The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Fantabulous]

http://www.ewrestlingnews.com/news/5064/breaking-update-brock-lesnar-flips-out-backstage

 

Annndd Lesnar cries like a little baby.

 

And marks fall for the bait.

[akujy]

Forgot to say: I also find it funny that the company will struggle to find ideas to keep him in and out of storylines, this from a company that virtually runned Taker feuds without him even setting foot on the TV shows. And Taker is just one of the cases. IF i get uspet by something is hearing that writers can't come up with ideas for something. Please, c'mon! Writers are suposed to have imagination, or they shouldn't be writers, and there are a lot of ways of making him feud with only 2 appearences a month without the need to explaing anything at all!

[bigtplaystew]

By that argument at one point Ken Doane was a better promo worker than CM Punk because he was higher on the card.

 

 

There's a difference between comparing a bonafide main eventer versus an indy star. A guy being higher on the card is a completely different discussion. I'm just talking about successful work. A good promo worker draws money.

 

Either way. at that point in their career, I don't think either Punk or Doane were drawing much money on their own. In 2012, Orton's drawn alot more money than Ambrose, any arguments there?

 

As far as personal opinion goes, we're all entitled to that. I can't say Jaysin's wrong because he isn't. He doesn't enjoy Orton's work but he enjoys Ambrose's. That's reasonable. I was just making the argument for why I feel Orton's probably the better promo worker.

[Fantabulous]

Forgot to say: I also find it funny that the company will struggle to find ideas to keep him in and out of storylines, this from a company that virtually runned Taker feuds without him even setting foot on the TV shows. And Taker is just one of the cases. IF i get uspet by something is hearing that writers can't come up with ideas for something. Please, c'mon! Writers are suposed to have imagination, or they shouldn't be writers, and there are a lot of ways of making him feud with only 2 appearences a month without the need to explaing anything at all!

 

Only in wrestling can creative fail to come up with an idea and the wrestler be the one to get fired over it.

[Astil]

There's a difference between comparing a bonafide main eventer versus an indy star. A guy being higher on the card is a completely different discussion. I'm just talking about successful work. A good promo worker draws money.

 

Either way. at that point in their career, I don't think either Punk or Doane were drawing much money on their own. In 2012, Orton's drawn alot more money than Ambrose, any arguments there?

 

As far as personal opinion goes, we're all entitled to that. I can't say Jaysin's wrong because he isn't. He doesn't enjoy Orton's work but he enjoys Ambrose's. That's reasonable. I was just making the argument for why I feel Orton's probably the better promo worker.

 

Okay take Doane out, put in Bobby Lashley, who was a main eventer. Or Batista. You going to argue Batista cuts a better promo than Punk? I feel this arguement is flawed.

 

I actually agree with you that Orton cuts a better promo than Ambrose/Moxley but I like Orton's promo work, hate him in the ring.

[Self]

Personally, I'd say Orton has never really drawn based on his talking ability. The majority of his appeal seems to come from his presence, his working ability, and how he's been pushed. Which is awesome. More power to him. I dig it. He doesn't really need to talk though.

 

I find Dean Ambrose more entertaining to listen to, which I guess is what others are saying too. Ultimately, the mark of an effective promo is one that talk butts into seats, but there's something to be said of being a captivating, engaging, charismatic public speaker. Arguably something Ambrose has over Orton, who as I stated, has a lot of other advantages he relies on than just talking.

[Hyde Hill]

See, to me, the only way to judge a good promo is look at the drawing power of a wrestler. Of course there are alot of factors that work into drawing power, I just see no other way to gauge good promo work beyond personal opinion other than to look at the money.

 

Randy Orton, love him or hate him, is a major draw for the WWE and has been over the years. He's dropped to upper mid card but he's a guy who can be back in the main event picture at any moment. He's headlined wrestlemanias. Sold PPVs. Put butts in seats.

 

With all due respect to Dean Ambrose, of whom I happen to be a big fan, he's just not at Orton's level yet. I see a ton of potential tho, Jaysin and I'm sure we agree he could be a big big part of the company in the future.

