Kamchatka's Logos 2020

[Powerful_Fox]

She's well within her right to take commissions dont get me wrong, I just worry the knock on effects it can have, would someone want commission for a real world mod for example?

 

I think a tip jar or something similar is a cracking idea it let's people show their appreciation and may encourage more modders in general to do bits and pieces.

 

I dont want to say "as long as Kam keeps making free ones then fair enough" as that's not what I was meaning, I'm just a bit worried if the ripple effect it could cause.

[Kamchatka]

Thanks for the responses.

 

To clarify, im not asking people to pay me to use my logos. They will remain uploaded here for free for anyone to use for their games, mods and dynasties as usual. I will continue as i have always done, to make logos and skins of my own volition as inspiration and energy comes to me, and put them up here for people to use.

 

The only difference is that i have not taken custom requests for the last 8 years. I'm just giving people a pathway to hire me as a professional graphic designer for custom work if they so wish. No one has to, i'm not twisting anyone's arm here or pulling up a drawbridge and taking my ball and going home unless unless i see dollars.

 

I can appreciate that the cost is a lot for many people, especially when compared to the cost of the game. I'm not expecting many people to afford it or have the inclination to want to pay for logo design for an indie game they're playing. But adjusted for time it comes out at less than half UK basic minimum wage. If you hired a game designer to make you a new custom wrestling manager simulator game it would not cost the amount you pay for a copy of TEW.

 

People have tried monetising for mods and things for the game in the past and it never really took off for very similar reasons.

 

If this doesn't take off, i'd be completely fine with that.

[The Celt]

With the greatest of respect Kam (I hold your work in the highest regard) I feel charging for logos could set a precedent and lead to a very slippery slope for other logo creators, rednerers or mod makers and take this superb modding community down a route it may not recover from.

 

While I have no idea how much time and effort you clearly put into your work and absolutely admire your talent. I feel charging for logos etc. belongs on sites like fiverr not so much in a modding thread on GDS.

 

I hope this doesnt come across as entitled as I genuinely dont want that to be the case but what makes the GDS modding scene thrive as much as it has is the fact its always been community driven for free by people passionate about the game for other people passionate about the game and has been a driving factor in the TEW series being as popular as it has been.

 

Again, thank you for all your graft in the logos you've made so far, I can I my speak for myself but you've sparked new life into so many of my games by giving them a fresh coat if paint and if it wasnt for your skin, I wouldnt have been able to play the beta of '20.

 

The people who make re-renders already pretty much don't take requests and just go at their leisure. We've heard talk of it "being disrespect to the original render artist" when people ask for re-renders, which first starting happening when some people weren't happy with "the Australia renders" back all the way in TEW10 and it basically carried forward from there.

 

The people who make alts surely know they wouldn't ever get paid for it, and I say that as someone has made alts in the past and probably will in the future. An alt is typically a minor edit done in less than half an hour and doesn't take much thought. Also, Alts are open results, people only do them if they feel like doing them and no specific person is expected to fulfil requests.

 

Mod makers would never ask for money unless it was some kind of donation system like a Patreon, and even then I really don't foresee that ever becoming a thing on GDS. The mods here tend to be passion projects. Mod makers tend not to ask for money unless the mod becomes something they no long really care about but are willing to keep doing if the fans insist on keeping it alive.

 

Kam is only suggesting charges for specific requests/commissions but will continue to make logos free of charge that are of Kam's own interest. This is only specific requests, which for someone at Kam's level means putting as much work in as coming up with an IRL brand, which you won't get for free anywhere. Coming up with a total brand concept can take hours and hours and hours, especially if someone else's vision and not your own. To make a good logo, it takes all the skills of a good graphic designer, and if you're good enough graphic designer to make good logos, you're normally off making them for money, not for free. Graphic design is notorious for having customers who don't want to pay for services. "F*** you, pay me!" is the common refrain of any website/community dedicated to graphic design, and I'm a member of several.

 

If the choice is between paid commissions and no commissions at all, I'd prefer the option to request someone create me a commission which I'll pay them for.

