Official MLB Discussion Thread

[SHaynes23]

Man do I love being from St. Louis come October. That was a great ending to a game, something we have been getting spoiled with the last couple of years. Funny note was that my girlfriend had up the ESPN app on her Kindle and was looking at the Twitter feed of the game and the Nats official page put up that they were going on to face the Giants with a 7-5 victory when there was 2 outs in the inning. Clearly they didn't know the Cardinals possess voodoo powers

[BHK1978]

I have to say I did not see the Giants coming, this shocked me. I thought they were dead once they lost Brian Wilson, Tim Lincecum was playing like utter crap, and the whole Melky deal.

 

I would love to see them sweep the Tigers just because the Tiger swept the Yankees and the Tiger fans were chanting "Sweep", if the Giants were to win tonight that would be karma for those fans that were chanting sweep at the Yankees. Not that I believe in karma but I still would love to see it.

[BHK1978]

Should Bonds, Clemens, and Sosa make it into the Hall of Fame?

 

I say no to Sosa right off the bat because his stats where not that great before he started to juice.

 

On the other hand I would actually be more lenient towards both Bonds and Clemens because they were already onto the path towards the Hall of Fame before they started to juice.

 

Granted I do not know for certain when any of them stated to take steroids, I am just going by what they had already done prior to when the steroid era started.

[BHK1978]

When voting for the All-Star game one should not tell MLB.com who their favorite team is or you will be getting emails about said favorite team everyday.

 

I don't think a day has gone by in the last seven years where I have not gotten an email about the Yankees.

[Remianen]

Should Bonds, Clemens, and Sosa make it into the Hall of Fame?

 

I say no to Sosa right off the bat because his stats where not that great before he started to juice.

 

On the other hand I would actually be more lenient towards both Bonds and Clemens because they were already onto the path towards the Hall of Fame before they started to juice.

 

Granted I do not know for certain when any of them stated to take steroids, I am just going by what they had already done prior to when the steroid era started.

 

I don't like double standards.

 

I believe if you're going to ban Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, etc from the Hall, then you should remove all those people already in who used performance enhancing drugs of their eras. According to several documentaries based on doping research, the use of steroids exploded after Dr. John Ziegler's experiments focused them (along with developing isometrics to enhance their effectiveness) for the Olympic weightlifting team. Throughout the 60s, steroids were widely used in ALL sports. That's not even getting into horse tranquilizers (the HGH of those days).

 

How does the old saying go? Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to do what?

 

This is like receivers in the Pro Football Hall of Fame who amassed their stats largely with the use of Stickum (hi Fred!). How much more ridiculous would stats be nowadays if receivers (and defensive backs) could run around with GLUE on their hands?

 

Competitive balance is a fallacy since there is always something that gives one side an advantage. Often it's money (small market vs large market but whether it was the use of "colored" players in the 40s and 50s or roids or glue or animal medications or focused diets or extensive use of kinesiology research or sabermetrics (the use of statistical methods to allow superior performance for lower outlay) or creative use of restrictive methods intended to create competitive balance (see the San Francisco 49ers in the early days of the NFL salary cap era. Deferred money and backloaded contracts anyone?), there will always be imbalance of some sort.

 

My whole point is, if you're going to keep these guys out while glossing over the "open secret" that was steroid use in MLB during that period, it seriously shows frightened ostrich behavior. Funny how the owners weren't whining about roids when ballparks couldn't hold the people who wanted to attend games to see these massive moonshots launched a few times a game.

 

Bonds and Clemens, yes. Sosa, no.

[BHK1978]

Freaking Yankees, I swear they could feed a third world country for a year with the amount of money they are paying their hurt players. I will admit that I am surprised that they are in first place; I thought they were going to suck and they still might because this is only the start of what looks like it might be a long injury plagued season.

[BHK1978]

I was watching the Red Sox/Yankees game yesterday and the Red Sox fans gave Mariano Rivera a standing ovation and now everywhere I go I either read or hear people saying that the Red Sox fans are class acts. Are you serious?

