadcast deals. But it keeps them from running shows there regularly. The AI still shows Canada a lot of love, which I didn't drop as much. Ironically, these changes actually seems to make the AI WWE push toward International succeed faster as they keep most shows in the US and Canada, where both the company and the talent have more popularity.

 

Dropping the US popularity a bit more (B- range) didn't seem to hurt them. Attendances aren't a monstrous concern either, and on first examination, they appear relatively in line. Seeing PPVs (outside of WM) get about 15-20k and Raw in the 7-10k range, but I'll have a closer look (probably). Haven't looked at TNA attendances but I expect them to be a bit high. The Japanese companies - New Japan and Dragon Gate, mostly - tend to dominate the end of year awards and top 500. Which I guess isn't unrealistic. At least there is some variety and its not the same worker or two every year. I even saw Suwama win WOTY for 2015 in one test.

 

Still a decent amount of work left to do. I might find the motivation to add at least one active Canadian promotion, and I do want to import more workers. Being selective about the importing will make it a bit slower. At this point, though, I like the general overall balance enough that its probably playable. So its really just "polish". A big shout out goes to Fleisch for all the work he's done on RCW, as well as other modders like Forlan and Cpt Charisma. The work they've done makes this process far far easier, and I am massively appreciative of that.

[DreamGoddessLindsey]

Holy crap, this isn't just a mod-making guide, this is a fully-functional game guide!

[Infernalmiko]

I'm finding it's interesting trying to create young joshi puroresu wrestlers in 2015. Invariably they fit two groups.

 

1. Lots of dropkicks, rollups and forearms. Lots and lots of forearms.

 

2. Lots of MMA style kicks. Not really creative or acrobatic kicks. Just kicks. And forearms. Almost as many forearms.

 

It makes the rare wrestler who deviates from the mold that much more fun to watch. Statting most of them is dull. High stat: brawl. Maybe a little chain.

 

High flying is not nearly as used as the current generation of joshi wrestlers as it used to be.

[thadian]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="DreamGoddessLindsey" data-cite="DreamGoddessLindsey" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="36188" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Holy crap, this isn't just a mod-making guide, this is a fully-functional game guide!</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I learned more about this game from this thread than the in-game help.</p><p> </p><p> I was bumping up everyones stats to make them sell and bank - Some adjustments and I am fixed. My problem is that my guys weren't pushing up and selling - not because of a lack of skills - but because I decided it would be fun to make a bunch of brawlers and technicians and cruisers and entertainers... when my product wanted only entertainers and regulars. </p><p> </p><p> So, I changed all my MMA Crossover and Juniors and Luchadors and everyone else to Entertainers and Regulars. I now have only 4 classes of wrestler: Entertainer, Regular, Cruiserweight, Technician. That is it. Then I created a few simple matches - 1v1 Brawl, 1v1 Technical, 1v1 Comedy, 1v1 Eye Candy, etc. This empowers me to create even better roster for my promotions because I can give style, gimmick and performance skills correctly.</p><p> </p><p> I am now trying to decipher Popularity, Trends, Community Size, etc. I would like to set up how it was said earlier with less numbers to greater effect. I want my top promotions having a few strong TV contracts - one problem with RW mods, is that once those deals expire, you are stuck in a rut only able to play by normal rules - but having been playing this entire time on 12 Huge size networks. I want to set the game world correctly, so that promotions can be given the correct TV/PPV deals that will be acceptable. </p><p> </p><p> I want to have it set so that deals can be naturally extended once they expire, and that deals just as good - or better - can be reached, because in some of the RW Mods, it feels like a an F5 through the announce table when your deals expire, just to be forced to take worse deals (because of 10% costs/production to company for example). Yet it would feel great to qualify for Huge instead of Very Big coverage.</p>

[alvarasus]

Some places to look if anyone is going to make a mod in 50's to 80's. Use Wrestlingdata it has a ton of wrestlers, promotions, titles, that was working back in them days and much more. Cagematch is a good resource too. WrestlingClassics message board and Kayfabe Memories the site and message board. The reason to use these Boards a lot of old time workers are on these sites and plus you can find a lot of info combing through it. Relationships, locations where the promotions ran, how wrestlers really were outside the ring. You don't have to sign up for these sites s there free to use.

 

An if you want to set TV contracts to what they really were in 70's and 80's set Revenue split and cost split to 100 percent network and 100 percent company. The promotions actually paid the networks to air their shows.

[Idolized]

For anyone who wants it, I've compiled all of Derek B's mod making guide into a downloadable pdf file with table of contents. It was easier for me to have it all in one place instead of spread out over a bunch of forum posts.

 

http://ewwarehouse.info/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/DerekB_Mod_Guide.pdf

[kje3334]

For anyone who wants it, I've compiled all of Derek B's mod making guide into a downloadable pdf file with table of contents. It was easier for me to have it all in one place instead of spread out over a bunch of forum posts.

 

http://ewwarehouse.info/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/DerekB_Mod_Guide.pdf

Incredible, thank you.

[Colby]

For anyone who wants it, I've compiled all of Derek B's mod making guide into a downloadable pdf file with table of contents. It was easier for me to have it all in one place instead of spread out over a bunch of forum posts.

