Lo-Drew Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Generic Heel 104" data-cite="Generic Heel 104" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="37073" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I've just started a <a href="http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=526567" rel="external nofollow">diary with BHOTWG</a>. Right here, on the GDS forums! :cheappop:<p> </p><p> As mentioned in that thread, I've really started following New Japan in the past year. Many of their top wrestlers definitely have characters: Tanahashi is a super babyface, Nakamura is sleazy, Okada is a cocky youngster obsessed with bling, Suzuki hates everything (and hates Toru Yano more than everything), Prince Devitt is basically 80s heel Ric Flair with a junior's move set, etc.</p><p> </p><p> Since I imagine BHOTWG as essentially an analogue of NJPW, should Burning Hammer be set up as fans not caring about (or even liking) gimmicks? Or is BHOTWG more conservative than actual New Japan?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Nakamura is just wacky. Yujiro's the real sleazy guy with all the porn stars he brings down to the ring with lol</p><p> </p><p> From what I've played of BHOTWG in the past, they're really conservative on gimmicks. Which is weird considering on start up certain wrestlers have gimmicks. Good thing though is that you can simply change a gimmick to none and you'll always get a B- or B; so you don't have to worry about someone with a bad gimmick simply because the BHOWTG fanbase aren't expecting any.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic Heel 104 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Nakamura is just wacky. Yujiro's the real sleazy guy with all the porn stars he brings down to the ring with lol Somebody didn't see Shinsuke's entrance at this year's Tokyo Dome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lo-Drew Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Oh trust me, I saw. Of course Shinsuke gets more chicks that Yujiro; he's the leader of CHAOS after all lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk1665 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 <p>EVen if the product doesn't support gimmicks, I fully think you should add them or at the very least flub it in writing. That's one thing I think TEW gets pretty seriously wrong (along with the heel/face stuff; there are <em>always heels in Puro</em>) in that most wrestlers had gimmicks of some type. Even AJPW had gimmicks; Kawada & Taue were the prick heels, Misawa was the golden boy face, Kobashi was the blue chipper, and Akiyama was the plucky underdog.</p><p> </p><p> I think that's one area where you might have to use your imagination more then the game mechanics, due to how limiting it can be.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernalmiko Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hawk1665" data-cite="Hawk1665" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="37073" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>EVen if the product doesn't support gimmicks, I fully think you should add them or at the very least flub it in writing. That's one thing I think TEW gets pretty seriously wrong (along with the heel/face stuff; there are <em>always heels in Puro</em>) in that most wrestlers had gimmicks of some type. Even AJPW had gimmicks; Kawada & Taue were the prick heels, Misawa was the golden boy face, Kobashi was the blue chipper, and Akiyama was the plucky underdog.<p> </p><p> I think that's one area where you might have to use your imagination more then the game mechanics, due to how limiting it can be.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I would disagree, but the point of disagreement may be a matter of semantics.</p><p> </p><p> I have no trouble thinking of periods in various puroresu promotions where there were no heels. AJW in the mid 90's, after the break up of Jungle Jack and before Las Cachorrus Orientales. AJPW in periods of the 90s. I don't consider rivalries to be face/heel. Yamada/Toyota was a red hot feud but they both were popular faces and that never changed. Most of Kawada-Misawa to me was a rivalry between the two best wrestlers in the company. When Kawada finally beat Misawa for the title there were people jumping up and down and running along the aisles cheering because the underdog had won. JWP practically never uses heels. There's also a difference in the face/heel dynamic in puroresu. Heels are a small percentage of the total number of wrestlers. Most wrestlers are "faces" because wrestling is a sport. Sports teams don't need to be faces or heels to compete with each other, neither do wrestlers.</p><p> </p><p> For gimmicks it's really a matter of what you consider a gimmick. I don't consider having a distinct personality a gimmick. When I think of gimmicks I think of Raven (Cult Leader), Steve Austin (Redneck Rebel), Hulk Hogan (Real American), WCW Chris Jericho (Delusional Egotist), etc. But like alot of things in wrestling YMMV:)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic Heel 104 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Shouldn't personalities be represented somehow in game, though? (And I don't think that what's going on in NJPW is really just personalities, nor is stuff like "Kobashi, the guy with all of the spirit") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinsuke Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I would say you could change the product to something more Traditional-based and just use realistic type gimmicks to represent that if you don't want to just imagine it. Today's New Japan product would by more like "Key: Traditional, Medium: Modern & Realistic" anyways as opposed to the straight Puroresu products as they are defined in TEW. Personally, I just write down whatever personality traits my workers should show in the ring in their profile texts and play without having to worry about Gimmick and Disposition in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lo-Drew Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 <p>If you watch the BHOTWG product to have gimmicks an emphasis it has to be like this</p><p> </p><p> Key: Traditional</p><p> Heavy: Modern, Mainstream*</p><p> Medium: Realism, Pure</p><p> </p><p> *If anyone cares, if you bump Mainstream to heavy, the young lion system goes away as well and match intensity would be reduced to 40%, which is a 35% decrease of the current setting, which is at 75%</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 <p>You can still run gimmicks in the default BHOTWG, but I tend to stick to more realistic ones. I think I did comic book Villain for Black Cobra II and Optimus II</p><p> </p><p> I stick to mostly cocky, wholesome, legit, and realistic gimmicks and all have gotten fairly good grades.