The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[MrOnu]

You know, I let my mind wonder a bit after the Rock's promo and I thought : "man, could you just imagine the hatred level if Cena turns heel on the Rock at Wrestlemania ?". I'm not saying it's going to happen, not even sure it should happen anyways, still, that would be a tremendous amount of heel heat.

[1234]

And when "do you smell what The Rock is cookin'?" came over the PA, I jumped out of bed and my girlfriend looked at me and said, "Really Logan?" So I flipped out and told her she was witnessing history and that she HAD to like it.

 

Ha, you tell her Logan.

 

And I may or may not have started chanting "Rocky! Rocky! Rocky!..."

[Purple Cowboy]

Think there will be any Nexus vs. Corre at Elimination Chamber? They teased it at the beginning of RR and have never gone back since I believe.

[jbergey_2005]

I would argue those were the only TRUE SUPERSTARS out of that list. Who outside of wrestling fans knew of Lesnar, Angle, Guerrero, and Benoit while they were wrestling in the WWE?

 

The WWE could gain mainstream exposure for their current stars by having them on television shows and such. They did it in the 90s with MTV, the Drew Carey show, and many other television shows. HHH was nothing more than an IC title guy until after the Drew Carey show and MTV spots.

 

It helps get the people themselves over when they get exposure like that. It's something I could see helping again eventually.

 

EDIT: NOT saying HHH only got over because of those but I certainly feel they helped.

 

I guess id agree with this. It was probably back then you would have Rock or Austin headlining a show and it would get tremendous buy rates whoever they were facing. I was just thinking in a few years if we get to the point of The Miz headlining vs CM Punk that the casual fans are going to have very little interest in buying that PPV. Of course this trend has been happening now despite still having Undertaker, HHH and Cena doing a lot of the headlining.

[Fantabulous]

I was just thinking in a few years if we get to the point of The Miz headlining vs CM Punk that the casual fans are going to have very little interest in buying that PPV. Of course this trend has been happening now despite still having Undertaker, HHH and Cena doing a lot of the headlining.

 

I'd say part of the reason of the decline is because of those three, and Orton and Edge as well, doing a lot of the headlining for the past few years. How often can you run headline feuds with the same group of wrestlers before people have had their fill? I'd say this is an ideal time for Triple H to end his career as full-time performer because they won't have a choice but to make a few serious headline players.

[KJFTW]

The Rock to me has always been the best at promos, and last week was a breath of fresh air that was really needed. Maybe things get better from here.

[lazorbeak]

I guess id agree with this. It was probably back then you would have Rock or Austin headlining a show and it would get tremendous buy rates whoever they were facing. I was just thinking in a few years if we get to the point of The Miz headlining vs CM Punk that the casual fans are going to have very little interest in buying that PPV. Of course this trend has been happening now despite still having Undertaker, HHH and Cena doing a lot of the headlining.

 

I don't agree with this at all. With the right story and the right talent, you can make a CM Punk or The Miz into a "megastar" type guy. I mean WWF in 1996-97 had lost nearly every proven main event draw they had ever had, and were left with a couple of excellent workers the casual fans never showed any interest in. But in 1998, despite losing both of those workers to injury and screwjobs, WWF had a banner year and suddenly caught mainstream attention. But if you had told those casual fans in 1996 that they would pay to see Steve Austin or Rocky Maivia wrestle anybody, they would've looked at you like you were crazy. Those guys caught fire because there was a big power vacuum and they stepped in and filled it with their ability to connect with the crowd along with a compelling story. There's no reason to think that the casual fan will never be interested again or that no one will ever come along that connects with fans to the same extent.

 

Just look at WCW: their main event was full of proven draws. But by 1998, there was enough fatigue with all of them that Goldberg became the hottest act they had. Granted they completely botched it, but they took a guy that nobody had ever heard of and made him a top draw in less than a year, and this was in an absolutely loaded roster.

 

One of the biggest problems with WWE today is they can't/won't build babyfaces like that anymore. You take a guy like Ezekiel Jackson and put him on TV every week, just destroying people, and he'd get over. Would he be the next Goldberg or the next Glacier? I guess you wouldn't know until you actually tried to get him over.

