Can I ask a serious question?

[redhilleagle]

1)

 

2) Some players want a bit of challenge. Right now finances are way too easy where even not being exploitative like running constant schedule there is almost no challenge once you get on the right broadcaster.

 

 

I'd like to know what you're doing, 'cos I'm losing half a million every month. To be fair, lots of people have said it's easy to make money, so I must be doing something wrong.

 

I had a few workers on about 6000 a month for 6-9 months, then when their contract is up, they are asking for about 30000 - 45000. I must be doing something wrong.

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="wolfwwe" data-cite="wolfwwe" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50648" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>For me, the reason I ever use the in-game editor is to make it more realistic because i see an obvious flaw in the mod i'm using.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It's an invaluable resource to allow you to curb randomness, get information, and micromanage the AI to make sure the world is stable. Without the editor long term saves would never be possible. And it's a hugely overlooked feature by Adam if this design is anything to go by.</p>

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="D-Lyrium" data-cite="D-Lyrium" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50648" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This, to me, is the main point.<p> </p><p> Exploits that can be 'abused' without really knowing they're exploits, are IMO bugs. For instance, the constant schedule issue. If you're running a constant schedule and have four annual events per month, you might not consider it an exploit. You might just assume you're doing really well and gaining huge amounts of pop and money. It's not the player's fault in that situation, it's the game's fault. So it should definitely be fixed.</p><p> </p><p> <strong>Exploits, IMO, are things like constantly using Sam Keith in MAW angles to artificially increase storyline heat. Or constantly spamming guys like John Cena/The Undertaker on WWE shows to get artificially inflated ratings. There's nothing "wrong" with doing that, it's not a problem that needs to be fixed.</strong></p><p> </p><p> But if you're using an 'exploit' that isn't supposed to be in the game (like running four "annual" events per month and enjoying much more pop gain and income than someone running four weekly events per month), that is a problem that shouldn't exist and needs to be fixed.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This isn't an exploit, at all. That's just clever use of game mechanics. Where would USPW be if Sam Strong didn't spam himself 20 times a show in 2010? T-Rex vs. Peter Valentine probably. I don't think it's an exploit to have a star and leverage them correctly. If WWE today knew how to spam Lesnar 20 times a night, have him run in and F-5 everybody, and pay him 50M a year, wrestling might be watchable on Friday nights. Instead, I have to pretend Charlotte is a star.</p>

[radical]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="CashBowels" data-cite="CashBowels" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50648" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The game doesn't allow you to have more than 900 million. Anything more will just tell you that it's above the max value allowed and it won't add the value.<p> </p><p> From the wording of the patch (which to be fair, I have not played) I can only infer that the max value which is 900 million has been lowered for "balancing" reasons but the point is that if I am choosing to use the in-game editor to give me that much money, balance is is the last thing on my mind.</p><p> </p><p> If I am wrong then someone feel free to point it out.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You most likely are wrong. You can currently give companies a max of 999,999,999,- currency and that amount doesn't really make sense as a balancing limit. Technical reasons are much more likely as reason with this sum.</p><p> However, the wording in the change log can be interpreted both ways.</p><p> </p><p> On topic:</p><p> I am pretty sure, that this is more of an "it feels like" situation, at least as far as the patches go. If you look at the change log, there aren't a lot of limiters except for tech reasons.</p><p> There are however a number of things missing from previous iterations of the game, some of which are quite baffling and even though I personally don't miss anything so far, I agree thy should be added if technically possible.</p>

[Bull]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Makhai" data-cite="Makhai" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50648" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This isn't an exploit, at all. That's just clever use of game mechanics. Where would USPW be if Sam Strong didn't spam himself 20 times a show in 2010? T-Rex vs. Peter Valentine probably. I don't think it's an exploit to have a star and leverage them correctly. If WWE today knew how to spam Lesnar 20 times a night, have him run in and F-5 everybody, and pay him 50M a year, wrestling might be watchable on Friday nights. Instead, I have to pretend Charlotte is a star.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I really don't see what difference your going for between clever use and exploit?</p><p> </p><p> I can't imagine any scenario where I'd want to see the same person in every single angle on every single show regardless of what they are doing and who they are. . While you can do that in the game and get away with it I don't see any way you could attempt that in real life and not have the crowd start crapping on the person eventually. . Might just be me personally but I definitely wouldn't want to have Brock Lesnar F-5ing people every 10 minutes on a 3 hour show lol. .</p>

