Who buy? Who not buying on release day?

[Cornells Cousin]

Buying definitely, honesty I haven’t understood half of the people’s gripe with the game. Enjoyed the trial and it is is a improvement on TEW2016. Hope everyone who does buy it enjoys it and I’ll catch you all in the Dynasty

[jean-vic]

Depends on mods, for me. The game itself, I believe, is a good game for people who like to book wrestling. However, this game lives and dies on real world mods. The Cornellverse does nothing for me. If the game isn't supported by good mods, it's a pointless purchase. As it stands, it would seem that the game isn't very mod friendly and that puts me off purchasing on day one, I'm sorry to say.

[Matt_Black]

I think he's referencing the fact that GSW, PSW, and DIW have the exact same product

 

And? OLLIE and CILL have the same product, and those companies don't feel the same either.

 

It comes down to storylines and roster.

 

IPW? Play up the cartoonish of the roster, especially the supernatural guys like Blackfriar, Deacon, or Coulrophobia.

 

GSW? Glitzy. Like "Empire" but with steel chairs.

 

PSW? Closest to classic ECW. For the most part, classic pro-wrestling style gimmicks, with more cussing and violence.

[TeemuFoundation]

Unfortunately, as thing stand right now, as of this writing, it's a no from me. I'm willing to give the official version a try, and I will try to fight through the 3 month trial period before I completely make up my mind, but considering I haven't been able to book more than one show in TEW 2020, I don't know when I get around to doing a 3 month save in that game.

 

I have returned to the embracing arms of TEW 2016, and I do honestly feel way more at home.

 

And let me say right now that I am in no way wanting to dislike the game. I really wanted to like - and I still hope that my mind changes upon final release due to things getting patched. I've liked every EW game I've played thus far, I've never gone back to an earlier release after getting the newest game in the series on day one. Albeit I did feel, and still do, that TEW 2004 did a remarkable number of things better than any of its predecessors, especially when it came to immersion, but anyhoo.

 

It's hard for me to pinpoint exactly why it is that 2020 keeps pushing me away, and feels so unfun to play. The game finally has a few features I've been wanting since 2004 and 2005. So, stuff I have legitimately been waiting about 15-16 years for. These features include block tapings and the ability to edit chemistry mid-game. Both are huge things for me. And there are more things, too.

 

But there's just something about the game that keeps pushing me away. I appreciate some changes, but for every positive change, it feels like the game has two things that annoy me. It feels difficult to get things done, and playing the game actually feels like work, as opposed to having fun - which is what I'm after.

 

I always feel like such an outsider when people talk about using Excel for their TEW savegames, keeping notes, having these elaborate plans, haha. I just play and book. I have some stuff in my head, but I really just paly for fun. I guess this is a big reason why 2020 just doesn't jive with me that much; a lot of people over the years have complained about TEW games being too easy. I've never had this issue because I've never played TEW for the any kind of challenge it may or may not provide. It's just been this fun way to kill time, really. But I think 2020 aimed to address a lot of the things about the difficulty that have been brought up.

 

This, then, lead to this game where our hands are cuffed way tighter than before. I also feel that maybe it's because the game was aimed at the hardcores who truly do play the game with the help of Excel and hundreds of external notes that everything taking so long was never seen as a possible issue. Me, I'm the kind of player who wants to spend a few minutes, tops, per show. The way I have all my custom angles, autonames, etc. and everything setup, I can book a TV show in a minute in 2016 probably. Something about 2020 just seems clunkier, despite the fact that the added space was supposed to make it smoother and faster. This was also the biggest selling point of the game, which excused the fact that it didn't have that many actual show stealing features - save a few. I was looking forward to the much hyped UI. I don't know what happened, and I won't speculate here.

 

I just read that it takes someone 30 minutes to book a show in 2020 - and I'm assuming this is someone who quite enjoys the game. This is so foreign to me since I could never enjoy it taking half an hour to get one show done in a TEW game, but it goes to show me that perhaps I'm just not in the target audience. This is aimed at the hardcore gamers of the series. And that's fine. Not everything is geared for everyone, that's just how it goes.

