TCP's Big Announcement Part 4: THE BETA

[Johnny Fenoli]

[QUOTE=Anubis]Hmmm . . . Well . . . I don't entirely agree, but I don't entirely disagree either . . . I still think they'd have "compatible" experience, but I guess it is a delicate balancing. Well then, as long as the MMA guys have more than pieces of crap like Mark Henry and The Great Khali, I'll be happy.[/QUOTE] So you think that Fedor Emelianenko should have a higher Psychology rating than Mark Henry, who's been "training" for ten years?

[toddthebod]

[QUOTE=Johnny Fenoli]So you think that Fedor Emelianenko should have a higher Psychology rating than Mark Henry, who's been "training" for ten years?[/QUOTE] I feel that is a bad example because it certainly doesn't appear that Mark Henry has had ten years of "training." However, the disagreements can stop now, as instead of placing guys On Hiatus, I will lower their psychology stats. I feel that people who are better wrestlers like Matt Hughes will have basics in the 40-50 range and everything will fall from there. Psychology will be lowered in order to help out with this. So, all of this can stop as you have the answer. However, as I said...I won't be placing anyone On Hiatus due to stats being lowered. I will work hard in the next week to finish this and send the newest update to TCP and that will be final. So, I ask everyone to look at my roster and see if you want any different UFC guys in the data. Thanks and hope this will stop the complaining fest that has started.

[Johnny Fenoli]

[QUOTE=toddthebod]I feel that is a bad example because it certainly doesn't appear that Mark Henry has had ten years of "training." However, the disagreements can stop now, as instead of placing guys On Hiatus, I will lower their psychology stats. I feel that people who are better wrestlers like Matt Hughes will have basics in the 40-50 range and everything will fall from there. Psychology will be lowered in order to help out with this. So, all of this can stop as you have the answer. However, as I said...I won't be placing anyone On Hiatus due to stats being lowered. I will work hard in the next week to finish this and send the newest update to TCP and that will be final. So, I ask everyone to look at my roster and see if you want any different UFC guys in the data. Thanks and hope this will stop the complaining fest that has started.[/QUOTE] It needs to be both, they all should be on hiatus, and they all should have low psychology. These guys AREN'T wrestlers... Matt Hughes for example again, I'd have his Basics up higher than that, like 60-70. But then his psychology and all that no higher than 10. No offense Todd but I dont think you're the end all decider on what the ratings should be. If you guys DONT put them all on hiatus is it possible to get a list of all the MMA guys you end up making so that those of us who want to can go in and change it. I personally dont want my game messed up with MMA guys taking over the wrestling world. As far as more guys to add, I'd add some or most of the Ultimate Fighter guys from all seasons. Something else that might be cool since we're adding MMA guys might be some other non wrestling TYPES that exist in the world. (Football, Boxing, Celebrities for goof matches, World's Strongest Man, Food Network Chefs....)

[Anubis]

[QUOTE=Johnny Fenoli]It needs to be both, they all should be on hiatus, and they all should have low psychology. These guys AREN'T wrestlers... Matt Hughes for example again, I'd have his Basics up higher than that, like 60-70. But then his psychology and all that no higher than 10. No offense Todd but I dont think you're the end all decider on what the ratings should be.[/QUOTE] That makes no sense. Why should they have such high Basics when they have [i]no[/i] training in wrestling? Safety is the only one they should have a really high stat in, because that is something that is needed in real fighting just as much as in professional wrestling. Still, Basics should be the lowest, not the highest. I think perhaps you don't know what the different stats mean exactly. Basics is basic training in professional wrestling. Basic bumping, how to move properly, the basics of doing moves, etc. People who fight for real and have never wrestled should have [i]almost nothing[/i] in this stat. Psychology is the storytelling ability. It's not about working on a body part and such nonsense, it's about telling a story properly, pacing the match, and getting the flow of the match down properly. This should be average for MMA guys because, contrary to popular belief, these guys are also entertainers and tell their own "stories" when they fight for real, so while it's not the same, it is at least [i]similar[/i], and I think experience in MMA would help a guy transition into professional wrestling easier than some green newbie. Safety is opponent handling. Basically, this is your ability not to seriously injure your opponent. The MMA guys should have [i]a lot[/i] of this because, being trained to fight for real, they gotta know even more than professional wrestlers how not to kill their opponents. Consistency, that's something I'm not so sure how to handle from the MMA guys. As for putting them "On Hiatus", I think toddthebod is right not to do so. It is possible, within the game terms, to book an MMA style "worked shoot" promotion, and these guys would be very useful for that. To keep the MMA guys from taking over mainstream promotions, just keep their Microphone and Acting stats low (which would be fitting).

