The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[Fantabulous]

That's all well and good, but sports can't be run this way. It undermines the integrity of the sport itself. Otherwise Notre Dame would play for the national championship every week and the Yankees would be in the Series every year regardless of their accomplishments. Simply because it makes the most money.

 

I don't think that a WWE argument that it's what the fans want or that it's what makes the most money, or it's what GSP wanted holds much water at all. Hendricks had been told numerous times that he would be the #1 contender and he should be. In a fair sport none of that other stuff matters.

 

So yes, they can do it, but the sport itself suffers in the chase for the almighty dollar. This isn't the first time that this kind of thing happens. The UFC backs away from guys that they don't know what to do with. It's why Fitch (pre-Hendricks) never got another shot at GSP or why Rashad isn't even mentioned anymore despite being one of the top 205ers around. It's part of the reason that Rampage walked, and it clearly shows that the UFC is in total control of it. Sometimes that good, sometimes it's bad. In this situation it's bad.

 

The UFC is a business. And a business operates by giving the customer what they want. Otherwise, they don't stay in business long. You want MMA run as a sport, watch Bellator, and even they are making the transition to a business approach by now saying that a title fight can be rematched without the need for someone to go through a tournament.

 

I's not a 'WWE argument'; it's a business argument. You don't like MMA being run as business, then watch one of the few MMA groups than runs things like a sport. But you'd better be quick because they don't seem to last long. Hmm; I wonder why that is?

 

Fitch never got another shot at GSP for two reasons; GSP thoroughly dominated him the first time and nobody outside of the hardcores cares about Fitch which, put together, makes a GSP/Fitch rematch very hard to sell. As a business, unless you have no choice, you don't put together a main event that is going to be hard to sell. That would be bad business. Rashad is in a similar position; people care about him but he was so totally dominated by Jones that a rematch would be a hard fight to sell. Unless Rashad walks through some top guys without breaking a sweat, is anyone really going to think that a rematch with Jones would go any differently? If Rashad beats some top guys, sure, give him a rematch. But otherwise, unless Rashad actually did walk through some top guys, it would be a bad business move to make the rematch because it's going to be a tough sell.

 

Too bad for Rampage. He's on a big contract but he lacks the skill to be put in a position to justify that contract. He isn't beating Jones, ever, and he would struggle to look competitive against Davis. Gustafsson would embarrass him. He got an undeserved win against Machida and would probably lose that rematch. What else is there? A rematch with Shogun? Maybe. But other than that, what else, that is marketable or worthwhile, can you do with the guy? Nothing. So feed him to Glover and send him on his way.

 

You don't have to like UFC being run as a business but at least try and understand it.

[bigtplaystew]

Nothing on Hendricks getting totally shafted by the UFC in favor of Nick Diaz? UFC shows it's doing nothing more than chasing dollar signs rather than give the shot to the guy who has earned it.

 

It's dollar signs at work

 

Good thing we had Fantabulous write a novel telling us UFC is in the business to make money. NO ONE made that point before or anything...

 

We all understand WHY the decision was made, sir. We're simply being critical of it. Something, quite frankly, you've made your bones doing on this board.

[PilotMan]

The UFC is a business. And a business operates by giving the customer what they want. Otherwise, they don't stay in business long. You want MMA run as a sport, watch Bellator, and even they are making the transition to a business approach by now saying that a title fight can be rematched without the need for someone to go through a tournament.

 

I's not a 'WWE argument'; it's a business argument. You don't like MMA being run as business, then watch one of the few MMA groups than runs things like a sport. But you'd better be quick because they don't seem to last long. Hmm; I wonder why that is?

 

Fitch never got another shot at GSP for two reasons; GSP thoroughly dominated him the first time and nobody outside of the hardcores cares about Fitch which, put together, makes a GSP/Fitch rematch very hard to sell. As a business, unless you have no choice, you don't put together a main event that is going to be hard to sell. That would be bad business. Rashad is in a similar position; people care about him but he was so totally dominated by Jones that a rematch would be a hard fight to sell. Unless Rashad walks through some top guys without breaking a sweat, is anyone really going to think that a rematch with Jones would go any differently? If Rashad beats some top guys, sure, give him a rematch. But otherwise, unless Rashad actually did walk through some top guys, it would be a bad business move to make the rematch because it's going to be a tough sell.

