Biggest WWE Underachievers

[lordprimeau25]

So I have never really generated a post on here that warranted any talking about. So if you guys are up for it, how about reeling off some guys in the WWE who you feel are being held down by management (hence underachievement) or have flailed with promos and matches resulting in not getting pushed up the card. I will start with my boy Kamikaze Ken Kennedy. I think he is very talented on the mic and is a good wrestler. He lacks in some ring psychology as he needs to be alongside a good story-teller to have a main event level match. Also, if you really pay attention to his mic skills I think the early Rock comparisons have gotten to his head and he reaches just a little bit too much in trying to get over with the fans rather than just letting it flow like he did in OVW.

[Blasphemywebleed]

Brian Kendrick & Paul London - The most entertaining tag team in WWE, held the Tag Team titles for over a year, yet how often did you see them on PPV? Santino Marella - The guy is pure gold. They have to do something with him soon. William Regal - One of the best technical wrestlers i've had the pleasure of seeing live. Despite the recent suspension he really deserves a decent push. Also looking in the best shape he has been in many years.

[cappyboy]

[QUOTE=lordprimeau25;472917]So I have never really generated a post on here that warranted any talking about. So if you guys are up for it, how about reeling off some guys in the WWE who you feel are being held down by management (hence underachievement) or have flailed with promos and matches resulting in not getting pushed up the card. I will start with my boy Kamikaze Ken Kennedy. I think he is very talented on the mic and is a good wrestler. He lacks in some ring psychology as he needs to be alongside a good story-teller to have a main event level match. Also, if you really pay attention to his mic skills I think the early Rock comparisons have gotten to his head and he reaches just a little bit too much in trying to get over with the fans rather than just letting it flow like he did in OVW.[/QUOTE] You know, I think Kennedy's problem is that there may be one fan who seems like I do for every fan that really likes him. The guy is a decent wrestler. But nothing he does in the ring be it a splashy finisher, a hot hand gesture or even something as simple as a hiptoss that threatens to send you on a tour of the rafters, really stands out. His mic skills, like you noted, while a potential calling card, are a bit stalled. And I'm sorry the dude is in dire need of a physical makeover. Every time he comes out I don't see MISTAAAAAAAA KENNEDY!! ::pauses:: KENNEDY!! I see MISTAAAAAAAAAAA HOLLY!! It seems obvious he's trying to run from his true heritage and as long as he looks like a guy whose "family" has run their course his potential may only go so far. You mention the Rock comparsions on his mic skills. Here's another one for you. What happened when The Rock quit playing the smiley family guy doofus and started letting the effects of his natural charisma show in his persona? Dude shot right through the roof. Kennedy may need to do that too. He talks like he's somebody but his look and his mannerisms don't always carry that through. As a fan of the guy, be brutally honest with me. Do you really see him as a finished product? I don't and I don't know I can get behind him while he still feels unfinished.

[scorpion]

While I'm a fan of both guys and would love to see them get ahead, Kennedy and Regal only have themselves to blame. Santino is getting tv time, so I think its only a matter of time for him My answer would be any tag team that seems to be getting over. Cade and Murdoch were great, so they immediately split them up to give Murdoch a push. London & Kendrick not getting pushed despite being the champions. I could go on and on.

[KarWashKirbz]

Billy Gunn - You may be suprised by my sole choice but he never exactly got the push he deserved within the WWE... oke, one time WWE IC Champ, multiple time Tag champ, but come on, who want's that on your CV when you had the [b]potential[/b] to do a lot more. Funnily enough I met him last night, nice guy :cool:

[Outlawjc]

the McMahon Family. THe shows should be all McMahon all the time. Vince, Shane, Linda, Stef, HHH, there kids....one of them should be in every segment!!!!! (THink Vince will put me on the creative team)

[Self]

