fullMETAL Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I remember reading that there was in fact the very real possibility that the whole Montreal Screwjob was just a giant work between Bret, Shawn, and Vince, meant to give both Bret and Shawn big pushes (in WCW and WWF, respectively) but that WCW's subsequent mishandling of Bret put the kibosh on that and essentially turned the best work since Bret/Owen into possibly the most legendary piece of wrestling folklore EVER. How else do you explain the rather, er, mild, way that Bret and Shawn made up when Bret was GM of RAW a few years back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubernoob Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Time heals all wounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I remember reading that there was in fact the very real possibility that the whole Montreal Screwjob was just a giant work between Bret, Shawn, and Vince, meant to give both Bret and Shawn big pushes (in WCW and WWF, respectively) but that WCW's subsequent mishandling of Bret put the kibosh on that and essentially turned the best work since Bret/Owen into possibly the most legendary piece of wrestling folklore EVER. How else do you explain the rather, er, mild, way that Bret and Shawn made up when Bret was GM of RAW a few years back? Is this a real question? The answer is Bret was incredibly bitter for the rest of his entire professional career, and didn't have anything to do with Vince/Shawn/the WWE at large for a decade. In that time, Shawn stopped doing drugs, found religion, and behind the scenes made peace with Bret, which was probably easier considering Bret's health scares probably put his life into perspective. Then they appeared together on a wrestling TV show together to get a pop out of the crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Another thing Cornette has said about why Shamrock would have been a good choice, if Vince was set on Survivor Series being the place for the change, was that if all the "Anyone but Shawn" stuff was a load of smoke Bret has been blowing and he had tried to refuse to lose, Shamrock was legit enough to just drop Bret for real to win the match. In the end, looking at it with adult eyes, I feel Bret was probably in the wrong. It's not up to him to make booking decisions. WWF didn't treat him right on his way out and all, but still, you're getting paid to wrestle not come up with your own version of the story. Bret had the contractual right to refuse to do the job at the time of Montreal, a contractual right Shawn never had on the many occasions when he refused to do a job. Given that Shawn had told Bret point blank on at least two occasions that he would never do a job for him, and that Shawn had also said he wasn't going to do a job for anyone, all in the lead up to Montreal, I think it was more then reasonable for Bret to exercise his contractual right and refuse to job to Shawn in Montreal. In the end, Bret did agree to drop the title anyone, including Shawn, just not to Shawn in Canada. The notion that Bret refused to drop the title at all before he left is completely wrong. And Bret's issue was not about dropping the title. It was about dropping it to a man who was, by own admission, being a complete asshole to him and was legendary for being unprofessional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 the TLC match was one of the best gimmick matches I've seen in a long, long time actually watched the first 2 TLC matches over the weekend and have to say this match even topped them despite the limitations and more tame environment Fantastic match Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyb Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 There was someone in the crowd, at TLC, with a sign saying "Elijah". I only saw them briefly, but I think it was actually Elijah Burke. I'm not suggesting that there's anymore to it than him watching a show, but it made me smile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I didn't know Bret had creative control over his character. In fact, I was under the impression WWF didn't offer contracts like that. But I don't know. If what you're saying is true that definitely would shed a different light on the situation. If he contractually had creative control over his character and was offered the right to refuse to drop it to whoever he wants, I definitely see why he wouldn'tdrop it to Shawn if he had that right. I don't think that's where he went wrong though. The problem is he was asked to lose a match, then utterly refused to do it. Something he in his own words said he'd never done before. Now he's asking Vince to trust him that'll he'll show up on Raw, which I believe would have been an appearance not under contract... And if he did, so and what? He wanted to relinquish the belt on Raw. That's what he said in the Hitman Hart documentary. That completely destroys the strength of the title and I see how Vince couldn't let that happen. No one was right there. You have two sides to the story, The WWE's and Bret's. Both sides let their puffed up chests do the thinking. WWE did Bret dirty that whole period after he resigned with them so I can see how if he had the contractual control over his