[XxFutureLegend112xX]

i agree just keep the mic and acting skillz very low

[Grimmas]

[QUOTE=Anubis]Hmmm . . . Well . . . I don't entirely agree, but I don't entirely disagree either . . . I still think they'd have "compatible" experience, but I guess it is a delicate balancing. Well then, as long as the MMA guys have more than pieces of crap like Mark Henry and The Great Khali, I'll be happy.[/QUOTE] What the heck is your problem with Mark Henry. Khali is horrible, yes. But Henry is more than passable and has had some tremendous matches this year.

[Johnny Fenoli]

[QUOTE=Anubis]That makes no sense. Why should they have such high Basics when they have [i]no[/i] training in wrestling? Safety is the only one they should have a really high stat in, because that is something that is needed in real fighting just as much as in professional wrestling. Still, Basics should be the lowest, not the highest. I think perhaps you don't know what the different stats mean exactly. Basics is basic training in professional wrestling. Basic bumping, how to move properly, the basics of doing moves, etc. People who fight for real and have never wrestled should have [i]almost nothing[/i] in this stat. Psychology is the storytelling ability. It's not about working on a body part and such nonsense, it's about telling a story properly, pacing the match, and getting the flow of the match down properly. This should be average for MMA guys because, contrary to popular belief, these guys are also entertainers and tell their own "stories" when they fight for real, so while it's not the same, it is at least [i]similar[/i], and I think experience in MMA would help a guy transition into professional wrestling easier than some green newbie. Safety is opponent handling. Basically, this is your ability not to seriously injure your opponent. The MMA guys should have [i]a lot[/i] of this because, being trained to fight for real, they gotta know even more than professional wrestlers how not to kill their opponents. Consistency, that's something I'm not so sure how to handle from the MMA guys. As for putting them "On Hiatus", I think toddthebod is right not to do so. It is possible, within the game terms, to book an MMA style "worked shoot" promotion, and these guys would be very useful for that. To keep the MMA guys from taking over mainstream promotions, just keep their Microphone and Acting stats low (which would be fitting).[/QUOTE] I always assumed basics meant basic wrestling. So that's why I thought a guy like matt hughes who is a trained REAL wrestler would be about that high. Why would MMA guys have high safety? If you're in a real fight you dont think "I hope when I dump this guy on his head he dont get hurt to bad." You're out there to do harm. True you dont want to kill that guy but you're not going to be out there guiding them to the ground. I plan on doing a worked shoot fed personally. But I'm just afraid that their stats might get out of hand and all the sudden every guy who used to be K-1, Pride, or UFC is now in APW, OVW, and the Combat Zone. I dont say any of this to knock ToddtheBod or Darkfire at all. I've personally seen the work Todd's done, and for the most part it all looks good. I've been a strong proponet of the MMA guys being in the data, since I've been in love with the sport since the first UFC event. So, I hope nothing is taken in vain. Keep up the good work that you two are doing, dont let anything I or anyone else says or has said discourage you. another note on the mic skills and acting and such. I agree with you, very few guys should be high in entertainment stats. The only guys that come to mind off the top are Tito Ortiz and Rampage Jackson.

[Grimmas]

Oh, Greg Gagne is the new booker of OVW. Yes, Greg Gagne the son of Verne of the AWA.

[TCP1]

[QUOTE=Grimmas]Oh, Greg Gagne is the new booker of OVW. Yes, Greg Gagne the son of Verne of the AWA.[/QUOTE] Blimey. As for MMA, I'll make a decision before release on whether to have them on hiatus or not?

[panix04]

did those A1 pictures help at all?

