The Roman Reigns Effect

[Moe Hunter]

There's two different discussions taking place. One in regards to how to replicate the Reigns situation in TEW and the other one which I think is better suited to the dog pound, how popular is Reigns.

 

I think a lot of misunderstanding stems from the above. That's all I'll say on the matter.

You said he drew the largest crowd of all time. I disagreed, since WM is the draw, not him. You said it was irrelevant.

 

How can we talk about how to replicate a real life situation in TEW, without discussing the real life situation?

 

Reigns is absolutely being pushed too high and too fast. His gimmick/s were not getting over with the crowd at all, but they kept him in the Main Event. Kept reminding us that he's their next golden boy.

 

He's objectively less over than Ambrose, despite their efforts to the contrary - including pairing them up to try and get some of Dean's overness to rub off on Roman, then putting him over in the tournament. He's less over than Triple H, who did everything in his power to be the heel and still got cheered every week. People don't want to see Roman as the top guy. How that's anything other than "pushed too high", I don't know.

 

Keeping in mind of course that everything I'm saying relates to before last week's Raw (with his heel turn)... The way I see it, If I were playing TEW and getting the results they got, it would start with "Roman Reigns was used too much on this show", followed by a gimmick change received poorly, then some too-frequent gimmick changes to try and salvage ratings, combined with constant wins to heat up momentum. Perhaps also as I mentioned before his Performance rating as a face could be pretty low.

[AfRoMaN36]

You said he drew the largest crowd of all time. I disagreed, since WM is the draw, not him. You said it was irrelevant.

 

How can we talk about how to replicate a real life situation in TEW, without discussing the real life situation?

 

Reigns is absolutely being pushed too high and too fast. His gimmick/s were not getting over with the crowd at all, but they kept him in the Main Event. Kept reminding us that he's their next golden boy.

 

He's objectively less over than Ambrose, despite their efforts to the contrary - including pairing them up to try and get some of Dean's overness to rub off on Roman, then putting him over in the tournament. He's less over than Triple H, who did everything in his power to be the heel and still got cheered every week. People don't want to see Roman as the top guy. How that's anything other than "pushed too high", I don't know.

 

Keeping in mind of course that everything I'm saying relates to before last week's Raw (with his heel turn)... The way I see it, If I were playing TEW and getting the results they got, it would start with "Roman Reigns was used too much on this show", followed by a gimmick change received poorly, then some too-frequent gimmick changes to try and salvage ratings, combined with constant wins to heat up momentum. Perhaps also as I mentioned before his Performance rating as a face could be pretty low.

 

Just... let it go man.

[Remianen]

There's two different discussions taking place. One in regards to how to replicate the Reigns situation in TEW and the other one which I think is better suited to the dog pound, how popular is Reigns.

 

I think a lot of misunderstanding stems from the above. That's all I'll say on the matter.

 

You said he drew the largest crowd of all time. I disagreed, since WM is the draw, not him. You said it was irrelevant.

 

Actually, Moe has a point. Isn't there a benefit in TEW to Event Importance? So a 'legendary' event would have its own built-in bonuses? Would those bonuses possibly be heightened attendance? If that's true then there is a case to be made for the event selling more than the main event.

 

Also, with regard to the main event and how Reigns would be depicted in TEW, would he warrant getting the 'negative crowd reaction' penalty on the match as a result of what occurred in reality?

 

On a whole, I think this is one of those situations that you can't depict in TEW in an accurate manner. But overall, I agree with Genadi in that you'd pretty much have to give Reigns a ton of popularity in order for that match to not completely stink up the show, given the skill levels involved. Hunter might have high popularity but he'd also likely have rather high performance skills. You'd need them because Roman probably wouldn't have that level of performance skills so you'd need to Protect him (which gets you dinged for 'booking decisions').

[kingjames]

I am 99% sure there is an attendance bonus related to the show's importance. I was able to pull over 20,000 with a CGC show in the Ontario area for WrestleFestival. I can only pull around 8,000 for the average-importance weekly TV taping if I hold it in the same area.