character I see why he wanted things a certain way. I never heard that he had that right in his contract though until Fantabulous just posted it, but I must admit I haven't read Bret's book since it came out and that was years ago so I am NOT calling him a liar or anything f the sort. Just saying I never heard that anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FINisher Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 "I'm here to show the world.." Actually quite enjoyable event. Altough I could have done without the 30cm backdrop from AJ to Vickie and the aptly named "jumping neck-grab-fall" from Cena to Ziggler.. I'm surprised Cena didn't injure him. Great crowd, quite good matches, right winners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Divas match was go awful as usual. Brooklyn Brawler winning a match? Awful. Drew's new look is awesome though, but he look looks like Lance Hoyt's half brother or something. Good show from what I saw other the divas and Brooklyn Brawler. Ziggler and Cena was pretty good and I loved the TLC match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitywpi Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea of 3MB (A team of a white guy, an Indian, and a Scot) being racist against Mexicans. I mean... WTF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 they found a way to make ADR kinda interesting, if only for one night so even that is a plus. really good show Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThriceP86 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I want to like 3MB but it's just not working for them. I know there's a lot of love especially for McIntyre but seriously, do we need MizTV on a PPV? A very lackluster segment too. However, the TLC match was awesome and loved that The Shield looked strong. I'm surprised no one has mentioned that this should have happened when Nexus debuted not too long ago. Instead they jobbed every time. Big Show vs. Sheamus was really good but a terrible finish with that huge chair, that should have been a false finish if anything! It kind of made Sheamus look a little weak after such an intense match. The ladder match was really good too. There were some botched spots but Cena and Ziggler made up for it. The hurricanrana that Cena gave Ziggler into the table was ridiculous, in a good way! And I second the horrible spots that AJ had with Vickie towards the end. They haven't learned that Vickie can't wrestle, have they? Even the tables match between Sin Cara/Mysterio vs Rhodes Scholars was impressive. I can't wait until Rhodes Scholars are new tag team champions! I also can't wait for Cody to have the WWE Title too, he's getting there especially with the stache now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I didn't know Bret had creative control over his character. In fact, I was under the impression WWF didn't offer contracts like that. But I don't know. If what you're saying is true that definitely would shed a different light on the situation. If he contractually had creative control over his character and was offered the right to refuse to drop it to whoever he wants, I definitely see why he wouldn'tdrop it to Shawn if he had that right. I don't think that's where he went wrong though. The problem is he was asked to lose a match, then utterly refused to do it. Something he in his own words said he'd never done before. Now he's asking Vince to trust him that'll he'll show up on Raw, which I believe would have been an appearance not under contract... And if he did, so and what? He wanted to relinquish the belt on Raw. That's what he said in the Hitman Hart documentary. That completely destroys the strength of the title and I see how Vince couldn't let that happen. No one was right there. You have two sides to the story, The WWE's and Bret's. Both sides let their puffed up chests do the thinking. WWE did Bret dirty that whole period after he resigned with them so I can see how if he had the contractual control over his character I see why he wanted things a certain way. I never heard that he had that right in his contract though until Fantabulous just posted it, but I must admit I haven't read Bret's book since it came out and that was years ago so I am NOT calling him a liar or anything f the sort. Just saying I never heard that anywhere. Bret had the right to refuse any finish offered to him in the last 30 days of his contract. Bret's creative control is a pretty well known fact. Given how much the Montreal situation has been talked about over the years, I'm surprised you don't know about it but then again,your knowledge of the Montreal situation in general is pretty off. Bret never 'utterly refused' to a lose a match, and even if he did, it was his right to do so. Bret just didn't want to lose the match in question in Canada. Bret was still under contract to the WWF until the end of November so he couldn't have no-shown Raw if things had good smoothly. Bret did suggest relinquishing the title on Raw but that was not final plan agreed upon. The final plan that everyone had agreed to was a DQ finish in the main event at Survivor Series and then Bret would drop the title in a fatal four-way match at the December PPV. The problem here was that Vince