I Attempt to Explain Perception

[Historian]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Poputt" data-cite="Poputt" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47956" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>How much did the worker's Pop go up?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I didn't track that number specifically in the save because I'm not, as a player, specifically interested in raw popularity score as much as I am how my audience views you.</p>

[ThePastor]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Historian" data-cite="Historian" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47956" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Shorter matches with people at least well known. Decisive wins. A couple of dominant wins over recognisable people because he has an attribute where he does good in squash matches. Then a match with a star and a win there.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> You are booking a squash character in an extremely uh let’s use the word throwback booking style.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> It doesn’t reflect how you would for example get someone over in a modern company like AEW with the so called Wrestling Nerd Nirvana product, which features longer matches and people being made to look like a big deal based on ring skills.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> EDIT: The booking style of NJPW seems like an extreme case of this where it’s historical booking style in the last decade would be nearly unviable in TEW2020</p>

[D16NJD16]

So many aspects of TEW are just starting to feel way too esoteric.

[danyp92]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Historian" data-cite="Historian" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47956" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I didn't track that number specifically in the save because I'm not, as a player, specifically interested in raw popularity score as much as I am how my audience views you.</div></blockquote><p> He starts with 0 in many regions and a couple of 3 and 1. Right now what Pop does it have? I kinda like to understand the number side of the game.</p>

[Historian]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ThePastor" data-cite="ThePastor" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47956" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You are booking a squash character in an extremely uh let’s use the word throwback booking style.<p> </p><p> </p><p> It doesn’t reflect how you would for example get someone over in a modern company like AEW with the so called Wrestling Nerd Nirvana product, which features longer matches and people being made to look like a big deal based on ring skills.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> EDIT: The booking style of NJPW seems like an extreme case of this where it’s historical booking style in the last decade would be nearly unviable in TEW2020</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> But in a Wrestling Nerd Nirvana product, with performance > popularity, you'll get dinged initially because your audience won't no who the guy is, but book them strongly, even in losses, and in a match or two that's gone -- which isn't unrealistic.</p><p> </p><p> In AEW now, if they were to sign a complete unknown who hasn't been on their TV before (or have any national TV exposure) and put him in the ring for 20 minutes in a singles match, the audience, especially at the beginning is going to go 'ehhh' and the match would suffer. </p><p> </p><p> In reality, pro wrestling doesn't operate on numbers so it's hard to put it into an algorithm, but the penalty makes sense (in my opinion) for how wrestling has always operated. If you bring in someone cold, the crowd doesn't go for it unless they're booked strongly and then they come around. Guys like The Undertaker were put around talent who people know and put with, initially, a manager that people knew to help get heat and then he got over because he was presented strongly.</p>

[MainOffender]

How can a worker with no star quality be popular, though? And what I meant by arbitrary was, there was no drawback in taking, let's say, an Opener, and giving him a Main Event push for one night on TV because you want him to face your champion in a one-off. You give him the main event push to eliminate the overuse penalty. You'd receive no punishment for this. You'd just autopush him back to his regular spot after the show was over.

 

I think doing this could actually hurt a guy's personality in TEW -- make them egotistical, etc -- so there was SOME penalty. Good analysis overall, though. I really like the new system.

 

You are booking a squash character in an extremely uh let’s use the word throwback booking style.

 

It doesn’t reflect how you would for example get someone over in a modern company like AEW with the so called Wrestling Nerd Nirvana product, which features longer matches and people being made to look like a big deal based on ring skills.

 

EDIT: The booking style of NJPW seems like an extreme case of this where it’s historical booking style in the last decade would be nearly unviable in TEW2020

 

Hmm. AEW has squashes, like, every week? Brodie Lee? Wardlow? Out there squashing dudes. New Japan functions a bit differently with the young lion system (so new guys become known through that) and by incorporating lesser known people into six/eight-man tag matches. I think both styles are viable.