 

Paid commissions are not usual for busy artists, anyone who uses sites like Deviantart would be familiar with that. Once an artist gets to a certain level, they can't just take commissions on no conditions or they'll just keep getting an endless stream of requests. If you've only got limited time, either you just make the stuff you want to make, or you make stuff other people want to see but are compensated for that.

 

This is also all voluntary; no one else is forced to do paid commissions just because Kam is, and even if they did decide to try taking paid commissions, they might be in for a shock about the uptake. Everyone who is happy to make requests but once a monetary value is placed on them, it gets a lot quieter. Again, it's the same deal on Deviantart and other sites that host art.

 

I make mods outside of GDS. I was a Dev of a major, well-known mod for Crusader Kings 2. I also have a small hand in one of the best-known mods for Hearts of Iron 4. For stuff like that, I wouldn't ever expect to be paid. Primary because you're making what you want to make, and not being forced to make someone else's vision. When you make what you feel like making, it's not a chore.

 

Graphic design commissions are very different because you might actually hate the concept in-of-itself, but you still might be willing to do if you were at least compensated for it, even if it feels like a bit of a chore.

 

I'll give an example of another community I'm part of that involves graphic design: Heraldry.

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/heraldry/ is a subreddit dedicated to people making and showing off Coats of Arms. The vast majority of people do it for free. However, those who are really good at it offer paid commissions. People often take them up on this offer. Paid commissions had no real effect on any other aspect of the community. People continued to make free content and there was no dent in the amount of free content made. Everyone didn't suddenly which to a paid model.

 

And, what's more, typically the people who paid for graphic design commissions often share the end result anyway, so everyone gets the benefit of the commissions. So the community is still reaping the rewards.

 

So yeah, I really wouldn't get too worried about a chain reaction just because one singular artist on GDS is offering paid commissions.

 

Edit: There were a few replies while I was writing this up, just for context.

[Questlove]

She's well within her right to take commissions dont get me wrong, I just worry the knock on effects it can have, would someone want commission for a real world mod for example?

 

A commission is literally ordering something to be made in exchange for money, so yeah. If she was only doing paid work from now on then I'd totally get the hesitation but this is more like if someone is releasing certain historical mods but also taking commissions for specific time periods they otherwise wouldn't do.

[PhenomenalPat]

The people who make re-renders already pretty much don't take requests and just go at their leisure. We've heard talk of it "being disrespect to the original render artist" when people ask for re-renders, which first starting happening when some people weren't happy with "the Australia renders" back all the way in TEW10 and it basically carried forward from there.

 

The people who make alts surely know they wouldn't ever get paid for it, and I say that as someone has made alts in the past and probably will in the future. An alt is typically a minor edit done in less than half an hour and does n't take much thought.

 

Mod makers would never ask for money unless it was some kind of donation system like a Patreon, and even then I really don't foresee that ever becoming a thing on GDS. The mods here tend to be passion projects. Mod makers tend not to ask for money unless the mod becomes something they no long really care about but are willing to keep doing if the fans insist on keeping it alive.

 

Kam is only suggesting charges for specific requests/commissions but will continue to make logos free of charge that are of Kam's own interest. This is only specific requests, which for someone at Kam's level means putting as much work in as coming up with an IRL brand, which you won't get for free anywhere. Coming up with a total brand concept can take hours and hours and hours, especially if someone else's vision and not your own. To make a good logo, it takes all the skills of a good graphic designer, and if you're good enough graphic designer to make good logos, you're normally off making them for money, not for free. Graphic design is notorious for having customers who don't want to pay for services. "F*** you, pay me!" is the common refrain of any website/community dedicated to graphic design, and I'm a member of several.

 

If the choice is between paid commissions and no commissions at all, I'd prefer the option to ask for a paid commissions.

 

Paid commissions are not usual for busy artists, anyone who uses sites like Deviantart would be familiar with that. Once an artist gets to a certain level, they can't just take commissions on no conditions or they'll just keep getting an endless stream of requests. If you've only got limited time, either you just make the stuff you want to make, or you make stuff other people want to see but are compensated for that.