 

And even though I initially was in favour of the pre-set products in theory - and I still feel like they can work really well - the way they're setup, and due to their effects on gameplay, I can't help but feel like the products are there to make your life harder. They are there just to ensure people don't get off too easy when playing the game. I've always disagreed with the creator on certain aspects of wrestling, and I've always noticed this when palying TEW - but for instance in 2016 it didn't matter almost at all because there was a workaround for everything. That's the best part about 2016. Like, when it comes to certain stuff in wrestling, such as what gets heat, what doesn't, what works, what doesn't, how some things are done, this, that, the other, I'm fairly convinced I'm right. And it would take quite a lot of convincing and concrete evidence to convince me otherwise. In 2016, again, this was not an issue because I could work around things. 2020 effectively blocks these workarounds. And that's an issue for me. I'm also not telling Adam to agree with me on every view I have on pro wrestling because wrestling is so subjective, but being forced to effectively play in the Cornellverse, even in real world mods, is an issue for me.

 

I guess the thing is, the series is taking steps that are making me feel like it's just not for me anymore. The game is aimed at hardcore pro elite gamers who play the Cornellverse, and the EWR leftovers like me who just want to fantasy book in a sandbox while receiving a false, yet addictive, sense of accomplishment in the way of easy A* rated segments seems to be a group the series wants to finally get rid of. At least that's how it's started to feel. Maybe in the future, the game is finally purely only and exclusively aimed at those who are interested in spending a small lifetime learning every character and nuance in the fictional Cornellverse, and real world mods are phased out.

 

I've mentioned before here that my other gaming related hobby is speedrunning Mega Man X, and given how I am top 5 in the world (yes, I had to throw that in there), the hobby mostly consists of me resetting my Super Nintendo on the first two stages of the game for hours on end, grinding for the optimal RNG to even get a run started. The first stage of the game is also so mash intensive, I am currently taking a break due to pain in my wrist. So I'm really not looking for a challenging grind when I play TEW. I want it to be chill, run, and relaxed. But that's obviously just me.

 

TL;DR it's a combination of the clunkier UI, it taking so long to get from A to B in a lot of cases, the pre-set products being too handcuffing for chill sandbox fantasy booking, as well as me just simply disagreeing with the way they're setup. As well as 2016 just feeling like it fits my playstyle more. Yea, it's easier and simpler, but honestly, I just like it that way. I'd like to get a few of the 2020 features to 2016, but given how much fun 2016 is, I can live without them. Whereas the feeling of not having fun in 2020 is too much to overcome.

 

I don't mind that much, though, actually. I kinda missed out on 2016 due my laptop breaking once I finally had my mod stuff done for it, and before I started again from scratch, my financial situation improved tenfold, opening up a lot of life opportunities, and I also just started dating at the time, so playing video games was the last thing on my list back then lol. So I'm actually pretty stoked right now to dive into 2016 more. It's a fun game and I enjoy it.

 

I will still try to muster my way through the official version of the trial once it's out, and see how things are.

[southside_hitmen]

And? OLLIE and CILL have the same product, and those companies don't feel the same either.

 

It comes down to storylines and roster.

 

IPW? Play up the cartoonish of the roster, especially the supernatural guys like Blackfriar, Deacon, or Coulrophobia.

 

GSW? Glitzy. Like "Empire" but with steel chairs.

 

PSW? Closest to classic ECW. For the most part, classic pro-wrestling style gimmicks, with more cussing and violence.

 

Absolutely rosters and storylines are different (the AI still doesn't use any starting storylines though).

 

He said his point was that he was hoping that products would help differentiate the companies as well, and that they currently are not doing that since they use the same one.

 

IPW is at least a little different with anti-establishment hardcore. The others (PSW, GSW, DIW) use the same one for all 3.

 

In my head canon, PSW is that ECW clone as well, it's just not shown to be that in the product compared to others, as it's the same.

 

So I get your point, and you are right the rosters/storylines are different.

 

But I get his point too, in that the products are the same and the AI can't/won't use the starting storylines anyway.

[Jaded]

And? OLLIE and CILL have the same product, and those companies don't feel the same either.

 

It comes down to storylines and roster.

 

IPW? Play up the cartoonish of the roster, especially the supernatural guys like Blackfriar, Deacon, or Coulrophobia.

 

GSW? Glitzy. Like "Empire" but with steel chairs.

 

PSW? Closest to classic ECW. For the most part, classic pro-wrestling style gimmicks, with more cussing and violence.

