The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Linsolv]

When's someone getting voted off again? I thought it was every week, but there's been no commentary on anyone leaving.

 

...

 

Still hope it's Sheffield or Young.

[The Final Countdown]

I think they said the first elimination would be six weeks after the initial poll, so...4 or 5 weeks, maybe? And I'm pretty sure that from that point, there will be an elimination every week.

[crownsy]

Speaking of complete swerve's, who are three guys who are not yet above the uppermidcardsh level that you hope get pushed/ continue their push this "year" in the WWE?

 

(I count the WWE year from WM to WM, it seems to be where these decisions are made by creative.)

 

MY top 3:

 

1. Dolph Ziggler: Not a huge fan of his name, but a huge fan of the worker. and Dolph can work. His few promo's haven't been bad, and i like his gimmick.

 

Yes, the gimmick is in effectively the standard ****y young kid gimmick, but dolph's look fits it well and his music really suits him.

 

I'm a big fan of his in ring work though. Dolph's one of those guys who won't necessarily wow you, but he can put together a very good match, and when you give him a good worker to go against, he often delivers + bouts.

 

It just seems to me that the WWE respects that whoever they toss him in with, they are going to get a solid match, but they hesitate to push him to that next level. I really thought he was going to come out of that fued with Rey as champ...but between the rumors rey wouldn't put him over and the suspension, i feel like Dolph got screwed through no fault of his own.

 

2. Jack Swagger (I know he just won MITB and the inevitable title, but to me he's still a upper midcarder pending how the next few months play out)

 

The only thing that sucks about jack swagger, to me, is that he is defiantly not good on the mic.

 

His in ring skills are great, and he's certainly a high energy guy. I often wonder if he is miscast as a heel, but he just doesn't quite have the look of a face...

 

Other than that though, i think he's a very good talent. while the jericholic in me hated that he took Y2J's title for purley selfish reasons, i think he's going to surprise people with how he carries himself as champion.

 

3. Tyson Kidd (and, vicariously, the harts.)

 

Removing the heart dynasty from the equation for a moment, i really hope this kid has a long run in the WWE. He's a great technical worker, and judging from the admittedly few promo's the harts have gotten, he's decent talking (better than baby heuy...errr david anyway.)

 

I'm a sucker for good technical middleweights, but i really like Tyson. he has good charisma, good high flying mixed with mat skills, and in general carries himself well.

 

Who's everyone else got an eye on?

[crownsy]

When's someone getting voted off again? I thought it was every week, but there's been no commentary on anyone leaving.

 

...

 

Still hope it's Sheffield or Young.

 

It won't be young. They can get FAR to much mileage out of the "CM punk is mentoring an out of control clubber" storyline.

 

They've been doing a great job selling the subtle turn from "I don't even know why i'm here.." attitude of punk to the current "you know...If i could get this kid to join my SES...I could use him." attitude they've begun to sell punk having.

 

The only thing for certain besides Danielson winning this thing is that Darren young will be hairless by the end of it.

[Linsolv]

3 - Michael Tarver. Dropping the keg was the best thing that could ever happen to him. People noticed. People reacted. He came off as a heel. Decent live promo too... although the inset promo was one of the worst things I've ever seen.

 

Seemed like he was getting that "X-Pac heat" I hear about. Like people wanted him to shut up. Though, at the risk of repeating myself, he's one of the guys I wanted to be successful from his intro.

 

.. And while I've got the floor, what's with the Bryan/Young match? That was easily a double-digit number of flash pins.

[Self]

Seemed like he was getting that "X-Pac heat" I hear about. Like people wanted him to shut up. Though, at the risk of repeating myself, he's one of the guys I wanted to be successful from his intro.

 

I'm always suspicious when I hear claims of "X-Pac heat". I tend to find it mostly comes from smarks (term used with love) trying to claim stuff they don't personally like is 'bad for business'. As though them disliking something is worse than a casual fan disliking something. Wanting a heel to shut up is part and parcel of what a heel is supposed to do, so rock on, Tarver. They may have been mocking his screw-up, but any reaction is better than no reaction.

 

.. And while I've got the floor, what's with the Bryan/Young match? That was easily a double-digit number of flash pins.

 

I liked it. It was Bryan using simple manuevers to out-wrestle his less experienced opponent.

[Moe Hunter]

Remember, Shawn Michaels is Mr Wrestlemania. Now, you look at his record at the event and tell me if that's fitting

JR: "No one has ever out-performed Shawn Michaels in a big match situation". It's not about his record, it's about the match quality. He has more memorable and excellent performances at Mania than anyone.

