TEW 2020 released!

[Lucas]

<p>I'd really like to play this game but the text size being so tiny by default (size 8 in a lot of places), and the inability to scroll with the mouse wheel are big accessibility issues for me. </p><p> </p><p>

Having even loaded up TEW2004 I can see the text size being size 8 has always been this way, but I was hoping with more screen space that this would have been utilised better for spacing of elements and font size. </p><p> </p><p>

I still stand by my earlier comments and many others about other aspects of the UI, including the multiple layers of modal popup windows that you have to click a tiny X each time just to get back to the last screen. But the above two are the most important to me, and it feels very frustrating and a sense of being left out, due to poor design.</p><p> </p><p>

I do see some things that I'd consider improvements in ways but these are pointless to my experience if I can't access the game.</p><p> </p><p>

I had a long hiatus away from the EW/TEW series until coming back for the 2013 version but I don't think I can play this again until these issues are addressed. I will hang around to see if there's improvements etc but otherwise I think I'll find other things to do with my time.</p>

[Forgotmyusername]

<p>First tew game I havent bought since 05. My major issues-</p><p> </p><p>

Booking arrows</p><p>

No way to view worker on angles</p><p>

Lack of scrolling</p><p>

Still has general awful UI (skills, small text)</p><p> </p><p>

Was expecting these to be fixed during the two week delay. Will purchase once these are fixed.</p>

[DaneQuixote]

<p>Loving the game so far. UI is a major improvement. No major complaints, but do have a few minor suggestions after working on a RL mid for 12 hours yesterday. </p><p> </p><p>

Shocked (not shocked) with how much people are still complaining about things. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/eek.png.0e09df00fa222c85760b9bc1700b5405.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[TeemuFoundation]

<p>Well, unfortunately it's a no buy for me. Currently. And I say currently because I'm fairly sure patches will continue to happen. To what extent remains to be seen.</p><p> </p><p>

I'll list the positives first:</p><p> </p><p>

I really do like perception; it's intuitive, and more in line with how real life works, in all honesty. One of the better features introduces to the series. It reduces some unnecessary busywork, and going back to TEW 2016, this is definitely something I'm going to miss. The old push system isn't bad, per se, but I am a big fan of the perception system.</p><p> </p><p>

I also enjoy the new gimmicks. Again, a big step up from what the series had prior. I'm someone who only has a really small selection of very basic gimmicks, and in 2016 I basically play with the gimmicks effects turned off because I always found the gimmicks to be a little clunky and cumbersome. So I basically just have the 12 or 13 gimmick types as gimmicks in the file with both a subtle and non-subtle, risky and non-risky version of each just for show. The gimmicks in 2020 made me want to actually explore them and play around with them. A very good idea, good execution.</p><p> </p><p>

Block tapings were something I wanted ever since TEW 2004, basically. You can even go back to EWR. It's simply so much more intuitive when playing historic mods. In 2016, it always feels a little silly that fans pay to come to a one hour taping of Superstars with a few squash matches and backstage promos. Of course, this is where imagination steps in, but actually having the ability to do 3-4 hour tapings for the fans in 2020 is a lot more immersive. I'm happy this finally made its way to the series. I am sad I won't be able to have this in 2016.</p><p> </p><p>

The new in-game options that we were given: being able to edit in-game chemistry, and being able to turn off the penalty for a turn that happened too soon. Again, things I've wanted for as long as I can remember. The in-game chemistry add is a fun thing for me as someone who plays real world mods, and always turned chemistry off since it was annoying being 7 years into a save, and realizing I had forgotten to set a neutral chemistry for a pairing that tore that house down in real life, and they will now stin the joint up. Completely breaking any immersion I had. I was quite happy with just the option to turn chemistry off, but it's a nice little RNG factor to have in the game, <em>as long as it's contained</em>, and being able to have chemistry on, but still being able to prevent Ric Flair and Ricky Steamboat not clicking at all, just in case, was the best of both worlds. It made me super happy. Also, I always disagreed with the "turned too soon" penalty to begin with, since I've always seen that a penalty like that should come in when a worker turns heel, then babyface, and THEN back to heel (or vice versa) - but the penalty from one quick turn felt like too much especially for some eras. It's a fine penalty, and should exist for workers who constantly turn, but when done right, one quick back and forth turn shouldn't hurt you that much, and we've seen this happen historically. I really liked it when 2016 introduced the EWR features in general because options are amazing in a game like this. That way, it doesn't matter whether or not you completely agree with the creator's vision of wrestling; you could just fiddle with the settings to create the game world you liked and saw wrestling as.</p><p> </p><p>