The main thing holding Kennedy back is that he doesn't have his own unique character. He was a generic ****y heel, then the generic babyface equivalent. Don't get me wrong, he got noticed. His entrance shtick is really over. His mic skills are good. His fundamentals are good. Some of the little things he does in the ring are great. It's just... and I'm looking at this from the view of a guy who has studied film and the construction of drama for 5 years... he's just missing that little something that makes his character matter, you know? What he needs, is for a WWE writer to take an interest in him. Remember Edge & Christian before they starting doing the 5-second poses? They were very generic guys. Likeable, but nothing special. I think it was Brian Gershowitz (sp?) who realised that their real personalities were very entertaining, and he helped them develop these really cool characters, who were interesting enough to be carry storylines and evolve into the World Champions we have today. Kennedy needs that extra something. An extra character trait. A unique storyline. A metaphor for his existence (like Austin punching Vince was wish fulfillment for an audience who wants to punch their boss). He's really close. Closer than E&C. He's just not there yet... and he keeps getting hurt. He's like Road Dogg, his shtick is more over than he is. I put CM Punk in a similar category, although I think this World Title run may be his extra little thing. His need to prove himself, his relative weakness compared to the other top guys... It's possible they are just jobbing him out for kicks, but I'm giving WWE the benefit of the doubt that this is building to something. A moment when everyone in the stands, and everyone watching at home is cheering, hoping, praying for Punk to get the win. Not just because he's a good worker, or that his opponent is a 'roid rager, but because the story has wove around to the point where deep down, everyone can sympathise and empathise with Punk's struggle, see parallels in their own lives, and feel the need to have him win. Hmm... off-topic a bit. I thought they could have done more with [B]Jerry Lynn[/B]. Any time they put the belt on someone straight off the bat, it's a waste, because the only way from there is down (stole this from Raven, but the man is wise) Oh, speaking of [B]Raven[/B], he could have been something, though I understand why he wasn't. [B]Taz[/B]... although his size was an issue... and he got tired of it all. Very ECW-y list, but that pretty much the only thing I've watched other than WWF and some WCW, so I usually can't judge further afield than that.

[cappyboy]

[QUOTE=Self;473072]The main thing holding Kennedy back is that he doesn't have his own unique character. He was a generic ****y heel, then the generic babyface equivalent. Don't get me wrong, he got noticed. His entrance shtick is really over. His mic skills are good. His fundamentals are good. Some of the little things he does in the ring are great. It's just... and I'm looking at this from the view of a guy who has studied film and the construction of drama for 5 years... he's just missing that little something that makes his character matter, you know? What he needs, is for a WWE writer to take an interest in him. Remember Edge & Christian before they starting doing the 5-second poses? They were very generic guys. Likeable, but nothing special. I think it was Brian Gershowitz (sp?) who realised that their real personalities were very entertaining, and he helped them develop these really cool characters, who were interesting enough to be carry storylines and evolve into the World Champions we have today. Kennedy needs that extra something. An extra character trait. A unique storyline. A metaphor for his existence (like Austin punching Vince was wish fulfillment for an audience who wants to punch their boss). He's really close. Closer than E&C. He's just not there yet... and he keeps getting hurt. He's like Road Dogg, his shtick is more over than he is. [/QUOTE] Very much agreed. Kennedy's missing that extra bit of juice to get him over the hump. And you know I had an idea for him while I eating supper. We all know the big things that have Kennedy over as far as he is are his entrance and his mic skills. What the E should do to push him the rest of the way is have him realize that in character. Kennedy, seeing that his reactions all come from speaking, should be trying to get out of ring time in any and every way possible. He should declare himself the Great Communicator and do everything in his power to try and capture the World Title without ever having to engage in physical contact to get it. Behind the scenes he's trying to find a maketable finisher or hand gesture. Some kind of trademark a la The People's Eyebrow or the F5. But on-camera, he's trying to weasel out of wrestling at all costs and only actually wrestle when the face/management bodily forces him into the ring. This gimmick could be a classic. We've had people lie, cheat and steal their way to the belt. We've had folks try to buy their way to the title. But I don't think I've ever seen anybody try to just talk his way to it. Some of the vignettes could be classics. You could send Kennedy to Alaska and show him selling refrigerators to the Eskimos. Or he could be in the Sahara selling burqas to Bedouin nomads. Maybe getting permission to install a condom machine at a local watering hole in the Vatican. Make him the ultimate salesman who thinks if he can do things like these he can talk fans into arenas and belts off of reigning champions because he talks fans into arenas. But as it stands the man is really in a rut and it will take some kind of update to his character to get him much further than where he is right now.

