I Attempt to Explain Perception

[ThePastor]

<p>At the end of the day this game is just a booking simulator and most people just want to fantasy book.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>

The game this time has around has now told us even more ways we MUST play the game or it’s considered gamey(it’s actually completely realistic to how wrestling has worked for decades) .</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>

So if we want to debut a Japanese phenom who is not popular in the US in a 15-20 minute epic or even replicate something like Cody vs Darby Allins famous time limit draw that put Darby on the path to stardom, we must now eat an arbitrary penalty to our show grade at minimum(I also believe the individual worker has reduced popularity gain but not positive).</p><p> </p><p>

The only difference is it was basically hard coded into the game that we can’t work around this stuff anymore. It’s such an odd decision.</p>

[TeemuFoundation]

<p>I'm the guy who just wants to fantasy book to be tbh. I've never been interested in TEW in any kind of stressful, challenging endeavor played for its difficulty. People can call me a filthy casual and make fun of me, but they can also try and beat my 4th place time in Mega Man X 100% speedrunning. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

(I kid.)</p>

[Poputt]

It was always going to be a problem, the way it’s handled never made any sense.

 

 

Wrestling is not that rigid.

 

The Undertaker debut with almost no popularity nationally in a big 5 on 5 Survivor Series match with a lot of the top guys in the company.

 

No “worker is overused” nonsense and big penalties to show grade.

 

 

If anything using an unpopular worker will receive largely reduced grades unless he has the stats to back it up, so what is the need for arbitrary penalties ?

 

I agree with that. That was fixed a little in 2016 when workers would automatically snap to a minimum Popularity if booked by decent to large sized promotions. That was a compromise of a "Big debut" idea that people have been suggesting on and off for years, you know, the idea of someone like an Undertaker or Kane skyrocketing in popularity for a brief moment. My guess is that it was never added because it would be too easy to exploit using save scumming or whatever.

 

I'm the guy who just wants to fantasy book to be tbh. I've never been interested in TEW in any kind of stressful, challenging endeavor played for its difficulty. People can call me a filthy casual and make fun of me, but they can also try and beat my 4th place time in Mega Man X 100% speedrunning.

 

(I kid.)

 

I mean the people who claim to want challenge and stuff are often the same who used the TCW Marat strategy oddly enough.

[shawn michaels]

 

 

Wrestling is not that rigid.

 

The Undertaker debut with almost no popularity nationally in a big 5 on 5 Survivor Series match with a lot of the top guys in the company.

 

No “worker is overused” nonsense and big penalties to show grade.

 

 

 

The Undertaker is a successful debut story. There are bad ones as well. But even Taker's debut would be penalised for his unknown factor. A lot of people were like "What? Who?" Which means a dent on the segment compared to if it was a very well known star. Penalties being added doesn't mean it is a bad segment. If you think the game is giving them excessively do a suggestion or tech support post. Doesn't mean it is perception's fault or that it is an inaccurate system or fully broken.

[Poputt]

I guess, but a successful debut is a sign of a good show, which should make the show grade better, not hamper it.

[ThePastor]

Okay. I haven't really dove into booking that much in 2020 yet, just messed with the editor. I'm waiting to see if a few things change in 2020 to see if I make the change from 2016 to 2020. But that sounds like it's a problem elsewhere in the game, not with the perception feature itself. I get what you're saying, though.

 

The Undertaker is a successful debut story. There are bad ones as well. But even Taker's debut would be penalised for his unknown factor. A lot of people were like "What? Who?" Which means a dent on the segment compared to if it was a very well known star. Penalties being added doesn't mean it is a bad segment. If you think the game is giving them excessively do a suggestion or tech support post. Doesn't mean it is perception's fault of that it is an inaccurate system or fully broken.

 

 

It penalizes your show rating not the segment.

 

Totally different beast.

 

 

 

What it does exactly is it looks at the grade of the show, say it’s an 85 then goes “BUT WAIT, this Undertaker fella was used in a 15 minute match and the fans don’t know him yet!” then docks your show grade to say.. an 82 or an 81.

 

 

 

I lost about 6 points off my last show in India for similar reasons, only it can’t be helped as I only have 1 Major Star in the entire company.

[Poputt]

It does both. Even worse.

[ThePastor]

Also the edge cases in TEW where you would intentionally overpush guys made perfect sense.

 

 

If you have a rookie like say Dreadnaught, rookies almost always have lower stats than veterans, so hotshotting them up the card was always going to be hard, especially in TEW2020 which added the experience stat and made youth prospects even weaker(this was a good change) as they get penalties for being inexperienced in all of their segments.

 

So it already intuitively made sense not to overpush them even if they were an obvious future phenom. For example in my current game a Junior Heavyweight spawned with B+ SQ As in athleticism and stamina and As in Basic and selling, he’s a sure fire thing but he still starts with like 5 Psychology so I am not in a rush to send him up the card.