 

Keg Carrying Challenge?

Didn't they do this on Tough Enough back in the day?

[The Shape]

1. Dolph Ziggler: Not a huge fan of his name, but a huge fan of the worker. and Dolph can work. His few promo's haven't been bad, and i like his gimmick.

 

Yes, the gimmick is in effectively the standard ****y young kid gimmick, but dolph's look fits it well and his music really suits him.

 

I'm a big fan of his in ring work though. Dolph's one of those guys who won't necessarily wow you, but he can put together a very good match, and when you give him a good worker to go against, he often delivers + bouts.

 

It just seems to me that the WWE respects that whoever they toss him in with, they are going to get a solid match, but they hesitate to push him to that next level. I really thought he was going to come out of that fued with Rey as champ...but between the rumors rey wouldn't put him over and the suspension, i feel like Dolph got screwed through no fault of his own.

 

Honestly...he should be higher up already. And it is Rey's fault. Not seen any rumours about him not being put over, but the suspension really hurt him. It was the third straight PPV he and Rey were facing off. I think it HAD to be him going over. The reactions he was getting around that time were insane, Summerslam in particular, let's go ziggler, and not a minority. Then Morrison wins the belt, there's that downright painful promo at Breaking Point, and it all falls apart. I thought they were gonna do something with him and Vickie based on what I think was a seg on wwe.com, but instead he did nothing till that random match with Kane and thus, the sleeper was born. Which I don't really mind, the zig zag is cool but by now who doesn't have an impact finisher like that, the sleeper allows him to be a threat to much bigger guys as well.

 

As for my three, it'd include Ziggler, and then Christian, who I really, really hope moves up a level. He doesn't have to be the top guy, doesn't need the title (though it would be amazing), but he can offer so much more than what seems to be the Matt Hardy role he's played on Raw for a couple of weeks. Him vs. virtually everyone in the main event scene would make for fresh, appealling feuds. My third guy would be Miz, who surely has to win MITB at some point and cash it in on Cena...or Taker, but only the latter at Wrestlemania.

[Gabbo]

I do actually recall hearing something about Mysterio not wanting to lose to Ziggler because he wanted a longer title reign, bitching about never having a meaningful run with a major title in the WWE.

 

May have just been speculation though.

 

 

NXT is probably my favourite wrestling show on now, so here's some thoughts: -

 

I actually think the unintentional star of the show has been Michael Cole. I've always thought he's a heel turn just waiting to happen, but this snide, petulant colour commentator persona just fits him like a glove. He may not have the insider knowledge of wrestling that Ventura, JBL, Tazz, Lawler etc had, but I definitely see shades of Heenan in him.

 

I honestly can't see what the WWE see in Heath Slater. That's my biggest issue with the show so far. He's just awful. So plain, there's nothing to him. Aswell as lacking a character, he hardly excels in the ring or on the stick. I recall hearing a while back from someone recently involved with FCW that Slater has been there for years and been on the verge of call-ups numerous times, they just have no idea what to do with him. I do get the impression this is his one serious attempt at getting over or he's done. Shave his hair, grow a beard, give him glasses and he's a geography teacher. How am I supposed to believe he's this rockstar god? Eugh. He also looked like a retard when Striker announced he won the keg challenge.

 

Otunga seems like a nob. Rattling on about charisma and how he has so much of it, the only man who can get away with that is Captain Charisma himself. But blergh, Otunga is another Lesnar/Lashley/Batista etc. No love of the business or it's history, just a desire to be famous, rich and on television. As much as Batista sucks on the mic and is average in the ring, he still oozes charisma. Otunga is a poor man's Batista. That goes some way to showing just how bad he is.

 

I actually liked the keg challenge, kinda reminded me of the challenges in the early series of TUF. Added another dimension to the character's personalites that are often lost in sub-standard story telling via booking and match psychology.

 

Tarver impressed me right from the first episode, his image and character seemed cool and interesting. People can say an MMA gimmick/look won't get over in pro wrestling but it worked for Shamrock and Goldberg. So you can't even use the notion that Shamrock was legit tough as a basis for it's success. His promo in this episode was decent too, I think he has something, they just need to work out what. He also looks a bit like a turtle, which is nice.

 

Barrett has star power. No question. Despite bland ring gear, he really stands out. I like him alot, the way he talks, the way he holds himself and the way he wrestles. He's the easy future main-eventer of this group.

