DC vs Marvel

[Hive]

I liked Punisher: Warzone as well. While not exactly one of the best comic book adaptions, I felt it embodied his character pretty well. It's the kind of movie that's good to put on when all you want is mindles and gory 80's-style action.

[d_w_w]

I like character flaws but even moreso, I have to say that I like flaws in combat ability. I haven't ever read DC beyond mini-series, so they may be the same, but when I was riding out Marvel's Civil War it seemed as though there was a whole lot of cross-over between people's abilities and the major players could do damn near anything (if not naturally, then due to technical/magical enhancements).

 

It just kind of irked me in a way, like

 

Comic Book Dude: "Hey guy, I've got super strength and super durability"

Me: "Wow, that's pretty amazing"

Comic Book Dude: "And I've also got super reflexes and super speed"

Me: "Whoah, as well as the strength and durability?"

Comic Book Dude: "Wait I'm not done--because of the super speed I can also teleport, and I just got financed by GloboCorp so now I've got billions of dollars"

Me: "Uhh"

Comic Book Dude: "And with that money I've built gauntlets which let me fire elemental projectiles from my wrists. I can do that because my IQ is over 500"

 

I am overexaggerating slightly, as there's definitely characters who can only do one or two things, plus Civil War may have just been an odd timeline for people being overpowered, but for the most part it rarely seemed like there was any kind of insurmountable odds for the superheroes to face, since they were typically so damn good at everything. Battles were like eating a handful of several really strong spices without being able to savor any individual flavors.

 

This is my least favorite thing about comic books as well. Both Marvel and DC are guilty of it though (Aquaman lifting an entire city, anyone?) and, for me, what I've tried to do is to pick characters to follow (regardless of brand) that have roughly stable "power levels" and interesting storylines.

[d_w_w]

Also: I selected both in the poll because I read both, but if you put a gun to my head, I would go with Marvel.

 

For 2 reasons:

 

1. I'm an unabashed Spidey fanboy. Despite some serious short-comings in story quality over the last 10 years, Spidey, was, for me, the first real comic character with a personality that I could relate to.

 

2. Runaways > pretty much anything else published since 2000.

[djthefunkchris]

I like character flaws but even moreso, I have to say that I like flaws in combat ability. I haven't ever read DC beyond mini-series, so they may be the same, but when I was riding out Marvel's Civil War it seemed as though there was a whole lot of cross-over between people's abilities and the major players could do damn near anything (if not naturally, then due to technical/magical enhancements).

 

It just kind of irked me in a way, like

 

Comic Book Dude: "Hey guy, I've got super strength and super durability"

Me: "Wow, that's pretty amazing"

Comic Book Dude: "And I've also got super reflexes and super speed"

Me: "Whoah, as well as the strength and durability?"

Comic Book Dude: "Wait I'm not done--because of the super speed I can also teleport, and I just got financed by GloboCorp so now I've got billions of dollars"

Me: "Uhh"

Comic Book Dude: "And with that money I've built gauntlets which let me fire elemental projectiles from my wrists. I can do that because my IQ is over 500"

 

I am overexaggerating slightly, as there's definitely characters who can only do one or two things, plus Civil War may have just been an odd timeline for people being overpowered, but for the most part it rarely seemed like there was any kind of insurmountable odds for the superheroes to face, since they were typically so damn good at everything. Battles were like eating a handful of several really strong spices without being able to savor any individual flavors.

 

This is my least favorite thing about comic books as well. Both Marvel and DC are guilty of it though (Aquaman lifting an entire city, anyone?) and, for me, what I've tried to do is to pick characters to follow (regardless of brand) that have roughly stable "power levels" and interesting storylines.

/nod. However, they have prooved that Aquaman can be an interesting character in the past. IF I had to pick a favorite comic from back in the day, I would say it was the time period when JSA/JLA hooked up from two worlds. Aquaman is investigating something underwater, and gets beat up pretty bad. HOWEVER, us the reader seen very little of it, because we are seeing things through his eyes.... we never knew what hit him, but he has an idea.

 

He barely gets to land, and is trying to find one of the many watchtower portals, so he can get to the Satellite to warn everyone. He looks as if he is going to pass out at any minute, and a couple thugs want to take advantage of it. Although he's like 25% health, he whips the thugs quickly (doesn't have time to play, or doesn't have the strength to play, that is left up to us the reader to decide). A cab picks him up and takes him where he wants to go. The Cabby treats him like a star, and when he drops him off tells him not to worry about the cab fee. As the cab driver drives away he is talking to himself, "It's not everyday you get to give Steve McQueen a ride!" So Aquaman looks like Steve McQueen I guess.