 

I think this actually does model well the "name value" an event like WrestleMania has, and how it can sell tickets on name value alone.

[SirMichaelJordan]

You said he drew the largest crowd of all time. I disagreed, since WM is the draw, not him. You said it was irrelevant.

 

How can we talk about how to replicate a real life situation in TEW, without discussing the real life situation?

 

Reigns is absolutely being pushed too high and too fast. His gimmick/s were not getting over with the crowd at all, but they kept him in the Main Event. Kept reminding us that he's their next golden boy.

 

He's objectively less over than Ambrose, despite their efforts to the contrary - including pairing them up to try and get some of Dean's overness to rub off on Roman, then putting him over in the tournament. He's less over than Triple H, who did everything in his power to be the heel and still got cheered every week. People don't want to see Roman as the top guy. How that's anything other than "pushed too high", I don't know.

 

Keeping in mind of course that everything I'm saying relates to before last week's Raw (with his heel turn)... The way I see it, If I were playing TEW and getting the results they got, it would start with "Roman Reigns was used too much on this show", followed by a gimmick change received poorly, then some too-frequent gimmick changes to try and salvage ratings, combined with constant wins to heat up momentum. Perhaps also as I mentioned before his Performance rating as a face could be pretty low.

 

Bad booking doesn't mean he still doesn't have the popularity.

 

He's not tanking the show as much as you think he is. He's usually in the mainevent with guys with good gimmick, pop and momentum.

 

His gimmick rating wouldn't give a negative or a bonus.

 

It seem like people confuse being over with crowd cheers. Again Reigns gets the loudest reaction in the company. Not being over is the Ascention not getting any reactions. Hardcore fans cheer who they like and boo who they dislike regardless of heel/face assignment. The fact that fans care enough to give Reigns thunderous boo's says alot. The miz doesn't even generate that reaction when he's heel and the hardcore fans turned on him tears ago.

 

The negative reaction note really doesn't apply. Reigns is not awful and he's not the great khali. Not much top row skills for Reigns but he has good enough brawling which is all he needs in a sports entertainment company. His basics aren't poor its just his pyshcology isn't high enough to mainevent. But that shouldn't stop him from being in the ME (goldberg, Batista) Reigns shouldn't be auto pushed below ME level. Lets not forget he was a menace for the hottest stable in the company. Menace is a fast way to get popular in tew.

[Genadi]

You said he drew the largest crowd of all time. I disagreed, since WM is the draw, not him. You said it was irrelevant.

 

How can we talk about how to replicate a real life situation in TEW, without discussing the real life situation?

 

Reigns is absolutely being pushed too high and too fast. His gimmick/s were not getting over with the crowd at all, but they kept him in the Main Event. Kept reminding us that he's their next golden boy.

 

He's objectively less over than Ambrose, despite their efforts to the contrary - including pairing them up to try and get some of Dean's overness to rub off on Roman, then putting him over in the tournament. He's less over than Triple H, who did everything in his power to be the heel and still got cheered every week. People don't want to see Roman as the top guy. How that's anything other than "pushed too high", I don't know.

 

Keeping in mind of course that everything I'm saying relates to before last week's Raw (with his heel turn)... The way I see it, If I were playing TEW and getting the results they got, it would start with "Roman Reigns was used too much on this show", followed by a gimmick change received poorly, then some too-frequent gimmick changes to try and salvage ratings, combined with constant wins to heat up momentum. Perhaps also as I mentioned before his Performance rating as a face could be pretty low.

 

 

I made a point to say that I believe mania itself is the draw. This was the reason I asked you to re read the thread as you were arguing a point I never made.

 

I replied to the rest of what you wrote, mostly along the lines of what Remi said but you started insulting me and claiming I don't care about others opinions. I'm not about to waste another ten minutes writing for it to be deleted.

 

 

Remi said it well not much else to add and I don't want to go off on yesterday's tangent.