 

I will say I think maybe the penalties for overuse you're experiencing could be toned down, although I haven't seen them myself. I don't think those really illustrate flaws in the Perception system, though. Also, I generally think players need to become more comfortable with getting penalties.

[FlightlessGypsy]

The push system had been around since the beginning. I understand why people are mad but it seems Adam has really made an attempt to cut a piece of fat that was literally unnecessary not to automate. I understand why some people may miss it and I understand why some people think we can have both systems, but now it seems like we will have more breakout stars as everything will be running off of stat maths and not what we think is how things would go down. In my opinion, having favorites to push can make every save feel samey and a streamlined system may be what I need to stop from repeating myself in-game by using winning formulas instinctively and an ability to turn the old system back on would negate everything I've just tried to explain because we all obviously hate change. I'm going to wait until I can play a full first year twice to give my full thoughts.

[FlightlessGypsy]

I think doing this could actually hurt a guy's personality in TEW -- make them egotistical, etc -- so there was SOME penalty. Good analysis overall, though. I really like the new system.

 

 

 

Hmm. AEW has squashes, like, every week? Brodie Lee? Wardlow? Out there squashing dudes. New Japan functions a bit differently with the young lion system (so new guys become known through that) and by incorporating lesser known people into six/eight-man tag matches. I think both styles are viable.

 

I will say I think maybe the penalties for overuse you're experiencing could be toned down, although I haven't seen them myself. I don't think those really illustrate flaws in the Perception system, though. Also, I generally think players need to become more comfortable with getting penalties.

 

Has that not been since they were working with a limited roster? I don't remember seeing a squash until Wardlow's second match which wasn't that long ago, aside from maybe a few Awesome Kong matches from October/November. Could be wrong, my short term month-to-month memory is pretty bad.

[MainOffender]

Has that not been since they were working with a limited roster? I don't remember seeing a squash until Wardlow's second match which wasn't that long ago, aside from maybe a few Awesome Kong matches from October/November. Could be wrong, my short term month-to-month memory is pretty bad.

 

Honestly, I don't watch every week and I'm certainly not taking notes! But I remember squashes from Nyla Rose, Hager, PAC, etc. I went to their site and clicked a random show from November where Cody squashes Matt Knicks. My point is -- the squash match hasn't gone out of style just because AEW also books long matches and is still a completely viable way or getting people over and/or keeping them on-screen. I don't want to derail this convo, though, so no more AEW posts from me!

[TheZies]

Late to the party here, but I agree with the way perception functions.

 

I'd still like a tool to help organize how I am going to use them.

 

There is room on the character detail screen to have a "utilized as" dropdown. Even if it is cosmetic and we're allowed to filter with it. I think it works.

[FlightlessGypsy]

Honestly, I don't watch every week and I'm certainly not taking notes! But I remember squashes from Nyla Rose, Hager, PAC, etc. I went to their site and clicked a random show from November where Cody squashes Matt Knicks. My point is -- the squash match hasn't gone out of style just because AEW also books long matches and is still a completely viable way or getting people over and/or keeping them on-screen. I don't want to derail this convo, though, so no more AEW posts from me!

 

Yeah, you're right there's been a few. I see what you're saying, I misunderstood and thought you were thinking it was an AEW staple. Yeah man, of course my bad!

 

EDIT: I still use squash matches regularly in-game for my slow build pushes. Simple but effective and gets a potentially flawed character easy tv time on a weekly basis.

[lr10540]

I've always booked what I wanted or needed for a particular story, ratings be damned. I don't find this as a game to play for any other reason than a creative outlet and to have our dream booking job that many of us think we may want. Regardless of what system is used, I'm booking wrestler A vs wrestler B if that is what the story I'm trying to tell requires.

 

I really don't understand the gripe with this system.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Ugh, penalties aren’t the end of the world.

[Spectre]

Well I’ll definitely be pushing Mabel, the Chocolate Mastodon, in 2020.

[Derek B]

Well I’ll definitely be pushing Mabel, the Chocolate Mastodon, in 2020.