[tristram]

Shannon Moore, Jimmy Wang Yang and Jamie Noble. They all get minor pushes, and then jobbed out to the big brawling 300 pounder. I'd like to see one of the above take the next step, if not all of them, because I like watching them wrestle. They keep it entertaining in the ring, and frankly they're not bland generic wrestlers, they all have some idiosyncracies.

[lordprimeau25]

[QUOTE=cappyboy;473037]You know, I think Kennedy's problem is that there may be one fan who seems like I do for every fan that really likes him. The guy is a decent wrestler. But nothing he does in the ring be it a splashy finisher, a hot hand gesture or even something as simple as a hiptoss that threatens to send you on a tour of the rafters, really stands out. His mic skills, like you noted, while a potential calling card, are a bit stalled. And I'm sorry the dude is in dire need of a physical makeover. Every time he comes out I don't see MISTAAAAAAAA KENNEDY!! ::pauses:: KENNEDY!! I see MISTAAAAAAAAAAA HOLLY!! It seems obvious he's trying to run from his true heritage and as long as he looks like a guy whose "family" has run their course his potential may only go so far. You mention the Rock comparsions on his mic skills. Here's another one for you. What happened when The Rock quit playing the smiley family guy doofus and started letting the effects of his natural charisma show in his persona? Dude shot right through the roof. Kennedy may need to do that too. He talks like he's somebody but his look and his mannerisms don't always carry that through. As a fan of the guy, be brutally honest with me. Do you really see him as a finished product? I don't and I don't know I can get behind him while he still feels unfinished.[/QUOTE] No I do agree with you, that is what I was saying. Rather than making his mic work seem so rehearsed and thought thru, dude just needs to let it flow. Unfortunately, it is hard to alter a look especially one like his but that alone I think isn't enough to hold him down. I also fault the fed a little bit because they stress pre-written promos for everyone who isn't a main eventer and I think that holds guys down at times as well. I guess time will only tell but I would be interested in everyone's opinion... I know as a biased fan of Ken I see him capable of holding one of the two major titles one day (more likely as a heel). Does anyone else see that being possible?

[lordprimeau25]

[QUOTE=tristram;473107]Shannon Moore, Jimmy Wang Yang and Jamie Noble. They all get minor pushes, and then jobbed out to the big brawling 300 pounder. I'd like to see one of the above take the next step, if not all of them, because I like watching them wrestle. They keep it entertaining in the ring, and frankly they're not bland generic wrestlers, they all have some idiosyncracies.[/QUOTE] Jimmy Yang's ring work really excites me. Unfortunately I think he was given the comedy character gimmick due to his having an "undesirable fed size." Dude would be great as some sort of triad like heel...

[AfRoMaN36]

[QUOTE=KarWashKirbz;473055]Billy Gunn - You may be suprised by my sole choice but he never exactly got the push he deserved within the WWE... oke, one time WWE IC Champ, multiple time Tag champ, but come on, who want's that on your CV when you had the [b]potential[/b] to do a lot more. Funnily enough I met him last night, nice guy :cool:[/QUOTE] Now... I tried to like him, I did. But I found him missing that certain "It" factor. He had the look... he had the talent... but was a black hole of charisma without the Mr. Ass character. And you just can't give the title to a man who is in love with his own ass.

[djthefunkchris]

Jimmy Yang and Murdock teaming up is what I'm hoping for. On Kennedy. I just think it's too early for him right now. He has lots of "Potential" to me, and I aggree with everyone's opinions bassically. I could see him holding any of them, but preferably the spinner. Just seems right to me... too bad it's on the other brand now. MVP could easily be main Event, but he's better for the promotion where he is at the moment. I stated my opinion of him before. Long as he's around, he's a definate Main Eventer if they are without one... he could easily step up to that position easily... Bassically, it's the same way I feel about Big Show and Kane as well.

[MrSelfDestruct]

Imy opinion I think they severely underused Brent Albright (aka Gunner Scott). He has a lot of in ring talent and charisma. I just wish they woulve given him a better chance

[The Ego]

Ken Doane, and as above, Brent was mis-used poorly. In my NWA Pro game, he is a modern holder of the Patriot gimmick.