 

Maybe it is because I am a Yankees fan who lives in a state that is predominantly filled with Red Sox fans, but Red Sox fans are just horrible. Just because they cheered the greatest closer in the history of baseball does not mean they are classy for doing it.

 

After all these are the same fans that made Bill Buckner’s life a living hell for almost twenty years. Then when they finally won a World Series he was “forgiven” by them. Hell they even booed the best player in the history of their franchise. They even did their “Yankees Suck” chant during one of the Patriots’ Super Bowl parades.

 

I once went into a restaurant with some friends and I was wearing my Yankees hat. I overheard the waitress talking to the hostess and she said, “Are you serious? You are really going to seat a Yankees fan in my section? You know I don’t like Yankees fans.”

 

Now I thought this woman was just playfully joking around. Well she was not, she screwed my order up while getting my friend’s orders right, she came over to the table and asked my friend if he wanted a refill and yet ignored me totally. At the end of the meal I gave her a penny for a tip (I normally tip 20% no matter what.). After I left the restaurant I thought about how that tip would not even teach this psychotic broad anything and it would only reinforce her views on Yankees fans but she was a piece of crap so I did not really care.

 

I mean how ridiculous is it, for a person who makes a living off of tips to treat a customer poorly just because of the hat that they are wearing?

 

I do not recall who it was on here and I am too lazy to look it up, but I remember in the Boston Marathon thread someone made a stupid comment about how much better Bostonians are than New Yorkers and then the poster put Yankees suck. At the time I remember thinking how moronic that post was because it had absolutely nothing to do with the tragedy and how it was very symbolic of the typical Red Sox fan.

 

Now I am not say all Red Sox fans are jerks (Or that all Yankees fans are not jerks) because that is simply not true. Every team has their jerk fans, Philly fans I’m looking directly at you (I mean come on who boos Santa Claus?), but it seems to me (Maybe due to my geographical location) that the Red Sox have a ton of vocal fans who are for lack of a better term jerks.

 

Yes I realized I told the waitress story already in this thread but I felt it had to be told again just to point out how asinine some Red Sox fans are.