[TCP1]

Er... no. :) Sorry, he is not looking at the camera. It's strange that there are no decent pics of him.

[Evil Angry Cat]

[QUOTE=Grimmas]What the heck is your problem with Mark Henry. Khali is horrible, yes. But Henry is more than passable and has had some tremendous matches this year.[/QUOTE] BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Ok I'm don.... TREMENDOUS BAHAHAHAHA But seriously, a lot of MMA fighters have amateur wrestling training and thus have the ability to pick it up much quicker. Not saying all, just a lot.

[trypio]

[QUOTE=Evil Angry Cat]BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Ok I'm don.... TREMENDOUS BAHAHAHAHA But seriously, a lot of MMA fighters have amateur wrestling training and thus have the ability to pick it up much quicker. Not saying all, just a lot.[/QUOTE] I kinda agree with Grimmas... I wouldn't say tremendous, but his matches were better than I expected, so let's call em passable. I like it that he does some (big) jumps from time to time (and mostly injures his opponents with it...) He can't really wrestle however... and his Safety should be 0.0000 lol

[Grimmas]

[QUOTE=Evil Angry Cat]BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Ok I'm don.... TREMENDOUS BAHAHAHAHA [/QUOTE] Did you not see the Rey match from months back? How about the Angle match from Judgment Day? The other Rey match was pretty good too. Not to mention his sqaushes have been pretty good. Henry isn't the top wrestler in the world or anything, but he knows enough to not do the things he can not do. He potrays himself as a monster better than anybody else in the WWE, atleast. EDIT: About injuries, he hasn't actually injured anybody. He was in the same match with Batista when Batista got injured, but it wasn't something that Henry did it was just an injury. What other injuries has he caused? Unless we are talking storyline sense where he has taken out everybody?

[darkfire423]

What you guys are taking in that Mat Wrestlers in MMA really can wrestle. BJJ also use alot takedown (armdrags, leg whips, etc) in which you have to throw a fighter becuase no one wants to really hurt someone. They dont want to win like that. Well Tito vs Shamrock i am sure the they want the other to die but that is it. Alot of guys can make the jump to Wrestler. even a second rate worker like Bob Sapp can wrestle better the alot of the super size guys in the WWE becuase he is a MMA worker. Here is what i did Trained pro wrestlers - 50 + on their basic skills - Also think Gerco Roman wrestling trains alot of guys to take minor bumps when they get taked down so their weight is landing on one spot. - BJJ and Mat guys are in the 30s to 40s - Rest are under 30 Psychology - "This is how good the worker is at both keeping the fans interested in the match, and making the match flow correctly. In a regular singles match only one of the workers really needs to have a high Psychology rating, as he can lead the opponent through." - Now me being the Stiff monkey that i am, to me seeing stiff kicks and Not alot of selling gets fans in to the the match. For those who been to a show. when you hear a loud SMACK from a butal chop or kick dont you guys all go "EWWWHEW".....think about it - Also i think this in the programing doesnt really mean jack becuase you can have a guy with no overness and great Psychology and still get a match that the crowd likes. Reallly people it is a thing. Chances are if they do get hired in the data it is going to a promotion like NOAH or NJPW. Judge but alot of the "Wrestling Fans" who are posting here they wont get played. To set them on Hitaus is a bad idea. You might have just not put them in then. Becuase someone never comes back from Hitaus. Right now i am waiting for Becky Bayless to come back in my T-zone game.......8 years and still nothing........PWG is the largest company in the world too but that is my doing........ What alot of people dont think about. MMA guys wont have great Selling, But Meancing should be jacked up becuase even a guy the size of Mark Henry really should feel that Mirko Cro Cop can and prolly try to kill him. Henry can act mean and has the size to make some one go wow. But he is only 6'8 like 380......to a wrestler the size of even Jindrak who is about the same height and in the 260's he isnt that good looking. But he got enough acting skills to make it work......But his basics suck, selling sucks, really WWE is the only place that he would work becuase of his track record of hurting people and being stiff.......you guys all are drooling over him becuase he got pushed.....same with KAHLI.......who shouldnt have any basic, safety, Psychology, selling........he DID KILL A GUY WITH A MESSED UP MOVE....... really the WWE is employing a killer......think about that one guys.....