 

This is also all voluntary; no one else is forced to do paid commissions just because Kam is, and even if they did decide to try taking paid commissions, they might be in for a shock about the uptake. Everyone who is happy to make requests but once a monetary value is placed on them, it gets a lot quieter. Again, it's the same deal on Deviantart and other sites that host art.

 

I make mods outside of GDS. I was a Dev of a major, well-known mod for Crusader Kings 2. I also have a small hand in one of the best-known mods for Hearts of Iron 4. For stuff like that, I wouldn't ever expect to be paid. Primary because you're making what you want to make, and not being forced to make someone else's vision. When you make what you feel like making, it's not a chore.

 

Graphic design commissions are very different because you might actually hate the concept in-of-itself, but you still might be willing to do if you were at least compensated for it, even if it feels like a bit of a chore.

 

I'll give an example of another community I'm part of that involves graphic design: Heraldry.

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/heraldry/ is a subreddit dedicated to people making and showing off Coats of Arms. The vast majority of people do it for free. However, those who are really good at it offer paid commissions. People often take them up on this offer. Paid commissions had no real effect on any other aspect of the community. People continued to make free content and there was no dent in the amount of free content made. Everyone didn't suddenly which to a paid model.

 

And, what's more, typically the people who paid for graphic design commissions often share the end result anyway, so everyone gets the benefit of the commissions anyway. So the community is still benefiting.

 

So yeah, I really wouldn't get too worried about a chain reaction just because one singular artist on GDS is offering paid commissions.

 

Edit: There were a few replies while I was writing this up, just for context.

 

You said what I meant....just much, much better. 😂

[forlan]

Personally I still wonder whether 15 quid for a logo someone is allowed to use nowhere other then a game is steep

[praguepride]

<p>I mean if you don't want it don't buy it. </p><p> </p><p>

I agree it's a lot of money but consider that you'd be getting a top notch designer to cater to your whims. I've dabbled a bit into renders and it takes time. It can also take a lot of money to buy the tools/fonts/art assets you need.</p><p> </p><p>

Photoshop definitely isn't free <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[PW_Fandom]

<p>Kamchatka's the best logo maker in the community, their* time is valuable and his skill is worth every penny if you require something custom.</p><p> </p><p>

Nobody should have any problem at all with him offering his custom services for pay, if you don't want to pay it nobody is forced to do so, you just do what you always did before... wait for something cool to be posted and use it for free.</p><p> </p><p>

Edit: If Adam was really on the ball he would put an e-shop in the game itself and allow top tier creators of mods and graphics to sell DLC packs for a percentage in the game itself, that's the way all games are going, be glad that this is just for custom work because he really could charge for everything.</p><p> </p><p>

* Was unsure and unfortunately seem to have misgendered, sorry folks.</p>

[Powerful_Fox]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PW_Fandom" data-cite="PW_Fandom" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47703" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Kamchatka's the best logo maker in the community, his time is valuable and his skill is worth every penny if you require something custom.<p> </p><p> Nobody should have any problem at all with him offering his custom services for pay, if you don't want to pay it nobody is forced to do so, you just do what you always did before... wait for something cool to be posted and use it for free.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Her time is no more valuable than anyone else's, that's hugely condescending to all the other guys and girls who put so much effort into the mods they provide to the community.</p><p> With that logic literally anyone who spends time with developing mods has the right to charge. Exactly the point I was making about it being a slippery slope.</p><p> </p><p> Kam, to be fair you made your point about never taking requests and this is a channel that would allow that going forward.</p><p> </p><p> I made my point about it possibly setting a precedent and you have made yours about never taking said requests and it is now an extra option. While I dont agree with the practice of it on GDS where the mods have been by the community for the communtiy for free, I do understand it's the norm in graphic design to charge for requested work which is set to specific requirements.</p><p> </p><p> Best of luck to you with the venture mate.</p>

[WxRobbie]

Anyone who is against Kam offering custom graphics for a fee is crazy. Nothing says Kam has to come on here and upload these amazing graphics for any reason. Kam chooses to do that and being upset that a custom graphic will only come from paying for it is jiust clear show of entitlement.

