The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[Bigpapa42]

My buddy was at the tryouts for this season. Didn't make, unfortunately. But he was saying that the guys they had in there were some real top-level talent. They had a ton of guys who didn't make the cut who are really skilled. Should make for a really interesting season.

[The Shape]

So, anyone think Okami has a chance of blanketing Anderson for 5 rounds?

[Fantabulous]

So, anyone think Okami has a chance of blanketing Anderson for 5 rounds?

 

I think if Okami can close the distance and get Silva on the ground, he has a good chance of outworking Silva and getting a decision win that way. Chael Sonnen gave people the blueprint to beat Silva and he would have done it himself if not for his susceptibility to submissions. Okami doesn't have such a weakness and if he is smart, he can beat Silva. Okami is also hard to finish and he's been in there with some real tough opponents who have never come close to putting him away. I hope that fighting in front of his countrymen will inspire Silva to fight and we don't get the lazy Silva who doesn't bother to try. That said, I'll take a boring Okami win over an exciting Silva win, any day of the week.

[bigtplaystew]

Okami's gotta keep working and advancing. Sonnen was content to stay up top and throw down punches from the guard. Those hurt, but they weren't damaging Silva significantly and he didn't really advance much to better his chances at finishing Silva.

 

Okami doesn't want this to go to a scorecard I assure you. Outside of the Sonnen fight (and Silva was injured) I've never seen anyone be able to hold him down and keep him there. And actually, Sonnen didn't either because he ended up getting triangled.

 

Okami needs to take him down and work towards something with some decent wrestling.

 

That said, I don't see this fight going well for Okami. And he definately won't be able to lay all over Silva. Anderson's superior to him in every way that I can see except for sheer strength.

[damonster]

Okami will probably get the first two round but coming the third he wil get a bit sloppy and get tko'd.

[ampulator]

I think if Okami can close the distance and get Silva on the ground, he has a good chance of outworking Silva and getting a decision win that way. Chael Sonnen gave people the blueprint to beat Silva and he would have done it himself if not for his susceptibility to submissions. Okami doesn't have such a weakness and if he is smart, he can beat Silva. Okami is also hard to finish and he's been in there with some real tough opponents who have never come close to putting him away. I hope that fighting in front of his countrymen will inspire Silva to fight and we don't get the lazy Silva who doesn't bother to try. That said, I'll take a boring Okami win over an exciting Silva win, any day of the week.

Normally, this would be 100% correct... except if Silva uses the "Machidan" strategy. It's the striker strategy that is the bane of wrestlers.

[Daffanka]

Okami will probably get the first two round but coming the third he wil get a bit sloppy and get tko'd.

 

Okami's really gunshy in the first two rounds and it's cost him (three round) fights.

 

I'm a Yushin Okami superfan and I think he can pull it off but he needs a major, major change in attitude. If he hunted takedowns like Chael did I think he'd be damn near unstoppable being a giant middleweight wrestler with great top control and he'd definitely give Anderson a fight. If he comes out tentative and gets caught in a barrage I don't think he can survive Anderson's firepower.

[ampulator]

Okami's really gunshy in the first two rounds and it's cost him (three round) fights.

 

I'm a Yushin Okami superfan and I think he can pull it off but he needs a major, major change in attitude. If he hunted takedowns like Chael did I think he'd be damn near unstoppable being a giant middleweight wrestler with great top control and he'd definitely give Anderson a fight. If he comes out tentative and gets caught in a barrage I don't think he can survive Anderson's firepower.

I don't know. Silva had a serious rib bruising before the Sonnen fight, and after it, it became a serious rib injury. Unless Silva comes in injured again, it's hard for me to believe this, especially if he's gunshy.

[Fantabulous]

If Okami does pull it off, guaranteed they return to Brazil in a stadium for the rematch. And if Okami loses the belt to Sonnen, then Sonnen/Silva II gets the stadium treatment.

[damonster]

If Okami does pull it off, guaranteed they return to Brazil in a stadium for the rematch. And if Okami loses the belt to Sonnen, then Sonnen/Silva II gets the stadium treatment.

 

if Sonnen passes Stann

[ampulator]

if Sonnen passes Stann

I would think he should. Stann isn't the kind of fighter that gives Sonnen trouble. BJJ grapplers, like Maia, give Sonnen trouble.

