The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[Slagaholic]

One thing The Death of WCW got right was the assertion that Jamie Kellner ultimately is what killed WCW. This is the man that also canceled Animaniacs and Freakazoid, he is made of evil.

 

Bischoff didn't do it, Russo didn't do it, the booking did not cause WCW to go out of business.

[PeterHilton]

One thing The Death of WCW got right was the assertion that Jamie Kellner ultimately is what killed WCW. This is the man that also canceled Animaniacs and Freakazoid, he is made of evil.

 

Bischoff didn't do it, Russo didn't do it, the booking did not cause WCW to go out of business.

 

I'm sorry but that is completely wrong imo. And the ending of that book is a total cop-out.

 

Bischoff did do it. Russo did do it. The booking did actually cause WCW to go out of business.

 

You can't blame a TV executive for making a sound business decision. It wouldn't have mattered who was in that position; the fact that WCW had lost more than half their viewing audience, was losing more than a million dollars a week, and had buy rates that were dipping below a 1 means that any TV executive in their right mind would've taken heat for NOT cancelling the show.

 

The people running WCW were responsible for giving TBS and AOL/TW all the reason in the world to kill the company.

 

If WCW was still turning a profit, still getting good ratings, and still doing good PPV numbers then no one at Turner would've been able to justify cancelling the show, bias towards wrestling or not.

[PeterHilton]

WCW reached the absolute high that it did thanks largely to EB, but the downfall was largely down to him and his arrogance as well as WWE's much improved product - the bullet that killed WCW though from a creative standpoint was the departure of EB and the hiring of Vince Russo as head booker as that's when ratings really began to tank and talent really got wasted. Really when you think about it the only good to come out of WCW was their rise to the top, but once they got there from the position they were in at around 1997-1999 they just pissed it all away through poor booking essentially, starting with the nWo mismanagement. Though I imagine it's difficult to book a product when your top stars have total creative control over their character, and some have crazy ever rising contracts which they didn't deserve.

 

Mostly agree with you. I just think the downward momentum was so bad that I'm not sure Russo did anything more than hasten the descent.

 

He was awful...but really even if the booking was great they were so upside down financially that good booking may only have extended the life of the company a year or so.

 

Don't know..it's an interesting what if.

[justtxyank]

The contracts are what led to it being cancelled. They were losing so much money because they had way overinvested into their workers. I think Greg Valentine was still earning decent money until like 2000. They had tons of workers under good money contracts despite not using half of them. If that weren't the case, even with their decreased ratings, they still would have been a good entity to have around.

[justtxyank]

Mostly agree with you. I just think the downward momentum was so bad that I'm not sure Russo did anything more than hasten the descent.

 

He was awful...but really even if the booking was great they were so upside down financially that good booking may only have extended the life of the company a year or so.

 

Don't know..it's an interesting what if.

 

I think people are unfair to Russo. By the time he got there, WCW wasn't just a sinking ship, it was the Titanic after it had already gone vertical, preparing to split in half. He was in a tough spot. They wanted him to radically change things to right the ship so he tried.

 

Another think people forget is that network executives really put the pressure on Bischoff to tame the product in like 1998 I think.

[Moe Hunter]

I can't say this at all. I actually fell asleep during Anderson's promo's Thankfully it wasn't a deep sleep and I got to see Angle waffle him into the most entertaining match I've ever seen Anderson put on. I didn't really want Anderson vs Terry match. But him being unconscious and getting squashed by the big lump of nothing kinda made up for it. If Terry had to defend the belt successfully, at least it happened in a way that made Anderson look like the chump that he is. Now if they can just find someone more interesting to put the Global belt on.

Having seen the show now... Cheers for letting me know to just skip past your posts now. Previously you'd been admitting "he's not for me", but this, really? You never saw his matches against Undertaker, Batista or HBK? Or somehow you hate him more than anyone ever hated Triple H in 2002/3 or Cena in 2005/6.

[CQI13]

Have to remember that even getting half of what WWE was getting, they were still the highest rated show on TNT (at least Nitro was). Kellner made a deal somewhere where HE personally benefitted. The video library alone was worth well over $3-5 million.

[TheOmniWarrior]

Im confused about something?

Why is TNA pushing abyss? Hes boring in the ring and on the mic.

And for some reason they have him main eventing one of impacts biggest nights?