 

Gabriel, am I the only one who thinks he's meh? He's been getting rave reviews and does a stunning 450. So what? When did a flippy finishing move ever help Evan Bourne do anything? Unless they tag, I feel they are too similar to both hold a place on the roster and Bourne is infinitely better at bumping and selling... which quite frankly is what both men's job would entail. Gabriel might get an initial run with Matt Hardy, or be used to sell shows in SA, but he's really nothing special. At all.

 

Skip? Stupid heel turn, loss of character. Well done WWE on another awful disposition change. With Tarver ranting this week, Barrett ruling the roost and Otunga believing he's it, does NXT need another intense heel? The sad thing is, I get the impression, he was asked to be overly camp, goofy and annoying in the early episodes just to make the heel turn more impactful. That's a real shame, since I don't believe the WWE tried to make Skip entertaining, which he was. It just shows the WWE's relinquishing grip on what the public want.

 

 

I'd like the announce teams to be:

Raw and NXT: Josh Matthews and Michael Cole (colour)

SD: Matt Striker (colour) and Todd Grisham

PPV: Todd Grisham (pbp), Matt Striker (analyst) and Michael Cole (colour).

 

Fail to see what Lawler has to offer the WWE anymore, in any capacity.

[dvdWarrior]

Just watched NXT and Bryan getting another loss is just frustrating as all hell. Dude needs to win sometimes otherwise your casual WWE fans will never buy into him. I am starting to suspect NXT is not in fact some beautiful plan designed to present Bryan to WWE audiences but rather an evil underhanded attempt to destroy the credibility of all indy wrestling.

 

This is what I'm starting to believe too. I've been told to be patient, but I can't see how booking someone to lose all the time can make them a star. If that were the case, Shannon Moore would be The Rock by now.

 

[Remianen]

I actually think the unintentional star of the show has been Michael Cole. I've always thought he's a heel turn just waiting to happen, but this snide, petulant colour commentator persona just fits him like a glove. He may not have the insider knowledge of wrestling that Ventura, JBL, Tazz, Lawler etc had, but I definitely see shades of Heenan in him.

 

I don't know what to say. Let me try this: Heenan with Alzheimer's and dementia and a Swagger-esque speech impediment would still be infinitely more entertaining than Michael Cole on his BEST day. I don't see "shades of Heenan" in that pencil necked little prick simply because Heenan could entertain with NO WRESTLING at all. You could turn the picture off the TV and just LISTEN and he'd still be on. Michael Cole's mere voice makes me mute the TV and his smarmy little act isn't cute, it isn't fun, it isn't 'love to hate', it's 'stop polluting my speakers with your tired drivel'.

 

I've seen people in this thread talk about "believability" and how big guys LOOK like they can fight so it's automatically assumed they'd tear up smaller guys. If that's the case, how in the hell can folks sit around and listen to Michael Cole call someone a 'geek' or a 'nerd'? Especially someone who makes their living in the ring. If it was JBL or Taz or even Striker doing that (you know, people who were actual workers?), it'd be fine. But you get the third least imposing talking head in the company (Todd and Josh are 1 & 2) to try to question the heart of someone who has performed at a high level all over the world (as their intro video of Bryan states) and it's not even laughable. Let's not even get into how often he botches calls.

 

But that's probably just me. I'm sure someone's going to try to point out how Cole is doing his job making me hate him. But I totally disagree. It's not 'heel heat', it's 'mute the TV heat' (just like The Miz has 'change the channel heat' with me).

[Gabbo]

I've seen people in this thread talk about "believability" and how big guys LOOK like they can fight so it's automatically assumed they'd tear up smaller guys. If that's the case, how in the hell can folks sit around and listen to Michael Cole call someone a 'geek' or a 'nerd'? Especially someone who makes their living in the ring. If it was JBL or Taz or even Striker doing that (you know, people who were actual workers?), it'd be fine. But you get the third least imposing talking head in the company (Todd and Josh are 1 & 2) to try to question the heart of someone who has performed at a high level all over the world (as their intro video of Bryan states) and it's not even laughable. Let's not even get into how often he botches calls.

 

Think you've missed the point, however much you want to think otherwise. He doesn't do that on Raw, because he's not the heel colour on Raw... Follow?

 

You may have went a bit over the top with the Heenan stuff, but I did say 'shades', Heenan was untouchable in his day, but he was awful towards the end too. It's all irrelevant though, never said Cole was anywhere near as good as Heenan, but there's certainly some worth to him as a heel colour, in my opinion. More so than a pbp anyway.

