The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread

[SanX]

On 5/7/2024 at 7:05 PM, Wrestling Machine said:

Wow, that Jericho vs Shibata was so stupid and embarassing to watch. The Singapore cane shots exchange sitting in the middle of the ring, that ridiculous piñata spot, etc. Who in the blue hell booked that mess?? lol 

I didn't love it, but was able to enjoy it for whatever it was. It feels like Shibata is doing his retirement tour in AEW, and it even felt like satire of his NJPW style. I feel like he would have killed/injured his opponent in Japan if someone tried to do it in his NJPW days. 

[CQI13]

14 hours ago, guyver3 said:

From what I remember it wasn’t so much a botch but and accident resulted from a spot 

Guess Paige wasn't available to feud with Mercedes for retiring her?

I'll reserve judgement until I see more - or in this case anything. Mercedes has done nothing yet. And her one time on commentary (week 2 was it?) was putrid.

[Wrestling Machine]

1 hour ago, SanX said:

It feels like Shibata is doing his retirement tour in AEW, and it even felt like satire of his NJPW style. I feel like he would have killed/injured his opponent in Japan if someone tried to do it in his NJPW days. 

Yeah I can see that, and I can't really blame majority of wrestlers who sign up for AEW late in their careers to take tons of dollars, have a light schedule and no pressure. Go for it!

Still, whosever idea this booking was, I can't imagine how any sane head booker could give his okay for this match on its flagship TV show. I think these hokey semi-comedy spots only satisfy a niche audience which, moreover, AEW already has, and do not help increase the ratings or the audience.

[MightyDavidson]

Well it looks like the Bucks and Perry have cost Eddie Kingston his title at the most recent NJPW show, interfering in what sounded like an amazing match between Kingston and Gabriel Kidd.  An Okada/Kingston feud has promise to be sure, but with the Coattail Riding Crew involved, well that just kills my interest immediately.

[Matt_Black]

What drove me nuts was the promo from Claudio complaining about Eddie. So we might be getting THAT feud again at some point. Remember at Grand Slam, and Claudio said win or lose, that was the LAST time? Turns out that was a big fat lie.

[MightyDavidson]

33 minutes ago, Matt_Black said:

What drove me nuts was the promo from Claudio complaining about Eddie. So we might be getting THAT feud again at some point. Remember at Grand Slam, and Claudio said win or lose, that was the LAST time? Turns out that was a big fat lie.

Being honest, I'd rather see Eddie/Claudio again then watch the Coattail Riding Crew in anything.  It's bad enough that Okada's saddled with them.

[milamber]

Dynamite was good and Collision even better. Copeland matches were my favorites. Rampage was better than expected. Impressive debut for Billington.

Feels like Mox will have to play peacemaker between Danielson & Claudio soon. Triple threat at Wembley or Danielson & Mox vs Claudio & Nigel would be cool.

[Dalton]

On 5/12/2024 at 9:15 PM, Matt_Black said:

What drove me nuts was the promo from Claudio complaining about Eddie. So we might be getting THAT feud again at some point. Remember at Grand Slam, and Claudio said win or lose, that was the LAST time? Turns out that was a big fat lie.

I'm a bit confused with this take. Isn't it good booking that Claudio is upset that Danielson is wrestling in a dangerous match, teaming with Claudio's eternal rival? Isn't this the kind of booking and storytelling that the doomposters in this thread constantly claim they want to see?

It also doesn't mean there will be another Claudio/Kingston feud. It's well-established in kayfabe that Claudio and Kingston will always hate each other. I'm glad they're not ignoring this and insulting the intelligence of the audience.

[Matt_Black]

On 5/15/2024 at 9:34 AM, Dalton said:

I'm a bit confused with this take. Isn't it good booking that Claudio is upset that Danielson is wrestling in a dangerous match, teaming with Claudio's eternal rival? Isn't this the kind of booking and storytelling that the doomposters in this thread constantly claim they want to see?

It also doesn't mean there will be another Claudio/Kingston feud. It's well-established in kayfabe that Claudio and Kingston will always hate each other. I'm glad they're not ignoring this and insulting the intelligence of the audience.

It makes Claudio look petty and dishonest, which is poor characterization given the finish of Grand Slam and his previous AEW booking in general.

[Mootinie]

18 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

It makes Claudio look petty and dishonest, which is poor characterization given the finish of Grand Slam and his previous AEW booking in general.