I have to say, I actually like the new editor. I was weirded out at first, but as I got used to it, stuff became faster. And there are less clicks. I don't even mind the attributes screen, I really don't. I know a lot of people do, but for whatever reason, it just didn't cause me the same frustration. I also like being able to compare skills and pop to other workers and companies, respectively. Very cool, and definitely made modding easier. I generally had a good time working in the editor in 2020. Some things here and there could be more intuitive and have less clicks, but overall, I think it's a step up from 2016. I've mentioned before, but maybe it's the Mega Man X speedrunner in me, but I learned pretty quickly that adding a specific attribute would be like "second tab, four presses of P" and so on. Obviously, in speedrunning, especially in MMX, we do stuff like that all the time with specific numbers of R and L pressed and whatnot. I dunno, I just never really had an issue with it.</p><p> </p><p>

Speaking of attributes, this is also a super nice addition to the series. Especially with the ability for more to be patched in. It's been said by numerous people, but attributes allow for creating more unique personalities, and the workers having more personality is something the series has been missing from the start. Attributes are a big leap forward from the personality and lifestyle sliders.</p><p> </p><p>

And there are several things here and there that I've run into that have made me think "Oh, that's cool" and "Oh, that's nice to have". Small stuff here and there. As well as stuff like ticket prices, more emphasis on merchandising, the new contract structures. Things like this are very much appreciated. Booking is the main thing we do, but I love having more of the, well, other stuff we can do in-between booking. Oh, and I love how I can give outrageously stupid contracts in TEW 2020. That kind of stuff would make a wCW save a lot of fun. I gave someone a one million dollar bonus and it made me chuckle. I'm a big fan of having the freedom to be an idiot in TEW. I don't always play to be "efficient", treating TEW as a video game, it's moreso a sandbox for me to have fun in.</p><p> </p><p>

Why, then, am I sticking with 2016? Regardless of all these (and more) good features and added fun?</p><p> </p><p>

Well, the UI is still a big issue, unfortunately. And this isn't me crapping on it for the sake of crapping on it. I never went into 2020 trying my utmost not to like it, quite the contrary. Heck, in lockdown and this is getting so goddamn boring and terrible, I was dying to sink my teeth into another TEW game. Not that my boredom is the worst thing that's come out of this pandemic, don't assume I feel that way, I don't. But this crisis did do a dent on my finances and plans for this year - like it did for many - so I was more than ready to play and enjoy a quality text based wrestling sim. None of the past games in the series had let me down, so my expectations were high.</p><p> </p><p>

But a lot of the things that have been mentioned: the arrows in the booking screen, no mouse wheel and keyboard support for the road agent notes, as well as other screens (even though support has been added). I think other people just have different ways to play, but I've always been really big on using the keyboard and mouse wheel in TEW. I activate a list and then look for what I want by typing in on the keyboard. I was extremely weirded out not being able to do that this time around. I tried giving it a chance, but it's not jiving with me. When I make a mod, and go to add a picture for a worker, I sometimes need to look for the right picture by individually scrolling through hundreds of pics I have for some workers. I need to open up the actual folder on my computer to find a good pic. In 2016, I open up the list of pics, type in the guy I'm looking for on my keyboard, and there I am, and then I just scroll down with an arrow. I guess people have different setups, but I've been using the same folder for real world TEW pics since 2004, adding new pics as the years have gone, and all the pics are formatted like "Shawn Michaels 01.jpg, Shawn Michaels 02.jpg, Shawn Michaels 03.jpg" all the way to "Shawn Michaels 231.jpg". So you can imagine how slow finding pics is for me in 2020. I know that this new way of doing things allowed for adding the colored lists, but I'm not entirely sure what their purpose was. Where color was needed, the 2016 letters did the job extremely well. I personally don't see another need for color - color is a nice thing to have, I guess, but when it exists at the expense of something as basic and necessary as using the keyboard and the mouse wheel, I'm just left scratching my head.</p><p> </p><p>