 

Too bad for Rampage. He's on a big contract but he lacks the skill to be put in a position to justify that contract. He isn't beating Jones, ever, and he would struggle to look competitive against Davis. Gustafsson would embarrass him. He got an undeserved win against Machida and would probably lose that rematch. What else is there? A rematch with Shogun? Maybe. But other than that, what else, that is marketable or worthwhile, can you do with the guy? Nothing. So feed him to Glover and send him on his way.

 

You don't have to like UFC being run as a business but at least try and understand it.

 

Wow, gotta put someone down in order to make your point? And to think I left middle school so many years ago.

 

I didn't ask why those guys didn't get the chance. I pointed out that they are or were top guys who aren't in the mix at the moment because of the business of the UFC. I understand that plenty. You want to debate the ins and outs of certain match ups fine, but you don't understand, MMA is a sport. Just because there is no BCS of MMA to determine the title shot or the national attention or money that the other major sports bring in doesn't mean that it shouldn't have the same expectation. Simply put, Hendricks and the entire WW division have been screwed up since GSP was injured. Condit waiting was his right, but throwing Diaz back in the mix right away was a mistake. Personally, I hope Diaz wins, that'll mean a rematch right away (the public demands!), and Hendricks will have to wait until 2014 and it'll just make this discussion all the more relevant or someone will beat him and we'll never hear from him again. In the end, it won't matter, because no fighter is bigger than the UFC, and we'll all keep watching because we love the sport/business/product, whatever you want to call it.

 

BTW, I do watch Bellator and love the product. I would have loved to see a Chandler/Alvarez rematch right away. That was an incredible fight, and it would have been accepted as the right thing to do that time as well.

[bigtplaystew]

I wonder if they went with Rory/Diaz, Ellenberger/Condit, and GSP/Hendricks if that card does a whole hell of a lot worse than the 158 card now.

 

Oh well injuries happen and things can change. We'll see.

[bigtplaystew]

http://www.mmaweekly.com/dana-white-the-ufc-didnt-pass-over-johny-hendricks-gsp-asked-for-diaz

 

Whelp, according to Dana, I'm wrong. You're wrong. Even the almighty Fantabulous is wrong.

 

It's not about money at all... GSP simply wanted Diaz...

 

:-)

 

The article is intereting and gives valid points to calm the keyboard warriors of the world. He did, however, make a clear point to say that a Hendricks victory means he will get the shot next.

[Fantabulous]

http://www.mmaweekly.com/dana-white-the-ufc-didnt-pass-over-johny-hendricks-gsp-asked-for-diaz

 

Whelp, according to Dana, I'm wrong. You're wrong. Even the almighty Fantabulous is wrong.

 

It's not about money at all... GSP simply wanted Diaz...

 

:-)

 

 

I've pointed out that GSP asked for Diaz. But well done in going back to your flame baiting and other nonsense, barely a couple of weeks after Adam asked us to stop it, and especially after I've been keeping it civil with reasoned and thought out posts, both here and in the WWE thread.

[bigtplaystew]

I'm clearly not flame baiting you, sir. I was attempting a bit of good natured humor. I sincerely apologize (I mean that I'm not being sarcastic) if it was unfounded and I assure it won't happen again. Re-reading the post, I can see how you saw that as an immature dig and I promise I'll work to resolve that issue int he future.

 

I was playing around with the idea that you, I, and others posting on the issue all speculated it was about business. Apparently, it wasn't about that at all. It was as simple as GSP just wanting to fight Diaz.

 

Kinda badass in a way.

[Fantabulous]

Back on topic now, but the big question about the GSP/Diaz fight is will Diaz screw this one up too? I'd be more confident in him seeing this through if not for his pattern of never seeming to learn his lesson.

