Nathers7 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="bigtplaystew" data-cite="bigtplaystew" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>What is a heel? Someone who gets booed? Someone who puts ovr babyfaces?<p> </p><p> Isn't Cena getting booed? Didn't Cena (at least help) put over CM Punk? Is the old idea of what a heel is dead and done and they are just going into this years mania as is?</p><p> </p><p> Who knows?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> A heel is someone who does things that are morally wrong, think every person in WWE that gets booed more than cheered that's not Cena.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 <p>To me, a heel is a character <em>designed</em> to get a negative reaction. Doesn't have to necessarily be morally wrong, although since the Attitude-era's reign of the anti-hero, that's the go-to move nowadays. Squeaky clean Kurt Angle was a heel. Steve Austin occassionally stepped outside of good morals, but was definitely a babyface. As far as I can tell, John Cena is being booked to be liked. He overcomes odds, appeals to children, teams with The Rock... He is meant to be liked. That makes him a babyface. How <em> successful</em> a babyface? That's another question.</p><p> </p><p> I'm hoping he plays heel for his feud with The Rock, but whereas in the past I wanted his character to have a big character shift (ala Crow Sting) now I hope he doesn't change his character at all. Exact same dude, positioned differently. I thought his reactions in the main event were superb in contrast to Rock's. Rock is an adult ass-kicker. Cena is... There's something there that with very little shift, can make him a sickeningly sweet, pandering heel. I don't want Cena to become a bad ass heel. That would be counterproductive. I want permission to boo corporate-shill Cena, in all his rainbow tshirt glory.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucleardonkey Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="1234" data-cite="1234" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Were the commentators saying that Henry has never tapped, or is that something you just added? Because:<p> </p><p> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6UlQ1E-yJ4" rel="external nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6UlQ1E-yJ4</a></p><p> </p><p> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiuWOvusSUs&feature=related" rel="external nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiuWOvusSUs&feature=related</a></p><p> </p><p> </p><div class="ipsEmbeddedVideo"><div><iframe width="200" height="150" src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/OEUli5XGbWE?feature=oembed" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="" title="John Cena STFU on Mark Henry"></iframe></div></div><p> </p><p> And I am sure there are more.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That's something I just would assume should anyone make Henry tap during his current run that the announcers would make a point to say....whether it's true or not. It would make sense too to make a big deal about anyone making him tap during this current run seeing as he's pretty much the unbeatable monster right now.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathers7 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Self" data-cite="Self" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>To me, a heel is a character <em>designed</em> to get a negative reaction. Doesn't have to necessarily be morally wrong, although since the Attitude-era's reign of the anti-hero, that's the go-to move nowadays. Squeaky clean Kurt Angle was a heel. Steve Austin occassionally stepped outside of good morals, but was definitely a babyface. As far as I can tell, John Cena is being booked to be liked. He overcomes odds, appeals to children, teams with The Rock... He is meant to be liked. That makes him a babyface. How <em> successful</em> a babyface? That's another question.<p> </p><p> I'm hoping he plays heel for his feud with The Rock, but whereas in the past I wanted his character to have a big character shift (ala Crow Sting) now I hope he doesn't change his character at all. Exact same dude, positioned differently. I thought his reactions in the main event were superb in contrast to Rock's. Rock is an adult ass-kicker. Cena is... There's something there that with very little shift, can make him a sickeningly sweet, pandering heel. I don't want Cena to become a bad ass heel. That would be counterproductive. I want permission to boo corporate-shill Cena, in all his rainbow tshirt glory.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yea, I worded it wrong when I said it but as you say during the PG era that's the way things have been.</p><p> </p><p> I agree that Cena using this character could work in this scenario as he has The Rock to bounce off but what happens after Wrestlemania? Does Cena just keep the same personna, winning a few more WWE titles in the process?</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepy Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Nathers7" data-cite="Nathers7" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yea, I worded it wrong when I said it but as you say during the PG era that's the way things have been.<p> </p><p> I agree that Cena using this character could work in this scenario as he has The Rock to bounce off but what happens after Wrestlemania? Does Cena just keep the same personna, winning a few more WWE titles in the process?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Cena needs to turn heel fast. The problem is that most of the heels he's gone up against have ended up having to turn face as people end up supporting the underdog rather than the unbeatable Cena. </p><p> </p><p> No matter how many times you can stick Cena in the ring with CM Punk and tell the fans to cheer for Cena, eventually they will switch and become Punk fans and boo Cena. </p><p> </p><p> I really don't get the hesitation with turning him. Triple H showed how you can pull off being a heel and still move merchandise and draw crowds. If the WWE could pull off 6 months of solid story telling in turning Cena heel and elevating a face to go up against him it could easily be the shot in the arm it needs to get the ratings going up.