 

When he gets to the Satellite, he finds out that it's been attacked. NOW remember, both JLA and JSA was in their. He finds out where everyone is (in a hospital), and goes to check on them. He is very upset, but when the nurse tells him that the other's dropped them off he gets excited. He thought everyone else was dead.

 

The other's were a variety of the JSA and JLA, and they cut to them going to investigate whatever attacked them. They are confronted by old heroes from long ago, with suped up weapons (Yes, including Jonah Hex). The old heroes make short work of them, and it becomes obvious they have no controll over their actions. They tell them they HAVE to do what they are doing.

 

To make a long story short, all the heroes from both worlds get beat, except semi-super Aquaman. Aquaman ends up saving the day in the end.

 

It was one of my favorites, because that doesn't happen that often. I remember Batman or Superman ussually picking up the slack. Aquaman being an "off" character and coming through really impressed me for some reason....

Also: I selected both in the poll because I read both, but if you put a gun to my head, I would go with Marvel.

 

For 2 reasons:

 

1. I'm an unabashed Spidey fanboy. Despite some serious short-comings in story quality over the last 10 years, Spidey, was, for me, the first real comic character with a personality that I could relate to.

 

2. Runaways > pretty much anything else published since 2000.

 

In the movies, I felt that Peter Parker's personality was brought out pretty good. LOVED the swinging around and having fun doing it.... even if he was running to or away from bad guys. That's one of the things I liked about Spiderman, the things he did looked like it would be fun to do (swinging on webs, like a modern day tarzan in the city), and he expressed it. Something you would never hear Batman do (for example).... however, Flash would.

 

There is alot of things DC did in the past, that just never ended up going good though... They had a similar group like the Fantastic Four before the FF ever come out. They dropped the ball with it though... I can't even remember what the name was.

[Imarevenant]

Also: I selected both in the poll because I read both, but if you put a gun to my head, I would go with Marvel.

 

For 2 reasons:

 

1. I'm an unabashed Spidey fanboy. Despite some serious short-comings in story quality over the last 10 years, Spidey, was, for me, the first real comic character with a personality that I could relate to.

 

2. Runaways > pretty much anything else published since 2000.

 

I have pretty much the same reasoning with things that DWW does with minor tweaks of course.

 

1. Unabashed Punisher and Mar-vell fanboy.

2. Can't really argue with DWW's thoughts on Runaways, but will add that since about '06 Ms Marvel has been kicking as much ass as Runaways has.

[Imarevenant]

In the movies, I felt that Peter Parker's personality was brought out pretty good. LOVED the swinging around and having fun doing it.... even if he was running to or away from bad guys. That's one of the things I liked about Spiderman, the things he did looked like it would be fun to do (swinging on webs, like a modern day tarzan in the city), and he expressed it. Something you would never hear Batman do (for example).... however, Flash would.

 

There is alot of things DC did in the past, that just never ended up going good though... They had a similar group like the Fantastic Four before the FF ever come out. They dropped the ball with it though... I can't even remember what the name was.

 

Doom Patrol They rocked socks.

 

 

And...

 

It's saddening but I have no faith that WB will ever do a proper Flash movie. And I still don't get how they aren't able to do what Marvel is currently doing with The Avengers and the attempt at a shared movie continuity. Would think it'd be easier with WB not having to mess around with character rights issues like Marvel did.

[djthefunkchris]

Doom Patrol They rocked socks.

 

 

And...

 

It's saddening but I have no faith that WB will ever do a proper Flash movie. And I still don't get how they aren't able to do what Marvel is currently doing with The Avengers and the attempt at a shared movie continuity. Would think it'd be easier with WB not having to mess around with character rights issues like Marvel did.

 

DC/Warner, whatever... They always irritate me. How come they cannot look at their most successfull comic lines, and what it featured, and go... hey, something like this would be best for a movie. Why most they take the things that make the character's so like-able, and just get rid of them.

 

Batman has always been a borderling maniac. Closest they got are the last couple of movies. Give me the Batman that people are more scared of then Dracula. Give me the "Dark Knight".

 

Superman the "Bad Ass" is what I want to see. The one that when he stops a common robbery (that they hardly ever do in any movie), the would be criminals shake in fear, and might even change their lifestyle after seeing him. Give me Superman, that doesn't play games, melts the weapons before they can even pull the trigger, put's them in a neat little package for the cops in 1/10th of a second. Give me the Superman that doesn't knock on doors, but comes crashing through the ceiling of super-villains and ruins their plans.