[boofhead71]

<p>TUF 17, Dana's talking it up</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div> Dana White has sparked interest in series 17 of The Ultimate Fighter, revealing one contestant sends every opponent to hospital.<p> </p><p> White could be accused of trying to raise interest in TUF following a dire 16th season, but the UFC president insists he will be proved to be telling the truth when the series airs.</p><p> </p><p> "I know you guys are going to call bulls**t on me and all that," White said. "[but] This next season is so awesome and so badass. We have a guy on this season of The Ultimate Fighter, every fight he's in, someone goes to the hospital.</p><p> </p><p> "The whole house is terrified of this guy. F***ing terrified. Everybody.</p><p> </p><p> "I picked this fight, and this guy is lined up with the guy I'm telling you about, and the guy has a nervous breakdown in the house over the weekend. Has a f***ing nervous breakdown. Freaks out and has a nervous breakdown.</p><p> </p><p> "This guy scared the living s**t out of everyone. It's awesome."</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> <a href="http://www.espn.co.uk/ufc/sport/story/184743.html" rel="external nofollow">http://www.espn.co.uk/ufc/sport/story/184743.html</a></p><p> </p><p> I might have to watch some of this one <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Blackman]

What's the point, Dana? 12-year old should already be in bed when the show airs.

[brashleyholland]

<p>I think it's safe to say that my mate Luke is on the show now, as he was briefly glimpsed in the most recent promo vid. </p><p> </p><p>

Hoping he does well, he's tailor made for the UFC.</p>

[Daffanka]

In fairness GSP probably wants Diaz because he's a hundred times easier than Hendricks for him to beat.

[brashleyholland]

Out of interest - has anyone here heard about Safe MMA? If so, thoughts? If not, give it a Google and share your thoughts?

 

Thanks, and Happy Holidays! Xxx

[Fantabulous]

Out of interest - has anyone here heard about Safe MMA? If so, thoughts? If not, give it a Google and share your thoughts?

 

Thanks, and Happy Holidays! Xxx

 

I like the idea of an attempt to make MMA safer in the UK and I hope it succeeds, but I'm skeptical of competing groups working together for the overall good of the sport. Given the natural rivalries between competing companies, I can 't help but half-expect one of them to, at some point, break away and go renegade, which would undo all the hard work that has gone into this.

 

And what happens with promotions or fighters who don't go along with what is really a good idea? Are the groups aligned with Safe MMA going to unite and work against such fighters and groups in an attempt to get everyone working together? Or will they turn a blind eye if they think it suits their interests? Again, I hope this succeeds but I'll remain skeptical for now.

 

As for GSP/Hendricks, Hendricks might be more dangerous than Diaz because of his crazy overhand left, but other than that, I don't see where he gives GSP much of a problem.

[Zoloftjunkie]

Just wanna wish all my fellow fight fans a safe and Merry Christmas. Hope you all have good food to eat and family to be with .

[brashleyholland]

I like the idea of an attempt to make MMA safer in the UK and I hope it succeeds, but I'm skeptical of competing groups working together for the overall good of the sport. Given the natural rivalries between competing companies, I can 't help but half-expect one of them to, at some point, break away and go renegade, which would undo all the hard work that has gone into this.

 

Just to clear this up - Cage Warriors, BAMMA and UCMMA won't be working as part of Safe MMA now that it's been set up. Safe MMA will be run by the guys at The Centre of Human Performance at 76 Harley Street. They'll have some admin help from a couple of other MMA industry people, and the likes of Marc Goddard and Rosi Sexton will remain on the 'board'.

 

The 'big three' UK promotions were heavily involved in the development of Safe MMA as all involved felt it was essential that CW, UCMMA and BAMMA were on the same page and able to back the project fully. If the three UKMMA powerhouses weren't on board, this would have been dead in the water.

 

The whole point of Safe is that it's independent of any one promotion, or group of promotions. With that said, I'm sure all three (and others in UK MMA) will have a say in any future evolution of Safe MMA.