[darkfire423]

[QUOTE=Grimmas]Did you not see the Rey match from months back? How about the Angle match from Judgment Day? The other Rey match was pretty good too. Not to mention his sqaushes have been pretty good. Henry isn't the top wrestler in the world or anything, but he knows enough to not do the things he can not do. He potrays himself as a monster better than anybody else in the WWE, atleast. EDIT: About injuries, he hasn't actually injured anybody. He was in the same match with Batista when Batista got injured, but it wasn't something that Henry did it was just an injury. [/QUOTE] He did hurt Batista, and his previous runs he took out guys....And there is a reason that they are called sqaushes.....to make him look good......IT IS CALLED A PUSH...... Do i have to give you all a class called Pro-Wrestling 101...... [url]http://rapidshare.de/files/21793682/Ikuto_Hidaka___Minoru_Fujita_vs_Kota_Iifushi___Crazy_Boy__Zero-One_Max_55_.wmv.html[/url] - Wrestling, what Vinny Mac forgot about - Good Tag Team workers......Guy in the Mask is Super Crazy cousin. [url]http://rapidshare.de/files/21802778/Minoru_Suzuki_vs._Katsuhiko_Nakajima__AJPW_Banquet_97_.wmv.html[/url] - Minoru Suzuki is a MMA trained, Pro Wrestler who is a former Work Shooter....What alot of guys who Worked in Battle Arts, Rings, Kingdom, any work shoot has the style of ......The Kid, i say that becuase he is only 17 years old.......BETTER WORKER THAN MOST OF THE WWE roster...... [url]http://rapidshare.de/files/21810161/Yoshie__Raijin___Brute_Issei_vs_Taiyo_Kea__Buchanan___D-Lo_Brown__AJPW_Banquet_97_.wmv.html[/url] - Yoshie is just a little taller than me, but about 90 lbs heavier.....He sells the monster type worker good..... Really the Henry marks are the same guys who thought the Goldberg was a great wrestler...... 10 - 15 moves doesnt make you a wrestler......you are a brawler......not a wrestler.........Benoit, Malenko, Eddie, Am Dragon, even Samoa Joe are wrestlers........Becuase they can wrestle......

[panix04]

[QUOTE=darkfire423]What you guys are taking in that Mat Wrestlers in MMA really can wrestle. BJJ also use alot takedown (armdrags, leg whips, etc) in which you have to throw a fighter becuase no one wants to really hurt someone. They dont want to win like that. Well Tito vs Shamrock i am sure the they want the other to die but that is it. Alot of guys can make the jump to Wrestler. even a second rate worker like Bob Sapp can wrestle better the alot of the super size guys in the WWE becuase he is a MMA worker. Here is what i did Trained pro wrestlers - 50 + on their basic skills - Also think Gerco Roman wrestling trains alot of guys to take minor bumps when they get taked down so their weight is landing on one spot. - BJJ and Mat guys are in the 30s to 40s - Rest are under 30 Psychology - "This is how good the worker is at both keeping the fans interested in the match, and making the match flow correctly. In a regular singles match only one of the workers really needs to have a high Psychology rating, as he can lead the opponent through." - Now me being the Stiff monkey that i am, to me seeing stiff kicks and Not alot of selling gets fans in to the the match. For those who been to a show. when you hear a loud SMACK from a butal chop or kick dont you guys all go "EWWWHEW".....think about it - Also i think this in the programing doesnt really mean jack becuase you can have a guy with no overness and great Psychology and still get a match that the crowd likes. Reallly people it is a thing. Chances are if they do get hired in the data it is going to a promotion like NOAH or NJPW. Judge but alot of the "Wrestling Fans" who are posting here they wont get played. To set them on Hitaus is a bad idea. You might have just not put them in then. Becuase someone never comes back from Hitaus. Right now i am waiting for Becky Bayless to come back in my T-zone game.......8 years and still nothing........PWG is the largest company in the world too but that is my doing........ What alot of people dont think about. MMA guys wont have great Selling, But Meancing should be jacked up becuase even a guy the size of Mark Henry really should feel that Mirko Cro Cop can and prolly try to kill him. Henry can act mean and has the size to make some one go wow. But he is only 6'8 like 380......to a wrestler the size of even Jindrak who is about the same height and in the 260's he isnt that good looking. But he got enough acting skills to make it work......But his basics suck, selling sucks, really WWE is the only place that he would work becuase of his track record of hurting people and being stiff.......you guys all are drooling over him becuase he got pushed.....same with KAHLI.......who shouldnt have any basic, safety, Psychology, selling........he DID KILL A GUY WITH A MESSED UP MOVE....... really the WWE is employing a killer......think about that one guys.....[/QUOTE] i cant stand mark henry or khali, but in Khali's defence he didnt mess up the move - the guy who sold it should not have been taking that move - i believe it was a flapjack, but im not sure. The way i heard it was that the guy who died was still concust from a previous show and lied about his condition.