 

But until he sells out big shows like Randy has, I'm giving Orton the nod for promo work. He simply has drawn more money with his promo work than Ambrose.

 

Horse, Cart wrong way.

 

Dislike both Orton (boring) and Ziggler (cookie cutter, overrated by IWC atm just like Miz last year, and even worse promo).

 

BTW anybody else kinda frowning on a Smackdown guy and an old announcer guy being in the top ten for the top RAW belt. Ace can prolly explain it away easy but still bleh.

 

If Smackdown guys can now even challenge for the titles in such a direct way lets just totally end the split please.

[akujy]

Only in wrestling can creative fail to come up with an idea and the wrestler be the one to get fired over it.

 

True. Though Fox mainly used this explanation with the Jennifer Morrison's dismissal of House, when in fact we all know that it was nothing more then a budget cut. There was a lot to do with Cameron, but they chose to stay with a part-time Olivia Wilde, oh well. But yeah, only in wrestling we see that happening, at least at this level.

[bigtplaystew]

Okay take Doane out, put in Bobby Lashley, who was a main eventer. Or Batista. You going to argue Batista cuts a better promo than Punk? I feel this arguement is flawed.

 

I actually agree with you that Orton cuts a better promo than Ambrose/Moxley but I like Orton's promo work, hate him in the ring.

 

Look I said there are other factors that go into drawing power. In general, good promos draw money. This isn't debatable really. Are there exceptions? For sure.

 

We can always have personal favorites and what not, but a good way to look at promo work objectively is to look at a measurable expression of success: Money.

 

So of course I'm speaking generally here. But reasonably, just look at a guy's path and what brought him success. I doubt anyone thinks Lashley's promo work made him a success. Obviously, Orton's promo work contributed to his.

[Hyde Hill]

Only in wrestling can creative fail to come up with an idea and the wrestler be the one to get fired over it.

 

On a similar note, a winner of a televised talent contest for a contract, which he already had, be released while some of the people that where eliminated well before him, and even first, due to lack of talent/passion etc be under contract and on television while even better talent never got signed.

[Hyde Hill]

Look I said there are other factors that go into drawing power. In general, good promos draw money. This isn't debatable really. Are there exceptions? For sure.

 

 

That is not what or how you said it first. But yeah good promo skills can be a good factor in drawing money. Although on a side not in this day and age individual wrestlers, even ME, are not that big a factor in drawing as before imho.

 

But taking a TEW example for me Orton has mediocre mic skills, they just made the character fit his style of promo's, but good charisma, for some, and acting skills, that fit the character, and very good star quality and a hell of a push.

[akujy]

On a similar note, a winner of a televised talent contest for a contract, which he already had, be released while some of the people that where eliminated well before him, and even first, due to lack of talent/passion etc be under contract and on television while even better talent never got signed.

 

Can you be more clear? I didn't got that one. Who are you talking about?

[bigtplaystew]

That is not what or how you said it first.

 

 

No? Maybe you might want to look at my post where I originally made my point:

 

See, to me, the only way to judge a good promo is look at the drawing power of a wrestler. Of course there are alot of factors that work into drawing power, I just see no other way to gauge good promo work beyond personal opinion other than to look at the money.

 

Randy Orton, love him or hate him, is a major draw for the WWE and has been over the years. He's dropped to upper mid card but he's a guy who can be back in the main event picture at any moment. He's headlined wrestlemanias. Sold PPVs. Put butts in seats.

 

With all due respect to Dean Ambrose, of whom I happen to be a big fan, he's just not at Orton's level yet. I see a ton of potential tho, Jaysin and I'm sure we agree he could be a big big part of the company in the future.

 

But until he sells out big shows like Randy has, I'm giving Orton the nod for promo work. He simply has drawn more money with his promo work than Ambrose.

 

 

 

:-)

 

 

 

Anyway, it's apples and oranges I guess. I like Orton. Like Ambrose alot too. Just think one's a more proven mic worker by far. That's all.