[Bull]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="CashBowels" data-cite="CashBowels" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50648" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The game doesn't allow you to have more than 900 million. Anything more will just tell you that it's above the max value allowed and it won't add the value.<p> </p><p> From the wording of the patch (which to be fair, I have not played) I can only infer that the max value which is 900 million has been lowered for "balancing" reasons but the point is that if I am choosing to use the in-game editor to give me that much money, balance is is the last thing on my mind.</p><p> </p><p> If I am wrong then someone feel free to point it out.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It was lowered because it was literally crashing the game in some instances because the game couldn't parse the numbers. Someone had went in and maxed out their finances and gave another company the same amount in debt to try and buy them out and it was crashing their game. .</p>

[Makhai]

I really don't see what difference your going for between clever use and exploit?

 

I can't imagine any scenario where I'd want to see the same person in every single angle on every single show regardless of what they are doing and who they are. . While you can do that in the game and get away with it I don't see any way you could attempt that in real life and not have the crowd start crapping on the person eventually. . Might just be me personally but I definitely wouldn't want to have Brock Lesnar F-5ing people every 10 minutes on a 3 hour show lol. .

 

Really, let's book it

 

Show open 15min Promo by Seth: Brock Lesnar runs out and F-5s him

 

Women's Match The Iconics vs. Ember Moon and Naomi, Brock runs out, and F-5s everybody.

 

Backstage promo with Vega's crew. - F-5, F-5, F-5. F-5

 

Charly asks Kevin Owens about... F-5, F-5.

 

Stupid 24/7 segment, F-5s for everybody

 

Some horrible comedy spot to pop Vince, F-5

 

Becky does a promo from home picking out baby clothes, he F-5's the TV off the wall.

 

Edge and Randy ad spot for the "GREATEST WRESTLING MATCH EVER!" animated Brock shows up and F-5's all the words and the pics of Edge and Randy

 

Main Event: Jeff Hardy is drunk and stumbling to the ring for his match against McIntyre... Brock runs in F-5, F-5 into a wall, Picks him up and carries him to the top of Everest and F-5's him into oblivion.

 

Show ends. Best Smackdown ever.

[FrankerZ]

Really, let's book it

 

Show open 15min Promo by Seth: Brock Lesnar runs out and F-5s him

 

Women's Match The Iconics vs. Ember Moon and Naomi, Brock runs out, and F-5s everybody.

 

Backstage promo with Vega's crew. - F-5, F-5, F-5. F-5

 

Charly asks Kevin Owens about... F-5, F-5.

 

Stupid 24/7 segment, F-5s for everybody

 

Some horrible comedy spot to pop Vince, F-5

 

Becky does a promo from home picking out baby clothes, he F-5's the TV off the wall.

 

Edge and Randy ad spot for the "GREATEST WRESTLING MATCH EVER!" animated Brock shows up and F-5's all the words and the pics of Edge and Randy

 

Main Event: Jeff Hardy is drunk and stumbling to the ring for his match against McIntyre... Brock runs in F-5, F-5 into a wall, Picks him up and carries him to the top of Everest and F-5's him into oblivion.

 

Show ends. Best Smackdown ever.

Honestly, that sounds like the best show ever. So maybe there is an argument to be made.

[Teh_Showtime]

Even in game terms, there’s nothing unrealistic at all about using the same person in 3-4 angles on a single show (which will be up to 100% of your angles grade depending on product).

 

The late 90s was taken to new heights on this very behavior

[Remianen]

I really don't see what difference your going for between clever use and exploit?

 

I can't imagine any scenario where I'd want to see the same person in every single angle on every single show regardless of what they are doing and who they are. . While you can do that in the game and get away with it I don't see any way you could attempt that in real life and not have the crowd start crapping on the person eventually. . Might just be me personally but I definitely wouldn't want to have Brock Lesnar F-5ing people every 10 minutes on a 3 hour show lol. .

 

You're forgetting angle focus. If your angle focus is Highlights, you only need to use that person in three angles and you're set. But I totally agree with Makhai. Using your most popular worker(s) is smart. Those workers can make stars out of the people you need for the second line ('Star' level) and give you options for future creative decisions.