 

Some of the gimmick names I've given people during testing are... special. There may need to be a thread specificlally for those names from people at some point, I have no doubt there will be some amazing ones.

[BrokenCycle]

What I like about the new system is how fluid it seems to be. On any given month you could have a different roster depending on what you book.

 

The thing I could see being an issue is a lack of shown progression. I miss the steps of having to change a worker's level on the push ladder.

[Historian]

He starts with 0 in many regions and a couple of 3 and 1. Right now what Pop does it have? I kinda like to understand the number side of the game.

 

In two months I took him from zero to a 50 in popularity.

[danyp92]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Historian" data-cite="Historian" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47956" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>In two months I took him from zero to a 50 in popularity.</div></blockquote><p> Thank you.</p>

[cwamaniac]

Not a fan

 

I don’t like the perception system at all, and prefer the old push system, though perhaps with a neater ui it’ll be more palatable, either way I’ll give it a chance to change my mind but if I still dislike it after a month then I’m joining the bring back pushes movement, as it really hurts my creativity

[magik]

It penalizes your show rating not the segment.

 

Totally different beast.

 

 

What it does exactly is it looks at the grade of the show, say it’s an 85 then goes “BUT WAIT, this Undertaker fella was used in a 15 minute match and the fans don’t know him yet!” then docks your show grade to say.. an 82 or an 81.

 

 

I lost about 6 points off my last show in India for similar reasons, only it can’t be helped as I only have 1 Major Star in the entire company.

 

I feel it's perfectly realistic.

 

You're basically throwing them total unknowns in their area. Once you've built a few of them they'll be able to click with the crowd.

[Lex Star]

I really like the new perception system, all I did in 2016 was use the auto push feature once a month after my PPVs where the biggest popularity changes happened.

[BuddyGarner]

Okay you put in a unknown worker in a match.

 

How do you in TEW determine if the worker gets entrance music. How the announcers treat him. How much his offense is sold.

 

Maybe there could just be a special jobber push for workers that you don't want to build.

[Jaded]

Okay you put in a unknown worker in a match.

 

How do you in TEW determine if the worker gets entrance music. How the announcers treat him. How much his offense is sold.

 

Maybe there could just be a special jobber push for workers that you don't want to build.

 

Not sure about the entrance music, but for the other stuff, I would say it would come under road agent notes. So if he's in an "open match" against a main eventer I'd expect him to get a decent amount of offense with the announcers treating him as a serious threat. If he's on the wrong end of a dominate road agent note, probably significantly less so - just as a couple of examples.

[ubernoob]

Okay you put in a unknown worker in a match.

 

How do you in TEW determine if the worker gets entrance music. How the announcers treat him. How much his offense is sold.

 

Maybe there could just be a special jobber push for workers that you don't want to build.

 

Workers will get the same level of treatment (ie: Whatever your company is set up for in production) but the rest of the stuff in-match is easy to control.

 

You can set them to get dominated (if your product allows it to be successful), you can set them to be decisively finished, you can set them to be equals with their opponent. That stuff is all left up to you.

[Everything Ken]

Awesome analysis.

 

I never really cared for pushes, except it was kind of cool to see who rose and fell after every autopush. The "I think my push should be better" complaints were always really annoying to me. Like, dude, you're pushed as an upper mid carder, but I'm using you like a main eventer. Shut your trap.

 

One other thing that always seemed weird to me was putting 2 openers/enhancement talent in a match and you get a penalty. Change one of those to a lower midcard and the penalty goes away. Like, the audience is somehow super tuned into the backstage going ons of what your push is.

 

Anyway, I really enjoy the perception system. My only minor gripe is that I think there should be more categories and perhaps just use the pop levels from before as names (IE: Icon, huge star, star, draw, etc.) I'm a big spreadsheeter for TEW and the way I organized my sheet was based on the popularity categories. And possibly use it to filter for workers in match/angle booking.

 

Overall, I'm a big fan of the perception system.