Also - and I can kind of understand this design choice being made since it came as a surprise to me just how much it actually matters, I wasn't expecting it - the small numbers as the segment ratings really bother me. It's weird, but they just take me completely out of the experience. My reasoning is that TEW isn't Super Mario, or Mega Man X where we beat the final boss and get the rewarding end credits roll. There isn't an ultimate goal working as the reward at the end of the tunnel; the reward is getting the scores. The satisfying big blue A* in 2016 is the incentive to play. Beyond that, there isn't much to achieve. And don't get me wrong, for 2016 it works, there doesn't have to be an incentive beyond that. But when the only incentive is missing, like it is in 2020, it's extremely hard to get into the game. The standard font numbers don't do it for me. I was able to finish booking a few shows in 2020, and felt like so what. Like I said, I had no idea how big of an impact the big rewarding grade graphics had on me until I booted up 2020, so I can understand how this wasn't something that would be immediately apparent. But man, the problem definitely is there.</p><p> </p><p>

Just getting things done, and being rewarded for what you do, have taken a massive step back from 2016, and it's a real bummer. Again, not saying this stuff just to be negative. Not saying it just to crap on the game for the sake of crapping on the game, so no need to attack me. If you feel the need to attack me, you can scroll up and see for yourself all the things I gave praise for. This is my subjective experience.</p><p> </p><p>

Also, there's the products. Now, I wasn't against the idea of pre-set products, actually. I still feel like some things being pre-set and coded into the game can give that stuff more context and meaning. For one, I was a fan of the pre-made angles in TEW 2004, and would like to see them come back in a future game. Possibly with the added feature of doing freestyles like we are now. Sometimes I feel like everything being made freehanded in the editor can take some of the edge off a lot of stuff because things have to be so vague. Like, angles, as they are now, really lack context, which I think could be possible if they were pre-made and hard coded into the game. So anyhoo, I was excited when pre-made products were announced. But the way they exist currently in the game just had me disagreeing with them a lot. And that's when the limitation of doing them this way really hit me. My biggest issue is simply with the time restraints. And yes, I know they're not restraints. I get what they're trying to accomplish; it's just that the best segments ever are not possible too far off the time boundaries of the product. But I already discussed the lack of a rewarding experience in 2020 due to the small grade numbers, now it's made even worse as the game is constantly telling me I'm booking my company all wrong. This angle is too short, that match was too long. I know what it's trying to do, I realize the intent here. But the end result is just me disagreeing with the products I want to use, which just leads me to not wanting to play the game. Angles and matches being so limited just based on time and time alone lacks any and all context that can exist in segments. It's too binary, and constantly reminds me that I'm not actually booking a wrestling company and writing stories, I am simply playing around with a calculator, and sooner rather than later I find myself just gaming the system, trying to get the best scores. And poof, I'm out of the game. I mean, it's my own fault, ultimately. It's me an my OCD and my own limitations. But they're there, regardless, so might as well mention it. 2016 has caps based on length, too, mind you. And I hate those in 2016, as well - then 2020 brings them back ten fold. Now not only can your segments be too short, they also suck if they go too long. It's all just so frustrating. I think this is something that is going to split players, some like the challenge, some don't. Me, I'm the fantasy booking sandbox guy who enjoys some challenge, but moreso when it's stuff like drug overdoses, no shows, injuries, and whatnot. Things that force me to be creative, not things that limit my creativity. Some players, I'm sure, enjoy these limits, but they're not for me. I've thought a lot about this, and I think the main issue is that <em>the penalties are not in line with how I see the match/segment in my head</em>. Because I have a specific view of how wrestling works, at least in a North American mainstream-esque company, mostly WWF and NWA/WCW. And I book certain stuff with certain workers that I just know would have the crowd eat it up. And then game tells me the segment went too long. And it's like ehh. It becomes gamey, and it's not very enjoyable to me. I've talked about my specific gripes with the length caps and penalties at such length here that no one wants to hear me going off on a tangent again lol. I'm sure my various posts on the subject can be found all over the threads.</p><p> </p><p>

I'm also not a fan of losing the ability to edit people's hiatuses, retirements, out of business, and deceased statuses in-game. Fun tidbit: I never really used these settings to cheat, I actually actively used it to make things harder for me by sending a star to early retirement and whatnot. And sometimes it was fun to write that big one more match comeback story. I haven't messed around with the Talk to Wrestler feature much in the game, it may be able to work as a kind of substitute. But I doubt I can kill a wrestler with Talk to Worker.</p><p> </p><p>

No one read this, but these were my quick thoughts off the top of my head. Cheers.</p>

[TallerGohstDaniel]

Great game. Loving it so far. Nice work

[Pjs86]

Wow, this game is just incredible. Makes 2016 unplayable imo as every single change add up to make a massively improved game.