 

With the Brock example, you wouldn't need him to F5 everyone. If he's pissed off because he lost the title or won't just be given a title shot, he can disrupt the show by coming out/showing up once per hour and F5ing anyone he runs into, whether in the ring or backstage. That disruption would force "the powers that be" to acquiesce to his demands or "suspend" him. While "suspended", he can be "banned from the building" and wreak havoc in the parking lot (F5ing people as they arrive to the show). Set it up as like a mystery attacker (there's even default angles for that). That allows you to use Brock for multiple weeks until such time as you decide to reveal him as the mystery attacker.

 

Using Sam Keith multiple times per show isn't exploiting. He's the owner, after all, and easily the best authority figure they have. Also probably the only person you could use in angles on events without getting massively dinged (isn't their match ratio like 95/5?).

[Dave E Mac]

I find the exploit thing a weird one as never seen TEW as a game you win and lose. If you exploit/cheat you're only cheating yourself. But then I really see it as more of a fantasy booking thing and concentrate more on the stories than the grades.

[FrankerZ]

I think what some people may fail to take into consideration is that while it's completely optional to "use the exploits" (if they only affect the player, and AI and game world imbalances don't come into play) people are sort of "wired to win" when playing, or engaging in pretty much anything. So, if it becomes the rational thing to do to succeed, a lot of people will just use the methods that grant them the best returns. But, in doing so, they kill their immersion. So they're faced with a dilemma: play "suboptimally" to preserve the immersion, or use the "exploits" but lose all immersion and get reminded of the fact that they are simply cheating a spreadsheet system.

 

It does lead to a better game when the experience is kept realistic when possible.

[The Nickman]

I think what some people may fail to take into consideration is that while it's completely optional to "use the exploits" (if they only affect the player, and AI and game world imbalances don't come into play) people are sort of "wired to win" when playing, or engaging in pretty much anything. So, if it becomes the rational thing to do to succeed, a lot of people will just use the methods that grant them the best returns. But, in doing so, they kill their immersion. So they're faced with a dilemma: play "suboptimally" to preserve the immersion, or use the "exploits" but lose all immersion and get reminded of the fact that they are simply cheating a spreadsheet system.

 

It does lead to a better game when the experience is kept realistic when possible.

I dunno man, I book my shows fairly realistically like you’d see a late-90s Raw or Nitro and I’ve never had any issues at all hitting high 80s or low 90s for my shows in any version of the game.

 

And I DON’T try to book any sort of exploits at all. Just how I think a show should go based on the era/roster.

 

What spins me out is people that do silly things like book every match on TV at 15 minutes plus to avoid a penalty they never would’ve got in the first place. You literally don’t need to do stuff like that in this game, and never have.

[absolutelyridiculous]

I think it would take a pretty big overhaul of how the game works to move it away from a maybe not super-realistic "more shows = more growth = better" model at some level. But all you had to do was move a random AI company to constant schedule and watch its growth to see that this change needed to be made.

[The Nickman]

I think it would take a pretty big overhaul of how the game works to move it away from a maybe not super-realistic "more shows = more growth = better" model at some level. But all you had to do was move a random AI company to constant schedule and watch its growth to see that this change needed to be made.

This has been nerfed somewhat in the latest patch, hasn’t it?

[Donners]

This has been nerfed somewhat in the latest patch, hasn’t it?

 

Somewhat. I had a game where two AI companies used it. One went from attendance of ~16k/week to ~4k/week, but the other is still at ~33k/week, down from ~40k.

 

I think I'll have to test it from the start, as the growth caps will have an impact as well.

[xXUnderGroundXx]

Wow, this thread has seriously blown up in a way I didn't expect. Glad to see so much discussion generated! Personally, I'm on the side of "keep your goddamned hands off my editor", because changes to the in-game editor fundamentally disable players FROM playing the way they want to. This "it's a harder base game but you can use the editor to change that" mentality only works if you CAN use the editor to change that, but with features like changing a wrestler's availability conspicuously absent from this version of the game, I feel very much like I'm being "railroaded" into a more serious, metagamey play style than I ever would've chosen for myself.