 

Now on the other hand if I brought in international superstar Rahmel Goode to my company who has amazing camera presence and is a big star in AUS but unknown in US, I would almost always overpush him so that I can get him up the card as quickly as possible because he’s is already older and I want to utilize him before he gets past his prime.

 

So normally I would just send him to default as an Upper Midcarder and put him in high profile segments.

 

In the new game it won’t work at all and the penalties will harm my shows and stagnate his growth.

[ColossusPT]

Also the edge cases in TEW where you would intentionally overpush guys made perfect sense.

 

 

If you have a rookie like say Dreadnaught, rookies almost always have lower stats than veterans, so hotshotting them up the card was always going to be hard, especially in TEW2020 which added the experience stat and made youth prospects even weaker(this was a good change) as they get penalties for being inexperienced in all of their segments.

 

So it already intuitively made sense not to overpush them even if they were an obvious future phenom. For example in my current game a Junior Heavyweight spawned with B+ SQ As in athleticism and stamina and As in Basic and selling, he’s a sure fire thing but he still starts with like 5 Psychology so I am not in a rush to send him up the card.

 

Now on the other hand if I brought in international superstar Rahmel Goode to my company who has amazing camera presence and is a big star in AUS but unknown in US, I would almost always overpush him so that I can get him up the card as quickly as possible because he’s is already older and I want to utilize him before he gets past his prime.

 

So normally I would just send him to default as an Upper Midcarder and put him in high profile segments.

 

In the new game it won’t work at all and the penalties will harm my shows and stagnate his growth.

You can just get rid of the penalties on the prefences

[ShaunGBD]

I agree with that. That was fixed a little in 2016 when workers would automatically snap to a minimum Popularity if booked by decent to large sized promotions. That was a compromise of a "Big debut" idea that people have been suggesting on and off for years, you know, the idea of someone like an Undertaker or Kane skyrocketing in popularity for a brief moment. My guess is that it was never added because it would be too easy to exploit using save scumming or whatever.

 

 

 

I mean the people who claim to want challenge and stuff are often the same who used the TCW Marat strategy oddly enough.

 

What's the marat strategy?

[Morti]

The perception system just seems way more organic, that is why I like it at least.

[Jaded]

What's the marat strategy?

 

Sign Marat to win National battles.

[tryker2710]

Okay apart from the fact you can turn off overuse penalties in the preferences (Did people not read the handbook ) I'm going to argue a different case in favour of the perception system.

 

Taking the specific angle of the Cody/Darby Allin draw I'm going to say that actually on it's own justifies the perception feature.

 

Cody Rhodes, coming off the biggest wave of momentum of his life ended up dragging unknown Darby Allin to a hot (not great and there is a difference) match. Now in TEW 2016 this would have resulted in Darby gaining what? 1 point in overness? If even? And would have hurt Cody way more than it helped him.

 

But within the specific context of our perception (get it) he jumped up to being a recognisable member of the AEW roster. People also have selective memory when it comes to Darby, he did wrestle between the Cody and Jericho matches, and what were they? Well a throwaway six-man tag match and then an opener against Jimmy Havoc.

 

So even the great Darby Allin was still in that auto-push as opener territory after the Cody match and it was OUR perceptions that propelled him up the card.

[awesomenessofme1]

What's the marat strategy?

 

Back in 2016, Marat Kokhlov started unemployed and he had such great SQ and pop that whichever one of the big three that signed him would pretty much insta-win national battles.

[ThePastor]

Okay apart from the fact you can turn off overuse penalties in the preferences (Did people not read the handbook ) I'm going to argue a different case in favour of the perception system.

 

Taking the specific angle of the Cody/Darby Allin draw I'm going to say that actually on it's own justifies the perception feature.

 

Cody Rhodes, coming off the biggest wave of momentum of his life ended up dragging unknown Darby Allin to a hot (not great and there is a difference) match. Now in TEW 2016 this would have resulted in Darby gaining what? 1 point in overness? If even? And would have hurt Cody way more than it helped him.

 

But within the specific context of our perception (get it) he jumped up to being a recognisable member of the AEW roster. People also have selective memory when it comes to Darby, he did wrestle between the Cody and Jericho matches, and what were they? Well a throwaway six-man tag match and then an opener against Jimmy Havoc.

 

So even the great Darby Allin was still in that auto-push as opener territory after the Cody match and it was OUR perceptions that propelled him up the card.

 

 

 

Honestly if you take off the penalties which are a default setting then the entire system has no meaning mechanically and really doesn’t matter anymore.

 

 

I’d argue if you took of the penalties it basically just makes the game more streamlined in that you no longer have to auto push and deal with morale complaints,

 

That being said, the penalties are as stated a default setting, so it does make sense to talk about the game within respects to its default settings.

[PFElton]

Marvelously said. I completely agree.

[Historian]

The understanding of the perception system is slightly flawed. It is not a raw number of popularity. It is popularity + how they are used. I've booked a bunch of shows in TEW2020.

