What causes Star Quality stat to change?

[aznironman]

I usually only hire C- and above when it comes to Star Quality and give A* the biggest pushes. Then I hire D+ and below as PPA jobbers to put over those with less overness. I hired Ota a while back, who had a D+ Star Quality stat and over a course of 6 months of doing jobs (never 'burial' but usually 'keep strong' road agent stat), he had a C- Star Quality stat. I randomly noticed this when looking at his stats. What caused it to change? Is there a way to improve this stat by the way you use them? Or is it random?

[Moe Hunter]

Hmm, I've only ever noticed it change when you get the random incident of going to make a movie, it shoots up to A*.

[FINisher]

It is one of those stats that can change in the long run, altough quite little. The change from D+ to C- is really, really small. :P

[LFC_chris]

I don't see why it should ever change. Surely star quality is something you either have or don't have? I don't think it can be manufactured in any way.

[Hyde Hill]

Exposure in high quality matches etc.

[Comradebot]

I've noticed it change ever so slightly for some people. I could see this from a realistic standpoint. Perhaps a worker over time could find a way, or stumble into, that special X factor that can make them a star. Maybe as they age their appearance starts to change a bit and it just happens to work for em, or maybe they do something in-ring that just begs to take notice. Or, of course, they could film a movie and become stars overnight. God I hope Boris Kiriyikan stars in some cheesy Russian flick.

[Malioc]

[QUOTE=LFC_chris;461701]I don't see why it should ever change. Surely star quality is something you either have or don't have?[/QUOTE] Nope. You're wrong. In reality you can develope it like anything else. - Most people just rarely do it (a lot).

[cyberkitten01]

I've seen a few workers go from low grades such as D- to a D+ when they win the (Regional) promotion's main title for the first time. I'm not sure if it's an age thing either, as I've had a lovely female worker reach the age of 21, and her star power went from C to C+ and her sex appeal went from B+ to A-

[Wildfire1324]

It makes sense to me that star quality can change over time. No one was talking about what great star quality "The Blue Chipper" Rocky Maivia had but even a blind man could tell that the Rock was oozing with star quality. Another example would be Steve Austin I think. Stunning Steve Austin may have had some but Stone Cold Steve Austin had it to spare. Sometimes you need to be put into a position for people to see your star quality. That's my two cents. :)

[LFC_chris]

[QUOTE=Wildfire1324;461786]It makes sense to me that star quality can change over time. No one was talking about what great star quality "The Blue Chipper" Rocky Maivia had but even a blind man could tell that the Rock was oozing with star quality. Another example would be Steve Austin I think. Stunning Steve Austin may have had some but Stone Cold Steve Austin had it to spare. Sometimes you need to be put into a position for people to see your star quality. That's my two cents. :)[/QUOTE] That may be the case, but surely the potential to become a star (ie star quality) was there from the start? It needed the right gimmick for them to reach the heights they did. That would be my opinion on it anyway.

[lazorbeak]

[QUOTE=Wildfire1324;461786]It makes sense to me that star quality can change over time. No one was talking about what great star quality "The Blue Chipper" Rocky Maivia had but even a blind man could tell that the Rock was oozing with star quality. Another example would be Steve Austin I think. Stunning Steve Austin may have had some but Stone Cold Steve Austin had it to spare. Sometimes you need to be put into a position for people to see your star quality. That's my two cents. :)[/QUOTE] Horrible example as far as The Rock. Rocky's star quality was always there. Look at the guy, even with the big, doofusy Rocky grin he had star quality all over the place. Better example as far as Austin- the shaved head and goatee actually added to his star power. But since star power is defined as the guy's ability to appear to be a "star," of course it could change over time. I mean, a guy like Andre the Giant would always have a huge star quality, but somebody like Ultimate Warrior, whose star quality was at least in part due to his physique, would see that stat drop as he aged. I don't think Ric Flair has ever been mr. star quality- generic look, a little undersized, etc., but Flair in 2008 doesn't have the same star quality he had in 1988. But back on point, star power should be able to change, based on a worker getting in better shape, changing their look and/or style, etc., and should similarly drop somewhat with age.