[Powerful_Fox]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="WxRobbie" data-cite="WxRobbie" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47703" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Anyone who is against Kam offering custom graphics for a fee is crazy. Nothing says Kam has to come on here and upload these amazing graphics for any reason. Kam chooses to do that and being upset that a custom graphic will only come from paying for it is jiust clear show of entitlement.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You've not read any of these points at all then if this is your takeaway from it.</p>

[Kamchatka]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="forlan" data-cite="forlan" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47703" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Personally I still wonder whether 15 quid for a logo someone is allowed to use nowhere other then a game is steep</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> People can use it anywhere they like, just not commercially.</p><p> </p><p> I'm not sure where people would need to use it commercially unless they were a wrestling promoter, wrestling business related website or t-shirt seller?</p>

[Atticus]

I'm bias because I'll always mark out for Kam's work, but 15 bucks (or quid, sorry i don't know how money works) isn't really all that out there for a good logo, regardless of its purpose. Go on Fiverr and that's pretty much the starting rate. Given Kam's caliber, this is a good way for them to take in requests without getting swamped as I recall them getting busy back when it was a free-for-all for requests. And lord knows how pushy some people can get if you take a couple days on a free request. Just look at any of Genadi's mod threads and how often people ask for Summer of Punk It's a good way to make sure User_A doesn't come in here every other day asking for a new company logo.

 

Like praguepride said, if you don't like it, there are other very talented artists here, but honestly, I wouldn't be against some of them putting a price on their work either. In my experience, if you let people know that you are even remotely competent in graphic design, they'll gladly advantage of that. And as The_Celt touched on, if you've ever done graphical work for a niche community for free, you'd realize how true that is. Mods pop up here and there, but some of these graphic threads are/have been active daily with multiple requests knocked out. I'm not well versed in the rerender community, but my basic understanding is that you have to buy some of the models and props? Which means, in theory, they're losing money to work for free? They've literally been doing this for years for free at a financial loss because of their passion for and if anyone was going to ask for commission money, I wouldn't blame them, yet, they haven't and they've had a lot more opportunities than Kam to get on that.

 

And personally, as for mods, I wouldn't mind donating a few bucks to some of the mods I've really gotten a lot of enjoyment from either. Any worries of a "precedent" being set is far-fetched in my opinion. There are plenty of modding communities where commissioned work and non-commissioned work exists, ESPECIALLY in graphical departments. Hell, I get paid for graphical work now, but I still do some stuff for free out of passion.

 

Then again, a union doesn't sound so bad all of a sudden

[Kamchatka]

<p>not to derail a perfectly good series of posts on the topic of art, but...</p><p> </p><p>

</p><div style="text-align:center;"><p><em><span style="font-family:Georgia;">"one shall stand.. one shall fall."</span></em></p><p> </p><p>

<img alt="DOYccPP.jpg" data-src="https://i.imgur.com/DOYccPP.jpg" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

<img alt="OADOBXH.jpg" data-src="https://i.imgur.com/OADOBXH.jpg" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /><img alt="2CIpAoR.jpg" data-src="https://i.imgur.com/2CIpAoR.jpg" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /><img alt="gIgh8PP.jpg" data-src="https://i.imgur.com/gIgh8PP.jpg" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /><img alt="u9M1XLG.jpg" data-src="https://i.imgur.com/u9M1XLG.jpg" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

<img alt="949meYx.jpg" data-src="https://i.imgur.com/949meYx.jpg" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

<img alt="HpSd1Uy.jpg" data-src="https://i.imgur.com/HpSd1Uy.jpg" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p>

<strong><span style="font-family:'Arial Black';"><span style="font-size:24px;"><span style="color:#9932CC;">FEMME</span></span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p>

I really wanted to hit something that feels in line with WOW (Women of Wrestling) but with some He-man / She-Ra / Transformers: The Movie in the mix..</p></div><p></p><p></p>

[PhenomenalPat]

Damn Kam, Forget He-Man, YOU'RE the Master of the Universe. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

[Blake Trask]

Dang, love that.