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha Black Phenom Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="nucleardonkey" data-cite="nucleardonkey" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Overall it was a good PPV but it didn't have that MSG feel of being something truly special. It needed that one WOW moment and being the 20th anniversary of Taker's debut, the chance to give a possible future super star his first major title reign, the perfect crowd to make the top face into the top heel they had the perfect crowd to make any of those 3 moments (Taker's return, Dragon's first world title, or Cena's heel turn) into that WOW moment that makes MSG shows so special.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think the last MSG show was a bit of a dud so I didn't think much of that, but I see what you mean. To me, the somewhat WOW moment was The Rock's performance(and maybe his promo). Last match of the night and he showed he still got it.</p><p> </p><p> Solid PPV, and equally stoked about Punk winning the title.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 The Entertainment Era has begun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 <p>You guys are over-analyzing what it means to be a heel. A heel is meant to put shine on a babyface by drawing heat. All that other stuff is secondary. Cena <em>was </em>a heel when he put a shine on Punk this year, and most likely he will be a heel again at Wrestlemania against the Rock, considering the standard PPV ticket buying crowd and the fact that it's in Rock's hometown. </p><p> </p><p> Saying he needs to "turn heel" ignores that if he went out there and did a more aggressive character, the same crowd booing him now would probably start cheering for him- kind of like they did during his original heel run. It would also probably take several months of heel-ish acts before kids realized he was a bad guy now and they should stop cheering for him unless he turned at a show like the Rumble or Wrestlemania, since the majority of WWE's audience doesn't watch every show.</p><p> </p><p> But as is, there's nothing wrong with Cena's character right now.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew222 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I just noticed something......its been about 80 Minutes and has Miz and Truth still not come? I mean reallY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatChizzle Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 <p>John Cena was a good face when he was first "rapping".....</p><p> </p><p> Then WWE put out John Cena's Rap CD.....</p><p> </p><p> If you have actually listened to it, you easily realize that John Cena is a fraud rapper. I think that is the reason why all the guys in the crowd turned on him. Yes his rapping was funny when he started it, funny in promos, but his Rap CD was terrible, and it shows.</p><p> </p><p> Cena needs to drop his theme music and change his gimmick. He is loved by the kiddo's and the Ladies like his look, but most of the guys realized that he was a fake, fraud rapper and that needs a change...</p><p> </p><p> On another note, I noticed that Vince McMahon is allowing "Air Boom" to break one of the "rules" in wrestling. Ever since the 80's, it was told over and over that every Title had to be defended at least once in 30 days.... well since Evan has been suspended due to his weed problem, they haven't defended it in 30 days.... </p><p> I guess since "Air Boom" is the only tag team in WWE now, they can't actually strip the Tag Titles from them. It's not like they could put the Tag Titles in a tournament.... <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> Heh, Just Sayin....</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdWarrior Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 <p>I'm not 100% sure what to make of WWE's new gimmick of advertising things and then not delivering. First there was the Michael Cole Challenge, which was postponed for like three weeks, then there's Bodus Clay's debut, which has apparently been postponed also, and tonight, Jonah Hill was advertised to appear on Raw, and at no point during the show, do I remember seeing him. </p><p> </p><p> Other than that, I found it to be a pretty good Raw, the Punk-Ziggler match in particular was good.</p><p> </p><p> Just found that one thing a bit odd.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20LEgend Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 <p>Have we seen this?</p><p> </p><p> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZzdJHeb9ns&feature=player_embedded" rel="external nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZzdJHeb9ns&feature=player_embedded</a></p><p> </p><p> apparently the link came up during Raw last night.</p><p> </p><p> People saying a Jericho return (I hope so.) Some "evidence" is the return is 1/2/12 and it was on youtube so... Youtube 2nd January = Y2J <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> itbegins2012 is the youtube account which is linked to the end of the world thing: <a href="http://itbegins2012.com/" rel="external nofollow">http://itbegins2012.com/</a></p><p> </p><p> pwinsider explain it better actually <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="pwinsider" data-cite="pwinsider" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>During Raw one of the Twitter plugs, the graphic turned to static and listed a Youtube address. At that address was a video, which is building to a return at the 1/2/12 Memphis Raw taping. You can watch the video below:</div></blockquote> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milamber Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 <p>Yep, no Brodus Clay again! Not happy. Raw was actually pretty good, though. And I disagree with Punk. His match against Ziggler was exactly what I wanted to see. So if Punk retains against ADR does that mean he'll face Nash at TLC? Wait a second, they didn't have room for Clay or Nash. They'd better make Raw 4 hours long next week <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/wink.png.686f06e511ee1fbf6bdc7d82f6831e53.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> Anyone catch the masked Kane promo. I'd like to see Kane angry at Big Show for taking away his chance at revenge on Henry and have them fight at TLC.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabataged Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="20LEgend" data-cite="20LEgend" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Have we seen this?<p> </p><p> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZzdJHeb9ns&feature=player_embedded" rel="external nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZzdJHeb9ns&feature=player_embedded</a></p><p> </p><p> apparently the link came up during Raw last night.