[juggaloninjalee]

I don't agree with this at all. With the right story and the right talent, you can make a CM Punk or The Miz into a "megastar" type guy. I mean WWF in 1996-97 had lost nearly every proven main event draw they had ever had, and were left with a couple of excellent workers the casual fans never showed any interest in. But in 1998, despite losing both of those workers to injury and screwjobs, WWF had a banner year and suddenly caught mainstream attention. But if you had told those casual fans in 1996 that they would pay to see Steve Austin or Rocky Maivia wrestle anybody, they would've looked at you like you were crazy. Those guys caught fire because there was a big power vacuum and they stepped in and filled it with their ability to connect with the crowd along with a compelling story. There's no reason to think that the casual fan will never be interested again or that no one will ever come along that connects with fans to the same extent.

 

Just look at WCW: their main event was full of proven draws. But by 1998, there was enough fatigue with all of them that Goldberg became the hottest act they had. Granted they completely botched it, but they took a guy that nobody had ever heard of and made him a top draw in less than a year, and this was in an absolutely loaded roster.

 

One of the biggest problems with WWE today is they can't/won't build babyfaces like that anymore. You take a guy like Ezekiel Jackson and put him on TV every week, just destroying people, and he'd get over. Would he be the next Goldberg or the next Glacier? I guess you wouldn't know until you actually tried to get him over.

 

The monster push almost always works. Take a guy like Otunga and once he gets more experience and is a little better in the ring. Turn him face and let him destroy everyone in Nexus 1 by 1. First month he goes against the lowest guy. Then the following the next guy up. Then the 3rd month both of them in a gauntlet match. Followed by the big guy (whoever it is at the time) and then the leader.

 

I don't know if Otunga could be a mega draw but I think people have already shown some interest in him character wise. With improvement that guy could make some $$$ I think.

[ampulator]

The monster push almost always works. Take a guy like Otunga and once he gets more experience and is a little better in the ring. Turn him face and let him destroy everyone in Nexus 1 by 1. First month he goes against the lowest guy. Then the following the next guy up. Then the 3rd month both of them in a gauntlet match. Followed by the big guy (whoever it is at the time) and then the leader.

 

I don't know if Otunga could be a mega draw but I think people have already shown some interest in him character wise. With improvement that guy could make some $$$ I think.

Actually, it doesn't ALWAYS work. Especially if the fans don't accept it. Look what happened to Sheamus... when his push died down, the fans stopped caring. The only way to sustain a monster push is constantly pushing... and that gets resentment.

[Hive]

The monster push almost always works. Take a guy like Otunga and once he gets more experience and is a little better in the ring. Turn him face and let him destroy everyone in Nexus 1 by 1. First month he goes against the lowest guy. Then the following the next guy up. Then the 3rd month both of them in a gauntlet match. Followed by the big guy (whoever it is at the time) and then the leader.

 

I don't know if Otunga could be a mega draw but I think people have already shown some interest in him character wise. With improvement that guy could make some $$$ I think.

 

I find it more likely that they'll just repeat the Batista formula with Batista 2.0 aka Mason Ryan, with him eventually turning face against The Nexus like Batista did against Evolution.

[GatorBait19]

So off topic, my wife some friends and I went to a restaurant in new tampa area called wasabi which is a Japanese grill and we saw john cena. He was in our group for people we ate with. Real fun night all in and cena is funnier than crap.

[Remianen]

I'm not entirely sure this is an accurate statement. I believe he was still using "the Rock" when he was still with the WWE/F... He did like three movies while still technically in the WWE, and dropped "The Rock" from his name right after he left (I might be wrong, as I'm going off memmory/recollection). I know he did the two Mummy movies while still in the WWF/E.

 

He seemed to me to try and disconnect with the Wrestling, but nicely.... he wasn't "mean" in any way, never bad mouthed anyone, etc. I mean he just never seemed like he wanted to talk about it. To me, it was obvious. I just feel like he is acknowledging that he is able to be both people, without one hurting the other. I actually believe it would have helped him more if he would have been that way to start with.

 

chris, as usual, you miss the forest for the trees. He dropped 'The Rock' from his name for monetary reasons. Go back and look at the credits for every movie he did where he was billed as 'The Rock' or 'Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson'. You see that 'In Association with WWE Films' blurb? The name had to be licensed because it's owned by the 'E. Thus, cutting ties and dropping that from his name made him more attractive for a wider variety of roles since producers wouldn't have to give points to the 'E to use his 'stage name'.