[daddytorgo1]

Then go post it on the suggestion forum and move on. It’s that simple!

 

Already done chief.

[Taker4455]

No one read this, but these were my quick thoughts off the top of my head. Cheers.

 

This is an excellent post and summary of the game. Very well said.

 

Hopefully at least some of the issues will be fixed in the upcoming patches, although I'm not holding my breath.

[KevinStorm]

I agree with pretty much everything Teemu said. I'd only add that, while I really like the perception system, I'd like to be able to more easily distinguish between wrestlers and non wrestlers on the contracts screen (which is the closest we have to 16's roster overview, which I used a lot).

[daddytorgo1]

No one read this, but these were my quick thoughts off the top of my head. Cheers.

 

Massive +1 from me.

 

Everything you said.

[TheTinzzman]

Well, unfortunately, it's a no buy for me. Currently. And I say currently because I'm fairly sure patches will continue to happen. To what extent remains to be seen.

 

No one read this, but these were my quick thoughts off the top of my head. Cheers.

 

I couldn't have written this better myself with my exact sentiments. I'm glad the games out and people can have the fun they like myself have been waiting for. Nothing else to be said after this guy's post.

 

Have fun Fantasy Bookers! Ill be on Tew 2016!

[FWPD]

This will be the first TEW I'm not purchasing due to pretty much everything Teemu stated.

[GoFish2020]

I have bought the game, because I really looked forward to it and I am trying to force myself to enjoy it more than '16 but having problems but will try and cover the bits I like as well as those I am not.

 

Booking-

 

I don't like the booking segment moving, it needs changing back to '16 model.

 

The booking screen looks pretty rough now, that's an asthetic thing. The screens showing results are too basic, score looks basic. The ratings are odd and it is tricky to understand why segments have bombed when even the dirt sheet doesn't seem to explain it.

 

Game World- Weirdly, the game world feels more alive and active, but my own part of the world (my promotion) feels disconnected from me. I have no idea why, it just doesn't feel like I have control over what is happening.

 

Other companies compete much more effectively for workers and there is a real sense of competition, but too much of the internal stuff still feels very clunky. I also don't understand why I can still tell workers employed by other companies to go on steroids or change their styles.

 

I am going to reluctantly go back to 2016. I really want to enjoy this version and I don't regret buying it because I want the series to be a success but I can't see myself getting in to 2020 like I did 2016 even though I am really trying.

[MitchHedberg]

I think the coolest thing in all of this is that both 2016 and 2020 are gonna have active communities, converse to the dropoff that usually happens when a new iteration of TEW is released.

[Thomnipotent]

Going to echo Teemu's analysis, top to bottom, positive and negative.

 

The thing that makes the negatives sting the most is the absolute stubbornness from up top. "It's a limitation of the language" and "we've tried everything" need to stop. Take the feedback. Find a way to implement it.

 

Example: I didn't have admin mode on when I saved. Long story short, I found my save in appdata and had a general idea of how TEW workarounds saving and loading data. I suggested maybe not installing into Program Files by default, and was met with disdain. I installed the demo to a different directory just out of curiosity, ran my game outside of admin mode, saved, and checked to see if I could load it. It worked!

 

Your customer base should not be on the hook for fixing your sloppy workarounds and refusal to modernize. Don't even get me started on eLicense- a bunch of people who want to buy and play can't either because of crap DRM or installation problems.

 

The game is fun, despite its puzzling design problems and removed features... but I'll be damned if I'm going to shell out $35 for a product that makes me feel stupid for supporting it.

[MachismoX]

So excited to finally see all the work I've done to recreate my 2016 save come to life (it started in August so I could never load it in the demo). Everything feels so alive in a way that I never felt with 2016. In 2016 I was clicking with a purpose and a story in my head. 2020 thus far feels like I have that and everyone is actively trying to screw me over.

