Thoughts on the new perception system?

[Taker4455]

Given that this is one of the biggest changes in 2020, I think it probably deserves its own thread.

 

Have to say, whilst I like the idea of the perception system in theory, it appears to be far too volatile currently. I've had workers dropping two grades after a single defeat. Needs a bit of tweaking in my opinion.

 

What are your thoughts?

[LazarN]

As of for now,I don't really like it,perhaps it will grow on me over time,but I don't see anything wrong with 2016 Push System.

The biggest problem for me is that crowd just turns on everyone who has Unimportant Perception.Wasn't the case in 2016,like you could get that note but only for workers who had a really bad skills.

[Brushfire]

I like it a lot. While I'd ideally like some way of being able to sort people into their own specific divisions myself as well, I like the game telling me how a worker is perceived and automatically sorting this for me.

[Zero]

Doesn't add or takeaway for me. I book what I want just like Vince

[crownsy]

So my first impressions are that I like it, but it's waaaayyyy to volatile. maybe as we figure out how to deal with it that will change but I'll echo people move up and down way to quick.

 

In CWA, i've only run 2 TV shows, and already my Major Stars/Stars/well knowns are shuffling around.

 

I think it's an awesome base, because I do like that it rewards the lower and mid card guys when they get hot, with or without you directly pushing them to the moon. feels like (for an example) what happened with Darby Allin in AEW, he was somewhat known to indy fans coming in but won over the audience super quick with his competitive losses against Cody, Jericho, ect and is precieved as a cornerstone of AEW's younger talent/ upper midcard now.

 

But where it falters is guys with a long track record who you don't just keep super cena booking on. I don't really think Ricky Decolt, for example, would fall from major star to star just from taking a few loses to set up an up and coming "I need my brothers against this numbers game!" storyline I'm planning on running, but that's happened in my first 2 shows.

 

Ricky has to much of a track record for his perception to change around (positive or negative) so quickly, and I'm sure it's the same for other big names.

[Taker4455]

So my first impressions are that I like it, but it's waaaayyyy to volatile. maybe as we figure out how to deal with it that will change but I'll echo people move up and down way to quick.

 

In CWA, i've only run 2 TV shows, and already my Major Stars/Stars/well knowns are shuffling around.

 

I think it's an awesome base, because I do like that it rewards the lower and mid card guys when they get hot, feels like (for an example) what happened with Darby Allin in AEW, he was somewhat known to indy fans coming in but won over the audience super quick and is precieved as a cornerstone of AEW's younger talent now.

 

But where it falters is guys with a long track record who you don't just keep super cena booking on. I don't really think Ricky Decolt, for example, would fall from major star to star just from taking a few loses to set up an up and coming "I need my brothers against this numbers game!" storyline I'm planning on running, but that's happened in my first 2 shows.

 

Ricky has to much of a track record for his perception to change around (positive or negative) so quickly, and I'm sure it's the same for other big names.

 

Yup, agree with all of this. The volatility is a bit ridiculous currently.

[BiggN]

I clearly hadn't read the developer diaries well enough as I was confused as hell as to where the Push system went. I didn't want to ask on the forums, I didn't see anyone else asking so assumed I was being a dumb ass.

 

Overall the system seems fine, but 1/2 my roster is unknown and the other half are stars. Seems a bit weird to me.

[Pjs86]

Big fan as it feels closer to reality - the game tells me what the fans see while I decide how I book. Previously all I really knew was how *I* chose to categorise workers.

 

Also, it is a bit volatile but the IWC feels volatile in reality too, just need to read Reddit or Twitter after a PPV to see people saying how character X or character Y have been ruined or squashed etc.

[crownsy]

Big fan as it feels closer to reality - the game tells me what the fans see while I decide how I book. Previously all I really knew was how *I* chose to categorize workers.

 

Also, it is a bit volatile but the IWC feels volatile in reality too, just need to read Reddit or Twitter after a PPV to see people saying how character X or character Y have been ruined or squashed etc.

 

I'm ok with it being highly volitle for younger, lesser known people. That seems to be working as intended, and I agree with you i like that. The clearest recent example would be the one above i used, with Darby Allin, but you can look at anyone in the lower to mid card of places that a worker comes in, doesn't get rocket strapped, but works so well/ connects so well with the fans that they precieve them different quite quickly

 

However, it needs to be weighted by... i dunno, longevity? star power or something.

 

Because to use a RW example again, I'm CWA and the Decolts start with Major Star/ Star depending on decolt. I'm booking a storyline where the Decolts and the youngest stone are going to team up as a stable to battle the elite, and as part of that Ricky has taken losses two weeks in a row due to thier numbers game.