[Powerful_Fox]

Could well be your best one to date that one Kam, exceptional work.

[dvdWarrior]

<p>Cool to see that we can now commission Kam originals now, it's definitely something I'd think about doing. I do have a few questions springing to mind, (sorry if they've already been discussed/dealt with, I didn't see).</p><p> </p><p>

What do those prices translate to in American money? What would the price look like if someone wanted a TV show made for a logo they got 107 years ago, (way back in the original request thread, I think).</p><p> </p><p>

Just wondering, is all.</p><p> </p><p>

<img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/redface.png.900245280682ef18c5d82399a93c5827.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Atticus]

not to derail a perfectly good series of posts on the topic of art, but...

 

"one shall stand.. one shall fall."

 

 

 

 

FEMME

 

I really wanted to hit something that feels in line with WOW (Women of Wrestling) but with some He-man / She-Ra / Transformers: The Movie in the mix..

 

-chef kiss-.

 

I'm a broken record, but your fonts good god they are so good.

[TheGhost]

Your work is wonderful,

 

And I wanted to drop some sense on the debate about charging for customs...Why not? It is custom for a reason. You the buyer are asking for specific logos, Kam is not charging to use the obviously free ones that are on the first page.

 

You are not being forced to buy anything, if you don't like what is up, I am sure Kam in he/she's spare time will probably add some more free to use graphics.

 

And if modders see this and decide to start charging for their mods, then that is ok too, they are the ones who put the time and effort into making them, and if you have ever decided to try and make a mod (I have), it is a daunting task, and very time consuming.

 

So my suggestion is, if you like Kam's work and wish to have some custom work done, then pay up for the time it takes. Or just be happy with what is being given as free to use, and roll with it.

[PhenomenalPat]

Cool to see that we can now commission Kam originals now, it's definitely something I'd think about doing. I do have a few questions springing to mind, (sorry if they've already been discussed/dealt with, I didn't see).

 

What do those prices translate to in American money? What would the price look like if someone wanted a TV show made for a logo they got 107 years ago, (way back in the original request thread, I think).

 

Just wondering, is all.

 

 

15 Pounds (Quid) translates to about $18.12. I would be curious how payments would be set up though, if it's PayPal for instance, between the regular 5% fee and the International Transaction Fee that paypal charges for out of country transfers, it would likely run ya about $25 to send him the 15 pounds.

[Jomosensual]

not to derail a perfectly good series of posts on the topic of art, but...

 

"one shall stand.. one shall fall."

 

 

 

 

FEMME

 

I really wanted to hit something that feels in line with WOW (Women of Wrestling) but with some He-man / She-Ra / Transformers: The Movie in the mix..

 

I keep thinking I have too many custom promotions in my database but every time I see you made another one I can't help but pick another one up

[Kamchatka]

-chef kiss-.

 

I'm a broken record, but your fonts good god they are so good.

 

This was one of those moments where things start to come together and you can sense its all going to work. Getting to remake stuff custom with illustrator and taking time over it really is a happy place for me.

 

15 Pounds (Quid) translates to about $18.12. I would be curious how payments would be set up though, if it's PayPal for instance, between the regular 5% fee and the International Transaction Fee that paypal charges for out of country transfers, it would likely run ya about $25 to send him the 15 pounds.

 

Can always do an invoice and payment to a bank account.

[Kamchatka]

Just two quick recuts, i very much forgot how close in all the logos are.

 

[Questlove]

not to derail a perfectly good series of posts on the topic of art, but...

 

"one shall stand.. one shall fall."

 

 

 

 

FEMME

 

I really wanted to hit something that feels in line with WOW (Women of Wrestling) but with some He-man / She-Ra / Transformers: The Movie in the mix..

 

This is my favourite one yet and that's saying something, great work