 

My opinion is that I just think he didn't have to cut himself off like he did. I'm not saying to keep on wrestling, or anything like that... but to cut yourself off like he did almost entirely from the industry that loved him (and gave him the chance to do what he was doing) wasn't the brightest move. IF I were his friend I would have told him so. As I said, that's just my opinion.

 

The negative is something that you can't really see because it's not there to see. IF that's what your saying, then I agree.... However, your not that shallow are you?

 

Your not going to sit there and type that you don't understand that what I am saying is that I believe he could have done even better with the movies (had much more success) with the wrestling fans totally behind him?

 

Look at the success of the movie that ALOT of people went to see, when he was just a CGI character (The Mummy Returns/movie with him as the Scorpion King). When he was still "there" for the fans.... The success of that one movie, and the knowledge it has alot to do with him being in it, is what launched the Scorpion King in which he played the lead in. This was the reason his whole carreer took off in the first place.

 

If you refuse to acknowledge any wrestling fans as being able to support (in a pretty big way) a person enough to help them become successfull, then your even dissagreeing with what he said as "Dwayne" on Raw.

 

As I said, this is my opinion. You can't "see" the difference because there is no way to go back and see what would have happened had he played it differently. I'm just speculating (and going by the financial success, which has been acknowledged as because of the wrestling fans, of his first appearance in a big budget movie).

 

It might look like apples and oranges to you... and what effects Wrestling fans cannot effect movie fans (or vise versa), then there is no way I am going to get you to understand what I'm saying (although I believe you understood the first time).

 

Yeah, I mean look at the blockbuster numbers The Marine, 12 Rounds, and See No Evil did! Boy, those wrestling fans showed up in force. You do realize that 'Race to Witch Mountain' (the first movie he did solely as Dwayne Johnson, with his name above the title (thus, "carrying" the film) that didn't have a star-studded cast (like Get Smart)) grossed more money by itself than The Marine, 12 Rounds, and See No Evil combined, yes? Heck, throw 'The Condemned' in there too and it's still true. Sorry chris, I'm just not seeing this point of view that alienating wrestling fans (if you want to call it that) should be something you never do. He did what was best for advancing his career and I see nothing to prove that cowtowing to the wrestling audience would have increased the end result. Wrestling fans are notorious for ignoring movies starring the biggest wrestling names of the time. Notorious. Look it up. They can produce TV ratings (Nash Bridges) but box office magic? No. I guess they spend all their money on merch.

 

Also keep in mind that the Rock is a uniquely talented individual who crossed over effortlessly. Could you see Austin playing Elliott in 'Be Cool'? Hogan? Cena? I think you are grossly overestimating the impact of wrestling fans on other areas of entertainment. As someone has said already, there's still a stigma, a sort of taint, surrounding wrestling. So while WWE might be the most mainstream wrestling company, that doesn't make them 'mainstream' exactly. By that I mean, being a "star" in WWE doesn't necessarily make you a "star" outside of wrestling circles.

 

All that said, I loved that segment. I kinda hope chris is right and he doesn't come back fulltime (or more than sporadically) and I'd definitely hope he doesn't wrestle more than once more. I'd like to see him do more movies, being the more lucrative avenue available to him. By the time Simone's ready for college, it'll cost like a hundred grand a year. I just don't want to see him wind up like seemingly everyone else: physically devastated due to working that ridiculous schedule and dealing with injuries and such. I swear, wrestlers are getting up there with retired NFL players as far as post-retirement physical condition is concerned (no cartilage in the knees, need for hip/knee replacements, early onset arthritis/rheumatism, mental problems due to multiple untreated brain injuries, devastated financial status, etc). Get that money and pull a Will Smith.

[brashleyholland]

 

Also keep in mind that the Rock is a uniquely talented individual who crossed over effortlessly. Could you see Austin playing Elliott in 'Be Cool'? Hogan? Cena? I think you are grossly overestimating the impact of wrestling fans on other areas of entertainment. As someone has said already, there's still a stigma, a sort of taint, surrounding wrestling. So while WWE might be the most mainstream wrestling company, that doesn't make them 'mainstream' exactly. By that I mean, being a "star" in WWE doesn't necessarily make you a "star" outside of wrestling circles.