 

Ricky already dropped.

 

That's ridiculously volatile.

 

In the real world, if say....AJ styles, loses to a few people to set up a storyline, he's not going to suddenly not be perceived as a Major Star by the fans. He's got to much history. Sure, If Vince beat him like a tomato can in squash feuds for 1 or 2 years in the mid card then released him, then maybe I'd buy his perception would drop significantly with the fans.

 

I think it's a very good idea, I just think it needs some tweaking.

[Blackman]

AJ's perception didn't drop one bit after he "lost" 3 times in a row to frickin' Ellsworth, who was obviously a complete unknown at the time, so I don't see how that would be the case in the game.

 

Seriously? Two full grades for a single loss? It's hard to believe that. If you mean regular grades, that was already possible in TEW16. People have tested it. I've yet to actually play the game (booking shows), so I don't know yet.

[crownsy]

AJ's perception didn't drop one bit after he "lost" 3 times in a row to frickin' Ellsworth, who was obviously a complete unknown at the time, so I don't see how that would be the case in the game.

 

Seriously? Two full grades for a single loss? It's hard to believe that. If you mean regular grades, that was already possible in TEW16. People have tested it. I've yet to actually play the game (booking shows), so I don't know yet.

 

He dropped to just star, not 2 levels all the way to Well known.

 

I just think it needs to be weighted, for the reasons you said. There comes a point where people get established with the fans. I really don't think the fans of CWA would change their perception of a Decolt one bit for two storyline losses

 

I love this system for everyone not super established at the top of the card though, makes your lower card and mid card feel alive, since people can catch fire and you need to decide to jump on board or just ride it out

[Irishwhiskey119]

I really like it.

 

As long as it doesn't handicap the AI from pushing low perception talent.

[SirMichaelJordan]

I think people need to understand how it works first.

[Dalton]

<p>I really don't mind it one way or another honestly.</p><p> </p><p>

Maybe someone can answer this question for me though.</p><p> </p><p>

In TEW2016 I very often checked the pushes of everyone by going to the Overview screen and sorting by push. It was nice to see who was at the top as main eventers. In TEW2020, when I sort by push/perception, it includes my nonwrestlers in it as well, rather than throwing them to the bottom like previously. So now when I sort, I'll have my top guys as Major Stars, right next to Road Agents and stuff that are also perceived as Major Stars. It's just an annoyance while trying to plan to see nonwrestlers mixed in with the wrestlers. Is there any way to remove these nonwrestlers from that? I know I can filter them out through Search, but then I'd never see them on my regular roster screen.</p><p> </p><p>

Maybe I'm just nitpicking here though lol</p>

[Donners]

<p>I don't understand it at this point, but hopefully that will come with time.</p><p> </p><p>

It would help if you got notifications (eg a note in the match report) whenever the perception changed.</p>

[Derek B]

<p>Almost every example here isp far of people saying someone has dropped a level cleary hasn't read about what perception is.... it's a fan view of the wrestler's populaity blended with their momentum. Losses hurt both of those things, unless you are protecting them so of course they are losing. A Major Star for a company is (roughly) about 125% of company popularity with neutral momentum, 115% of company popularity with warm momentum 105% of company popularity with hot momentum and so on.... </p><p> </p><p>

Ricky DeColt is a big name, but he's not much bigger than the company he's working for and you're jobbing him out. Don't do that. Protect your stars. We all moan when WWE does things like 50/50 booking because they aren't protecting their stars. Well, it's your job as booker to do that. Ricky DeColt might get his win back down the line and feel like a bigger star down the line but you've done short term damage to him to get there.</p><p> </p><p>

TEW ain't gonna be too easy and Perception is MEANT to be more volatile. It scales relative to your company size, not to others on your roster. So if you have a megastar on top who is your only Major Star, you want to look after them... cos if you don't, you're going to hurt your attendances and make less money. All part of the tough life of being a booker. Far more nuance, far more consequences, for more REALISM! (ew, realism <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> )</p><p> </p><p>

PS: At the highest levels of worker and company popularity perceptions become more absolute. Someone with 80+ popularity would generally always be a Star or higher unless you have somehow murdered their momentum.</p><p> </p><p>

PPS: It does take a bit of getting used to. But I think almost everyone will grow to appreciate just how important it is to manage no matter your companhy size... losing a big star can be ROUGH now, for so many reasons!</p>

[SauceManFresh]

Almost every example here isp far of people saying someone has dropped a level cleary hasn't read about what perception is.... it's a fan view of the wrestler's populaity blended with their momentum. Losses hurt both of those things, unless you are protecting them so of course they are losing. A Major Star for a company is (roughly) about 125% of company popularity with neutral momentum, 115% of company popularity with warm momentum 105% of company popularity with hot momentum and so on....