 

No... I have to see Superman save a plane and tell everyone "Statistically, it's the safest way to travel". As I said, maybe something Captain Marvel would say, but Superman..... He saves the plane and takes off for more pressing matter's before anyone can say anything to him. IF you want a public speach from Superman, it's when he calls for a press conference... or Lois Lane.

 

Give me Flash, the worlds greatest hero. You know... the one that can give Superman a run for his money (litterally).

 

Wonder Woman needs serious attention to her training if they ever do her. You have to have someone that can kick butt... Someone trained as well as Batman in combat. The one, that even without any power's, can whip butt and take names. The one that stands over Superman and Batmans knocked out bodies, looking at the person that did it, and tell them "Oh, your going to pay!" Give me Wonderwoman, that when confronted by a villain that says "The only way to save your friend is to kill me, HA!", and she breaks his neck without a thought. That's the Wonderwoman I want to see.... AND for God sakes, give me the skimpy costume. She's an Amazon for god's sakes.... Uninhibited.

 

Give me Batgirl, the Barbara Gordon version, that is a technical mastermind, and even after being constrained to a wheel chair, is a huge alley to have (as Oracle).

 

Shazam! That's your boyscout. That's the guy you see when you see Superman on the big screen. That's who should have stared in most of the Superman movies. How come they cannot see that?

 

They frustrate me to heck. Very interesting characters that they somehow make more cartoony in the movies, then they ever were in the comics.

 

EDIT: Some of their most unique and amazing characters are criminals, or would be criminals. The Joker and Lex we all know... but never done right (outside of I liked the last Joker). Give me Lex the political genuis, the manipulative madman, the ordinary guy that can keep Superman from touching him. Not some run-away criminal that has jokes and is one step away from being "back" in prison. This is not Lex Luthor. We are not watching Lex Luthor in the movies, but some weird character that I've never seen. Lex is a person to fear if you know him personally. He is as scarry as the Joker, and even moreso to a point, to where he can litterally poison everyone in the room, have the antidote, and save only those that allign with him. Joker is more spontanious, but Lex.... He plans his out, and it's not to destroy the world, but to have power (not really to rule). He wants to be in controll of things, and he knows how to do it.

 

Catwoman........... Give me Catwoman that doesn't know if she's a good guy or bad guy. The one that steals from the rich, gives to the poor, and is a total bombshell to boot. So sexy that police would rather watch her run away then shoot at her. Give me Catwoman that is extremely good at combat (but not super), in that the only reason Batman ever beats her is because he is her "weakness".... she likes him. Catwoman is by default, one of the most unique character in the world. Parents killed, sister seperated, been on the streets as a prostitute and everything else. Learned to fight to combat people that hurt women. Been raped, stole from, slapped around, etc.. This women has many dark secrets and yet we ALWAYS get some sex kitten version that likes to purr.... That's not Catwoman... I mean, it is to an extent, but it's more like this... The girl is hot, knows it, and knows how to manipulate people because of it. However, she doesn't EVER rely on it.

[Imarevenant]

DJ, can't argue with much that you said there. And sorry to tell you it looks like you still aren't going to get the Wonder Woman you crave. Definitely not from the David Kelly TV show at least.

 

And I like Andrianne Palicki and think she could do well in the role, just no faith in Kelly to take the character seriously, it's not really his forte.

 

 

EDIT:: I do have to disagree with one thing though. Cassandra Cain owns Barbara Gordon. This is fact.

[djthefunkchris]

DJ, can't argue with much that you said there. And sorry to tell you it looks like you still aren't going to get the Wonder Woman you crave. Definitely not from the David Kelly TV show at least.

 

And I like Andrianne Palicki and think she could do well in the role, just no faith in Kelly to take the character seriously, it's not really his forte.

 

/nod.

 

They don't get it... I don't understand why not? I mean.... The sexy stuff is part of the appeal, and I don't understand the reason to downplay all that kind of stuff, especially when it's all PG stuff anyways. It's not like her costume is a bikini, it's a one piece, lol. However, things like Powergirls suit, Zatanna's, Black Canary, etc.. These are part of the character, and part of their personality.