[Self]

I'm watching Smackdown right now, and I have to say... I'm wrong about Kennedy. He's there. He's over. Fans love interacting with his shtick. That kick he does is awesome. His Downward Spiral is getting over. At any given time, he could be thrown into a Main Event programme, and in a month, he could be champion. However, I don't think he needs to be a World Champion to justify his existence. Let him play around at the US Title scene for a while. Let him entertain the crowds. Let him fight some talented midcarders. Let him do some comedy. There's a ton of Main Event players up there already, who have been in the company longer, and deserve is more. There's no rush.

[panix04]

I agree that more could have been done with Raven. His debut was just uber cool. Running in the ring and delivering, what i think is one of the coolest looking DDT's in the business - loved it! Kane has been mis-used for years and even though he is a big guy, he can go, plus he's supposedly a really nice guy backstage. Not really been misues, but i'd love to see Shane O'mac back in the ring. I know technically he was no Kurt Angle. But his matches always seemed to flow really well and damn did that guy go the extra yard! Tajiri I thought was mis-used too. He was getting tremendous crowd pops from his cool and unusual moves and then got buried by booker T in a feud unrelated to Tajiri after that he became a Heat mainstay, killed his momentum dead. Christian - doesn't really need explaining, he was as good as Edge and following his big "mania moment" with Jericho and Trish should have received a huge push.

[Nevermore]

[QUOTE=Self;473072]Oh, speaking of [B]Raven[/B], he could have been something, though I understand why he wasn't. [/QUOTE] I can't. They wouldn't have even had to push him. They could have given him a low-level title (other than the crock of sh*t that was the hardcore strap) and let him build stars. He's one of the most genuine, selfless guys going, after all. Back when I was toying with a WWE diary, I'd have brought in Raven and made him ECW champ pretty much permanently. He'd feud with the new young prospect and eventually lose the belt only for said prospect to be drafted/signed/whatever to Raw or Smackdown, thus, having to hand back the title. Raven would then regain the belt in underhanded fashion. Repeat as much as needed... he would not only give their character(s) credibility but teach them how to work a crowd (there is no one better, in my view) at the same time. They could have done it with the European belt, the US belt or any other. Really dumb not to have used him as a vet ring general. Quote The Raven Nevermore

[djthefunkchris]

On a more modern level, I'm going to give my thoughts on some under-achiever's, and my reasoning. Kurt Angle: He was hot, but hurt. He could have stayed on ECW, and healed up like they wanted, and afterward, been brought up to one of the other brands bigger then ever. I really think/feel that he could have been a much bigger/more popular star then he is now (not that he is lacking), if he would have just played ball, and did the right thing for, well, For him. Now on TNA, even with a lighter schedule, seems to be determined to self destruct. I really think he's letting the ball drop lower and lower, the more chance's he takes, the risk of never being able to reach the pinnacle of what I believe he could have achieved. Jeff Hardy: Everytime he gets good momentum going, has the world in the palm of his hands, he screws up somehow. I sincerely hope that was his last time, but I can't help thinking he's going to screw up and be released within' a couple of years, and never reach the height of his carreer that he could. Jim Duggan: Great character, great entertainer. Never reached the heights he could have in my opinion. His personality is great, charismatic, and his mic skills are up there for sure. He/They never really brought him into anything major, and that's a shame, because I do think he could have been utilized alot better. Even to this day, I think he could have at least a midcard position, and be a transitional title holder in between the newer/younger guys. Shelton Benjamin: I don't know why, but he can't get anyone interested in him. Right now is the best I've seen him as far as interest is concerned, and even now I can't seem to see him as a legitimate player... He always comes off like an "actor" playin' the part, and looks very "Fake". I wish they would find something that would suit him alot better. Victoria: What in the world are they doing with her? She is golden, at any point can get any reaction from the crowd she wants... Cheers or Boo's. Not bad on the mic either, the few times they let her speak. Pluss, one of the hottest, if not THEE Hottest Diva on the roster. Jamie Noble: Again, he's gold on the mic, great in skits, promo's, angle's, whatever the situation calls for. Comedy gold, and could be utilized a bit more then to give a monster an easy win. Paul Burchill: Hate him now, loved the pirate. Can't stand the sister/brother thing, and it still looks too close to "something more" which sicken's me. I don't recall the last time I was able to "listen" to either one of them when they are together. I ussually leave the room, or channel skip. Split them up (as they are doing), and don't bring that crap into my living room ever, ever.... EVER.... NEEEEVVVVVEEEEERRRR!!!!! AGAIN! Layla: I don't know why they don't do something more with her. I don't mean put a belt on her, but I definately think she could be used in storylines, in more talkative roles. She has the potential to get alot better in the ring as well. Obviously she can remember what to do, and how to do it. Give her someone good to go up against, instead of making her be the one to make "non-talent" look good. If she can already make them look good, then there is definately a good chance someone great could make her at worse, decent in the ring..... Quit messing/concentrating with Kelly Kelly. She's an ok gymnast, but Layla could really bring some psychology to the ring, and really pull off something Kelly Kelly won't ever be able to do, and that is make a believeable match. Kelly is hot right now, but Layla is someone that could be made to go to a higher level.