[Active Jerichoholic]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26724" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I was watching the Red Sox/Yankees game yesterday and the Red Sox fans gave Mariano Rivera a standing ovation and now everywhere I go I either read or hear people saying that the Red Sox fans are class acts. Are you serious?<p> </p><p> Maybe it is because I am a Yankees fan who lives in a state that is predominantly filled with Red Sox fans, but Red Sox fans are just horrible. Just because they cheered the greatest closer in the history of baseball does not mean they are classy for doing it. </p><p> </p><p> After all these are the same fans that made Bill Buckner’s life a living hell for almost twenty years. Then when they finally won a World Series he was “forgiven” by them. Hell they even booed the best player in the history of their franchise. They even did their “Yankees Suck” chant during one of the Patriots’ Super Bowl parades. </p><p> </p><p> I once went into a restaurant with some friends and I was wearing my Yankees hat. I overheard the waitress talking to the hostess and she said, “Are you serious? You are really going to seat a Yankees fan in my section? You know I don’t like Yankees fans.”</p><p> </p><p> Now I thought this woman was just playfully joking around. Well she was not, she screwed my order up while getting my friend’s orders right, she came over to the table and asked my friend if he wanted a refill and yet ignored me totally. At the end of the meal I gave her a penny for a tip (I normally tip 20% no matter what.). After I left the restaurant I thought about how that tip would not even teach this psychotic broad anything and it would only reinforce her views on Yankees fans but she was a piece of crap so I did not really care. </p><p> </p><p> I mean how ridiculous is it, for a person who makes a living off of tips to treat a customer poorly just because of the hat that they are wearing?</p><p> </p><p> I do not recall who it was on here and I am too lazy to look it up, but I remember in the Boston Marathon thread someone made a stupid comment about how much better Bostonians are than New Yorkers and then the poster put Yankees suck. At the time I remember thinking how moronic that post was because it had absolutely nothing to do with the tragedy and how it was very symbolic of the typical Red Sox fan.</p><p> </p><p> Now I am not say all Red Sox fans are jerks (Or that all Yankees fans are not jerks) because that is simply not true. Every team has their jerk fans, Philly fans I’m looking directly at you (I mean come on who boos Santa Claus?), but it seems to me (Maybe due to my geographical location) that the Red Sox have a ton of vocal fans who are for lack of a better term jerks.</p><p> </p><p> Yes I realized I told the waitress story already in this thread but I felt it had to be told again just to point out how asinine some Red Sox fans are.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> As a Boston fan, I think it's definitely where you live and the fact that it must be a huge part of the people that live there. I don't have the same perspective as those people since I've only been a fan of Boston teams since I was 13 and have lived all over the place, so I don't have that instinctual " I have to hate New York" attitude. I will say that when I lived in New Jersey and during my several trips to New York during those years I got treated very similarly by born and bred Yankees fans when sports came up and or I had my Boston memorabilia on. It's something that would be awesome if it was contained to the games, but so many people feel compelled to shove their favorite teams in people's faces like they've somehow helped them achieve anything. </p><p> </p><p> All that said, I do think it's just kind of a thing for long term successful market fans to get an elitist attitude, and the fact that their rivals have been so good for awhile now has just made things worse. Teams with big fan populations will have plenty of jerks, as there's just plenty of jerks in the world. Personally, I like and therefore pull mainly for the Red Sox. I've never treated a Yankee fan differently than any other sports fan. Are the games the Red Sox and Yankees play more meaningful and therefore stressful for me? Absolutely, but I still respect their players and want their best shot and hope the Sox can still be better. I think we should all just enjoy talking baseball and enjoying great games between two great teams.</p>

[GatorBait19]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Active Jerichoholic" data-cite="Active Jerichoholic" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26724" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>As a Boston fan, I think it's definitely where you live and the fact that it must be a huge part of the people that live there. I don't have the same perspective as those people since I've only been a fan of Boston teams since I was 13 and have lived all over the place, so I don't have that instinctual " I have to hate New York" attitude. I will say that when I lived in New Jersey and during my several trips to New York during those years I got treated very similarly by born and bred Yankees fans when sports came up and or I had my Boston memorabilia on. It's something that would be awesome if it was contained to the games, but so many people feel compelled to shove their favorite teams in people's faces like they've somehow helped them achieve anything. <p> </p><p> All that said, I do think it's just kind of a thing for long term successful market fans to get an elitist attitude, and the fact that their rivals have been so good for awhile now has just made things worse. Teams with big fan populations will have plenty of jerks, as there's just plenty of jerks in the world. Personally, I like and therefore pull mainly for the Red Sox. I've never treated a Yankee fan differently than any other sports fan. Are the games the Red Sox and Yankees play more meaningful and therefore stressful for me? Absolutely, but I still respect their players and want their best shot and hope the Sox can still be better. I think we should all just enjoy talking baseball and enjoying great games between two great teams.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> I thought it was a sign of respect more than anything.... No that's a lie, it was a happy clap. Lets face it everyone who isn't a Yankee should clap when he comes out this year, due to the fact that since 97 he has made teams and fans hate going to the 9th losing to the Bronx spenders. People in New York should be booing him when he comes out because you are losing the only guarantee on that team.</p>

[GatorBait19]

<p>So with the trade deadline passing a couple of weeks ago, I've been thinking about the worst trades of all-time.</p><p> </p><p>

one I use to love was the red sox trading bagwell away for 22 innings....</p><p> </p><p>

The more and more I thought about it though, lead me to a different conclusion....</p><p> </p><p>