[Fantabulous]

if Sonnen passes Stann

 

I think he will. I think he'll play the wrestling game, stay safe, and outpoint Stann.

[jesterx7769]

This fight has potential to be 5 rounds of boring or Silva making another highlight reel.

 

Okami's striking looked decent in the Marquardt fight but I still say he gets KTFO by Silva. When opponents engage Silva bad things happen, and just about everyone has said in order for Okami to wins he needs to close the distance to get the take down so if he is working from the pocket I say Anderson's striking will be too much. However Okami could very well not aggressively shoot in and sit back leading to 5 rounds of circling.

 

On the other hand, will Okami be able to get it to the ground? If he does can he avoid getting submitted by Silva for 5 rounds? The men that have taken it to the ground haven't faired well in Sonnen, Hendo, and Lutter so I would hardly say Chael showed the blue print for success, as I don't call getting triangled successful. Silva didn't even look like he had been in a fight, nice pillow punching GnP Chael.

 

Silva > Okami

 

Chael will also outwrestle Stann, however I wouldn't be surprised if Stann caught him on the feet as his striking has been looking good.

[Daffanka]

I don't know. Silva had a serious rib bruising before the Sonnen fight, and after it, it became a serious rib injury. Unless Silva comes in injured again, it's hard for me to believe this, especially if he's gunshy.

 

Getting taken down against good wrestlers has been a running theme of his career, it's not really just confined to the Sonnen fight.

 

On the other hand, will Okami be able to get it to the ground? If he does can he avoid getting submitted by Silva for 5 rounds? The men that have taken it to the ground haven't faired well in Sonnen, Hendo, and Lutter so I would hardly say Chael showed the blue print for success, as I don't call getting triangled successful. Silva didn't even look like he had been in a fight, nice pillow punching GnP Chael.

 

It took Sonnen about 23 minutes to succumb to his terminal submission defense deficiency, Hendo did pretty well when he was actively chasing the takedown as opposed to trading punches, being kneed loopy and falling down. Lutter had mount on Anderson before gassing terribly in the second.

 

I feel pretty confident saying Okami will get Anderson to the ground at least once in the fight if it goes past the first couple of minutes. The question is if he can 1) avoid being tangled up in Anderson's guard and being stood up 2) do enough damage to outweigh any potential damage Anderson did on the feet and win the round 3) consistently get him down without getting hurt and finished, Anderson is an absolute master at dropping accurate, heavy shots on guys who are hurt.

[The Shape]

Could see it maybe being a bit like Stun Gun vs. Condit; early takedown, Anderson gets back up, Okami has no other ideas and gets KTFO.

 

Someone on twitter speculated that if Silva wins they'll offer him Hendo as the first ever Fox main event basically just to hype up a potential Sonnen rematch. Then some dude started saying Hendo was a bigger draw than Chael and I told him vs. Anderson he was very, very wrong =D

[ampulator]

Getting taken down against good wrestlers has been a running theme of his career, it's not really just confined to the Sonnen fight.

 

 

 

It took Sonnen about 23 minutes to succumb to his terminal submission defense deficiency, Hendo did pretty well when he was actively chasing the takedown as opposed to trading punches, being kneed loopy and falling down. Lutter had mount on Anderson before gassing terribly in the second.

 

I feel pretty confident saying Okami will get Anderson to the ground at least once in the fight if it goes past the first couple of minutes. The question is if he can 1) avoid being tangled up in Anderson's guard and being stood up 2) do enough damage to outweigh any potential damage Anderson did on the feet and win the round 3) consistently get him down without getting hurt and finished, Anderson is an absolute master at dropping accurate, heavy shots on guys who are hurt.

All Fair Points. Still, I'm not so sure Okami is the person to do it. I don't really have a high opinion of Japanese Wrestlers. They always seem to do well inside Japan, but they seem like "something" elsewhere.

 

Could see it maybe being a bit like Stun Gun vs. Condit; early takedown, Anderson gets back up, Okami has no other ideas and gets KTFO.