 

http://ewwarehouse.info/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/DerekB_Mod_Guide.pdf

 

Wow, as always Idol! Well done and thank you!

 

You're the best!

[Mattywood]

I'll let the video speak for me as for Idolized's contribution:

 

[SirMichaelJordan]

<p>Any plans for updating this for the new version?</p><p> </p><p>

Also, think some of the small details about ratings could come in handy as well</p><p> </p><p>

like needing a certain amount of menace to be able to use dominate effectively, the effect charisma have on thing other than entertainment angles, personality traits for able to work off a script and etc.</p>

[Colby]

Also, think some of the small details about ratings could come in handy as well

 

like needing a certain amount of menace to be able to use dominate effectively, the effect charisma have on thing other than entertainment angles, personality traits for able to work off a script and etc.

 

This is where the series becomes somewhat subjective I feel. I almost want to call this the "McMahon effect" and the suggested "caps" or limits on ratings in segments or matches based on "stats" or workrate/skill, isn't as severe or world ending as some would assume. I think it's a part of the overall formula no doubt, but to suggest over the course of a multiple year save you can't book your way around things is where the game gets subjective.

 

Not that you were outright saying this, but that's the base of many arguments on here regarding the above game mechanics. Such as personality traits and promos, charisma and star quality = overness cap, etc.

 

Only person who could outright explain this in detail is Adam. I'd personally never like to know some of these things in numbers or formula, but a detailed (and correct) description in a game-manual or guide like Idolz has produced would be a great resource. If only to end some crazy arguments we seem to have every iteration between almost an "old"/"new" guard of players

[Bigpapa42]

This is a TEW 2016 question but I figure it fits here. I've been messing with 2001 WCW Lives by Genadi data that Fleisch had been working on updating. Very much looking forward to converting it over to 2016. I was cleaning up the Network and PPV Carrier files a bit and got to thinking about the changes to broadcasters for 2016. According to the Developer's Journal, broadcasters will have 4 types - PPV, Commercial, Free-to-Air, and Subscription. So I was starting to think of what would fit what category.

 

The first two are fairly straight-forward, I think. But the latter two....

 

Free-to-Air: PBS, BBC.... struggling to come up with other options

Subscription: WWE Network, HBO, Sky Sports, New Japan World, Netflix, Hulu

 

So what other broadcasters - current or past - would fall into those? Syndication could almost go on Free-to-Air. And I was considering having iPPV as FTA as well, as I don't think the companies get much money out of it at all (though I could be wrong).

[AlaricRose]

I was wondering if I could get some help. I'm working on a rookie, but I can't seem to get the overness right. The concept is an American college football player decides to forgo professional football in exchange for wrestling, which is their true passion. They were a Heisman trophy winner and projected to be the number one overall draft pick. I can see them having a lot of popularity, but I can see there being a bit of a backlash amongst football fans.

[Infernalmiko]

The first two are fairly straight-forward, I think. But the latter two....

 

Free-to-Air: PBS, BBC.... struggling to come up with other options

Subscription: WWE Network, HBO, Sky Sports, New Japan World, Netflix, Hulu

 

So what other broadcasters - current or past - would fall into those? Syndication could almost go on Free-to-Air. And I was considering having iPPV as FTA as well, as I don't think the companies get much money out of it at all (though I could be wrong).

 

NHK would also qualify as free to air, but I don't recall them doing any sports, so they'd be anti. NicoNico could be free to air but alot of the time all the Japanese indy promotions get out of it is publicity, they certainly aren't making money on the deal. So leaving it as the internet option for distribution in most cases is fine. Maybe NicoNico premium as subscription for the bigger companies.

 

Stardom has a subscriber channel on Youtube and WAVE are opening their own video streaming department, so internet distribution does seem to be the next big thing, unless it crashes and burns.

[Bigpapa42]

I was wondering if I could get some help. I'm working on a rookie, but I can't seem to get the overness right. The concept is an American college football player decides to forgo professional football in exchange for wrestling, which is their true passion. They were a Heisman trophy winner and projected to be the number one overall draft pick. I can see them having a lot of popularity, but I can see there being a bit of a backlash amongst football fans.

 

Well, I wouldn't worry about "backlash" from fans of another sport, as that's not really represented in game. No different than MMA fans being upset when Brock Lesnar switched back to pro wrestling.

 

There is a wrestler in the default Cverse you could take a look at. Ross Henry. He's yet to debut and an American football star. So a step up from the rookie you are suggesting. I believe Henry is about a B- so I would so your character being a D+ to C would probably be reasonable.

 

NHK would also qualify as free to air, but I don't recall them doing any sports, so they'd be anti. NicoNico could be free to air but alot of the time all the Japanese indy promotions get out of it is publicity, they certainly aren't making money on the deal. So leaving it as the internet option for distribution in most cases is fine. Maybe NicoNico premium as subscription for the bigger companies.

 

Stardom has a subscriber channel on Youtube and WAVE are opening their own video streaming department, so internet distribution does seem to be the next big thing, unless it crashes and burns.

 

Good info, Infernalmiko. I don't know Japanese broadcasters that well, so rather helpful.

 

The small streaming options are becoming common, but I don't know if they really fit the subscription broadcaster option in the game. Curious if smaller promotions having that kind of broadcaster will unbalance things long-term....?