 

However, all in all, I do think he has gets a bad press. He's not great by any means, but it's kinda fun and cool to hate on him nowadays. He's a bit smarmy and smug, I appreciate - but all adds up to why I think he needs a slight role adjustment in the company. Maybe if they had faith in Grisham or Matthews going live as pbp they would.

[Self]

But that's probably just me. I'm sure someone's going to try to point out how Cole is doing his job making me hate him. But I totally disagree. It's not 'heel heat', it's 'mute the TV heat' (just like The Miz has 'change the channel heat' with me).

 

Yeah. Normally I'd just say the above.

 

However, Heel-Cole isn't perfect. He lacks one big thing for me. Comeuppance. Matthews argues with him, sure, but all-in-all it seems like Cole is going to get away with everything he's saying about Daniel Bryan. If retribution was more inevitable, the entire thing would be easier to stomach. If the fans knew, for example, that for every time Cole calls him a nerd, Bryan's going to keep him in the Cattle Mutilation for another second, it might be enjoyable to hear Cole dig himself deeper and deeper into trouble week by week. I'm expecting it to end with Cole being made to eat his words... but I'm not certain of it, and there's the problem for me.

 

Although I wouldn't end it with Bryan actually hurting Cole. I'd end it with Cole cowering in a corner, terrified and helpless, regretting all of the things he's said, as Daniel Bryan, winner of NXT, stands over him triumphant... and then he lets him go, because Daniel Bryan isn't a thug or a jackal, he's a sportsman, and he'd never attack a defenseless man, especially one so far beneath him.

[fatallylost]

This is what I'm starting to believe too. I've been told to be patient, but I can't see how booking someone to lose all the time can make them a star. If that were the case, Shannon Moore would be The Rock by now.

 

 

Wait.. he's not?

 

Thanks for ruining my life.

[Tha Black Phenom]

(just like The Miz has 'change the channel heat' with me).

 

Here, here!

 

Although I wouldn't end it with Bryan actually hurting Cole. I'd end it with Cole cowering in a corner, terrified and helpless, regretting all of the things he's said, as Daniel Bryan, winner of NXT, stands over him triumphant... and then he lets him go, because Daniel Bryan isn't a thug or a jackal, he's a sportsman, and he'd never attack a defenseless man, especially one so far beneath him.

 

And then Cole resumes his weekly Bryan bashing in JBL-type fashion. The system works.

[lazorbeak]

I've seen people in this thread talk about "believability" and how big guys LOOK like they can fight so it's automatically assumed they'd tear up smaller guys. If that's the case, how in the hell can folks sit around and listen to Michael Cole call someone a 'geek' or a 'nerd'?

 

 

Because 1. Cole isn't a wrestler and 2. Cole is playing a heel. Are you really complaining about a heel being a hypocrite? What's next? The Million Dollar Man hurts the economy? Hollywood Hogan is a jerk! And that Ric Flair fella always talked about being the best but darn it HE CHEATED! It's just one of the ways heels get people to boo them since forever.

 

I'm not a fan of monday morning quarterbacking storylines in progress: see where it goes. If Cole never gets any comeuppance from it and it hurts the guy for a guy acting heelish to doubt him, then yeah, maybe it was a dumb storyline. But I just don't get complaining about heels doing heelish things.

 

 

But that's probably just me. I'm sure someone's going to try to point out how Cole is doing his job making me hate him. But I totally disagree. It's not 'heel heat', it's 'mute the TV heat' (just like The Miz has 'change the channel heat' with me).

 

Miz's in-ring work has improved but he's been off the charts on the mic.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_ggC34eV2w

 

I'll admit I always thought he was pretty terrible when he was working with Morrison, but he's really come into his own.

[Marshall]

The Million Dollar Man hurts the economy?

 

Got to say this made me laugh. Does make me wonder though - how did Ted DiBiase get so f'n rich?

 

And on the Heenan subject, he was absolute gold - you can't debate his legacy. It's the same situation as Jesse Ventura - I went through the Macho Man dvd set recently and it really makes you realise how poor the commentary is these days.

[brashleyholland]

And on the Heenan subject, he was absolute gold - you can't debate his legacy.

 

Watched the gimmick battle royal from WM17 recently. Even for that, which was little more than a big joke to cool the crowd, Heenan was amazing. His wit is so quick and he must have hours worth of one-liners saved up. Had me in stitches.

 

There was a bit when the Repo Man came out and he said something like...

 

Heenan: This guy repo'd his own car, he's nuts!

 

Mean Gene: About 5 years ago he got my mother in law...