 

 

^^These are the money comments right here ^^

 

As someone who has devoted his life to MMA in every way possible, from competing, writing, promoting and even getting some sexy 'Vale Tudo' and 'R' (and only a true MMA geek will get know what that means!) tattoos, I'll happily admit that no MMA fighter is going to crack the box office on the back of being an MMA fighter. Same for wrestlers.

 

There are numerous movies to prove the point. Same as there are numerous movies 'staring' wrestlers to prove the point. The Rock is one of those unique talents. It's nothing to do with him being a wrestler, it's everything to do with him being 'The Rock'. One of a kind.

[jbergey_2005]

I don't agree with this at all. With the right story and the right talent, you can make a CM Punk or The Miz into a "megastar" type guy. I mean WWF in 1996-97 had lost nearly every proven main event draw they had ever had, and were left with a couple of excellent workers the casual fans never showed any interest in. But in 1998, despite losing both of those workers to injury and screwjobs, WWF had a banner year and suddenly caught mainstream attention. But if you had told those casual fans in 1996 that they would pay to see Steve Austin or Rocky Maivia wrestle anybody, they would've looked at you like you were crazy. Those guys caught fire because there was a big power vacuum and they stepped in and filled it with their ability to connect with the crowd along with a compelling story. There's no reason to think that the casual fan will never be interested again or that no one will ever come along that connects with fans to the same extent.

 

Of course great storylines and exciting performers are going to bring back fans however comparing it to the late 90s is a bit extreme I think. The talent in the late 90s was great and while the NWO angle was drawing in new fans the WWF was developing new talent which would eventually steal those fans that the NWO angle had brought in. I think the worst thing the WWE has done to themselves is sort of create a monopoly on the wrestling business. Now they have no other company to help them build stars. Perhaps they need a company to steal talent from to keep their own guys looking strong.

[lazorbeak]

chris, as usual, you miss the forest for the trees. He dropped 'The Rock' from his name for monetary reasons. Go back and look at the credits for every movie he did where he was billed as 'The Rock' or 'Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson'. You see that 'In Association with WWE Films' blurb? The name had to be licensed because it's owned by the 'E. Thus, cutting ties and dropping that from his name made him more attractive for a wider variety of roles since producers wouldn't have to give points to the 'E to use his 'stage name'.

 

I've mentioned this at least once before, but Rock owns his name rights and has for some time. Vince stopped getting executive producer credits way back in 2005's Be Cool, despite Rock continuing to use that name and Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson for several years.

 

He started going by the hybrid and then the Dwayne Johnson name because while "The Rock" remains a somewhat viable action movie brand name (despite action movies no longer being the box office draws they once were), Dwayne Johnson could make family films or Get Smart or Witch Mountain without being solely associated with the negative stigma of being a wrassler.

 

jbergey: I definitely agree with you that the 90's are not identical in all ways to the current situation. But my point is you have the advantage of hindsight over the 90's. While it was happening, the perception was that WWF was in trouble, because they had lost all their proven draws. And nobody could have predicted in 1996 that the Ringmaster would be one of the all-time greats or that Rocky Maivia would be going over Hogan at Wrestlemania within 6 years' time.

 

The biggest problem though is that as you say, all of WWF's big stars (except the Rock), gained significant experience elsewhere. The industry in general was far healthier so you had a lot of guys who worked up the ranks by gaining experience in smaller promotions, including WCW in the early 90's when it was a distant #2. Now, even if Sheamus or Jack Swagger have the potential to be big names, they lack the years of experience that any midcarder in WWE would've possessed as recently as 12 years ago.

[milamber]

Think there will be any Nexus vs. Corre at Elimination Chamber?

 

Only if Corre turn face or most fans won't know who to root for. Don't mind them turning face except Barrett who's better as a heel right now.

[BurningHamster]

The monster push almost always works. Take a guy like Otunga and once he gets more experience and is a little better in the ring. Turn him face and let him destroy everyone in Nexus 1 by 1. First month he goes against the lowest guy. Then the following the next guy up. Then the 3rd month both of them in a gauntlet match. Followed by the big guy (whoever it is at the time) and then the leader.

 

I don't know if Otunga could be a mega draw but I think people have already shown some interest in him character wise. With improvement that guy could make some $$$ I think.