[Grimmas]

[QUOTE=darkfire423]He did hurt Batista, and his previous runs he took out guys....And there is a reason that they are called sqaushes.....to make him look good......IT IS CALLED A PUSH...... Do i have to give you all a class called Pro-Wrestling 101...... [url]http://rapidshare.de/files/21793682/Ikuto_Hidaka___Minoru_Fujita_vs_Kota_Iifushi___Crazy_Boy__Zero-One_Max_55_.wmv.html[/url] - Wrestling, what Vinny Mac forgot about - Good Tag Team workers......Guy in the Mask is Super Crazy cousin. [url]http://rapidshare.de/files/21802778/Minoru_Suzuki_vs._Katsuhiko_Nakajima__AJPW_Banquet_97_.wmv.html[/url] - Minoru Suzuki is a MMA trained, Pro Wrestler who is a former Work Shooter....What alot of guys who Worked in Battle Arts, Rings, Kingdom, any work shoot has the style of ......The Kid, i say that becuase he is only 17 years old.......BETTER WORKER THAN MOST OF THE WWE roster...... [url]http://rapidshare.de/files/21810161/Yoshie__Raijin___Brute_Issei_vs_Taiyo_Kea__Buchanan___D-Lo_Brown__AJPW_Banquet_97_.wmv.html[/url] - Yoshie is just a little taller than me, but about 90 lbs heavier.....He sells the monster type worker good..... Really the Henry marks are the same guys who thought the Goldberg was a great wrestler...... 10 - 15 moves doesnt make you a wrestler......you are a brawler......not a wrestler.........Benoit, Malenko, Eddie, Am Dragon, even Samoa Joe are wrestlers........Becuase they can wrestle......[/QUOTE] Hmm... I have been watching wrestling since 1986 and have been watching wrestling all over the world. Goldberg was never great in the ring, but what does that matter? Who has Mark Henry injured? The only person I can think of is Lance Storm, but then Lance Storm wrote an article about how it wasn't Henry's fault it was just an accident. Don't give me any of the puro elitist either. Heck Akira Taue and Toshiaki Kawada were two of my favourites of all time. Tell me how it is Henry's fault that Batista is out? The guy who has been injury proned his whole career, who was working with an injury all already and who was on steroids? Everybody knows moves dont' make the wrestler. Heck Ric Flair had like 3 moves. Watch a Mark Henry match and tell me what he does bad, besides that Angle match at the Rumble. He knows what to do in the rnig and doesn't do stuff he can't. He plays his character better than most in the WWE. He's not Finlay, Benoit, Regal, or Rey, but so what? It's not like he's the Great Khali either. He's very adept at what he is doing.

[TCP1]

I quite like Mark Henry when he is in a tag team match (Easier to hide flaws). He should probably go to ECW, because Heyman knows how to shield a guys weakness better than most!