[ItaOperor]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="KevinStorm" data-cite="KevinStorm" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49492" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I agree with pretty much everything Teemu said. I'd only add that, while I really like the perception system, I'd like to be able to more easily distinguish between wrestlers and non wrestlers on the contracts screen (which is the closest we have to 16's roster overview, which I used a lot).</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If you filter your roster to workers only and then go into contracts the non-workers will be filtered out.</p>

[Charvalos]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Thomnipotent" data-cite="Thomnipotent" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49492" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The thing that makes the negatives sting the most is the absolute stubbornness from up top. "It's a limitation of the language" and "we've tried everything" need to stop. Take the feedback. Find a way to implement it.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> They can't implement so many things because of VB6.</p><p> </p><p> We're in 2020 and TEW :</p><p> </p><p> </p><ul><li> Still has a fixed resolution<br /></li><li> Still asking to run on admin mode<br /></li><li> Still not supporting basing QoL like being able to scroll with my mouse or even being able to drag and drop the segments on the booking screen<br /></li><li> Has a awful & terrible UI with so many bad design choices (font size, color, etc).<br /></li><li> Still using a old system for the license<br /></li><li> Doesn't have a automatic update system. We still have to download a new .exe & copy it to the game directory.<br /></li><li> Etc..<br /></li></ul><p></p><p> </p><p> And for that, you have to pay 35$.</p><p> </p><p> Tbh, I don't understand why Adam bothered to re-wrote TEW by using the same old engine. Being myself a developper, it just make no sense.</p>

[TeemuFoundation]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Thomnipotent" data-cite="Thomnipotent" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49492" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Going to echo Teemu's analysis, top to bottom, positive and negative.<p> </p><p> The thing that makes the negatives sting the most is the absolute stubbornness from up top. "It's a limitation of the language" and "we've tried everything" need to stop. Take the feedback. Find a way to implement it.</p></div></blockquote><p> I mean, let's be fair. Adam doesn't owe anybody any specific kind of game. He has a product for sale. The product is the way it is. People can decide whether or not it's worth the asking price. If it is, you purchase, and if it isn't you won't purchase. Just wanted to throw that out there.</p>

[Thomnipotent]

We're not owed anything, but we also don't owe blind praise or even silence. I don't expect the game to be fixed, but that doesn't mean I don't get to call it broken.

[Idolized]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Thomnipotent" data-cite="Thomnipotent" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49492" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>We're not owed anything, but we also don't owe blind praise or even silence. I don't expect the game to be fixed, but that doesn't mean I don't get to call it broken.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> But at what point are you just shouting at the clouds? You are well within your right to feel the way you feel and say the way you feel but the same posts over and over aren’t going to make it any more likely to get fixed what you feel is broken. You are also well within your right to not purchase the game. These games are written in the language Adam clearly is comfortable working in and e-license doesn’t look like it’s going anywhere either.</p>

[HarryFandango86]

Well no game is ever gonna be perfect. I really enjoy this new installment of TEW 2020. The new additions are really good and I don’t think I could go back to tew 2016 now. I hope tew 2024 improves on things for the people who don’t like it. There’s no reason to think 2020 still won’t improve anyway, cos Adam will keep tweaking it and working at it for years yet, just like he did with tew 2016. I hope he does a second comic book hero before the next tew though.

[Rawisericho]

Teemu is spot on.

[Rawisericho]

They can't implement so many things because of VB6.

 

We're in 2020 and TEW :

 

• Still has a fixed resolution
  
• Still asking to run on admin mode
  
• Still not supporting basing QoL like being able to scroll with my mouse or even being able to drag and drop the segments on the booking screen
  
• Has a awful & terrible UI with so many bad design choices (font size, color, etc).
  
• Still using a old system for the license
  
• Doesn't have a automatic update system. We still have to download a new .exe & copy it to the game directory.
  
• Etc..
  

 

And for that, you have to pay 35$.

 

Tbh, I don't understand why Adam bothered to re-wrote TEW by using the same old engine. Being myself a developper, it just make no sense.

 

It’s incredibly weird that he rewrote it from scratch to get marginally the same product with worse QoL.

[Thomnipotent]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Idolized" data-cite="Idolized" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49492" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>But at what point are you just shouting at the clouds? You are well within your right to feel the way you feel and say the way you feel but the same posts over and over aren’t going to make it any more likely to get fixed what you feel is broken. You are also well within your right to not purchase the game. These games are written in the language Adam clearly is comfortable working in and e-license doesn’t look like it’s going anywhere either.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Hey, the second any of this is addressed with something that isn't a cop out or thread lock, the cloud shouting will cease.</p>