 

Someone on twitter speculated that if Silva wins they'll offer him Hendo as the first ever Fox main event basically just to hype up a potential Sonnen rematch. Then some dude started saying Hendo was a bigger draw than Chael and I told him vs. Anderson he was very, very wrong =D

 

I'd say they are close in terms of name recgonition at this point. Hendo is rather quiet and unabrasive on camera, while Sonnen is abrasive and talkative on camera. I'm not exactly sure Hendo is a good choice, either, because Silva tapped Hendo out. Sonnen vs. Silva seems more like a better main event to me.

[damonster]

I think he will. I think he'll play the wrestling game, stay safe, and outpoint Stann.

 

Stann's one of the few people Sonnen has said is really good & Sonnen has even said he's a fan of Stann, so I don't know.

 

Also I think the reason why many people want Silva vs. Sonnen II, is because Silva was looking lazy and unbeatable & Sonnen said he will destroy Silva (which many didn't believe), he was able to basicly destroy silva and make him look unbeatable so many people want to see if he can do it the second time around. Anyways Sonnen has been training his BJJ and Cesar Gracie with Shields and the Diaz bros.

[bigtplaystew]

I enjoy Sonnen's antics being a pro wrestling fan and I respect Stann as much as anyone. So as a fan, that's a win/win situation no matter who comes out th victor in that fight. I hope Stann though. Give Silva a fresh match up.

 

I just want both Silva and GSP to keep winning so we can see them fight.

[KingJoel]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpcxogPyPA1qghylxo1_400.gif

 

If anyone can tell me the name of the two fighters involved in this, I will love you forever.

[ampulator]

Stann's one of the few people Sonnen has said is really good & Sonnen has even said he's a fan of Stann, so I don't know.

 

Also I think the reason why many people want Silva vs. Sonnen II, is because Silva was looking lazy and unbeatable & Sonnen said he will destroy Silva (which many didn't believe), he was able to basicly destroy silva and make him look unbeatable so many people want to see if he can do it the second time around. Anyways Sonnen has been training his BJJ and Cesar Gracie with Shields and the Diaz bros.

And how do you know Sonnen is training his BJJ seriously? I'm not saying he's, because he should be. But I think the problem is "mindset" not "skillset". He thinks like a "wrestler", and does not care for the bottom ground game. As long as he doesn't respect the bottom game, he's going to run into trouble eventually, again, with better grapplers, if he ever faces them (Maia, Souza, Palhares).

[Remianen]

Now that the heat has died down some, I can perhaps add some info to the scuttlebutt.

 

First, UFC didn't even allow Spike to bid once Fox and NBC got involved. The reasoning was/is, Dana wanted a much larger platform than anything Viacom could possibly offer (UFC on MTV? I think not!). Plus, the numbers that were being tossed around were such that they would've had to put UFC on their biggest channels just to justify the expenditure/offer.

 

It all came down to NBC and Fox and Fox was willing to offer more (in years and showcase status) than NBC (who only seemed to want UFC as a marquee launch property for the former VERSUS). Fox is in it for the long haul, seems like. They're going to use UFC to sell the FUNK out of beer and "man-oriented" products (think: Chrysler 300-esque cars, trucks, AXE, etc). They're planning to cross promote UFC events on their NFL broadcasts (which was a big selling point for Dana, I'd imagine. NBC wouldn't codify that condition).

 

All in all, the folks at Spike are gutted. They put a lot of work and effort into building the UFC brand, even building their programming around it. But that's business and there are no hard feelings. I suggested they perhaps set up a TNA-esque deal with the UFL. The league has names (former coaches, mainly) and if it survives long enough, it could wind up as a defacto minor league system for the NFL (giving those undrafted/unsigned players a place to hone their skills before being signed to the big league, perhaps as an injury replacement). Of course, it would help if the commissioner could extricate himself from the controversy at The U.

[brashleyholland]

And how do you know Sonnen is training his BJJ seriously? I'm not saying he's, because he should be. But I think the problem is "mindset" not "skillset". He thinks like a "wrestler", and does not care for the bottom ground game. As long as he doesn't respect the bottom game, he's going to run into trouble eventually, again, with better grapplers, if he ever faces them (Maia, Souza, Palhares).