 

I'm getting good ratings on my shows, that's fine. I don't have quite as much control over my product as I'd like, but I'm learning to live with it. But with the powers that be seeming to favour consumers who play the game "properly", and evidently more than willing to make alterations to the editor with only concern for how it mechanically affects the code rather than the actual gameplay effects on users, I just...worry. I REALLY want to like this game more than TEW2016, there's so much here that's cool and has potential...but if they push things too far in one direction, I may find myself forced to downgrade to get back the things I enjoy.

 

Just my two cents, though; for the moment I'm still enjoying the game, I just wanted to bring up this topic to see where everyone else stands. Loving the dialogue so far!

[Some Kind of Bird]

Yeah, harder base game with a powerful editor as a tool for sandboxers, as well as powerful User Preferences, I think, is a good middleground way to go.

[xXUnderGroundXx]

Yeah, harder base game with a powerful editor as a tool for sandboxers, as well as powerful User Preferences, I think, is a good middleground way to go.

 

Completely agree, although it seems like they're not going in this direction, and may instead just be trying to move away from the sandbox feel altogether, which is concerning and disappointing if true. I guess we'll have to wait and see where things go from here, though.

[Hawk1665]

<p>Because you're playing a simulation game of the wrestling world. If you just want free form to do or exploit whatever you want, just write out your own stuff as a V-Fed. You'll get more creative expression doing that and you won't be hamstrung by "rules". I know because I did it and E-fedding for twenty years give or take.</p><p> </p><p>

I want balance in the game because it's a <em>game</em> first and foremost.</p>

[xXUnderGroundXx]

Because you're playing a simulation game of the wrestling world. If you just want free form to do or exploit whatever you want, just write out your own stuff as a V-Fed. You'll get more creative expression doing that and you won't be hamstrung by "rules". I know because I did it and E-fedding for twenty years give or take.

 

I want balance in the game because it's a game first and foremost.

 

And games are intended to be fun. If a whole host of players aren't having fun playing your game, does that not mean - on some level - that it's a poor game? Or is this just "not for me" and I should go spend my time doing something else because the thought of me having fun differently than you do makes you irrationally angry?

 

Again, I have NO PROBLEM with balance existing in this game. What I do have a problem with are attitudes like yours, this "if you don't like it, play something else" mentality, when all I'm really asking for is stuff that either existed in the game already but was removed, or COULD exist - OPTIONALLY, for only players who wanted it - with relatively little effort. I'm saying this is advertised as a sandbox game, and yes, it's a simulator, but it's ALSO a fantasy booker. So am I truly unreasonable for asking that we don't drive out the fantasy booking players in favour of the sim lovers? I spent 35ish dollars on the game just like you did, do I not deserve to be able to enjoy it just as much?

[djthefunkchris]

Because you're playing a simulation game of the wrestling world. If you just want free form to do or exploit whatever you want, just write out your own stuff as a V-Fed. You'll get more creative expression doing that and you won't be hamstrung by "rules". I know because I did it and E-fedding for twenty years give or take.

 

I want balance in the game because it's a game first and foremost.

 

So you're basically telling them to just not buy this game, it's not for them, it's for people that want the "game" part more than the sandbox part. They can easily play 2016 instead, as it is balanced for both.

 

That's perfectly fair. 2016 is an awesome game, and people don't need to get the new one if it's not really an upgrade of the older one, just a different game that stresses on the game part more than the sandbox part.

 

I'm going to wait and see if things get balanced out better or not, I'm fine either way.

[Dave E Mac]

Because you're playing a simulation game of the wrestling world. If you just want free form to do or exploit whatever you want, just write out your own stuff as a V-Fed. You'll get more creative expression doing that and you won't be hamstrung by "rules". I know because I did it and E-fedding for twenty years give or take.

 

I want balance in the game because it's a game first and foremost.

 

Ultimately I think one is issue is I was a day one buyer. I played the mess that was a beta but still sunk my cash into the game as I’ve enjoyed the games for the last two releases in 13 and 16. I know this isn’t some fifa franchise where they update the rosters and chucked out a new version every year and take you cash. Thought and care goes into each tew. It’s a game that seems to listen to it’s players and improve. So that sort of trust means I’ll pay my money for it. I will say I am trying to get into it but it’s the least fun tew I’ve personally played. Previous games hooked you and you found your groove how you wanted to enjoy it. 20 feels like an acquired taste. I’m trying to force myself to enjoy it and find my way to play that I like. Sadly I feel it’s become more of a game that has a set way to play it for it to work. Some of the new features just haven’t been implemented as I expected. In my mind there’s much bette ways to do so and I’m struggling to understand why my tiny mind has cooked up better ways for it to work than the actual game developer. But the bottom line is the game should be fun and finding that element of fun should be easy. I don’t personally have loads of time for video games and as such the idea of sitting down for half an hour with tew to try and find my love for it just isn’t appealing.