[cappyboy]

Having seen the show now... Cheers for letting me know to just skip past your posts now.

 

You're welcome. When it comes to Anderson, I have to say I'm shocked it's taken until your post to get this. I must be an entire jukebox of broken records about him by now.

 

Previously you'd been admitting "he's not for me", but this, really?

 

Sorry, dude. I call em as I em. I'd much rather see Rob Terry squash an unconscious Anderson than see Anderson trying to be competitive. And that whole microphone from the sky thing bores the crap out of me. So yeah. Really.

 

You never saw his matches against Undertaker, Batista or HBK?

 

Probably not. I've been a very inconsistent viewer of WWE for the better part of a decade now. And even if I did, whatever entertainment I got out of the match would be due to the other guy. The guy's a talented mimic. I'll give him that. But it would probably taking someone throwing a chapter and verse quote back at me to remember a single interesting move I've ever seen Anderson perform. I could see guys just as exciting in the ring in old black and white reels from the 50's.

 

Or somehow you hate him more than anyone ever hated Triple H in 2002/3 or Cena in 2005/6.

 

Probably right in that same ballpark. I mean it's no secret how little love I have for Jeff Hardy either. But yet, I'd much rather watch Jeff than I would Anderson. At least Jeff's being Jeff and feels real. If Anderson could do that, maybe I could quit making posts like you're responding to. But so far the only place it seems like he's seen fit to be more than a mimic is Youtube where only diehards like us would even know about it.

[Slagaholic]

I'm sorry but that is completely wrong imo. And the ending of that book is a total cop-out.

 

Bischoff did do it. Russo did do it. The booking did actually cause WCW to go out of business.

No it didn't.

 

You can't blame a TV executive for making a sound business decision.

Cancelling one of your highest rated shows because of content is never a sound business decision.

 

It wouldn't have mattered who was in that position; the fact that WCW had lost more than half their viewing audience, was losing more than a million dollars a week, and had buy rates that were dipping below a 1 means that any TV executive in their right mind would've taken heat for NOT cancelling the show.

3 of the 4 things you noted had nothing to do with the decision to cancel WCW programming. If Bischoff had bought WCW he would have been taking on the losses. AOL/Time Warner would only be giving them air time. And at the time WCW was canceled as far as cable TV goes, they were whuppin ass. As far as WWF went, they sucked ass. But AOL/TW weren't looking at WWF's ratings, only WCW employees were.

 

The people running WCW were responsible for giving TBS and AOL/TW all the reason in the world to kill the company.

It was CONTENT that got WCW cancelled, to compete with WWF they had to get more "edgy" but Jamie Kellner and by proxy AOL/TW weren't going that way. WCW was not cancelled for it's ratings. It was cancelled for content.

 

If WCW was still turning a profit [...] then no one at Turner would've been able to justify cancelling the show, bias towards wrestling or not.

Why do you keep talking about WCW turning a profit having to do with the decision to cancel the show? Bischoff was ready to buy the company, Turner would have been off the hook for a vast majority of the losses.

 

If WCW was [...] still getting good ratings [...] then no one at Turner would've been able to justify cancelling the show, bias towards wrestling or not.

What do you think the average rating is for the primetime Monday Night timeslot on a cable station? Significantly lower than Nitro's ratings even in early 2001.

 

If WCW was [...] still doing good PPV numbers then no one at Turner would've been able to justify cancelling the show, bias towards wrestling or not.

What, pray tell do PPV buyrates have to do with a cable station's Monday Night Primetime slot? Nothing. AOL/TW wouldn't care about WCW's buyrates if they sold WCW.

 

 

All the reasons you gave do not apply to AOL/TW's decision to cancel WCW programming.

[PhenomenalPat]

According to several websites and her own twitter account, Awesome Kong and TNA have officially parted ways when Kong was granted her requested release.

 

It's certainly a loss to the division...but with Sarita, Wilde, Tara, Hamada and the the soon to return Nikki Roxx they still have some talent. Wish Melissa was still there tho.

[jesterx7769]

I'm not really holding out hope for the womens division right now anyway. And kinda how they let Bubba go, if Kong and Bubba's legal thing goes forward they dont want to be associated with Kong either

[Hyde Hill]

Lets just hope its a work because all in all she is an attraction. Guys if you want to discuss the reasons WCW went under start a new thread. In general if you read both Controversy Creates cash and The Death of WCW you get the best picture possible from both sides of the coin. As usual the "truth" is illusive and in the middle eg a combination of all factors.

