The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[bigtplaystew]

I love Cody's stache. That is all.

[milamber]

<p>Raw Highlights:</p><p> </p><p>

"Cody's moustache" chant. He reminds me of Rick Rude now <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p>

Sheamus vs Ziggler - PPV quality match</p><p>

Brad Maddox being a douche again and AJ's mega trantrum</p><p>

Kofi vs Cesaro - Kofi's hot right now and I could watch Cesaro wrestle anyone</p><p>

Miz TV - This segment is usually lame but his back and forth with Sandow & Rhodes was funny</p><p>

Ziggler announcing and a big brawl to end the show</p>

[Greylocke]

I think only a minor title will change hands. I'd like Ziggler to win but it makes more sense for Cena to be Show's next opponent. If Sheamus can't beat him who can other than Cena?

 

The guy who no-sold Cena's offense last PPV.

 

I see Ryback winning the Royal Rumble and end up facing Big Show for the WH Title at Mania. Or he could face Ziggler, after the latter cashes in on Sheamus after he wins the Chair Match.

 

WWE has the habit of using the WH Title to "trial-run" their new main eventers, so I won't be surprised if they do this to Ryback as well.

 

Besides, the spectacle of Cena taking out a seemingly-unstoppable giant has been done to death already.

 

Meanwhile, Punk drops the title to Rock, or get in a 3-way feud with Rock and Cena for the WWE title.

 

As for Ziggler/Cena, I see a great chance of AJ costing Cena the match somehow, just to keep up with their storyline trend of AJ being painted as a liability to every man she's involved with so far.

[lazorbeak]

Seriously, wasn't Show/Cena headlining PPV's six months ago? Does anybody need to see that again, even as a semi-main? And beyond that, isn't the idea of Cena "going to Smackdown" a little dated? Smackdown wrestlers show up on Raw every week, even when they're not the #1 star in the company.

 

That said, I'm sold on Ryback vs. Big Show at RR or Wrestlemania. The question is what do you give to Sheamus. And what, if anything, do they do with Lesnar? Please WWE, don't waste him on Triple H. Maybe have him murder Randy Orton to put Orton on the shelf for a few months.

[Nathers7]

It will be Triple H vs. Lesnar again unfortunately, I don't see any other options WWE will go with to be honest, what a letdown that would be though.

 

Maybe Lesnar will be involved in the Shield-Punk situation before then which would at least be something.

[sebsy]

If we get a rematch this year I'd much rather Rock vs Cena than HHH vs Lesnar. I know Lesnar vs HHH wasn't at Mania but still.

[ThriceP86]

I know this is really off-topic but IMO Aksana has got to be the hottest Diva on the roster. Just had to mention that after looking at some of the 25 days of Divas photos.

 

Anyways, I would second Rock vs. Cena II at Mania mainly because they already have history with their last match at Wrestlemania. I don't know if they'll do Triple H vs. Lesnar again especially since it would be weird to watch HHH wrestle with short hair.

 

Also, I just recently watched part of the Best of King of the Ring DVD through Netflix and I forgot how awesome Rock vs. Shamrock was the year Shamrock won. Triple H on commentary was gold too because they put the camera on Chyna at the spanish announcers table speaking fluent spanish. The King asks Trips what she said and he goes "Something about Taco Bell!" It's hilarious, I forgot how great he was on commentary especially with some of the one-liners he'd give during his time in DX.

 

I got sidetracked with that comment so I wanted to mention that Shamrock was one of my favorite wrestlers back during that time. It makes me wonder if he'd be a former WWE Champion if he stuck around longer.

[Stennick]

I liked Shamrock but no way he was sniffing close to the WWE Championship I mean maybe he gets some sort of WHC run if he hangs around long enough but even then its highly unlikely. Think about the roster of guys when Shamrock was on in '98.

 

Taker, Austin, Foley, HHH, The Rock, Kurt Angle (who was just as bad ass and a hundred times better on the mic), Jericho just too many guys that were more talented in the ring and more talented on the mic.

 

I think Shamrock could have done some cool stuff if he would have stuck around but no way was he in the top percentile of that group of guys.

 

In my opinion Kurt Angle was Kent Shamrock the new and improved version. Whats more bad ass than being a UFC winner? Being a pro wrestler who won an Olympic gold medalist in WRESTLING. Then on top of that his character was absolutely perfect until somewhere around 2005.

[lazorbeak]

I liked Shamrock but no way he was sniffing close to the WWE Championship I mean maybe he gets some sort of WHC run if he hangs around long enough but even then its highly unlikely. Think about the roster of guys when Shamrock was on in '98.

 

Taker, Austin, Foley, HHH, The Rock, Kurt Angle (who was just as bad ass and a hundred times better on the mic), Jericho just too many guys that were more talented in the ring and more talented on the mic.

 

I think Shamrock could have done some cool stuff if he would have stuck around but no way was he in the top percentile of that group of guys.