 

The only reason Wonder Woman gets away with what she is wearing, is because she is an Amazon, and comes from a background that doesn't really have men in it. She's just comfortable. She would be more comfortable walking around naked, and that's just because she is totally uninhibited, not because she wants to attract anyone. It's attractive to guys, yes... but she isn't thinking about that and that can be done in a movie. Remember Blue Lagoon? It can be done tastefull and innocently, and right. Make it more armorish if that makes you feel better, but make it look like the Amazon she is.

 

Black Canary wears what she does on purpose, to intimidate, and confuse criminals. Zatanna is dressed in what is common for a performer's assistant in Magic... since she's the Magician in this case, it's just not unnatural in my opinion. I could go on and on, but I have to go to work dangit... LOL.

[djthefunkchris]

EDIT:: I do have to disagree with one thing though. Cassandra Cain owns Barbara Gordon. This is fact.

 

/nod. I didn't say she didn't though, I don't think. But there is another one as well, out there.

 

Cassandra Cain is the daughter of one of the, if not theeee.... Best martial artists on the planet, right? And beat her own mother in combat before, I believe.

[Dragonmack]

It's hard to get someone in Hollywood to fill Wonder Woman's outfit ( literally) because 99% of Hollywood starlets couldn't fill a C cup, much less Lynda Carter's legendary bustier. And for a movie based on her to really have any chance at success, they need to get someone with some name value in the role. TV they can get away with casting a no name, but a major production movie can't. Hence, why we will probably never get back to the original Wonder Woman outfit. ( Speaking of which, has anyone seen the Circe outfit in DC Online? If that ever got worn in a movie it would automatically jump to an R rating regardless of content! )

[djthefunkchris]

It's hard to get someone in Hollywood to fill Wonder Woman's outfit ( literally) because 99% of Hollywood starlets couldn't fill a C cup, much less Lynda Carter's legendary bustier. And for a movie based on her to really have any chance at success, they need to get someone with some name value in the role. TV they can get away with casting a no name, but a major production movie can't. Hence, why we will probably never get back to the original Wonder Woman outfit. ( Speaking of which, has anyone seen the Circe outfit in DC Online? If that ever got worn in a movie it would automatically jump to an R rating regardless of content! )

 

Again, it's the character. The costumes are a reflection of their Character. Circe being bassically a Witch, that enhances her beauty through magic, of course she want's to be seen.

[brashleyholland]

DC/Warner, whatever... They always irritate me. How come they cannot look at their most successfull comic lines, and what it featured, and go... hey, something like this would be best for a movie. Why most they take the things that make the character's so like-able, and just get rid of them.

 

Batman has always been a borderling maniac. Closest they got are the last couple of movies. Give me the Batman that people are more scared of then Dracula. Give me the "Dark Knight".

 

Superman the "Bad Ass" is what I want to see. The one that when he stops a common robbery (that they hardly ever do in any movie), the would be criminals shake in fear, and might even change their lifestyle after seeing him. Give me Superman, that doesn't play games, melts the weapons before they can even pull the trigger, put's them in a neat little package for the cops in 1/10th of a second. Give me the Superman that doesn't knock on doors, but comes crashing through the ceiling of super-villains and ruins their plans.

 

No... I have to see Superman save a plane and tell everyone "Statistically, it's the safest way to travel". As I said, maybe something Captain Marvel would say, but Superman..... He saves the plane and takes off for more pressing matter's before anyone can say anything to him. IF you want a public speach from Superman, it's when he calls for a press conference... or Lois Lane.

 

Give me Flash, the worlds greatest hero. You know... the one that can give Superman a run for his money (litterally).

 

Wonder Woman needs serious attention to her training if they ever do her. You have to have someone that can kick butt... Someone trained as well as Batman in combat. The one, that even without any power's, can whip butt and take names. The one that stands over Superman and Batmans knocked out bodies, looking at the person that did it, and tell them "Oh, your going to pay!" Give me Wonderwoman, that when confronted by a villain that says "The only way to save your friend is to kill me, HA!", and she breaks his neck without a thought. That's the Wonderwoman I want to see.... AND for God sakes, give me the skimpy costume. She's an Amazon for god's sakes.... Uninhibited.

 

Give me Batgirl, the Barbara Gordon version, that is a technical mastermind, and even after being constrained to a wheel chair, is a huge alley to have (as Oracle).

 

Shazam! That's your boyscout. That's the guy you see when you see Superman on the big screen. That's who should have stared in most of the Superman movies. How come they cannot see that?

 

They frustrate me to heck. Very interesting characters that they somehow make more cartoony in the movies, then they ever were in the comics.