 

Heenan: About 6 years ago everyone got your mother in law.

 

...perfect timing.

[ampulator]

Miz's in-ring work has improved but he's been off the charts on the mic.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_ggC34eV2w

 

I'll admit I always thought he was pretty terrible when he was working with Morrison, but he's really come into his own.

I used to not care much for the Miz. It's not that I hated him, but I just didn't care. But he's great on the Mic (he's taken Improv classes, he's said. I'm absoutely that helps him), and he's improved in the ring enough. He's no Brawler, Technician, or even a high flyer, but he's got his basics down pat. That's good enough for me considering WWE's standards.

[Tag01]

Watched the gimmick battle royal from WM17 recently. Even for that, which was little more than a big joke to cool the crowd, Heenan was amazing. His wit is so quick and he must have hours worth of one-liners saved up. Had me in stitches.

 

There was a bit when the Repo Man came out and he said something like...

 

Heenan: This guy repo'd his own car, he's nuts!

 

Mean Gene: About 5 years ago he got my mother in law...

 

Heenan: About 6 years ago everyone got your mother in law.

 

...perfect timing.

 

That's gold. Heenan was one of my favorite parts of wrestling when I was younger, and one of the main reasons I had a soft spot for WCW.

[BurningHamster]

But he's acceptable on the Mic

 

Fixed that for you.

 

Seriously. I do think The Miz has improved immensely but he is nowhere NEAR great on the mic. Saying "I'm Awesome" just doesn't cut it with me, he's pretty predictable and while his delivery is fine, maybe even above average, and he doesn't screw up there is no way you'll ever hear me say "shut up dudes, The Miz is talking".

 

At the moment the only people in the WWE who I have any real interest in listening to are CM Punk and Chris Jericho.

[ampulator]

Fixed that for you.

 

Seriously. I do think The Miz has improved immensely but he is nowhere NEAR great on the mic. Saying "I'm Awesome" just doesn't cut it with me, he's pretty predictable and while his delivery is fine, maybe even above average, and he doesn't screw up there is no way you'll ever hear me say "shut up dudes, The Miz is talking".

 

At the moment the only people in the WWE who I have any real interest in listening to are CM Punk and Chris Jericho.

I think the problem isn't him, it's the WWF scripting every promo word by word. This is a wrestling event, not a movie or a theater act, as much as they want to believe it is. I can understand they need to control time, but man, they need to loosen up a bit. The Rock and Stone Cold managed to get big with somewhat less scripting.

[The Ego]

From various reports, i think its safe to say that Vince is trying to control every aspect of the show more and more.

 

He's in the heads of the announcers, he's scripting promos etc

[djthefunkchris]

Fixed that for you.

 

Seriously. I do think The Miz has improved immensely but he is nowhere NEAR great on the mic. Saying "I'm Awesome" just doesn't cut it with me, he's pretty predictable and while his delivery is fine, maybe even above average, and he doesn't screw up there is no way you'll ever hear me say "shut up dudes, The Miz is talking".

 

At the moment the only people in the WWE who I have any real interest in listening to are CM Punk and Chris Jericho.

 

The predictability kind of goes the way of Punk and Jericho as well, in my opinion. In fact, other then the difference in personality, they bassically all say the same thing. I'm better then you... I'm better then the crowd.... I'm better then "insert famous sports team that is the local favorite here"...

 

Afterwards, they are able to get the crowd to boo them for the rest of their mic time. Miz does the same thing, really. Sometimes he doesn't have to, which is in itself impressive to an extent.

 

Is he as good as Punk or Jericho? No. IS he better then the average wrestler we can see on any tv channel... BY FAR.

 

He doesn't really have much else going for him, other then in ring psychology. He doesn't have fantastic moves, he's not technical, great brawler, etc... He's just "The Miz".

 

You can give him the credit for the one thing he does excell in, can't you?

[fatallylost]

Watched the gimmick battle royal from WM17 recently. Even for that, which was little more than a big joke to cool the crowd, Heenan was amazing. His wit is so quick and he must have hours worth of one-liners saved up. Had me in stitches.

 

There was a bit when the Repo Man came out and he said something like...

 

Heenan: This guy repo'd his own car, he's nuts!

 

Mean Gene: About 5 years ago he got my mother in law...

 

Heenan: About 6 years ago everyone got your mother in law.

 

...perfect timing.

 

Stuff like that is why I wish he could still be the color guy somewhere. I wasn't the biggest WCW fan, but, he always made it much better in his time there.

 

Not to mention Heenan and Gorilla.