The worst trade of all-time,</p><p> </p><p>

The Florida Marlins trade Miggy and D-Will for nobody....</p><p> </p><p>

Now while D-Will turned out to be a fad, Miggy was the real score here. Marlins were frustrated with him because he wouldn't sign their cheap contract, was overweight, and saw his stock at an all-time high so they traded him and a talented pitcher who had a rough year (signs of things to come) for what at the time was 3 of the Tigers 5 best prospects.</p><p> </p><p>

Now since this trade Miguel has BECOME the best hitter in baseball, he even moved from first to third showing his leadership ability and almost won a W.S with the Tigers. Also, which has impressed me the most, he has cut down on his strikeout rate. Now for the Tigers it stinks that D-Willis didn't regain form, but Miggy for no one is still an amazing trade especially since it was rumored that Redsox were offered Clayton Kreshaw</p><p> </p><p>

The Marlins... usually come out well on these deals, but this one truly screwed the team into an extended stay in the bottom of the league. If they had a real owner I could only imagine what a line up of Jose Reyes, Hanley Ramirez, Stanton, Miggy, and one of the great mangers they have let go... not named Ozzie</p><p> </p><p>

Maybe the Marlins are just a joke of a team....</p>

[CQI13]

<p>A sign of how awful the media thinks the Marlins really are:</p><p> </p><p>

One of the stations was advertising tickets for the Braves for their series in South Florida (rather than Marlins vs Braves tickets).</p><p> </p><p>

Another talk show host has said in all seriousness that people should let Marlins players know they aren't in the majors yet...since the Marlins are a minor league team.</p><p> </p><p>

Couldn't agree more!</p>

[GatorBait19]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="CQI13" data-cite="CQI13" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26724" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>A sign of how awful the media thinks the Marlins really are:<p> </p><p> One of the stations was advertising tickets for the Braves for their series in South Florida (rather than Marlins vs Braves tickets).</p><p> </p><p> Another talk show host has said in all seriousness that people should let Marlins players know they aren't in the majors yet...since the Marlins are a minor league team.</p><p> </p><p> Couldn't agree more!</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> at least you have a young core who could become something</p>

[BHK1978]

I used to be friends with a diehard Red Sox fan and I remember him saying how Nomar was going to be a first ballot Hall of Famer and Jeter was an overhyped player who was going to be nothing more than an afterthought. I guess he got that one wrong.

 

With the Yankees officially out of it, I am not sure who I would like to see win. Part of me is pulling for the Dodgers just because of Don Mattingly (My favorite player when I was a kid). I mean he spent all of those years with the Yankees and they never won anything. They did win it the year after he retired.

 

Then part of me would love to see the Pirates win just because my father is a fan of the Bucs so it would be cool to see them win.

 

If the Royals make it, I wouldn't mind seeing them do some damage because they have been so bad for so long.

 

The funny thing is it will probably end up being the Giants because they are due to win the World Series again because it is an even year.

[CQI13]

Why is MLB using the playoffs to try to build FOX Sports 1? It's going to kill their ratings and then they'll wonder why.

 

Someone had an interesting stat: the Giants/Pirates playoff game got a better rating than the Royals/A's game when the latter was infinitely more exciting.

[D-Lyrium]

What do you guys think of the new pace of play rules they're testing out in the AFL?

 

Personally I'm glad they're looking at it, as it is definitely one of the games' biggest detriments. I mean, I'm from the UK so I get annoyed at any sport that has excessive breaks in play just so they can shoehorn ads into the gap (ie, anything American). So a lot of the measures they're testing out will seem to remove a lot of the waiting around while the game is actually going on, which is good.

 

Some of them seem a little too far though.

 

The intentional walks thing (instead of pitching 4 balls intentionally, the manager just calls an intentional walk and the batter walks to first) is horrendous IMO, and Giants/Nats game 4 proved that it simply can't be implemented. It screws with too many things. Without having to pitch the balls, there's no chance for the catcher to do a Ramos. Also it leads to the pitcher pitching 4 fewer balls, which over a season could add up to an innings or two depending on how often it's used. It would also remove 4 potential opportunites to steal a base. I just hate it in general.