 

 

 

Edit - The first thing I said in my post... The last I will say in this thread

 

Reigns just headlined the biggest companies biggest event of the year, to boot the card drew a record 100k card. I know the argument WWE and WM are the draw and personally agree with it but thinking of it in TEW terms and how it should translate in game sure is interesting.

 

I was more of the view that in TEW he would have (as many have said) high momentum and low pop but now I'm thinking the opposite. It's as if he has B+ popularity with big crowds willing to pay to see him with great merch sales yet his momentum is at (around) C- despite the company piling all of it's resources into pushing him... He has had B+ momentum at times early in his run but every time he cuts a promo nowadays it hits his momentum. Add to that the road agent note "Reigns character is very stale, you should consider turning him" It's like TEW is punishing Reigns momentum as a result of all those factors but his pop still high enough to main event WM.

 

In the last TEW games I've found momentum far harder to master then popularity. It could just be me but I see Reigns as that one worker no matter who I have him dominate etc just won't gain momentum. I'm looking at you Acid.

[Genadi]

Actually, Moe has a point. Isn't there a benefit in TEW to Event Importance? So a 'legendary' event would have its own built-in bonuses? Would those bonuses possibly be heightened attendance? If that's true then there is a case to be made for the event selling more than the main event.

 

 

In 13 it was a boost but not the boost we see in reality with mania. Even set as a legendary event all tn testing we did with it didn't reflect reality. I made a point early on that I believe mania is the draw but even taking that into consideration he's headlined the past two years so to replicate that in TEW high pop is needed

[Moe Hunter]

He drew a record number as I mentioned above, how can he be pushed too high up the card in TEW terms if that's the case? In TEW he is undoubtedly a main eventer.

This is the post I originally responded to. "He drew a record number". He did no such thing, since as I mentioned before, the vast majority of tickets were sold before ANY matches were announced, let alone the main event.

 

I made a point to say that I believe mania itself is the draw. This was the reason I asked you to re read the thread as you were arguing a point I never made.

As above, you did make the point I argued against, but I do see upon rereading that your earlier post did talk about the event being a draw.

 

I replied to the rest of what you wrote, mostly along the lines of what Remi said but you started insulting me and claiming I don't care about others opinions.

Excuse me? I did no such thing. Check my post history. I wasn't even on the forum during the "2 pages got deleted" fiasco. I believe you have me mistaken for someone else in that regard.

 

It seem like people confuse being over with crowd cheers. Again Reigns gets the loudest reaction in the company. Not being over is the Ascention not getting any reactions. Hardcore fans cheer who they like and boo who they dislike regardless of heel/face assignment. The fact that fans care enough to give Reigns thunderous boo's says alot. The miz doesn't even generate that reaction when he's heel and the hardcore fans turned on him tears ago.

Put The Ascension in back to back Mania main events and you'll hear those same raucous boos. Are you the kind of person who thinks Eva Marie is just a really good heel, and her reactions have nothing to do with the fact that she's almost entirely untalented and shouldn't hold the position she does?

 

Push is a big factor in reactions. If Reigns was ho-humming in the midcard, he wouldn't be drowned out with boos, because a big part of why people boo him is they don't believe he deserves to be at the top of the card. This is a guy who had a total of two singles matches on PPV before Main Eventing Wrestlemania. If he had built his way up organically, he would have been fine.

 

I believe it goes the other way too - Sandow and Ryder for the most part aren't guys that the crowd wants to see in the Main Event, as WWE Champion (Sandow as WHC on Smackdown would have been fine), but their incredibly low positions on the card (or, not on the card at all for long stretches) is well below what they deserve, so crowds react "extra" positively to them.

[Adam Ryland]

This is closed while I put together a panel of experts to try and solve the important question of whether the Roman Reigns discussion in this thread has managed the impossible and actually become more tedious and petty than the one in the WWE thread. Stay tuned: we'll let you know the results when we get them.