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernalmiko Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 <span style="color:#4B0082;"><span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS';">There are alot of ways to look at gimmicks in TEW, so my view is definitely not the only way. Gimmicks change over time while personalities don't change as much. Misawa, Kawada, Chono, Hashimoto once they passed their young lion period changed very little in personality or persona. Keiji Muto is an exception because he had an alter ego. Iizuka clearly did make a change now that he's toward the end of his career when he switched to Psychopath. So at least I'd turn off gimmick decay. Once a wrestler's persona is established it's rare to see a major change.</span></span> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSc Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 My feeling is a lot of the major puroresu guys in the more traditional promotions don't truly have a gimmick in the way we think about it. Kawada (after a he made his name) was always Kawada. He was gonna beat Misawa, be better than Misawa and sell his ass off in the process. If anything, he maybe got a little more grumpy as he got older. Misawa was always the level-headed, never-say-die, come-back-from-anything man to beat. Kobashi was always a REAL MAN! I DARE you to doubt his burning desire to prove how much of a man he is. And Taue just wants to chokeslam you. That's all. He doesn't care where, or what he has to do to get it. That was who they were, probably not just as wrestlers, and that was also their gimmick. It was such an essential part of what they did in the ring that it drove their psychology during the matches to the point where not a whole lot else came into it. So I tend to disagree with the need for ever-changing gimmicks in traditional puroresu. I think that in that style of wrestling, once the wrestler's personality starts to show through the work, that becomes their gimmick and stays that way until they retire. At least that seems to me how the Japanese fans react to wrestlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lo-Drew Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 For BHOTWG players, I've always wanted to ask this. What do you guys do with Sensational Dragon? Clearly he's a prodigy and the star of the Jr. division, but do you guys ever think about elevating him further. I do it every BHOWTG game I do and although I never have him win the World title, he's always a perennial challenger. Kinda like how Devitt was pushed in NJPW last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitarzu Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Lo-Drew" data-cite="Lo-Drew" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="37073" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>For BHOTWG players, I've always wanted to ask this. What do you guys do with Sensational Dragon? Clearly he's a prodigy and the star of the Jr. division, but do you guys ever think about elevating him further. I do it every BHOWTG game I do and although I never have him win the World title, he's always a perennial challenger. Kinda like how Devitt was pushed in NJPW last year.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Let him win the King Of Fighters belt, proving juniors can beat heavyweights.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk1665 Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Lo-Drew" data-cite="Lo-Drew" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="37073" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>For BHOTWG players, I've always wanted to ask this. What do you guys do with Sensational Dragon? Clearly he's a prodigy and the star of the Jr. division, but do you guys ever think about elevating him further. I do it every BHOWTG game I do and although I never have him win the World title, he's always a perennial challenger. Kinda like how Devitt was pushed in NJPW last year.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It would depend on how you view booking. If you stick to real world thinking, and use NJPW as a reference, then he'd never win the top title. No junior-heavyweight has won the IWGP Heavyweight or junior team won the IWGP Tag. If he were to say put on the way to become a middleweight? No problem then giving him the belt.</p><p> </p><p> But a more modern way of thinking would be that weight really doesn't matter, and the best guy should be champion, but that's typically been a staple of promotions in need of stars like NOAH, not stable promotions like NJPW.</p><p> </p><p> I typically side with the traditionalist view. If the junior will bulk up, then great, otherwise keep him in the junior division or create/give him a secondary title to run around with.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lo-Drew Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 That's how I view it. One game I had him turn on his unit and form his own due to becomign ultra egotistical(behind his usual arrogance). I always had him challenge the top guys and win half of the times but he was definitely a top guy. Interesting enough if you wanted Sensational Dragon to bulk up, you would have to go to the editor because his maximum weight limit is lightweight. Ironically enough, you can convince him to bulk down to a small Wrestler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernalmiko Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 <span style="color:#4B0082;">I tend to keep the divide between heavies and juniors. If the divide is not enforced, what's the point of a junior division? But wrestlers can graduate from the juniors. And Tatsumi Fujinami was very successful as both a junior and heavy, but his weight barely changed. He won the major titles are both junior and then heavy. </span> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mootinie Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Infernalmiko" data-cite="Infernalmiko" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="37073" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><span style="color:#4B0082;">I tend to keep the divide between heavies and juniors. If the divide is not enforced, what's the point of a junior division? But wrestlers can graduate from the juniors. And Tatsumi Fujinami was very successful as both a junior and heavy, but his weight barely changed. He won the major titles are both junior and then heavy. </span></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah, as long as it's believable it doesn't really make a difference.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionhart Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 <p>I often tried to play with a puro touring company but I've never gone too far.