 

Okay, but given we have 62 products, why aren't more of them being used? This is the most bizarre thing about the products system for me - all of those different ones in there and yet, counting yet to debut and already closed feds, 34 of them are accounted for by just 5 products and there are 28 products that aren't being used at all. It's not a dealbreaker or anything, but it seems incredibly strange not to have more of a variety given how pumped Adam clearly was about the feature from his journal entries.

[DeathZone2]

And? OLLIE and CILL have the same product, and those companies don't feel the same either.

 

It comes down to storylines and roster.

 

IPW? Play up the cartoonish of the roster, especially the supernatural guys like Blackfriar, Deacon, or Coulrophobia.

 

GSW? Glitzy. Like "Empire" but with steel chairs.

 

PSW? Closest to classic ECW. For the most part, classic pro-wrestling style gimmicks, with more cussing and violence.

 

But that has nothing to do with the products. You have to go out of your way to pick this up and that would require a vast knowledge of the characters. But the thing most people would do is look at the products. Products that are the exact same with different rosters. I think your post misses the plot a bit.

[tysonblade]

I will day one, if only because it was the game I was the only game i was really looking forward to this year. Sadly, the demo has left a bad taste in my mouth in a lot of ways that have been mentioned by others in this thread so far.

Mainly

 

the pre-set products

 

the fact that starting a small company is waaaaay too easy now even with no reputation. (the wrestlers being so cheap for example)

 

and surprisingly the lack of the switch that indicated how many wrestlers make their debut each month, since I really enjoyed starting a game setting it to the highest and simming 5 years into the future to start my company with a vast amount of new gens.

[Forge]

It's definitely a day one purchase for me. The number of changes I like outnumber (and are generally more important to me) than the changes I don't like, so I don't mind learning to live with the latter. Seeing the rate beta patches have been dropping at and remembering how often TEW 2016 was patched early in its lifecycle, I have full confidence that 2020 will continue to see support and improvement for quite some time. And finally, with how many hours I sunk into 2013 and 2016, I'm certain that 2020 will provide me the same excellent return on dollars converted into playtime.

[Matt_Black]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="DeathZone2" data-cite="DeathZone2" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49289" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>But that has nothing to do with the products. You have to go out of your way to pick this up and that would require a vast knowledge of the characters. But the thing most people would do is look at the products. Products that are the exact same with different rosters. I think your post misses the plot a bit.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> "Out of your way"? You can spot the differences within 30 seconds of taking a cursory glance at the rosters.</p><p> </p><p> "Let see, GSW has a bunch of rappers, makes sense given that their logo looks like a music album label, and IPW has... cultists, evil clowns, and a cowboy."</p>

[nerodragomir1]

<p>I'm very much on the fence. It really comes down to what gets fixed in the release he's been talking about. </p><p> </p><p>

I don't think enough will change for me to justify buying the full game.</p><p> </p><p>

I really hope I will be proved wrong though.</p>

[Kimberly]

I want to see what changes, if any, are in the next few patches as well as the final product that gets put on for sale before I buy. The product system is still the biggest problem for me and I know that Adam has said he can't change it but can only add more presets. I want to see what those presets end up being. I have learned to adjust to everything else and there are certainly a lot that I love about the new game. A few weeks ago the answer was no. Now? It's maybe. I am not sold yet on buying it, but I am more open to it than I was two weeks or so ago.

[DeathZone2]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Matt_Black" data-cite="Matt_Black" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49289" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>"Out of your way"? You can spot the differences within 30 seconds of taking a cursory glance at the rosters.<p> </p><p> "Let see, GSW has a bunch of rappers, makes sense given that their logo looks like a music album label, and IPW has... cultists, evil clowns, and a cowboy."</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Okay, but then again booking the shows are the exact same, because the product is the exact same. And that was the point. The shows are the same, just small changes because again you can't tell the difference, because of lack of product variance. The 2020 CV is very lackluster as opposed to say the CV18 mod, which is spectacular with so much creativity and thought put into it.</p>