[lordprimeau25]

I have to disagree with alot of what you have said Chris and normally I am on the same page as you. Angle- I agree. Jeff Hardy- While Hardy has had several chances to be on top of the world and then screwed them up,he has gotten there simply from that x-factor that he supposedly has. The crowd embraces him and is likely because of the jaw dropping spots he pulls off every month or so to keep that "hardy boy ladder match persona" about him. In my opinion, given his below average mic skills and spot-monkey type ring work, I would consider Jeff Hardy to be an over-achiever. Duggan- Discussing Duggan underachieving seems like discussing the what-ifs around communist Russia. I mean Duggan had his day and he had some pretty decent upper-midcard programs. I think he was never really taken seriously enough to take that extra stride into the main event. He was a guy who was a hard worker and a likeable person thus they put him over in the first rumble to solidify his status as a lifer and future hall of famer and he was the resident patriot to beat all of the midcard heels and lay down for the main event heels who "threaten the American lifestyle" before Hogan would gobble them up. Duggan wa sin some good matches in his hay-day and may still have some charisma and popularity with the fans but his run is nearly over. Benjamin- I agree. He always comes off too much as going through the motions, and his mic work is atrocious as it is so obviously pre-scripted. But I never disagree when JR calls him the most pure athlete in WWE, shame his lacking charisma will never let him fully showcase that. Victoria- I definitely disagree about her being the hottest but thats for another time. I do agree that she is the most talented womens wrestler the E has. Burchill- That pirate was goofy and a gimmick going no higher than an opening act! Though initially I thought the "incest" thing was in poor taste and going nowhere I think WWE has handled it pretty well. Due to their PG rating now unless you really thing about it, Katie Lea and Burchill accompany one another to the ring and nothing more. Burchill has a much more believable character now and his ring work has always been great. I do feel he is lacking a connection with the crowd to carry him much further. I think Paul is capable of great things but we will see him stagnate where he is right now for quite a while. Layla- No comment.

[Nevermore]

[QUOTE=lordprimeau25;473363]I think Paul is capable of great things but we will see him stagnate where he is right now for quite a while.[/QUOTE] No doubt! If you've seen his FWA stuff, you'll know that there are few people with as much raw talent. Last I saw of him, he wasn't yet a finished article in terms of "selling" a match but, should he become as well-rounded as his young age could allow, my word, he'll be one hell of a prospect! Quote The Raven Nevermore

[cappyboy]