[darkfire423]

[QUOTE=Grimmas]Hmm... I have been watching wrestling since 1986 and have been watching wrestling all over the world. Goldberg was never great in the ring, but what does that matter? Who has Mark Henry injured? The only person I can think of is Lance Storm, but then Lance Storm wrote an article about how it wasn't Henry's fault it was just an accident. Don't give me any of the puro elitist either. Heck Akira Taue and Toshiaki Kawada were two of my favourites of all time. Tell me how it is Henry's fault that Batista is out? The guy who has been injury proned his whole career, who was working with an injury all already and who was on steroids? Everybody knows moves dont' make the wrestler. Heck Ric Flair had like 3 moves. Watch a Mark Henry match and tell me what he does bad, besides that Angle match at the Rumble. He knows what to do in the rnig and doesn't do stuff he can't. He plays his character better than most in the WWE. He's not Finlay, Benoit, Regal, or Rey, but so what? It's not like he's the Great Khali either. He's very adept at what he is doing.[/QUOTE] well if you understand any thing about Steroids that they help you heal faster, it is the only good side effect of the drug......And yes Batista has had injury problems.....But working with less stiff workers also helps this.... Umm Henry did hurt Angle ribs.....he is working thru it.....but shouldnt be becuase of his neck and should have time off.....I think that is why he is going to ECW....Henry has had a track record of hurting people, minor or major the record is truely there.... Flair now uses 3 moves....and as he got older he stop doing stuff.. but he is also like 57.......even the legend Lou Thez was slowing at 57......and had his last match at like 80 but still anyway......He is getting old..... Really i think it is just sour grapes and really WWE should work more on the in ring.....but that isnt what sells and it just really really rubs me the wrong way.....

[toddthebod]

Guys like Tito Ortiz and Rampage have good mic skills but you forgot Mike Swick, Brandon Vera, Rich Franklin these guys have good charisma also. I will say this once again about the On Hiatus thing. If you are the WWE, you can go out and sign away every single great wrestler in the world. Maybe, I should repeat this as it doesn't seemed to be listened to..IF YOU ARE THE WWE IN THIS GAME, YOU CAN SIGN EVERY SINGLE GREAT WRESTLER IN THE WORLD!! I've simulated a month now and only ONE MMA person has been signed and that was Jeff Monson who signed with JAPW. That still leaves 30 some guys who haven't signed. I truly think that it's unfair for me to have no say in whether my guys that I spent well over a week creating are going to even be used in this game but I should have considered that. I don't think that people should have to go through and edit who they want to be Active or not. As, I've said before, most people won't even play this game long enough for the people to even come into the data, which is a lot of hard work down the drain. The people are free agents for a reason and the MMA people have more of a place in a wrestling fed then some celebrity or famous people. I just hope that the right call will be made and they all will be active as this seems to be the product of two or three people not wanting it. Also, to darkfire, remember to make relationships as some of your guys will be mentor's and protege's of guys that I've created. I don't want to sound sour guys or anything and not stupid but why put people in a game if they are On Hiatus or something. When T-Zone came out for this game and the last game, not one person complained about Vitor, Tito, Ken, Dan Severn for being in the game and such. If it's going to be a huge thing then, don't put them in and I will send everyone that wants the MMA guys my data. Thanks again for the support and such as I'm probably taking this harder then I should be.

[Johnny Fenoli]

[QUOTE=Johnny Fenoli] I dont say any of this to knock ToddtheBod or Darkfire at all. I've personally seen the work Todd's done, and for the most part it all looks good. I've been a strong proponet of the MMA guys being in the data, since I've been in love with the sport since the first UFC event. So, I hope nothing is taken in vain. Keep up the good work that you two are doing, dont let anything I or anyone else says or has said discourage you.[/QUOTE] quoted for emphasis

[BlizzardVeers]

This is the only one I have at that moment! If it's no good, I'll end up making one. I don't remember where this one came from though. :( [attachment=344:name]

[Rams]

What is the point of adding them if they are all inactive, it's just a waste? toddthebod spent a lot of time adding in new workers for us to use. If you don't want them in your game then take ten minutes out of your day and make them inactive. Hell I'll take ten minutes out of my day and offer a MMA free version of it after release if TCP doesn't. Personally I'm excited about the MMA guys. I've become a big fan of the UFC recently and I will be adding some of these guys to my roster.

[TCP1]

MMA guys will be exactly how toddthebod and darkfire set them to be. I'll leave it in their hands. The only thing I might tinker with is bios (If there are any spelling mistakes) or gimmicks. BTW are you guys using my latest gimmick list for your created guys. It will make my life a whole hell of a lot easier if you are.