[Wildfire1324]

[QUOTE=lazorbeak;461801] I don't think Ric Flair has ever been mr. star quality- generic look, a little undersized, etc., but Flair in 2008 doesn't have the same star quality he had in 1988. [/QUOTE] I think Flair absolutely had big time star quality back in the day. He carried himself like the classic "men wanted to be him and women wanted to screw him". Between the suits, the Rolex, the women....Flair seemed to be living the superstar life. As for the Rock, we will have to agree to disagree. I don't think people had him pegged as a huge future star back then.

[lazorbeak]

[QUOTE=Wildfire1324;461821]I think Flair absolutely had big time star quality back in the day. He carried himself like the classic "men wanted to be him and women wanted to screw him". Between the suits, the Rolex, the women....Flair seemed to be living the superstar life. As for the Rock, we will have to agree to disagree. I don't think people had him pegged as a huge future star back then.[/QUOTE] That's a gimmick, not star quality. Star quality is that quality that when your mom or dad or some other mark turns on the TV, they they think "yeah, that guy should be a big deal," just by seeing him. A guy like Brock Lesnar or Hulk Hogan or Ultimate Warrior get in the ring (in their prime), and the casual fan easily buys them as being a major star. Flair's always had amazing charisma, but he was never loaded with star quality. As far as the Rock, if you didn't see his star quality early on, you must've been blinded by his bleached teeth. Seriously, the guy has always had a great superstar look, and even when his GIMMICK was bombing, he was pushed as a major star straight out of the gate, because WWF realized they had a guy with massive star potential on their hands. I think you're having trouble separating a worker's star quality from their gimmick. Think like a mark- you turn on the TV, and John Cena is wrestling Santino- quick, who do you think looks like a legit main eventer? Or say you're watching ECW, and a 7 foot tall guy is wrestling some generic guy in a black shirt- who looks like the superstar? Or say you're watching Smackdown two years ago, and there's a 45 year old guy who isn't physically impressive wrestling a huge, ripped, African-American guy- who's got the higher star quality? A guy with high star power tends to get over based on winning- just showing up on TV and winning matches gets the guy over, because he looks like he should be rising up the ranks to become the champ. Conversely, a guy with low star quality (Mick Foley springs to mind) gets over by putting on fantastic matches and entertaining promos. Quick: which one describes Ric Flair?

[LFC_chris]

[QUOTE=lazorbeak;461801] I don't think Ric Flair has ever been mr. star quality- generic look, a little undersized, etc., but Flair in 2008 doesn't have the same star quality he had in 1988. [/QUOTE] Flair's always had an aura about him that said 'star' IMO.

[Phantom Stranger]

[QUOTE=Hyde Hill;461703]Exposure in high quality matches etc.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure on this one. The guys I've seen develop it in both a sports-entertainment and a legit-wrestling fed haven't been pulling ratings better than you'd expect from their card position.

[Self]

I figure Star Quality is a counterpart to Menace and Sex Appeal nowadays. You've got people who look sexy, a Maria or a John Morrison (or is that just me?) You've got people who look Menacing, a Kane or a Big Daddy V, and then you've got people who look like a star, a John Cena or an Ultimate Warrior. Just a theory. Not sure how well this tracks with the actual game, or the C-Verse. However if I were doing a Mod, this is how I'd think of it. Destiny covers the intangibles for me.

[ritwik]

[quote=lazorbeak]I think you're having trouble separating a worker's star quality from their gimmick. Think like a mark- you turn on the TV, and John Cena is wrestling Santino- quick, who do you think looks like a legit main eventer? Or say you're watching ECW, and a 7 foot tall guy is wrestling some generic guy in a black shirt- who looks like the superstar? Or say you're watching Smackdown two years ago, and there's a 45 year old guy who isn't physically impressive wrestling a huge, ripped, African-American guy- who's got the higher star quality? A guy with high star power tends to get over based on winning- just showing up on TV and winning matches gets the guy over, because he looks like he should be rising up the ranks to become the champ. Conversely, a guy with low star quality (Mick Foley springs to mind) gets over by putting on fantastic matches and entertaining promos. Quick: which one describes Ric Flair? [/quote] From those examples, it seems like you're having trouble differentiating between star quality and looks/sex appeal. Star Quality to me has always been about the "aura" a person has - which may generally be defined by how they look or how they're packaged, but in the case of a guy like Flair, or even HHH, they just "seem to be" potential stars right out of the gate.