[QUOTE=Self;473291]I'm watching Smackdown right now, and I have to say... I'm wrong about Kennedy. He's there. He's over. Fans love interacting with his shtick. That kick he does is awesome. His Downward Spiral is getting over. At any given time, he could be thrown into a Main Event programme, and in a month, he could be champion. [/QUOTE] You know, dude, maybe I'm too biased against Kennedy. But I would remind you that one show does not a trend make. I didn't catch where Smackdown was playing from last night so it could be he just has an unusually strong base there. Doubter though I am of Kennedy, I don't question that he's over. It's been obvious for a long time he's one of those guys that don't play to me. I just have to question whether he's AS over as you'd pull away from last night. Give me several more weeks of that same reaction, maybe I start to accept he's World Title over regardless of my taste for his shtick. I'll grant it's a good step for him. But let's see if the crowd goes as bonkers should he beat Shelton for the US title and how they respond to him during any such reign. I'll either have to see some more individualization from him or a longer string of last nights before I join you in this perspective though.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=lordprimeau25;473363]I have to disagree with alot of what you have said Chris and normally I am on the same page as you. Angle- I agree. Jeff Hardy- While Hardy has had several chances to be on top of the world and then screwed them up,he has gotten there simply from that x-factor that he supposedly has. The crowd embraces him and is likely because of the jaw dropping spots he pulls off every month or so to keep that "hardy boy ladder match persona" about him. In my opinion, given his below average mic skills and spot-monkey type ring work, I would consider Jeff Hardy to be an over-achiever. Duggan- Discussing Duggan underachieving seems like discussing the what-ifs around communist Russia. I mean Duggan had his day and he had some pretty decent upper-midcard programs. I think he was never really taken seriously enough to take that extra stride into the main event. He was a guy who was a hard worker and a likeable person thus they put him over in the first rumble to solidify his status as a lifer and future hall of famer and he was the resident patriot to beat all of the midcard heels and lay down for the main event heels who "threaten the American lifestyle" before Hogan would gobble them up. Duggan wa sin some good matches in his hay-day and may still have some charisma and popularity with the fans but his run is nearly over. Benjamin- I agree. He always comes off too much as going through the motions, and his mic work is atrocious as it is so obviously pre-scripted. But I never disagree when JR calls him the most pure athlete in WWE, shame his lacking charisma will never let him fully showcase that. Victoria- I definitely disagree about her being the hottest but thats for another time. I do agree that she is the most talented womens wrestler the E has. Burchill- That pirate was goofy and a gimmick going no higher than an opening act! Though initially I thought the "incest" thing was in poor taste and going nowhere I think WWE has handled it pretty well. Due to their PG rating now unless you really thing about it, Katie Lea and Burchill accompany one another to the ring and nothing more. Burchill has a much more believable character now and his ring work has always been great. I do feel he is lacking a connection with the crowd to carry him much further. I think Paul is capable of great things but we will see him stagnate where he is right now for quite a while. Layla- No comment.[/QUOTE] Hardy screwing himself was my main point there. I don't mean he doesn't try... I just mean he screws it up. Burchill. Maybe it wasn't the gimmick as much as his connection with the crowd when he had it. I only got to see a handfull of segments with him as the Pirate, but I connected. Maybe that's what I'm looking at. Yeah, I think my problem is I don't like his gimmick right now. What's funny is I think I connect with his sister more then him (as they stand now, not before). That's weird, but I think it's true, for me at least. Victoria... our tastes are just different. We aggree... With Layla, I'm going by the whole search contest with her. I remember all the things they went through, including the obstacle coarse. Also, the dancing (she is able to remember what to do). During the whole contest, she had loads of charisma, and was my favorite from the very first episode with her in it. I don't know what they can do with her, but I think they should do something that allows that charisma to shine through.

[tristram]

[QUOTE=panix04;473298] Christian - doesn't really need explaining, he was as good as Edge and following his big "mania moment" with Jericho and Trish should have received a huge push.[/QUOTE] Quoted for the truth. That was one of the top Wrestlemania moments in my book and the culmination of a well worked feud, and where to from there? Jobber to the stars. Ordinary.

[Prophet]

I'm gonna go with Mantaur! How could you not get behind someone who wore a giant plush bullhead down to the ring, and only used rushing shoulder tackles as his offense? Okay, okay ... in all seriousness, I have to agree with Raven. I think someone who was that talented, and had so much to his arsenal in the ring (such as psychology, in ring ability, and brilliance with the microphone) should have definitely more than someone who spent a year exiled on Sunday Night Heat. I also think Taz was underutilized, but I can understand that, in the sense that he was a stocky guy who wrestled like a machine, and did a massive amount of suplexes, and the WWE was building Angle up in that way for a time. But angry Taz promos are great. I also think Steven Richards is grossly underused. The guy is talented, and has made every gimmick he's had, from the daisy duke wearing Raven lackey to the RTC head work, in my opinion, anyway. And one they are definitely dropping the ball on now, is Elijah Burke. Why he isn't on television every week, with the mic in his hand, is beyond me. In my opinion, Burke is genius.