 

And what happens with promotions or fighters who don't go along with what is really a good idea? Are the groups aligned with Safe MMA going to unite and work against such fighters and groups in an attempt to get everyone working together? Or will they turn a blind eye if they think it suits their interests? Again, I hope this succeeds but I'll remain skeptical for now.

 

Everyone is being encouraged to join, but nobody is getting blacklisted for not doing so. The idea is that if you're not Safe registered, you can't fight on a Safe show. Similarly, a Safe registered fighter should not fight on a non-Safe show.

 

Obviously, and especially in the first year or so, there will be situations where Safe guys have to fight on non-Safe shows, and situations where Safe shows have a non-Safe fighter compete (for example, if they have ammy fights, or a kickboxing bout on the same cards as MMA). In these cases, Safe MMA has provided a detailed set of procedures.

 

For example - If I (as a Safe registered fighter) were to fight on a non-Safe show (either a non-Safe registered show in the UK or an overseas show where there is no blood testing) I would need to provide a set of bloods for my opponent, and a simple medical form (filled in by the on-site medic) before I was 'green-lighted' again on the Safe database following the fight. If I can't do that for whatever reason, I would need to get myself fully blood-tested and medically assessed at my own expense in order to be re-green-lit.

 

In the case of a promotion having a non-Safe fighter on, eg ammy, non-MMA, or a same day replacement without bloods (although this is massively discouraged), there is a procedure for disinfecting the cage after the bout.

 

As for GSP/Hendricks, Hendricks might be more dangerous than Diaz because of his crazy overhand left, but other than that, I don't see where he gives GSP much of a problem.

 

This is a tough one for me to be objective on, as I am deeply in love with Johnny Hendricks and his beard. I do think he beats today's slightly more battle worn GSP. With that said, it's difficult to assess how good a guy like 'Big Rig' is until he seriously beats up a top level guy. Nobody is calling his KO's of Kampman and Fitch 'lucky punches', but until you've seen what he can do against a fighter who can take or avoid that shot, it's hard to gauge. With that said, if he bangs out Ellenberger in the first round, we may just be dealing with a welterweight Chuck Liddell :-p

[Fantabulous]

 

This is a tough one for me to be objective on, as I am deeply in love with Johnny Hendricks and his beard. I do think he beats today's slightly more battle worn GSP. With that said, it's difficult to assess how good a guy like 'Big Rig' is until he seriously beats up a top level guy. Nobody is calling his KO's of Kampman and Fitch 'lucky punches', but until you've seen what he can do against a fighter who can take or avoid that shot, it's hard to gauge. With that said, if he bangs out Ellenberger in the first round, we may just be dealing with a welterweight Chuck Liddell :-p

It's almost ironic that what makes Hendricks so dangerous is also what makes it hard to know just how good he really is. We might find out against Ellenberger but if he smokes Ellenberger with that overhand left, we'll have to wait for for the GSP fight to get a gauge on how good Hendricks is, because if anybody is going to take Hendricks into deep waters, it'll be GSP. Of course, if he cracks GSP with that rocket punch than we'll still be waiting and we could have ourselves a champion that might be really great or could just have one really great weapon.

[bigtplaystew]

Nobody is calling his KO's of Kampman and Fitch 'lucky punches', but until you've seen what he can do against a fighter who can take or avoid that shot, it's hard to gauge. With that said, if he bangs out Ellenberger in the first round, we may just be dealing with a welterweight Chuck Liddell :-p

 

Hendricks is on one hell of a run with that punch :-)

 

I don't see Ellenberger really presenting him with some unforeseen challenge that Kampmann and Fitch have. Johnny def reminds me of Chuck in the sense that he CAN wrestle and seems to be able to use his skill set to keep guys where he wants them and put them down.