 

Here is an example from something I did playing as TCW. I signed Dreadnought -- who was completely unknown to the audience and started at the lowest perception. I smashed him over and within a few shows he was seen as a star -- because that's how wrestling works.

 

Yes, The Undertaker was able to be debuted in a 5on5 match with a bunch of other name talent, but he was also smashed per to be made a star. That's how WWE does things. Bray Wyatt was given a bunch of promo vignettes to get him per before he debuted and then he was protected and smashed over to establish him as a star. If he had been immediately brought onto the roster cold and put in the main event the fans would not have immediately accepted it because they wouldn't have known who he is.

 

The perception system works very well across the board, in my opinion. I understand the people who want the old pushes at least for helping them organize their roster -- everyone's brain works differently and I have no opinion on how people want to organize their roster, but the perception system responds very well to how someone is used combined with their popularity and star quality and all the other metrics and for me, I like seeing who is perceived as a major star, that lets me know who I've booked strongly and who is particularly popular with my roster.

[shawn michaels]

It penalizes your show rating not the segment.

 

Totally different beast.

 

 

 

What it does exactly is it looks at the grade of the show, say it’s an 85 then goes “BUT WAIT, this Undertaker fella was used in a 15 minute match and the fans don’t know him yet!” then docks your show grade to say.. an 82 or an 81.

 

 

 

I lost about 6 points off my last show in India for similar reasons, only it can’t be helped as I only have 1 Major Star in the entire company.

 

 

85 to 81 based on a good appearance from an unknown dude seems actually very suitable imo. You are forgetting that loss would be minor or non existing if the segment had a super over established star. You are looking at the penalty in this case as a mere loss and at the final grade as simply a punishment when it is simply a fluid balancing mechanism, if those are the average numbers for it.

[Dartell]

I like the perception system a lot better than the old push system. It's cool to see if my booking strategy is working. I can have multiple major stars and it's not some table I have to stick too.

 

I would want a quicker way to organize my stars. The booking screen does this well. I can right-click on "stars" for example and instantly see "stars" only. I wish this was added some way to the roster screen and the angle booking screen.

[danyp92]

The understanding of the perception system is slightly flawed. It is not a raw number of popularity. It is popularity + how they are used. I've booked a bunch of shows in TEW2020.

 

Here is an example from something I did playing as TCW. I signed Dreadnought -- who was completely unknown to the audience and started at the lowest perception. I smashed him over and within a few shows he was seen as a star -- because that's how wrestling works.

 

Yes, The Undertaker was able to be debuted in a 5on5 match with a bunch of other name talent, but he was also smashed per to be made a star. That's how WWE does things. Bray Wyatt was given a bunch of promo vignettes to get him per before he debuted and then he was protected and smashed over to establish him as a star. If he had been immediately brought onto the roster cold and put in the main event the fans would not have immediately accepted it because they wouldn't have known who he is.

 

The perception system works very well across the board, in my opinion. I understand the people who want the old pushes at least for helping them organize their roster -- everyone's brain works differently and I have no opinion on how people want to organize their roster, but the perception system responds very well to how someone is used combined with their popularity and star quality and all the other metrics and for me, I like seeing who is perceived as a major star, that lets me know who I've booked strongly and who is particularly popular with my roster.

Very curious about how exactly you booked him to get that results.

[Poputt]

I get where you're coming from but this isn't how a show works. Introducing a new character that is accepted by the fans won't detract from the show rating just because they're new. Worker popularity is still factored into match ratings it's right there in the Product section.

[Historian]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="danyp92" data-cite="danyp92" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47956" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Very curious about how exactly you booked him to get that results.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Shorter matches with people at least well known. Decisive wins. A couple of dominant wins over recognisable people because he has an attribute where he does good in squash matches. Then a match with a star and a win there.</p>

[danyp92]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Historian" data-cite="Historian" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47956" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Shorter matches with people at least well known. Decisive wins. A couple of dominant wins over recognisable people because he has an attribute where he does good in squash matches. Then a match with a star and a win there.</div></blockquote><p> Thank you. I probably need to try this out for myself.</p>

[Poputt]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Historian" data-cite="Historian" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47956" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Shorter matches with people at least well known. Decisive wins. A couple of dominant wins over recognisable people because he has an attribute where he does good in squash matches. Then a match with a star and a win there.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> How much did the worker's Pop go up?</p>

[ThePastor]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="shawn michaels" data-cite="shawn michaels" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47956" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>85 to 81 based on a good appearance from an unknown dude seems actually very suitable imo. You are forgetting that loss would be minor or non existing if the segment had a super over established star. You are looking at the penalty in this case as a mere loss and at the final grade as simply a punishment when it is simply a fluid balancing mechanism, if those are the average numbers for it.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> Given that match wasn’t even the main event, docking the show 4 points for one case of overuse is indeed bizarre.</p>