 

Sonnen is absolutely taking his BJJ seriously, and always has done. He's one of the better 'students' of MMA out there. Just so happens he sucks at BJJ. The 'feeding carrots to a bus' thing is all fun and games, he's one of the most educated, honest and respectful people I've ever had the pleasure of talking to.

 

'Chael Sonnen' on the other hand, is a world clash douche bag who you should all pay lots of money to see get his ass kicked! Roll up, roll up!

[ampulator]

Now that the heat has died down some, I can perhaps add some info to the scuttlebutt.

 

First, UFC didn't even allow Spike to bid once Fox and NBC got involved. The reasoning was/is, Dana wanted a much larger platform than anything Viacom could possibly offer (UFC on MTV? I think not!). Plus, the numbers that were being tossed around were such that they would've had to put UFC on their biggest channels just to justify the expenditure/offer.

 

It all came down to NBC and Fox and Fox was willing to offer more (in years and showcase status) than NBC (who only seemed to want UFC as a marquee launch property for the former VERSUS). Fox is in it for the long haul, seems like. They're going to use UFC to sell the FUNK out of beer and "man-oriented" products (think: Chrysler 300-esque cars, trucks, AXE, etc). They're planning to cross promote UFC events on their NFL broadcasts (which was a big selling point for Dana, I'd imagine. NBC wouldn't codify that condition).

 

All in all, the folks at Spike are gutted. They put a lot of work and effort into building the UFC brand, even building their programming around it. But that's business and there are no hard feelings. I suggested they perhaps set up a TNA-esque deal with the UFL. The league has names (former coaches, mainly) and if it survives long enough, it could wind up as a defacto minor league system for the NFL (giving those undrafted/unsigned players a place to hone their skills before being signed to the big league, perhaps as an injury replacement). Of course, it would help if the commissioner could extricate himself from the controversy at The U.

I think what you say, might confirm what Dana White implied, during an interview with Ariel Helwani, that offers were "upgraded", when there were rumors, that they were considering to buy a network (G4TV?), for themselves.

 

Sonnen is absolutely taking his BJJ seriously, and always has done. He's one of the better 'students' of MMA out there. Just so happens he sucks at BJJ. The 'feeding carrots to a bus' thing is all fun and games, he's one of the most educated, honest and respectful people I've ever had the pleasure of talking to.

 

'Chael Sonnen' on the other hand, is a world clash douche bag who you should all pay lots of money to see get his ass kicked! Roll up, roll up!

 

Really? I'll take your word for it. It's hard for me to believe someone so good at wrestling would suck at BJJ, if they have been doing it for a while.

[VTial]

If Spike can nail Bellator though, I think they have the better made for TV MMA deal. Far better than their pro-wrestling equivalent in TNA. UFC has always been a show built on prestige and lately they haven't even narrowed those down where free/low prestige fights are more exciting and marquee fights being more boring. Spike really should be celebrating instead. They have become the go to network for budding MMA promotions where even bigger networks have failed while pushing down StrikeForce/EliteXC.

 

As far as Sonnen, I think one thing everyone needs to keep in mind is that Team Quest is not an elite camp. It's a great camp but Sonnen and Okami are literally what made them relevant again. There was even an entire UFC event (can't remember which one) where almost every fight involved a Team Quest fighter and most of the fighters lost horribly to low level UFC fighters.

 

Sonnen has also mentioned in an interview that he has mental problems with submissions and if you look at his fights, he has mental lapses in BJJ defense. It's not like you can put the first submission hold on him and he taps. Even among Maia's list of UFC fights, he had to pull the most unorthodox submission attempt on Sonnen and this was something he had never done before and after that fight and not only does Sonnen have a history of tapping to one specific BJJ move, he Fitched out a guillotine from Nate Marquardt (something that only Jon Fitch has done on a high level until Sonnen and Sonnen arguably was being submitted by the stronger fighter). Those are not symptoms of a fighter with bad BJJ defense.

[bigtplaystew]

Yea dude Sonnen's a world class wrestler, which means that part of his ground game is solid, even against some great BJJ practitioners. Because he's a top level athlete.

 

But he has gotten caught in submissions before probably because his BJJ isn't INCREDIBLE. He's still one of the top fighters at his weight class regardless.

 

I'm a fan of his but I'd like to see Stann beat him and solidfy himself up there.