 

EDIT: Some of their most unique and amazing characters are criminals, or would be criminals. The Joker and Lex we all know... but never done right (outside of I liked the last Joker). Give me Lex the political genuis, the manipulative madman, the ordinary guy that can keep Superman from touching him. Not some run-away criminal that has jokes and is one step away from being "back" in prison. This is not Lex Luthor. We are not watching Lex Luthor in the movies, but some weird character that I've never seen. Lex is a person to fear if you know him personally. He is as scarry as the Joker, and even moreso to a point, to where he can litterally poison everyone in the room, have the antidote, and save only those that allign with him. Joker is more spontanious, but Lex.... He plans his out, and it's not to destroy the world, but to have power (not really to rule). He wants to be in controll of things, and he knows how to do it.

 

Catwoman........... Give me Catwoman that doesn't know if she's a good guy or bad guy. The one that steals from the rich, gives to the poor, and is a total bombshell to boot. So sexy that police would rather watch her run away then shoot at her. Give me Catwoman that is extremely good at combat (but not super), in that the only reason Batman ever beats her is because he is her "weakness".... she likes him. Catwoman is by default, one of the most unique character in the world. Parents killed, sister seperated, been on the streets as a prostitute and everything else. Learned to fight to combat people that hurt women. Been raped, stole from, slapped around, etc.. This women has many dark secrets and yet we ALWAYS get some sex kitten version that likes to purr.... That's not Catwoman... I mean, it is to an extent, but it's more like this... The girl is hot, knows it, and knows how to manipulate people because of it. However, she doesn't EVER rely on it.

 

I guess the issue is that all of the above is great for what we 'fans of the comics' want to see, but the fact is that few and fewer movies these days are made in the spirit of artistic expression. Superhero movies have to sell toys to kids, fact. That's why anyone who moans about the Bay Transformer movies being nothing more than massive robots shooting each other is an idiot.

 

Newsflash; when you were six you made you parents spend money on toys of massive robots that shot eachother in a cartoon. The six year-olds today are doing the same over Bay's movies.

 

It's all about lowering your expectations. I expected nothing of the X-Men, Wolveine and Spiderman films, yet I enjoyed them all. Watchmen, Punnisher: Warzone and Kick Ass, I loved. All total **** compared to the books though.

[djthefunkchris]

I guess the issue is that all of the above is great for what we 'fans of the comics' want to see, but the fact is that few and fewer movies these days are made in the spirit of artistic expression. Superhero movies have to sell toys to kids, fact. That's why anyone who moans about the Bay Transformer movies being nothing more than massive robots shooting each other is an idiot.

 

Newsflash; when you were six you made you parents spend money on toys of massive robots that shot eachother in a cartoon. The six year-olds today are doing the same over Bay's movies.

 

It's all about lowering your expectations. I expected nothing of the X-Men, Wolveine and Spiderman films, yet I enjoyed them all. Watchmen, Punnisher: Warzone and Kick Ass, I loved. All total **** compared to the books though.

 

/nod, to a point though. To me Marvel does alot better with their character portrayals... I know X-Men missed out on quite a lot... but Wolverine was good, not like his comicbook counterpart though. Professor X, excellent.. I even feel they could have not done better with Beast. They dropped the ball with Cyclops, Storm, etc... but still got the flavor pretty good.

 

Spidey, in my opinion was pretty good. I think the character's were pretty good (mainly on Spidey, not as much so on the villains).

 

Why can't DC get it somewhat right? I mean, at least the characterization right. I just watched a "scene" part from the pilot of Wonder Woman. Just looking at that, I don't mind the suit much... What bothered me more then anything else was they are calling her Diana Themyscria, as if that's her last name... It's Diana FROM Themyscria. Little things that wouldn't take much to get right. I guess I should just be happy they said Diana Themyscria, rather then Diana Prince, from Paradise Island, but I can't help to think it would have been better as Diana Prince from Themyscria (if they absolutely need a last name). These are things I believe Marvel would get right if they did it.

 

If you mess up on the small details, it's easy to see how all the main details will then be ignored. For example... Superman without power's doesn't become a Super-Wimp (like they did with Christopher Reeves, and even on Smallville a couple of times). He still knows kryptonian martial arts, and has proven to still become a Super Hero even amoungst equally strong kryptonians..... just as Batman is as a normal Human.

 

These things are totally ascrew in the movie adaptions, and I don't buy that it wouldn't sell as many toys. I feel if they did it right, it would sell more toys.