I don't think Claudio is being petty.

The BCC is about loyalty, it's about exclusivity, it's about bleeding together and forging a bond in combat.

By tagging with Kingston, his nemesis, and by tagging with FTR, BCC's very recent rivals, Danielson is going against the kinship and the brotherhood of the BCC. It wasn't that long ago that Claudio and Mox had a heated rivalry with FTR and I think he's justified in believing Danielson is out of order for breaking bread with them.

He did the adult thing by walking away. Most wrestling bookers would have done a swerve out of nowhere and had Claudio jump Danielson six months later.

[Matt_Black]

5 hours ago, Mootinie said:

I don't think Claudio is being petty.

The BCC is about loyalty, it's about exclusivity, it's about bleeding together and forging a bond in combat.

By tagging with Kingston, his nemesis, and by tagging with FTR, BCC's very recent rivals, Danielson is going against the kinship and the brotherhood of the BCC. It wasn't that long ago that Claudio and Mox had a heated rivalry with FTR and I think he's justified in believing Danielson is out of order for breaking bread with them.

He did the adult thing by walking away. Most wrestling bookers would have done a swerve out of nowhere and had Claudio jump Danielson six months later.

How is that ANY different than when the BCC teamed with former rivals PAC and Takeshita for last year's Blood & Guts?

[Dalton]

22 minutes ago, Matt_Black said:

How is that ANY different than when the BCC teamed with former rivals PAC and Takeshita for last year's Blood & Guts?

???

PAC? He had never (and still has never) been in any AEW match with Bryan Danielson. He had never been in any AEW match with Claudio Castagnoli. He hadn't faced Moxley in three and a half years and that while a feud, wasn't a generation-spanding blood feud like the well-established Claudio vs. Kingston rivalry.

Takeshita? While he had matches with Danielson, Moxley, and Claudio, NONE of them were in any direct feud between them. In fact, I believe all three of those matches were face vs. face. Not to mention, Takeshita also teamed with BCC the month before at Forbidden Door.

[Mootinie]

8 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

How is that ANY different than when the BCC teamed with former rivals PAC and Takeshita for last year's Blood & Guts?

I think the primary difference is that three members of the BCC were still teaming together for that match. Neither of three were breaking ranks but Danielson is.

[Wrestling Machine]

Dynamite netted 672,000 viewers and a 0.23 rating in the 18-49 demographic this week, last show with lower viewership was January 2021, you have to go back to October 2021 to find an episode of Dynamite with a lower demo rating.

The downward spiral was already crystal clear, obvious, and predictable, now what do you think would be needed to revitalize AEW?

[MightyDavidson]

3 hours ago, Wrestling Machine said:

Dynamite netted 672,000 viewers and a 0.23 rating in the 18-49 demographic this week, last show with lower viewership was January 2021, you have to go back to October 2021 to find an episode of Dynamite with a lower demo rating.

The downward spiral was already crystal clear, obvious, and predictable, now what do you think would be needed to revitalize AEW?

Better booking would be a good start.  Better storylines that don't run so long would be nice as well.  The snarky wrestling fan side of me wants to put it all at the feet of Perry and the Bucks but they may just be a symptom of the issue rather then the source.

[Wrestling Machine]

First things that comes to mind who I think will attract lots of wrestling fans (me first tbh):
 

1. Hire an actual Booker and make AEW a real business. I'm sorry but Tony Khan is not good at this. That's definitely the biggest problem.
    
2. Treat their stars or potential stars as such, giving them tv time, differentiating them from the rest of the card and avoiding pairing them up with deadweights. They really signed Kazuchika Okada and put him in the new NWO (Never Were Over) group with Bucks and Perry, put Will Ospreay in Callis group, Adam Cole as the leader of the job squad LMAO. Also, have a wrestler you promote as “One of the best wrestlers on the planet” fighting a 15/20-min bout on weekly basis against a lowcarder who has never won a freakin' match in AEW only flattens the whole thing.
    
3. Cut the indie-mindset ultra-competitive well-balanced match formula, stars may struggle against uppercarders or talents to be protected, not against some jobbers on their first appearances on national tv. Also, every match feel the same with no selling, chops trading, suicide dives, crazy kickout, unprotected finishers.
    
4. Stop having pushed wrestlers disappear from shows out of the blue. How many times have we seen someone with an ongoing push disappear for one, two, three weeks? That automatically leads to moving away from the product, there is no reward in following the shows or or grow fond of a wrestler.
    