[southside_hitmen]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Matt_Black" data-cite="Matt_Black" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49289" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>"Out of your way"? You can spot the differences within 30 seconds of taking a cursory glance at the rosters.<p> </p><p> "Let see, GSW has a bunch of rappers, makes sense given that their logo looks like a music album label, and IPW has... cultists, evil clowns, and a cowboy."</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Those two companies have different products (GSW & IPW). I was referencing that GSW, PSW, and DIW have the same product.</p><p> </p><p> Again, it's cool that you can see the differences right away, I get that.</p><p> </p><p> Ultimately though, you can't fault someone else's opinion that things look "same-y" when the 3 (again GSW, PSW & DIW - <strong>NOT IPW</strong>) are setup the exact same from a product perspective.</p>

[Matt_Black]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="DeathZone2" data-cite="DeathZone2" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49289" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Okay, but then again booking the shows are the exact same, because the product is the exact same. And that was the point. The shows are the same, just small changes because again you can't tell the difference, because of lack of product variance. The 2020 CV is very lackluster as opposed to say the CV18 mod, which is spectacular with so much creativity and thought put into it.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If you have enough time to book enough shows for all 3 companies and feel that they're exactly the same, you have enough time to understand the differences in the roster and history of the company and how to use that to make them feel different when booking.</p>

[DeathZone2]

I wouldn't pay for TEW20, but I'd gladly pay for a remaster of TEW2004. The best game in the series imo.

[KevinStorm]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Matt_Black" data-cite="Matt_Black" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49289" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If you have enough time to book enough shows for all 3 companies and feel that they're exactly the same, you have enough time to understand the differences in the roster and history of the company and how to use that to make them feel different when booking.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If you have enough time to argue that two companies that have different products are, in fact, different, you have enough time to understand that having to learn the history of three fictional wrestling companies to "understand" that they are different means that the new product system, which we were told was intended to differentiate companies and make them feel and operate differently, completely fails.</p>

[TOTKingNothing]

<p>I won't be buying this game on day one as the product system is too restrictive for the mod that I want to edit and play. This is on top of other minor gripes I have about the game. </p><p> </p><p>

It still makes me mad when I think about how the product system went from something fully customizable, where the system was as deep as you wanted it to be if you wanted to learn what the different things did, to now being completely restricted to whatever it is that Adam Ryland sees as a certain product. You can't innovate anything yourself, you're only stuck with what is in the game.</p><p> </p><p>

If you have an idea for a cool, different new product, in order to play it you have stop playing your game, put it on hold, go to the forums, submit your suggestion, hope that it is "unique enough" to be put into the game by Adam's own opinion, and then wait for a patch to be implemented that has your product in it. </p><p> </p><p>

I don't care what your opinions are on the system as it stands, this is bad game design.</p><p> </p><p>

It bums me out a lot because there is SO much about this game to like and I do recommend it for many people who are not bothered by these restrictive changes (including not being able to edit someones in-game status with the in-game editor anymore.) The gameplay and booking are superior to 2016, but the features feel very anti-creativity and that's just not what I buy these games for.</p>

[Xendarii]

<p>For me the decision completely stands and falls depending on how much the UI and UX have been improved. The first screenshots that Adam posted look promising, but I'll keep my judgment until I can have a look at the final result. If my feeling is that the game is enjoyable to use - which it absolutely isn't at this point -, I'll buy it. Otherwise, I'll skip it, but that probably means not buying it whatsoever, even at a later point in time. I'll stick to 2016 in that case.</p><p> </p><p>

Fingers crossed for the first option happening because I'd really love to play it.</p>

[LloydCross]

I'm already liking the demo enough to buy this. It may not be literally on Thursday though just because that's not really a day I generally mess around on my computer throughout the evening.

[mirorFR]

No for the moment , i'll buy it when i can use the mouse wheel to scroll ALL the menus and when a skin more agreable to look at is going to be available.

[FRAGz]

Buying 100% no questions asked

[Owen Rey]

For the first time since I became aware of the TEW series 10 years ago, I will not be buying this game. There have been enough annoyances in gameplay to prevent me from buying it. I will be sticking with TEW 16 for the forseeable future.

[gazwefc83]

Can wait to buy, the news that he is waiting on the skin is devastating, i was hoping we would get a release a day early as in tomorrow.

[Cyhort]

I've pretty much lost interest at this point due to the long delay. I've played around in the demo, but I only play one save so I've been rationing what I do in the game so I don't reach the end too far from the full release. Since it's been so long though, and now it might be even longer, I've gone through so many stories and matches in my head I have no real desire to "go back" and book them all in the game.