 

As far as the bolded point, I direct you to the Koscheck fight. Kos is a tough dude and Johnny still found a way to beat him, albeit via close victory. I don't think Jake really has anything special that his last three opponents don't have. Johnny's more than just a one punch invariable. He's got the wrestling credentials and we've seen him not only take punishment, but also alter his gameplan a bit when the bomb didn't land right. His past opponents aren't "GSP good", but like, no one is really at that weight. At least not yet.

 

I think he's the rightful number 2 170 lbs fighter in the world right now and his recent resume is probably one of the best in the sport at the moment. Kos, Fitch, Kampmann: that is one hell of a 3 fight run. Probably the best out there right now for someone who isn't holding a belt. I hope he runs through Jake and there will be no question that Johnny is the best fighter int he world to not get a title shot.

 

Can't wait :-)

[Daffanka]

If Pierce can mitigate the Big Left Hand for 15 minutes by boxing dirty then GSP can definitely do it with the million ways he can render his opponent an impotent baby, it's just that Hendricks has an actual, tangible way to win the fight and Diaz doesn't.

[brashleyholland]

New Years Eve Weekend MMA Extravaganza!

 

So this weekend MMA fans are in for a bit of a treat!

 

First off we have Saturday's UFC card, with Dos Santos/Velasquez 2 and a really good set of undercard fights.

 

Then, on New Year's Eve we have GLORY 4/Dream's NYE card. Some decent MMA and a ridiculous 16 man, one-night kickboxing tourney.

 

If that's not enough, straight afterwards you've got Cage Warriors' NYE card, streaming live and free on Facebook (prelims) then MMAJunkie (main card). Featherweight champ Conor McGregor (hotly tipped for UFC) moves up to fight 21-3 Ivan Buchinger for the vacant lightweight title. Also Chris Fields defends his middleweight title against the notorious Jesse 'JT$' Taylor. Ais Daley, Jack Mason and the clearly UFC-bound James Brum are also on the card. And it's FREE!!

 

I sat down with Jesse last night...

 

 

Funny story - When we finished this interview, Jesse and left and went downstairs before us. When we followed about five minutes later, we stepped out of the lift into the hallway on our floor, and walked straight in JT$ doing a load of crazy karate moves on his own.

 

We all sort of looked at each other in an awkward silence, then he said "Well that was weird" and walked off. Wish we'd had the camera on! :-p

[Fantabulous]

Watching Cage Warriors at the moment. The women's fight is heading into the third round and it's been a really good fight so far.

[Blackman]

Didn't really like the latest UFC PPV. I did get most predictions right. Missed all the other stuff though.

 

Invicta has its 4th event, but they're already switching to PPV (8$, which doesn't seem too much to me), which is a pity as I only pay through paypal. I don't have a credit card and I don't want to bother my mom again for it, so yeah. Hopefully they'll turn up somewhere on the internet. If it doesn't it's not that bad given the card is mediocre compared to the other events. The co-main is pretty awesome but it stops there.

[Blackman]

Well, turns out they'll show it for free after all. Too bad I actually did pay for it in the end. Hopefully it'll get refunded.

 

So far I've seen at least one great fight. All of them have been above average though.

[damonster]

Well, turns out they'll show it for free after all. Too bad I actually did pay for it in the end. Hopefully it'll get refunded.

 

So far I've seen at least one great fight. All of them have been above average though.

 

they said everyone will get a refund

[Blackman]

<p>Indeed. Meh, I'll let them keep it. Many people claimed the same, but I don't know whether they would pull through in the end. That's why they made the refund optional. They'll probably still retain a couple of 1000 from the event (which is very little obv). It was actually quite entertaining. It did f/ck up my biorythm, as it was scheduled at the worst time possible for Europeans. It lasted 'till 18h. Great fun, but it'll be the first and last time I'll watch it live. Problem is you don't get to enjoy the replays without having to go to the site and get the results spoiled as soon as you get there. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

Some very good fights. Co-main was stellar, and some prelims were very nice to watch too. Plus it had Bas Rutten fool around with commentary, the occasional singing etc. I had fun watching, which is essentially what entertainment is all about.</p>