 

That Toy the new Wonder Woman has (WW doll) is actually wearing a suit more like Linda Carter's then the one showed in the Pilot.... So I don't buy the costume thing is a problem.

[Hive]

That's why anyone who moans about the Bay Transformer movies being nothing more than massive robots shooting each other is an idiot.

 

That's rather harsh, and I kinda take offense to it. I have moaned about Bay ****ing up those movies beyond recognition, are you calling me an idiot? Those movies are so horrible (or to be honest, I only saw the first one and wanted nothing more after that one) that I'd rather watch the good old 80's cartoon again. At least the cartoon had charm (still, the comic was heaps better).

 

You can sell toys and still provide decent comic book flicks, Marvel has proven that. And you can make a kiddie friendly light comic book movie much better than the crap Bay has spewn out. I'm really not super picky when it comes to comic book films, I even enjoyed the Fantastic Four movies for what they were. But what Bay did to TF is an abomination, nothing less.

[lazorbeak]

Kick-ass the movie was actually about 10000X better than the awful comic.

 

Also, re: the whole "give me so-and-so," that's just one fan's approach to how they think a character should be portrayed all the time. It's not any more right than any other interpretation and in fact some of the best elements of these characters is they can be interpreted in more than one way. Superman can be a metaphor for America, or for the displaced immigrant in an adopted world, or a ridiculous cartoon that fights robots. Frankly I think the "Superman bad ass" characterization is basically a pipe dream: you're describing Astro City's Samaritan, who was made specifically to be that one type of pastiche, not Superman.

[djthefunkchris]

Kick-ass the movie was actually about 10000X better than the awful comic.

 

Also, re: the whole "give me so-and-so," that's just one fan's approach to how they think a character should be portrayed all the time. It's not any more right than any other interpretation and in fact some of the best elements of these characters is they can be interpreted in more than one way. Superman can be a metaphor for America, or for the displaced immigrant in an adopted world, or a ridiculous cartoon that fights robots. Frankly I think the "Superman bad ass" characterization is basically a pipe dream: you're describing Astro City's Samaritan, who was made specifically to be that one type of pastiche, not Superman.

 

Just about any of the characterizations you just said, I would be alot more happier with. He's not been portrayed like that though, and whenever it has come up, particularly the displaced immigrant i an adopted world, he has dismissed it in character as if it's nothing substancial... The last movie, he was gone because he wanted to find out the truth about Krypton. Didn't seem to bother him at all, since his return though.

 

These are things that would at least make the character more interesting (at least to me). I think my favorite was the very first Christopher Reeves movie, for various reasons.

 

And you haven't read alot of Superman since 1980/90, have you? You would know that several of the top stories do depict him as a bad ass......But you have to realise I'm not talking about in the "Stone Cold" way. I'm talking about he doesn't take any crap. The bad ass stigma is taken from Alex Ross... They call it the Alex Ross bad ass Superman.

 

 

EDIT: You didn't bring up any of the other things I said though, but I agree with you to an extent. It's up to the reader or the writer to decide. I just wish they would get their backgrounds and character's right though. Penguin was not a mutant, for example. The new Batman movies are really close to the comics, and that's why it did so well in my opinion. Taking out the comicbook character and cartoonizing them, takes away quite a bit of depth. IF your going to make a "serious" movie effort, I feel you should try to make it even more interesting then the comics. That might not make any sense to someone that hasn't read much/finished a storyline, etc... but to those that have, would understand what I'm talking about.

[lazorbeak]

EDIT: You didn't bring up any of the other things I said though, but I agree with you to an extent. It's up to the reader or the writer to decide. I just wish they would get their backgrounds and character's right though. Penguin was not a mutant, for example. The new Batman movies are really close to the comics, and that's why it did so well in my opinion. Taking out the comicbook character and cartoonizing them, takes away quite a bit of depth. IF your going to make a "serious" movie effort, I feel you should try to make it even more interesting then the comics. That might not make any sense to someone that hasn't read much/finished a storyline, etc... but to those that have, would understand what I'm talking about.

 

You're really focusing on minutiae here. Who cares if Penguin is not described as a mutant in the comics? It fit Burton's world of gothic sets and nightmare-ish cartoons that he does in every movie, and that's what matters. It was an artistic interpretation, but it was made the way it was to deliberately get away from the dated cartoon character that the Penguin, in fact, is, along with the campy aftertaste of the Batman 60's show, which was most people's understanding of the character. But who cares about a change like that if it serves the story? Who cares what Wonder Woman's alter-ego calls herself, considering that can be explained in one sentence of dialogue? I mean sure it'd be cool if some obscure Wonder Woman supporting cast member shows up as a minor character, but it shouldn't be a deal-breaker.