</p><p> </p><p> My main problem is that I don't really know how to book show and compose roster for that kind of company. So I would like to ask all of you some questions :</p><p> </p><p> - Generally, how many show by touring month your company produce ? And how big are they and what are their duration ?</p><p> - How do you book touring wrestlers ? </p><p> - Do you often form stables ?</p><p> - Any special advice concerning the "Young Lion" system ?</p><p> </p><p> Thanks for any future answers.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mootinie Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Lionhart" data-cite="Lionhart" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="37073" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>- Generally, how many show by touring month your company produce ? And how big are they and what are their duration ?</div></blockquote><p> As New Japan I've been running 3 per week. They are Huge size and two hours long. They are essentially house shows.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Lionhart" data-cite="Lionhart" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="37073" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>- How do you book touring wrestlers ? </div></blockquote><p> You're obviously going to be running a big event per month, if you bring somebody in you should probably have them fight for a belt. I use PPA's instead of Touring contracts though, I see no point having a wrestler for one tour.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Lionhart" data-cite="Lionhart" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="37073" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>- Do you often form stables ?</div></blockquote><p> All the time, yes. I'm only using the four default stables at the moment, but I always plan to have plenty of stables doing battle. After all, a stable holding every belt is a fearful concept in the eyes of the fans.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Lionhart" data-cite="Lionhart" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="37073" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>- Any special advice concerning the "Young Lion" system ?</div></blockquote><p> I'm not 100% sure. I think the Young Lion system is essentially based on the Respect stat. A Young Lion needs to earn the respect of the fans before him picking up a victory can be seen as believable. So if you bring in an Enhancement Talent Young Lion, he probably shouldn't be picking up pinfalls until his respect stat is built up to around 30-ish or something. </p><p> </p><p> I might be wrong there though.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernalmiko Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Mootinie" data-cite="Mootinie" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="37073" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You're obviously going to be running a big event per month, if you bring somebody in you should probably have them fight for a belt. I use PPA's instead of Touring contracts though, I see no point having a wrestler for one tour.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> <span style="color:#4B0082;">Touring contracts used to let you start fresh with momentum each tour, think they still do.</span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Mootinie" data-cite="Mootinie" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="37073" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>All the time, yes. I'm only using the four default stables at the moment, but I always plan to have plenty of stables doing battle. After all, a stable holding every belt is a fearful concept in the eyes of the fans.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> <span style="color:#4B0082;">Stables are very valuable, I agree. It's an easy way to focus feuds. I always use them.</span></p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Mootinie" data-cite="Mootinie" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="37073" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm not 100% sure. I think the Young Lion system is essentially based on the Respect stat. A Young Lion needs to earn the respect of the fans before him picking up a victory can be seen as believable. So if you bring in an Enhancement Talent Young Lion, he probably shouldn't be picking up pinfalls until his respect stat is built up to around 30-ish or something. <p> </p><p> I might be wrong there though.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> M<span style="color:#4B0082;">ost puroresu promotions don't use the Young Lion system anymore, but NJPW definately does. It's anyone under 25 or with a D+ or less in respect, I believe. Be patient with them, let them build respect before pushing them or the fans will turn on them.</span></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberious Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 <p>I've been playing around with the Japanese C-verse a lot recently, and I find it very enjoyable. There's a lot more parity then in any other area of the c-verse; every company has it's own stars, and due to the loyalty system one promotion can't just sign all the best workers to written deals.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Mootinie" data-cite="Mootinie" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="37073" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You're obviously going to be running a big event per month, if you bring somebody in you should probably have them fight for a belt. I use PPA's instead of Touring contracts though, I see no point having a wrestler for one tour.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Another important aspect of touring contracts is that when the contract is up you can negotiate with them again right away, unlike PPAs where you have to wait 6 months if you let it expire. This is especially useful for Freelancers, though now that Burning Exile is running EX2010 I can't think of any real freelancers in the default data.</p><p> </p><p> Another added use is that if you sign a young unemployed Japanese guy to your roster he'll become loyal to you, so even if you aren't ready to give a guy a permanent spot right away, you can hedge your bets so that down the road he'll remember you gave him a break.</p><p> </p><p> Personally I mainly use touring contracts for lower card guys who are mainly there to lose matches. Every company needs a handful of guys who are there to make your stars look good, and with a touring contract you can bring them back later without the jobber stigma, and the recent fortune penalty where they stop gaining overness due to losing too many times in a row.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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