only agreed to it to get Bret in the ring so he could screw him. Vince has given a few different reason as to why he ultimately decided to screw Bret but a lot of them don't hold water. His immediate defence, used to quell the locker room the night after Montreal, was that he was afraid Bret would show up on Nitro with the title. The problem with that one is that Bret was still under contract with the WWF until the end of November. Bret would not have legally been able to show up on Nitro even if he wanted to or even if Eric Bischoff wanted him to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milamber Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 TLC Highlights: Luchadors v Rhodes Scholars - Entertaining opener. Finish was good and the right team won. Cesaro v Truth - He's had much better matches than this but Cesaro is my favourite WWE wrestler right now. Kofi v Barrett - Decent match. Kofi's hitting his stride but I was hoping Barrett would win. Hell No/Ryback v The Shield - The Shield's theme music is forgettable but they're already way better than Nexus/Corre. Plenty of cool spots early on and some crazy bumps towards the end. Awesome TLC brawl and Match of the Year contender. Sheamus v Big Show - Good match especially hot on the heels of the last one. Super Chair! 3MB v Del Rio/Miz/Brawler - I read rumours of a Del Rio face turn but didn't expect it to happen this quick. He's got a lot of work to do to win over the fans. Ziggler v Cena - "Let's go Ziggler!" A few brutal spots. Cena mixed up his moveset to good effect. Crazy AJ strikes again! Her moves sucked (aside from the sexy 5-knuckle shuffle) but I didn't expect her to purposely screw Cena. 2nd best match of the PPV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 TLC was very very solid. It was a good PPV leading up to RR. They made some smart booking calls. Cant wait for Raw :-) Anyone think we'll see The Rock before RR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitywpi Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 So, the last time Big Show was in a ladder match, he pulls out a giant, heavy-duty ladder. Last night, he's in a Chairs match, and pulls out a heavy-duty giant chair. ... I can't wait to see the giant, heavy-duty table he pulls out for next years' Table match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rone Rivendale Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Did anyone else find it comical that Big Show had that giant chair? (besides Infinity) I mean, it was SO Looney Tunes that I almost expected to see him pull out an ANVIL next! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathers7 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Really loved how Cena sold AJ costing him the main event of a PPV, he really looked pissed. Ugh. PPV was a lot better than I expected, probably because I wasn't expecing anything but man the Shield match was great, really well booked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20LEgend Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 WWE goes bizarro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitywpi Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I'm still trying to figure out if Tensai's fall was intentional or not, given the category he was out there for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FINisher Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Really loved Flair's segment and Shield was just legit when they came out. You could easily sense and feel that people were afraid of what's going to happen to Ric. Really liking Ambroses' work, he seems to be in the moment 24/7. Wow Cena felt like heel to me (and to most of the crowd?), dude got seriously boo'd because of that interference. Dreamer \o/ Del Rio tagging Dreamer in was a great move in turning Del Rio face. Triple H, huge pop. Hinting Taker at Wrestlemania, nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathers7 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Laughed when Boogeyman came out and JBL was shouting "Run, Booker Run!!", memories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I liked TLC a lot. It was just a fun PPV to watch from top to bottom. I thought the Shield vs Hell No & Ryback match was phenomenal. Raw was a blast last night too. It's getting fun again. Not just mildly enjoyable, but fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitywpi Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 "Earmuffs, babe." Ziggler is so awesome, I have no words... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lo-Drew Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I love when one of my "fantasy bookings" come to life. A month ago, I remember posting on her that the whole debacle of the "Affair" storyline would end with Dolph and AJ getting together and look at that, they are now together. Which by the way I am so happy that they are. But I've seen a lot of mixed reactions to this on Twitter and other wrestling forums. Some(like me) are high on this. Some aren't. So I think this is an interesting debate here. Are you guys in support of this or not? What are your pros and cons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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