 

I also really don't see how Nolan's Batman films are "really close" to the comics. They looked at Year One and some of the earliest and best comics for inspiration, but diverged from all of those stories in major ways to tell their own version of Batman. They cut a lot of the unbelievable and cartoonish elements from the story while trying to keep it larger than life. It's a good and successful interpretation, but I don't see how it's derived from any "this is like the comics = this is good" formula. Some movies are like the comics and still stink,, some are separate from the comics and are better because of it (Blade, Kick-Ass, probably more), and some are both separate from comics and also terrible. But the success is more about "is this a good story?" more than it is "is this like a comic book?"

[Remianen]

Marvel beats DC due to a lack of bureaucracy and greater desire. Marvel NEEDED to find a new revenue stream when comics stopped selling all that well. DC didn't since they were insulated by Warner.

 

Personally, I don't give a flip about Superman and Batman. I'd like to see DC use their incredible assets outside of the Justice League trio. They have SO many characters that could be compelling in film versions (even more when you add Jim Lee's Wildstorm). I mean, you have Power Girl (and most of the JSA), Lobo (which is an easy low budget choice), Teen Titans (and Cassie/Wonder Girl could easily be a spinoff of the Wonder Woman movie), Huntress, and then you add things like Gen13, The Authority, WildC.A.T.S, and Stormwatch.

 

But right now, Marvel's in a much more advantageous position than DC. Sure, DC kicks their asses when it comes to gaming (Marvel has yet to produce a game that could even dream of competing with Arkham Asylum and their MMO is going to flop due to the cluelessness of its developers. They still don't get the fact that quality/polish takes time and thus, costs money) but their films don't come fast enough to warrant any serious competitive consideration.

 

I'm also not so sure about the idea that you HAVE to get big names to play well known characters. Star Trek didn't do too bad and those were mainly no names.

[LordJaguar]

Remianen is right you don't need big names to do a successful movie...after all who the hell was Hugh Jackman before X-Men? However try convincing Hollywood of that...Nick Cag as Ghost Rider, ugh!

 

As far as the comics go...I love Marvel and hate DC. DC seems to try too hard IMO...let's take a look shall we?

 

Batman...suppossed to be this "dark" villain but after several years of never killing anyone you would think when he hung a villian by his legs over a ledge they would just laugh at him and tell him to F off.

 

Shazam...kid becomes superman and acts like a whiney brat.

 

Superman...has 1 weakness (2 if you count the added weakness to "magic") so where is the suspense? Oh wait...every other month someone finds a tint spec of kryptonite...

 

Wonder Woman...lets do a PG version of oversexualization! And give her an invisible jet...

 

Green Lantern...the chosen one...unless we need a backup then it's that other guy, or the one standing to the left...screw it bring back Guy Gardner and make him half alien!

 

Hawkman...he's a man...he's a bird...he's egyptian, or alien, or both, or a reincarnated...

 

DC Universe...whatever happens today can be written out as an alternate earth Deus Ex Machina away!

[djthefunkchris]

Remianen is right you don't need big names to do a successful movie...after all who the hell was Hugh Jackman before X-Men? However try convincing Hollywood of that...Nick Cag as Ghost Rider, ugh!

 

As far as the comics go...I love Marvel and hate DC. DC seems to try too hard IMO...let's take a look shall we?

 

Batman...suppossed to be this "dark" villain but after several years of never killing anyone you would think when he hung a villian by his legs over a ledge they would just laugh at him and tell him to F off.

 

Shazam...kid becomes superman and acts like a whiney brat.

 

Superman...has 1 weakness (2 if you count the added weakness to "magic") so where is the suspense? Oh wait...every other month someone finds a tint spec of kryptonite...

 

Wonder Woman...lets do a PG version of oversexualization! And give her an invisible jet...

 

Green Lantern...the chosen one...unless we need a backup then it's that other guy, or the one standing to the left...screw it bring back Guy Gardner and make him half alien!

 

Hawkman...he's a man...he's a bird...he's egyptian, or alien, or both, or a reincarnated...

 

DC Universe...whatever happens today can be written out as an alternate earth Deus Ex Machina away!

 

LOL. Now that is exactly what I think of the movie adaptions of all DC movies thus far (outside of Batman).

 

For those that don't know though... Everything I said I would like to see, was taken from comicbook storylines. I didn't just make it up out of thin air.