[lazorbeak]

[QUOTE=ritwik;462347]From those examples, it seems like you're having trouble differentiating between star quality and looks/sex appeal. Star Quality to me has always been about the "aura" a person has - which may generally be defined by how they look or how they're packaged, but in the case of a guy like Flair, or even HHH, they just "seem to be" potential stars right out of the gate.[/QUOTE] Actually, I'm almost sure I'm not. The second paragraph you quoted makes it pretty clear I don't have problems separating them, as I said pretty much exactly that they "seem to be potential stars" in that all you have to do is put them on TV and give them some wins. But even beyond that, star quality doesn't exist in a vacuum; you'd be hard-pressed to find a guy in the C-verse with amazing star quality but poor looks and/or a poor menace stat. One of those looks stats doesn't guarantee star power- Viscera's certainly "menacing" without having a tremendous amount of star power, but a guy like Big Show (who I already mentioned in my examples) would have both a high menace stat and a very high star quality. Star quality is all about the work involved in getting a guy over- it's easy to get a guy with great star quality over because the crowd just immediately buys the guy as a championship level threat. Big Show, Batista, Brock Lesnar are guys with tremendous star power-look at how quickly they became main eventers. Lesnar's a guy that for sure should have an A* in star quality. Brock beats both Hardyz, wins KOTR, beats RVD, and he's already a main eventer, beating Hulk freaking Hogan cleanly. That's huge star quality. But a lot of fans want to put their favorites in the mod as God's gift to star quality simply because they became a star, ignoring the fact that star quality is not a "destiny" stat, it's a "look" stat. You could look like you were run through a blender and still be a star or a legend or an icon if you manage to get yourself over. I like Flair, but if we're saying "who deserves A/A* star quality" he shouldn't be in the running. Great wrestler, great entertainer, but he was no Adam Bomb in the star quality department.* *In Mick Foley's book, didn't he talk about how Adam Bomb (aka Bryan Clarke, aka Wrath) was singled out as a future champion by Vince McMahon after a trial match against Bret Hart? Clarke's 6'6 and was in good enough shape to do flips during his entrance. I don't think Vince was confused as to who the better wrestler was, but Clarke at the time had more superstar quality, so that even if Hart was carrying him, people came away thinking Clarke was a future star.

[ritwik]

[quote]But a lot of fans want to put their favorites in the mod as God's gift to star quality simply because they became a star, ignoring the fact that star quality is not a "destiny" stat, it's a "look" stat. You could look like you were run through a blender and still be a star or a legend or an icon if you manage to get yourself over. I like Flair, but if we're saying "who deserves A/A* star quality" he shouldn't be in the running. Great wrestler, great entertainer, but he was no Adam Bomb in the star quality department.*[/quote] In his explanation of the star quality stat, Adam Ryland used 3 examples of guys with high star quality - Andre for his massive size, Hogan for his larger than life image, and Flair for the intangible "x-factor". Given that the developer of the game thinks of star quality in these terms, this is how the stat should be used in the game, and consequently Flair should be given a high star quality. In your detailed analysis of star quality, you seem to be missing the fact that some guys have an "x-factor" - their star quality does not come from having a particularly great look, but from that fact that they have a natural tendency to connect with the audience. Apart from looks or menace, maybe charisma [another quite intangible and subjective stat] too plays a role in defining a person's star quality.

[ccgmacc69]

Yea I dont think Look or Menace alone doesnt make star quality. Dusty Rhodes had neither, but that x-factor that he had in his prime put him up there in the B range at least, IMO

[djthefunkchris]

/nod. I think that kind of sums it up a bit better. Star Quality to me is more then a look, or how they "Work" in the ring, but more of a connection to the crowd. If they are "Huge", bigger then life just to look at, that would constitute a higher superstar quality (like for Andre, Show, etc.). But for someone like Flair, he just connected hugely with the audience right off the bat. I always find myself comparing him to Mic Foley. Flair had the ability to make you "care" about him tremendously. Weather you hated him or loved him. He had that presence, that "X-factor" that can light up a room when he walks in. Some people just have the presence that makes you wonder who they are right off the bat. Flair is one of those type of people.