 

Ricky DeColt is a big name, but he's not much bigger than the company he's working for and you're jobbing him out. Don't do that. Protect your stars. We all moan when WWE does things like 50/50 booking because they aren't protecting their stars. Well, it's your job as booker to do that. Ricky DeColt might get his win back down the line and feel like a bigger star down the line but you've done short term damage to him to get there.

 

TEW ain't gonna be too easy and Perception is MEANT to be more volatile. It scales relative to your company size, not to others on your roster. So if you have a megastar on top who is your only Major Star, you want to look after them... cos if you don't, you're going to hurt your attendances and make less money. All part of the tough life of being a booker. Far more nuance, far more consequences, for more REALISM! (ew, realism )

 

PS: At the highest levels of worker and company popularity perceptions become more absolute. Someone with 80+ popularity would generally always be a Star or higher unless you have somehow murdered their momentum.

 

PPS: It does take a bit of getting used to. But I think almost everyone will grow to appreciate just how important it is to manage no matter your companhy size... losing a big star can be ROUGH now, for so many reasons!

 

I understand completely what you are saying here, but this is something I just experienced in my SWF that doesn't make sense. At the start of the save Scythe has White Hot momentum and is considered a major star. The main event of my first Supreme TV was Scythe and Randy defeating Rocky Golden and Angry Gilmore in an 82 ranked tag match followed by an 81 rated angle with him being successful. After that 1 show he dropped down to Star and now has Warm momentum. I don't get how he drops a level and has his momentum have such a drastic drop after a win and a successful angle, which are both rated higher than his overall and the pop of the company.

[Derek B]

I understand completely what you are saying here, but this is something I just experienced in my SWF that doesn't make sense. At the start of the save Scythe has White Hot momentum and is considered a major star. The main event of my first Supreme TV was Scythe and Randy defeating Rocky Golden and Angry Gilmore in an 82 ranked tag match followed by an 81 rated angle with him being successful. After that 1 show he dropped down to Star and now has Warm momentum. I don't get how he drops a level and has his momentum have such a drastic drop after a win and a successful angle, which are both rated higher than his overall and the pop of the company.

 

Okay, THAT looks more like a bug... looks likely linked to his in-ring performance being below his pop and taking a ding. Shouldn't be anywhere near that much though, protective booking like that should be able to carry him more than that. Stick a complete report in the Tech Support forum if you would be so kind. We've been trying to get a better balance for that all along and I swear it's hard to get right... thousands of people tesing it a bit is better than a few people testing it a bit.

[crownsy]

Almost every example here isp far of people saying someone has dropped a level cleary hasn't read about what perception is.... it's a fan view of the wrestler's populaity blended with their momentum. Losses hurt both of those things, unless you are protecting them so of course they are losing. A Major Star for a company is (roughly) about 125% of company popularity with neutral momentum, 115% of company popularity with warm momentum 105% of company popularity with hot momentum and so on....

 

Ricky DeColt is a big name, but he's not much bigger than the company he's working for and you're jobbing him out. Don't do that. Protect your stars. We all moan when WWE does things like 50/50 booking because they aren't protecting their stars. Well, it's your job as booker to do that. Ricky DeColt might get his win back down the line and feel like a bigger star down the line but you've done short term damage to him to get there.

 

TEW ain't gonna be too easy and Perception is MEANT to be more volatile. It scales relative to your company size, not to others on your roster. So if you have a megastar on top who is your only Major Star, you want to look after them... cos if you don't, you're going to hurt your attendances and make less money. All part of the tough life of being a booker. Far more nuance, far more consequences, for more REALISM! (ew, realism )

 

PS: At the highest levels of worker and company popularity perceptions become more absolute. Someone with 80+ popularity would generally always be a Star or higher unless you have somehow murdered their momentum.

 

PPS: It does take a bit of getting used to. But I think almost everyone will grow to appreciate just how important it is to manage no matter your companhy size... losing a big star can be ROUGH now, for so many reasons!

 

How is having Ricky lose two weeks in a row, to outside interference, "jobbing him out?"

 

I think it's kinda basic storytelling. He's the baby face, clearly better, but out numbered by the heels in elite. He will soon go get help and stop losing, this upcoming show in fact.

 

Regardless, Maybe the misconception is what perception is supposed to be among some players, myself included.