[crayon]

As far as the comics go...I love Marvel and hate DC. DC seems to try too hard IMO...let's take a look shall we?

 

Batman...suppossed to be this "dark" villain but after several years of never killing anyone you would think when he hung a villian by his legs over a ledge they would just laugh at him and tell him to F off.

 

Shazam...kid becomes superman and acts like a whiney brat.

 

Superman...has 1 weakness (2 if you count the added weakness to "magic") so where is the suspense? Oh wait...every other month someone finds a tint spec of kryptonite...

 

Wonder Woman...lets do a PG version of oversexualization! And give her an invisible jet...

 

Green Lantern...the chosen one...unless we need a backup then it's that other guy, or the one standing to the left...screw it bring back Guy Gardner and make him half alien!

 

Hawkman...he's a man...he's a bird...he's egyptian, or alien, or both, or a reincarnated...

 

DC Universe...whatever happens today can be written out as an alternate earth Deus Ex Machina away!

 

"Hate" seems like an extremely strong term for a brand which is doing its own thing in another area of the industry. I'm sure a DC fan could easily turn around and bring up examples of perceived Marvel silliness, although its probably better we keep as much flamebait away from a thread like this

[djthefunkchris]

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/Sam655321/575.jpg

"Hate" seems like an extremely strong term for a brand which is doing its own thing in another area of the industry. I'm sure a DC fan could easily turn around and bring up examples of perceived Marvel silliness, although its probably better we keep as much flamebait away from a thread like this

 

Most of it is derived from the DC Mentality from years ago (mainly before Marvel prooved to have a good idea). Superman was this unstoppable force that at the same time could be an immovable object... A person that could move planets, travel through time by flying really really fast, etc. AND a "Perfect" role model, a character without any character flaws that always did what was right, etc. For the most part, almost all their main character's were "perfect" people, without flaws...

 

Then Marvel come along and although they had a flawless character in Captain America, along comes nerdy Peter Parker that has trouble paying his rent. Bruce Banner who is forced away from the woman he loves, and cannot controll his other persona. A really rich, intelligent man that develops a suit that can combat even "The Hulk", yet ultimately a Drunk. A team of misfits that the rest of society doesn't get along with, yet is led by a flawless character personality in Professor X, yet he is paralyzed. It goes on and on. These things are things Marvel did to make truely unique character's that many could actually associate with. These character's with flaws... were things that DC lacked for the most part... outside of the earlier version of Batman (the earliest is every bit as dark as the new movies depict).

 

However, DC has grown up, or expanded, or whatever you want to call it. Each person is not just a carbon copy of Superman with different power's.... but they used to be, or might as well have been at one time. Now you have an embassador from Themyscria that has commited murder.

http://www.toplessrobot.com/Wonder%20Woman%20v2%20219%2022.jpg

A Batman that doesn't trust anyone, and keeps "safeguards" that would allow him to destroy them should they go a route he wouldn't like, a Man of Steel that is conflicted between Kryptonians and his adopted home, a Batgirl that is skilled in assination, a Batwoman that is more like the old Batman, a hotheaded Powergirl, and all of the different character's Remi mentioned..

 

There is alot of Potential, that even to me Lazor brought up some good things that could be used, but never have in any of the movies. As I said, the only compelling story I have liked is Batman. I here Lobo is in the works, and if they do him right, it could be really cool.

 

And just to correct an earlier statement... Batman has killed three people that I know of, I believe the first one was also his first appearance. He also carried a gun (this is all in his early days) for a while.

http://www.asitecalledfred.com/comics101/images/2003/nov26/killing.jpg

He also killed a guy by knocking the guy into a vat of acid. He killed Ra's Al Ghul, although he knew he would be revived. He killed someone that stuck their head out of a window as he was swinging by, breaking their neck with a kick.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/Ratso/batman_cossack.jpg

 

There's probably more, but off the top of my head... I think he killed The Monk and Dala, He killed a mugger in Detective Comics... I'm sure there is more. You don't mess with Bats.

http://www.asitecalledfred.com/comics101/images/2004/jan21/strangling.jpg

 

I believe Superman has actually killed more people than Batman, should I continue, or would this really upset some people?

 

http://foxhugh.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/superman-22.jpg

[Fleisch]

I'm not into comicsas much as I usedto be, but whenever Marvel or DC get the film treatment I'll watch them.

[GatorBait19]

So I wasn't truly interested in watching the green lantern until I saw the 4 minutes from the movie on pastapadre.com