 

In my opinion Kurt Angle was Kent Shamrock the new and improved version. Whats more bad ass than being a UFC winner? Being a pro wrestler who won an Olympic gold medalist in WRESTLING. Then on top of that his character was absolutely perfect until somewhere around 2005.

 

I don't think Angle and Shamrock were contemporaries, except in No Mercy, where Shamrock was a hidden character, but yeah, I otherwise agree. He's in the mold of an Angle or a Benoit but without the mic skills of Angle or the all-around experience and skills of a Benoit.

 

The only way I could see him winning a title in '98-'99 is if Rock gets hurt or something, as he was the #2 regular wrestler in the corporation, but even then I think WWF would've turned Triple H into the corporate guy, since he was more over and better on the mic. Shamrock would really need a Shane McMahon giving him heat, a la Benoit in 2000.

 

I think the IC title was probably the right level for Ken Shamrock, wrestler, and I can totally see why he decided to take one more run at being in UFC rather than settling for a Val Venis role.

 

Edit: Also, I can't think about Shamrock from that era without hearing Jericho shout SCAM-rock. Thanks a lot, Chris Jericho.

[Stennick]

No I don't think they were ever co workers I just meant that once Kurt Angle came around anything that appealed to them about Shamrock (legit fighting history, great look, diverse ring style, quick learner) was found in Angle a year later with the added ability to be a heat seeker on the mic from the moment he first touched it.

 

I loved Shamrock and got pretty into his Owen stuff.

[bigtplaystew]

Back then the WWE Title generally was on a guy for much longer too. Shamrock maybe could have gotten a cheap title win (ala Kane) just to draw some heat, but the only two REAL champions during that time were Rock and Stone Cold, and later Triple H.

 

Sure Mick Foley and Undertaker and even Vinny Mac had brief title runs, but Stone Cold or The Rock were the real champs of that era. I think the last few years the title(s) jumped around a lot more often. Until CM Punk that is :-)

 

BEST IN THE WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORLD!

[Rone Rivendale]

Shamrock was the 1st ever NWA-TNA World champion, so obviously he had SOME main event potential. He was always a solid upper-mid card guy in WWE though. He didn't have to have prize winning promos, he was a psycho who hurt people.

[Stennick]

Shamrock was the 1st ever NWA-TNA World champion, so obviously he had SOME main event potential. He was always a solid upper-mid card guy in WWE though. He didn't have to have prize winning promos, he was a psycho who hurt people.

 

Jeff Jarrett has had more reigns with that title than anyone and he couldn't sniff the WWE championship and the only time WCW had him as their champion was their lowest drawing period in history.

 

A psycho that hurt people isn't a bad gimmick its just not going to draw over an extended period of time. Its a great build up for The Rock or even for Austin to face off in a program but why take the championship off of one of those two who could work, talk and clearly draw to put it on Shamrock?

 

I like Shamrock and I think he made a good IC champion and I think he could have had an extended main event program but that roster was one of the most stacked rosters in the history of pro wrestling as far as drawing power goes and Shamrock sadly couldn't crack the top ten when you got Austin, Rock, Taker, HHH, Jericho, Foley then maybe Shamrock but you still had very highly rated mid card acts at the time. Jarrett although not cut out for the Mid Card scene was just hitting his stride with his guitar smashing character, Big Show had just come into the company who even if he never panned out at the time he was given huge money and an extremely long term contract and at the time of his debut it was almost a given it was going to be Show and Austin at Wrestlemania 16. Even guys like Val Venis and Owen Hart were still around.

 

So yeah 98-99 WWE is just so stacked that a guy like Shamrock has a place it was just not going to be on the top of the card. We all have our favorites but from a business perspective having Austin and Rock on top of the card was drawing 6's and 7's every Monday there wasn't even a chance he was going to get anywhere near that title until MAYBE the Brand Split but again by the time the Brand Split happened you had Angle, Lesnar and all of the ECW/WCW guys like RVD, Guerrero etc

 

I am surprised that they never reached out to him to do a match with Lesnar or Angle or any body else after he left or at the very least reached out to him for a Hall of Fame spot I know he wasn't with the company that long but he was pretty successful given how little time he spent in the company...what about a year and a half or two years

[bigtplaystew]

Ken was a decent athlete and all, but yea too much talent in the Attitude Era.

[The Final Countdown]

Back then the WWE Title generally was on a guy for much longer too.

In the late 90's? The belt changed hands all the freaking time in that period, moreso than any other era I can remember in WWE/F.

[Teh_Showtime]

In the late 90's? The belt changed hands all the freaking time in that period, moreso than any other era I can remember in WWE/F.

 

evidenced by Foley having 3 title reigns for a month combined...

[Stennick]

In the late 90's? The belt changed hands all the freaking time in that period, moreso than any other era I can remember in WWE/F.