5. Interesting and well-developed storylines >>> random dream matches for a niche audience!!!!!

 

They have so much talent on the roster, loads of money, and all the momentum in the world to start (majority of fans were dying for an alternative and wanted to give AEW a chance). It's crazy how you combine those things and that's the result.

Edited May 20 by Wrestling Machine

[Big Roguey]

i swear that no storylines point comes up like every week and every week there are actual storylines that are progressed. i’m beginning to think words mean nothing and are just thrown out at random so the same old tired played out debates can be had every week. 

[Wrestling Machine]

25 minutes ago, Big Roguey said:

i swear that no storylines point comes up like every week and every week there are actual storylines that are progressed. i’m beginning to think words mean nothing and are just thrown out at random so the same old tired played out debates can be had every week. 

1. I NEVER said AEW has zero storylines, I pointed out that lots of time we saw random “dream matches” who I think don’t help building a bigger fanbase. I’m beginning to think words mean nothing!

2. One can argue how many storylines in AEW have been successful or well-developed over the last few months

3. If you think AEW storylines are fine and not a problem, what do you think would be needed to revitalize AEW if needed?

[Big Roguey]

I don't watch AEW mostly so if you're expecting answers from me on that then you're not gonna get them. It's not my thing to watch, I've spent most of the last month watching old Toryumon or current Dragongate. This is very much a looking on from the outside observation about what seems to be the points after every Dynamite. If you don't think the product is for you then why are you watching?

[Wrestling Machine]

1 hour ago, Big Roguey said:

This is very much a looking on from the outside observation about what seems to be the points after every Dynamite.

Maybe because it actually is the key discussion point company-wise in The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread? I just ask a question by stating data and facts, as the numbers are going down almost on weekly basis: what do you think would be needed to revitalize AEW?

It's not a trick question LMAO one can choose to take part in the discussion or avoid it, agree or not with others based on personal ideas/thoughts, maybe change his/her own point of view. 

 

1 hour ago, Big Roguey said:

If you don't think the product is for you then why are you watching?

I'm not watching it like before, because I think the product sucks and it drove me off, and that's totally fine. Not everyone has to like the same wrestling style. But see, the focal point is that it's not just me, it's a significant % of people that aren't watching no more and a potential new audience that isn't attract in it. To be successful as a business, maybe their product needs some change? 

[guyver3]

I think the thing is TK doesn’t care about being a successful business he only cares about having great wrestling matches which to him is success. After their next ppv I’m sure he’s going to say they’ve been having great shows and great matches, plus the cagematch ratings say they’re doing great so everything is great. 

[Big Roguey]

I mean if that's the metric he's happy with then I don't understand why it's perpetually a talking point about AEW failing or whatever. Just feels like the discussion is always very circular about what they need to change to appease a vocal minority in discussions online and ultimately no one is ever going to get the answer that they want from it.

There isn't a magic wand that's gonna wave and fix whatever issues people have because group A has a different point of view from group B etc. It's the same anywhere really, my biggest question is why waste the time in your day to come to a thread in a relatively niche wrestling forum to come and try to find the answer each week. I guess coming here means that if you're really determined to fix AEW you can just download Real World Chronicles and book AEW?

[Dalton]

52 minutes ago, guyver3 said:

I think the thing is TK doesn’t care about being a successful business he only cares about having great wrestling matches which to him is success. After their next ppv I’m sure he’s going to say they’ve been having great shows and great matches, plus the cagematch ratings say they’re doing great so everything is great. 

Posts like this are why I love this thread so much. The billionaire wrestling promoter caring more about putting on great wrestling matches than making money is Bad, Actually.

Incredible take. 

Edited May 20 by Dalton

[Wrestling Machine]

@Dalton the Son of a Billionaire wrestling promoter said ratings are the #1 source of fan feedback like a month ago lmaoooo

Evil us wishing to have successful alternatives to WWE 😡 Tony is making a wonderful job with all these dream matches 🌈 and everything is great!

Amazing take.

Edited May 20 by Wrestling Machine

[Wrestling Machine]

27 minutes ago, Big Roguey said:

It's the same anywhere really, my biggest question is why waste the time in your day to come to a thread in a relatively niche wrestling forum to come and try to find the answer each week.

Huh, I must have missed the weekly discussion about how AEW could be improved in the opinion of different users, which I think is the actual point of being active in a discussion thread btw. My bad!