 

My impression from the Journal, math aside and thank you for the above, was that perception is fluid, but is basically how fans see the worker. Thus, workers who are new to the company, on hot streaks, cold streaks, in hot fueds, ect cold improve or lose their standing. I get all that

 

I just also assumed that their overall popularity would control it more than immediate results, because when I think thats what people think about when we talk perception.

 

Again, if say....Mustafi Ali has one hot moment, then booking buries him, the fans lose intrest. i get that, because he doesn't have years and years at the top of the card, so that should change quickly, and even often early in his career depending on his booking.

 

But if you are talking a major star in a company, such as Ricky Decolt, that the company has been built around for years, then no, I don't think a loss or two should tank them down. Nor really do I think wins over and over should bump it up quickly.

 

At some point, perception becomes fixed when you are talking about a worker thats been around forever in the M/E unless you have large runs of poor booking. That, to quote you, is realism (ew)

 

I think its a great idea, and as I said I'm enjoying it because it keeps the mid card churning along. but I don't really think the complaints that it swings to rapidly at the top of the card are unwarranted.

 

My suggestion would be that in the equation above, Popularity would start to be weighted more as it climbed up towards 100, thus perception of his role becoming more fixed with fans as his popularity rises in the region, but still impacted by momentum so that overall crappy booking would lower that popularity over time, thus having it matter less (losing the fans) while also snowballing if the momentum combined with losses in overall popularity of the worker stayed down long term so rapid falls from grace are still possible with bad booking of legacy stars.

[GiantChair]

I like it but 2 months is a limit on how much you can really see the mechanics of it over time.

 

Its like alot of things it will take time to understand it fully but i can see it being better in the long run.

[Irishwhiskey119]

How is having Ricky lose two weeks in a row, to outside interference, "jobbing him out?"

 

I think it's kinda basic storytelling. He's the baby face, clearly better, but out numbered by the heels in elite. He will soon go get help and stop losing, this upcoming show in fact.

 

Regardless, Maybe the misconception is what perception is supposed to be among some players, myself included.

 

My impression from the Journal, math aside and thank you for the above, was that perception is fluid, but is basically how fans see the worker. Thus, workers who are new to the company, on hot streaks, cold streaks, in hot fueds, ect cold improve or lose their standing. I get all that

 

I just also assumed that their overall popularity would control it more than immediate results, because when I think thats what people think about when we talk perception.

 

Again, if say....Mustafi Ali has one hot moment, then booking buries him, the fans lose intrest. i get that, because he doesn't have years and years at the top of the card, so that should change quickly, and even often early in his career depending on his booking.

 

But if you are talking a major star in a company, such as Ricky Decolt, that the company has been built around for years, then no, I don't think a loss or two should tank them down. Nor really do I think wins over and over should bump it up quickly.

 

At some point, perception becomes fixed when you are talking about a worker thats been around forever in the M/E unless you have large runs of poor booking. That, to quote you, is realism (ew)

 

I think its a great idea, and as I said I'm enjoying it because it keeps the mid card churning along. but I don't really think the complaints that it swings to rapidly at the top of the card are unwarranted.

 

My suggestion would be that in the equation above, Popularity would start to be weighted more as it climbed up towards 100, thus perception of his role becoming more fixed with fans as his popularity rises in the region, but still impacted by momentum so that overall crappy booking would lower that popularity over time, thus having it matter less (losing the fans) while also snowballing if the momentum combined with losses in overall popularity of the worker stayed down long term so rapid falls from grace are still possible with bad booking of legacy stars.

 

Good post Clownsy

 

I don't have anything of value to add to it but i do think that how the game has handled overness for established stars and how far they drop or rate of drop or their re-increase for comebacks is something that could use some rate fixing.

[Cyhort]

I'm on the fence. I like the idea, but in practice I don't know. I'm using a Fast and Furious product for my custom promotion and the product notes say matches under 15 minutes get penalized, but when I book guys with "unimportant" perception in 15 minute matches the road agent notes say the fans don't like guys they don't care about in long matches. Am I just supposed to put on 8 minute matches and have the fans not like them because they're too short? Will that end up getting my young talent over?

 

I also don't like how everyone you can hire, even if they've already signed with another company, starts out at unimportant perception at the beginning of the game. That's very unrealistic. Especially for guys who are established workers in their previous companies. That's like signing the Bucks to AEW and the crowd having no idea who they are. As the game goes on, will there be any bleed over from stars who are hot in another promotion? Is this just the default state of the game at the start? Or do I have to start from scratch every time I hire a new worker?

 

I get how it's supposed to work based on the handbook entry, but it seems off to me. *shrugs* Maybe it's one of those things I need to see over a long period of time after the full game comes out.