 

Even Austin never really held onto it for too long the money is always in the chase for the title when it came to Austin. He won the title in March and lost it by June of that year. So his first reign was about three months long. His second reign was about two months long. The Rock's first reign was six weeks long. His second reign was two days long. And his third was six weeks long. So yeah they played hot potato with the title but it was essentially Austin Taker Rock Foley for two years and then they mixed in some HHH the following year. Lots of short reigns but always involving the same three or four people.

[bigtplaystew]

I thought I made it clear that several people held the title for around a month or so (or even less like Foley and Vince). But it was always Stone Cold's belt.

 

In the late 90s Stone Cold was kind of the evolution of "the guy" like Hogan, Bret Hart, Shawn, etc. They chose to toss the title around when he was champ to do new things with stories, but Stone Cold was the real champ as far as the fans were concerned, whereas in the modern era many men all had shorter reigns to lead the fans to see them all as equally dangerous and powerful.

 

So I think Shamrock could have easily been just one of those dudes holding the belt to draw heat in the late 90s. But I disagree with the idea that he would have been a believable "legit" champion at any point in his pro wrestling career. At least in the States.

 

Whereas maybe if he was wrestling (at his peak) nowadays he very well could have been one of the guys that had a nice 4 month reign for a little while. Make sense?

[ThriceP86]

Like someone mentioned earlier, Shamrock could've just used a mouthpiece like Shane at the time and he could've still been around the upper midcard at least.

 

They could've even given him a day long title reign like they did with Kane. I'm glad this sparked a conversation about a "What if?" scenario especially looking at guys that could've been pushed huge but never happened.

 

bigt, I think I know what you mean since legitimate fighters have been used better nowadays with guys like Danielson, Punk, etc. Although, if given the right storyline with the right guy I believe Shamrock would've been a legit champ even against Rock since they had history.

 

Then again, who knows. Although, it's fun to imagine.

[Self]

I think I read in Bret Hart's book that before the Montreal Screwjob, Bret suggested he drop the title to Austin or Shamrock, as opposed to Shawn. So clearly there were people high on him, and there was that possibility afoot. Back then the roster wasn't quite so stacked.

[milamber]

Just watched the Main Event highlights. Gabriel & Kidd vs 3MB was a good match.

[TakerNGN74]

I think I read in Bret Hart's book that before the Montreal Screwjob, Bret suggested he drop the title to Austin or Shamrock, as opposed to Shawn. So clearly there were people high on him, and there was that possibility afoot. Back then the roster wasn't quite so stacked.

 

I remember reading in Bret's book as well that he suggested dropping the title to Shamrock as opposed to Shawn. To even further the theory if any of you guys have heard of the company Kayfabe Commentaries and watched their Timeline The History of WWE: 1997 with Jim Cornette they talk to him about the weeks leading up to the Screwjob and Cornette suggested that Bret drop it to Shamrock because Cornette thinks that he would have. Plus Cornette also goes onto say that Bret told him that he would lose the belt to anyone but Shawn.

[bigtplaystew]

Bret's said as much in both that Hitman Hart documentary and in the Bret vs Shawn DVD. In his own words, out of his own mouth. "Anyone but Shawn."

 

He really didn't want to drop that belt to Michaels. I always had mixed feelings about it as a major Hart fan. As the champion of his company, he should have respected the booking decisions and played ball. But I also feel he had the right to request a match with anyone else considering WWF did him dirty on the way out, they probably could have granted him that one last wish. If he dropped it to Shamrock or anyone else, Shawn could have just won it a few weeks later worst case scenario.

 

In the end, looking at it with adult eyes, I feel Bret was probably in the wrong. It's not up to him to make booking decisions. WWF didn't treat him right on his way out and all, but still, you're getting paid to wrestle not come up with your own version of the story.

[Slim Jim]

I remember reading in Bret's book as well that he suggested dropping the title to Shamrock as opposed to Shawn. To even further the theory if any of you guys have heard of the company Kayfabe Commentaries and watched their Timeline The History of WWE: 1997 with Jim Cornette they talk to him about the weeks leading up to the Screwjob and Cornette suggested that Bret drop it to Shamrock because Cornette thinks that he would have. Plus Cornette also goes onto say that Bret told him that he would lose the belt to anyone but Shawn.

 

Another thing Cornette has said about why Shamrock would have been a good choice, if Vince was set on Survivor Series being the place for the change, was that if all the "Anyone but Shawn" stuff was a load of smoke Bret has been blowing and he had tried to refuse to lose, Shamrock was legit enough to just drop Bret for real to win the match.

[bigtplaystew]

Another thing Cornette has said about why Shamrock would have been a good choice, if Vince was set on Survivor Series being the place for the change, was that if all the "Anyone but Shawn" stuff was a load of smoke Bret has been blowing and he had tried to refuse to lose, Shamrock was legit enough to just drop Bret for real to win the match.

 

LOL that sounds like the plot of "Ready to Rumble" a little bit haha. Yet, oddly believable...