 

Not a huge fan of the pitch clock either, not at 20 seconds anyway. Doesn't seem like rushing the pitchers is a smart move from a quality point of view.

 

There's a lot I do like though. Batters having to have at least one foot in the batter box. Nothing annoys me more when watching the Giants than seeing Panda stroll around home plate for 10 minutes after every pitch waving his arms around. Everyone does it, and it's just irritating. Wouldn't need a pitcher's clock if the batters stopped wasting time.

 

Limiting the number of timeouts is also great. They should also limit when you're allowed to call timeouts, too. So many times recently I've seen timeouts called WHILE the pitcher was winding up. It's ridiculous. I get why they do it, but they shouldn't be allowed to.

 

Will be interesting to see which, if any, rules are carried over to next season's MLB. I'm hoping for at least the batter box rule.

 

 

It also occurs to me I don't think I've ever posted in this thread before. Didn't know we had one. I've always 'liked' baseball since I was a teenager, it reminded me of a more fun version of cricket where things actually happen, but this season is the first time I've ever really been drawn into the game and learned how it works and what all the stats mean (well, the important ones at least, because... yeah...). Pittsburgh Pirates fan (because both of my favourite sports teams in the UK are nicknamed the Pirates, and their colour scheme is the same as the county I'm from, so it was only natural).

 

Pulling for a Giants win because they're the team I've seen most of and I really like Posey, Panik, Pence and Panda (and Bumgarner but his name isn't alliterative). Seriously though, tell me Joe Panik is not the greatest name ever. Also because they demolished us in the wildcard game and it's always better to lose to the champions. ¬_¬ Wouldn't mind a Royals win either though because they have that wild card "we're actually really bad at this but we keep winning and it surprises us every time" feel about them. Essentially anyone but St. Louis. Not sure why but I've never liked St. Louis in anything.

[BHK1978]

Why is MLB using the playoffs to try to build FOX Sports 1? It's going to kill their ratings and then they'll wonder why.

 

Someone had an interesting stat: the Giants/Pirates playoff game got a better rating than the Royals/A's game when the latter was infinitely more exciting.

 

I agree with you, I understand why the games are on Fox Sports 1 but there are still tons of people who do not get that network so it has to be eating away at their ratings.

 

I had assumed that game one of the NLCS was going to be regulated to Fox Sports 1 so I put it on there tonight and was I annoyed with what they were doing on there with their "alternative broadcast". Basically they sat in the studio and overanalyzed the game. I understand that there are a lot of sabermetrics nerds out there that eat this crap up, but to me it ruins the game especially when they have it split screen with the people in studio on the larger screen and the actual game in the corner on a much smaller screen. Then I saw the graphic on the bottom of the screen that said the actual game was on Fox so I quickly turned it over to Fox.

 

@ D-Lyrium: I am a pick and choose fan of the game when it comes to changes. I hate the whole Wild Card bullcrap, especially now that they have added more teams. Basically because it gives more teams the chance to get in and therefore makes what a team does in the regular season less important. So what is the point of playing all of those games?

 

I hate that the American League and the National League play each other so much now. I liked it better when they did not play each other at all because it made baseball different from the NFL, NHL, and NBA. Also, some of those games people simply do not want to see. I mean I do not think many people are clamoring to see the Mariners play the Padres.

 

I am more of an American League fan and so therefore I like the DH (I would rather see any American League team win the World Series over any National League team. That is unless the AL team is the Red Sox, then I become a huge fan of whatever NL team is playing them.).

 

Now in regards to what you are talking about I agree I hate the pitcher's clock because it put more pressure on the pitcher and I think there is a chance that the pitcher could make more mistakes. Granted I have no proof of what I am saying as I have never played that position but I have to think if you screw with their timing they are going to be more apt to screw up.