[jesterx7769]

I'm assuming you guys saw Impact gets 3 hours later this month? SHould be interesting to see if they use that time for more Bischoff on tv or to show other talent that hasnt been getting time as of late

[brashleyholland]

I'm assuming you guys saw Impact gets 3 hours later this month? SHould be interesting to see if they use that time for more Bischoff on tv or to show other talent that hasnt been getting time as of late

 

I thought it was an hour of that TNA Epics show then a two hour Impact?

[Hyde Hill]

Yep Brashley is correct. Or are they getting more some day other then the 8th?

[PeterHilton]

From what I understand, it's an hour long episode of Epics centered around the X Division (like an episode of Forensic Files probably) followed by Impacy.

[Moe Hunter]

I can understand not getting Kennedy having not seen any of his high profile feuds. Speaking of that logic, man I hate Yoshi Tatsu. What's he supposed to be, some asian guy? His whole arm tassle thing is a joke, is he trying to be Ultimate Warrior?

 

[djthefunkchris]

I can understand not getting Kennedy having not seen any of his high profile feuds. Speaking of that logic, man I hate Yoshi Tatsu. What's he supposed to be, some asian guy? His whole arm tassle thing is a joke, is he trying to be Ultimate Warrior?

 

 

Honestly, you have to admit that Kennedy/Anderson does come off as "trying" to hard. His promo's feel forced and his ring work is average. I actually like him though.

 

I don't dislike Yoshi, but that music has to go.

[liontamer]

Anyone know if TNA is replaying the show on thurs again like when they had the other mon show?

 

torn between watching 24 and TNA on Mon.

 

Also confused why TNA is going on at the exactsame time as Raw. Thinking I'd overlap with 30-60 min unnopposed before/after Raw

[jesterx7769]

Pretty sure I read the rerun will be on Saturday.

[Moe Hunter]

Honestly, you have to admit that Kennedy/Anderson does come off as "trying" to hard. His promo's feel forced and his ring work is average. I actually like him though.

 

I don't dislike Yoshi, but that music has to go.

 

Absolutely he is, and I'd definitely say it's not working great for him in TNA so far. Plus, maybe it's just me not being American, but I don't care AT ALL about his whole "Soldier's Medal/Tags" storyline.

 

How about running a simple program where Anderson keeps mocking Angle for losing to AJ, and Angle plays up the whole "you talk big but I wrestle big" idea and fights him to shut his mouth?

 

But then, this is TNA where 90% of the show is taken up by incredibly boring people and stories. Seriously - Bischoff, Hogan, 3D, Nasty Boys, Hall, Waltman, Jarrett and Abyss... Completely unwatchable for me right now.

[BHK1978]

Absolutely he is, and I'd definitely say it's not working great for him in TNA so far. Plus, maybe it's just me not being American, but I don't care AT ALL about his whole "Soldier's Medal/Tags" storyline.

 

No it has nothing to do with you being from New Zealand. I am an American and I really could care less about that dumb storyline as well. To me that storyline would have worked well back in the past, pre-Attitude era, but now a days it comes across as hokey, at least to me it does.

[cappyboy]

No it has nothing to do with you being from New Zealand. I am an American and I really could care less about that dumb storyline as well. To me that storyline would have worked well back in the past, pre-Attitude era, but now a days it comes across as hokey, at least to me it does.

 

I can certainly understand that. I'm the segment of the audience they are trying to play to with that and I'm not even sure how I feel about it. On the one hand, I love how old-school the storyline is. But I question the timing. I can't deny that Angle is in theory the best man in today's world to be playing face in a story like this. But last year at this time he was deep in the throes of being don of the Main Event Mafia. Seems rather abrupt for him to be doing such an uber-face storyline right now. I try to roll with it while it's on my screen. But I don't know. Really feels like they should make Angle more conclusively face first.

[Hyde Hill]

well he has been acting like a face since after BFG, they just never really gave him a face moment so to speak. Just acting like a good guy and Wolfe being a "badder" guy if ya catch my drift. Still Anderson vs Angle and AJ vs Dinero/Abyss should be good programs.