[crownsy]

http://www.ewrestlingnews.com/news/5064/breaking-update-brock-lesnar-flips-out-backstage

 

Annndd Lesnar cries like a little baby.

 

Screams work so hard it made me chuckle.

[LoganRodzen]

I don't think Cena getting up after the show and cutting a promo to the live crowd was a 'double-cross' but I do think Vinnie Mac had it pre-planned for Cena to do it if Lesnar tried making Cena look bad... which I think he tried doing multiple times. He was also extremely stiff and I'm not surprised he'll be away from WWE for awhile. He could have injured Cena during that match multiple times. I don't even like John Cena (I did in '03-early '04 but that's about it) and I'm siding with him over a guy (Lesnar) who I think can make WWE really interesting again.

 

Who watched that match? I didn't order the PPV but I had to find the match and watch it (which I just did). I was actually surprised at how stiff Lesnar was throughout the entire match. I shouldn't have been surprised considering what he came from (which I didn't see anything of, I'm just not into UFC).

[ampulator]

I don't think Cena getting up after the show and cutting a promo to the live crowd was a 'double-cross' but I do think Vinnie Mac had it pre-planned for Cena to do it if Lesnar tried making Cena look bad... which I think he tried doing multiple times. He was also extremely stiff and I'm not surprised he'll be away from WWE for awhile. He could have injured Cena during that match multiple times. I don't even like John Cena (I did in '03-early '04 but that's about it) and I'm siding with him over a guy (Lesnar) who I think can make WWE really interesting again.

 

Who watched that match? I didn't order the PPV but I had to find the match and watch it (which I just did). I was actually surprised at how stiff Lesnar was throughout the entire match. I shouldn't have been surprised considering what he came from (which I didn't see anything of, I'm just not into UFC).

I heard it's a work that only few know if it's REALLY a work within the WWE. Like, Lesnar went apeshit "for real" but wasn't really angry.

[Hyde Hill]

Can you be more clear? I didn't got that one. Who are you talking about?

 

Tough Enough winner Andy Levine the one that got fired. Some others still with the company in fcw mainly and the one that got eliminated first is one of Brodus's dancers and works in fcw

[djthefunkchris]

Yeah, but those dancers are "hot".

[TakerNGN74]

Tough Enough winner Andy Levine the one that got fired. Some others still with the company in fcw mainly and the one that got eliminated first is one of Brodus's dancers and works in fcw

 

You mean the chick that when asked by Austin what her favoriote match was she responded with "Melina vs. Alicia Fox" That just made me sick to think that people that know absolutely nothing about the product have jobs because sadly she was signed to a contract the day after she got eliminated from Tough Enough.

[Guest codey]

Tough Enough winner Andy Levine the one that got fired. Some others still with the company in fcw mainly and the one that got eliminated first is one of Brodus's dancers and works in fcw

 

I thought he was talking about Daniel Puder, who was on Tough Enough with The Boogeyman, The Miz, and Ryback.

 

Didn't realize Andy Levine was fired.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah it happened with other tough enough's as well and the diva searches but this one is probably the most glaring.

[akujy]

Yeah it happened with other tough enough's as well and the diva searches but this one is probably the most glaring.

 

I have no idea why they chose the guys/girls they chose to win if they are not going to sign them. They should chose people they intend to sign as winners. I just don't get it.

[Hyde Hill]

I have no idea why they chose the guys/girls they chose to win if they are not going to sign them. They should chose people they intend to sign as winners. I just don't get it.

 

Ad into that that Andy was already signed before they started lolz. And Austin Aries didn't get in because he was too short reportedly but Matt cross is shorter.

[eayragt]

And marks fall for the bait.

 

Marks have more fun watching wrestling. Nothing to pity or mock there.

[Hive]

Marks have more fun watching wrestling. Nothing to pity or mock there.

 

Very much so. I wish I could press a button and become a mark again myself. So much more enjoyable, by far.

 

And now to something different: does anyone here actually think Booker T is a good color commentator? It baffles me how poor the guy is at it. Maybe it would help if he tried speaking words clearly for a change.