 

I don't mind the batter box rule either.

 

I do hate that they want to limit the timeouts.

[BHK1978]

The funny thing is it will probably end up being the Giants because they are due to win the World Series again because it is an even year.

 

Well I was just joking about this but I might actually be right.

 

I am glad to see the Royals in the World Series. I wouldn't mind a Royals/Cardinals World Series but it does not seem that will happen.

[CQI13]

I think the second Wild Card actually gives meaning to the regular season. Don't want your season to come down to one game? Win your division. Also, it might prevent a team from playing their ace twice in a 5 game series if they had to play in the extra game. Might not matter if you take care of business anyway. But too many wild cards were getting to the WS or winning it.

 

The solution would be contraction but that will never happen.

[D-Lyrium]

Yeah, have to admit that it's always lame when sports add rules to include more teams in the end of season competitions (or competitions based on final standings from last year), because it does 'dilute' said competition a bit.

 

Like how in soccer the EPL now has four qualifying spots for the Champions League. It's hardly a CHAMPIONS league if some of the teams in it finished third or fourth in their respective domestic leagues... One year, Liverpool won the CL after finishing 3rd in the league the season before, and as they finished outside the qualifying spots the year they won the cup they had a good ol' cry about it and FIFA let them play the next year despite finishing - I think - 7th, so they could 'defend the trophy'. Which came at the expense of arch rivals Everton, as it happened.

 

However, since both the teams I'm rooting for in the world series (barring a huge collapse by the Giants) came via the wild card spots I'll pretend to like it this season. ¬_¬

 

 

Out of interest, what's the tiebreaker for the wildcard spots? If there was only one spot open, would the NLs have gone to the Giants or the Pirates, as they had basically identical records.

[CQI13]

One game playoff the day after the season ends.

[CQI13]

This was hysterical - the Marlins had a rain delay on opening and they have a retractable roof! Only in Miami...

 

And yes, it's only one game, but there were already the snarky remarks of "Man, that retooled Marlins lineup can really score some runs."

[RKOwnage]

I'm sure the rest of the league is happy that the Yankees' misery seems to be carrying over into this year >_>

[CQI13]

Well, it's a down couple of years. But what's more disconcerting is Hank Steinbrenner being more of a "numbers/money" guy than a "win at all costs" guy. George, Evil Empire and all, was a terrific owner who wanted to win. From what I've heard, Hank isn't wired the same way.

 

If they're able to turn it around, they'll look back on these few years like the mid to late 80s when the Mets were the team in NY.

[Active Jerichoholic]

I'm sure the rest of the league is happy that the Yankees' misery seems to be carrying over into this year >_>

 

I actually look forward to cheering against them when they're good, it's bad for the league for them to not do well.

[BHK1978]

I think the best thing that ever happened to the Yankees was when George was suspended from the game. It allowed Gene Michael to rebuild a team that was in shambles and he laid the groundwork for the dynasty in the 90's and into the 00's. People say that Yankees bought their championships but I am not sure a team can buy a championship. Look at the Yankees teams of the early to mid-80's, George brought in all of these top notch free agents and he got nothing out of them.

 

The Yankees did not start to get good again until the replenished their farm system. Most of the successful players during the last run of their dynasty years either came through their farm system or were traded for (I do not consider trading for a player, "buying" them. Other people may disagree with this way of thinking.) sure there were players that were bought but for the most part it was smart trading and a good farm system that made that dynasty.

 

Now if one were to look at their last championship, then yes I would say that championship was bought as most of the contributing players on that team were free agents who helped them win.

 

Honestly, I actually do not mind Hal and Hank's approach as owners because it is ridiculous to think you can or have to be competitive every year. This is not the 1950's where you could keep the same players for years on end and win championship after championship (Though the Giants seem to be proving that statement wrong, after what they have done in recent years.). You need to stink for a little bit in order to become good later on. Granted I hope the Yankees do not suck for too long.