</p><p> </p><p> People saying a Jericho return (I hope so.) Some "evidence" is the return is 1/2/12 and it was on youtube so... Youtube 2nd January = Y2J <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> itbegins2012 is the youtube account which is linked to the end of the world thing: <a href="http://itbegins2012.com/" rel="external nofollow">http://itbegins2012.com/</a></p><p> </p><p> pwinsider explain it better actually <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> I am pretty sure it has to be Taker.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astil Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="sabataged" data-cite="sabataged" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I am pretty sure it has to be Taker.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Id love for it to be Jericho just so he can feud with Punk and I can be happy.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathers7 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Seems too creepy to be Jericho and too predictable to be Taker although they seem the most likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juggaloninjalee Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 <p>Jericho will be back on Jan. 2nd 2012.</p><p> </p><p> Kinda happy Kane is coming back soon too.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaynes23 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 So R-Truth got suspended 30 days. They must have added other things than painkillers and PED's to the suspendable list because the guys getting suspended don't really strike me as roid heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan93 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="SHaynes23" data-cite="SHaynes23" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So R-Truth got suspended 30 days. They must have added other things than painkillers and PED's to the suspendable list because the guys getting suspended don't really strike me as roid heads.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It's synthetic marijuana.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juggaloninjalee Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="SHaynes23" data-cite="SHaynes23" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So R-Truth got suspended 30 days. They must have added other things than painkillers and PED's to the suspendable list because the guys getting suspended don't really strike me as roid heads.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Small guys take steroids too. It helps you recover from injuries quicker.</p><p> </p><p> Although I am sure Bourne and Truth were suspended for marijuana.</p><p> </p><p> Truth could do a form of steroids though. Who knows really?</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eayragt Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Cena being a face makes his matches with RVD, Punk and The Rock sooo much better. Sure, I get as bored as the next guy week in week out and would prefer a heel turn, but Cena / Punk would haven't meant half as much if Cena was a heel. Sure, it's one payoff a year, but it's a massive payoff. And WWE work it well, as generally they know which arenas he will be a booed in and put him with someone (Punk / Rock) which helps get them over. Rock Cena works better with Cena as a hated face rather than a heel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juggaloninjalee Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="eayragt" data-cite="eayragt" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Cena being a face makes his matches with RVD, Punk and The Rock sooo much better. Sure, I get as bored as the next guy week in week out and would prefer a heel turn, but Cena / Punk would haven't meant half as much if Cena was a heel.<p> </p><p> Sure, it's one payoff a year, but it's a massive payoff. And WWE work it well, as generally they know which arenas he will be a booed in and put him with someone (Punk / Rock) which helps get them over.</p><p> </p><p> Rock Cena works better with Cena as a hated face rather than a heel.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I sort of agree. Cena and Punk made Punk cooler than he was because for once the basic WWE fan who was tired of Cena saw Punk how all of us internet fans saw him. He was saying what everyone who was sick of Cena was thinking. If Cena wasn't the opponent in that feud then he wouldn't have gotten as over no matter what he said and no matter who else it was against.</p><p> </p><p> I also believe when Cenas truly gotten stale even among the younger fans they will turn him but that won't be any time soon. Plus the WWE likes to tease a heel turn for Cena. We all know Cena can work as a heel really well too. He is an amazing talent when it comes to controlling the crowd and there is no denying that.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moe Hunter Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 <p>"It's the end of the world as we know it", says that kid in the video. That can only mean one thing...</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> REM will get back together for a one-night-only concert on Raw!</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 <p>I think the idea of an overt "heel turn" for Cena would be ultimately disappointing. I don't want to see cheesy "I always hated the fans..." type promos from Cena. That's just lazy writing.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I like that he's getting booed and that it's being addressed. He's portraying a traditional Cena character that's struggling with fan perception. I find that considerably more interesting than the guy who just makes an obvious heel turn and cheeses up the joint. I'd like to see Cena with a bit more attitude myself, but I'm talking evolving the existing character rather than change it completely.</p><p> </p><p> I said it before and don't want to spend a ton of time repeating it, but I really like this angle going into WM28. It's different and new. I like what Cena's done for the past few months. His work with Punk was outstanding and did great things for both characters if you ask me. Unfortunately, it didnt give WWE the massive ratings boost they were looking for. But if they try to focus on good writing and developing more compelling and ambiguous characters (which is huge on TV right now) then I think they'll find more long term success with RAW as a TV show.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Century Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Hmmm, if what I've heard on the dirt sheets is true, John Morrison's contract will be expiring after the next Raw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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