 

I guess in some ways this maybe means the game isn’t for it. But I struggle to understand why that’s come about because I’ve been a loyal fan of the games for literally years. Hats off and good luck to those who are really enjoying it and honestly I just wish I could find that same sort of enjoyment from it.

[radical]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Dave E Mac" data-cite="Dave E Mac" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50648" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Ultimately I think one is issue is I was a day one buyer. I played the mess that was a beta but still sunk my cash into the game as I’ve enjoyed the games for the last two releases in 13 and 16. I know this isn’t some fifa franchise where they update the rosters and chucked out a new version every year and take you cash. Thought and care goes into each tew. It’s a game that seems to listen to it’s players and improve. So that sort of trust means I’ll pay my money for it. I will say I am trying to get into it but it’s the least fun tew I’ve personally played. Previous games hooked you and you found your groove how you wanted to enjoy it. 20 feels like an acquired taste. I’m trying to force myself to enjoy it and find my way to play that I like. Sadly I feel it’s become more of a game that has a set way to play it for it to work. Some of the new features just haven’t been implemented as I expected. In my mind there’s much bette ways to do so and I’m struggling to understand why my tiny mind has cooked up better ways for it to work than the actual game developer. But the bottom line is the game should be fun and finding that element of fun should be easy. I don’t personally have loads of time for video games and as such the idea of sitting down for half an hour with tew to try and find my love for it just isn’t appealing. <p> </p><p> I guess in some ways this maybe means the game isn’t for it. But I struggle to understand why that’s come about because I’ve been a loyal fan of the games for literally years. Hats off and good luck to those who are really enjoying it and honestly I just wish I could find that same sort of enjoyment from it.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Out of curiosity, what does stand in your way to play the game the way you want it to play. I've read this statement quite a few times on here, yet most of the time no examples are given. I'm playing both, serious and sandbox games and I personally don't miss that many things. Certainly not enough to hinder me having fun.Also did you write about those things on the tech or suggestions boards?</p><p> </p><p> Secondly, I don't mean the following in an insulting way. </p><p> If you think you know better than the dev of how to do stuff, do it. Don't just say it. Saying things like "even my tiny mind..." is arrogant. Doesn't mean you are not allowed to criticize but you should not do it like this. If you are indeed that good, don't say it, do it.</p>

[Questlove]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="xXUnderGroundXx" data-cite="xXUnderGroundXx" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50648" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>And <em>games</em> are intended to be <em>fun</em>. If a whole host of players aren't having fun playing your game, does that not mean - on some level - that it's a poor game? Or is this just "not for me" and I should go spend my time doing something else because the thought of me having fun differently than you do makes you irrationally angry?<p> </p><p> Again, I have NO PROBLEM with balance existing in this game. What I <em>do</em> have a problem with are attitudes like yours, this "if you don't like it, play something else" mentality, when all I'm really asking for is stuff that either existed in the game already but was removed, or COULD exist - OPTIONALLY, for only players who wanted it - with relatively little effort. I'm saying this is advertised as a sandbox game, and yes, it's a simulator, but it's ALSO a fantasy booker. So am I truly unreasonable for asking that we don't drive out the fantasy booking players in favour of the sim lovers? I spent 35ish dollars on the game just like you did, do I not deserve to be able to enjoy it just as much?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You're not asking for optional things though. Your original post specifically talks about companies gaining popularity and money too quickly, which isn't something that's limited to the player. Left the way it is, it completely throws off the entire balance of the game and causes AI companies and workers to fly off into the stratosphere. Not that this is a problem that's new to 2020, it was in 2016 as well, but it's definitely amplified now.</p><p> </p><p> Maybe you enjoy that, but a lot of people don't (it's one of my biggest issues with TEW and always has been), and it's not something you can just flip on and off with a switch. If you wanna gain a ton of popularity and money, you can just use the editor. What am I gonna do, balance every company and worker in the world throughout my save after every show?</p>