 

Otunga fricken sucks and pushing a pansy like him as a monster would make me cry. He might have a decent look (but decent is about it) and some basic charisma but he is horrible in the ring and I could not buy him as a monster. Dude is Nathan Jones level in the ring and Jones was way more believable as a monster. WWE fans might be able to go for it but I am not the least bit concerned with anyone's enjoyment but my own so screw what they think.

[juggaloninjalee]

Otunga fricken sucks and pushing a pansy like him as a monster would make me cry. He might have a decent look (but decent is about it) and some basic charisma but he is horrible in the ring and I could not buy him as a monster. Dude is Nathan Jones level in the ring and Jones was way more believable as a monster. WWE fans might be able to go for it but I am not the least bit concerned with anyone's enjoyment but my own so screw what they think.

 

I agree Otunga isn't good in the ring. He does have a look and charisma though and if you push him as a heel it hides a lot of his flaws. He would need a lot of work though. My only point was I could see him in 10 years being something and a lot of people could become really good in wrestling with time and practice.

[juggaloninjalee]

Double Post*

[PeterHilton]

jbergey: I definitely agree with you that the 90's are not identical in all ways to the current situation. But my point is you have the advantage of hindsight over the 90's. While it was happening, the perception was that WWF was in trouble, because they had lost all their proven draws. And nobody could have predicted in 1996 that the Ringmaster would be one of the all-time greats or that Rocky Maivia would be going over Hogan at Wrestlemania within 6 years' time.

 

The biggest problem though is that as you say, all of WWF's big stars (except the Rock), gained significant experience elsewhere. The industry in general was far healthier so you had a lot of guys who worked up the ranks by gaining experience in smaller promotions, including WCW in the early 90's when it was a distant #2. Now, even if Sheamus or Jack Swagger have the potential to be big names, they lack the years of experience that any midcarder in WWE would've possessed as recently as 12 years ago.

 

Agree with jbergey and with what lazorbeak is putting here.

 

I say this roughly every 6th post, but the WWE has spent so much time attempting to eliminate the 'unpredictability' of the talent development process, that they've also cut out a good bit of the raw creativity.

 

There's no place to work up the ranks, they try to avoid hiring indy workers unless they fall into strict 'WWE guidelines' ...maybe the hiring of Mistico is a sign of things to come where the only 'proven commodiities' they will work to aquire will be stars from other countries.

[Tag01]

So is it safe to assume that Rock will only be around through Wrestlemania? I haven't watched wrestling at all since I got married but am intrigued with Rocky being back. If I thought he was going to be around a while I might turn it on again...

[ampulator]

Agree with jbergey and with what lazorbeak is putting here.

 

I say this roughly every 6th post, but the WWE has spent so much time attempting to eliminate the 'unpredictability' of the talent development process, that they've also cut out a good bit of the raw creativity.

 

There's no place to work up the ranks, they try to avoid hiring indy workers unless they fall into strict 'WWE guidelines' ...maybe the hiring of Mistico is a sign of things to come where the only 'proven commodiities' they will work to aquire will be stars from other countries.

I don't mind "proven commodities"... that's just smart business.

 

What I DO mind is stifling creativity. Now, to be fair, the WWF was always pretty well controlled, even in beginning. But not to the degree it is today. I

[PoisonedSuperman]

I have a question that I always wondered and feel that some of you smarter fans can answer better then I can, what exactly shows that a guy is going to be a superstar?

 

For some reason I've been thinking this for a few days now, a few winters ago I went to a house show in Buffalo, NY where I live. My older brother who didn't/doesn't watch wrestling since he was younger told me after the show that Randy Orton was going to be a star one day. Orton was fueding with the Undertaker at the time (if this is any indication of the time period? Also Bobby Lashley just made the main roster).

 

His explanation? Anyone could look good doing the moves but Randy Orton "Knew how to take an ass whooping and that's whats most important". So as I said I've been thinking about it over the past few days, and I guess he is kind of right. How do YOU know and who is a good example of a young guy that you feel is your prospect for the future?

[Jaysin]

Well the second my brother saw Ken Anderson wrestle his first match on Velocity he said "Wow, this guy is going somewhere some day."

 

My brother does that a lot. Ken wasn't even being booked to look strong in the match, but some how he was able to just look at him in the ring and knew he'd go some where.

[LoNdOn]

With Ziggler being "fired" my money is on Triple H making his return at the Chamber in his place.

 

Thoughts?