leithal Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 <p>After simming a bunch of fights, it seems that I just hit an anomalous stretch of leglocks not working. I was able to see various finishes targeting the legs after simming more fights with various participants. I must have bad luck <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/eek.png.0e09df00fa222c85760b9bc1700b5405.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> To reiterate what I said before, the wrestling in this game seems to still be overpowered, in conjunction with the weight issue I mentioned before. I went for a long stretch without playing this game (was busy with schoolwork <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> ) so I missed the point many of you are referring to where the discrepancy between wresting skills was worse than now (in a previous patch). To make sure it wasn't a database issue, I went back to default and made Carlton an active fighter again. I simmed a bunch of fights with him and Hughes, and the result was identical. 100% of the time Carlton won dominantly, Hughes never had a chance to even throw a punch most of the time. And, Carlton still dominated other heavyweights who were smaller, like Terron Cabal (265 vs about 230). </p><p> </p><p> And, fighters still seemed to take less than reasonable gameplans, playing into opponent's strengths where it doesn't make sense to do so (Aldarisio would either not shoot for takedowns, or would take his opponent down and immediately stand as if he had escape artist against Lloyd McAlister. And Napier would ignore taking down Sutton Ripley, even though is advantage on the ground is monstrous). </p><p> </p><p> Finally, rocked fighters still recover almost all of the time, which is strange because seeing fighters "go limp" after GnP was fairly common in previous patches before this one. I see the occasional TKO (referee stoppage) but for the most part it doesn't happen anymore.</p><p> </p><p> I reiterate these points because I would appreciate knowing if anyone else experiences these issues? A couple of you have commented on these issues already and it's very much appreciated. It helps me to find out if I'm crazy or not (haha)! I've jumped the gun in the past and gotten flustered not having done a reasonable amount of research into the game (I may have angrily posted about jiu jitsu being overpowered... sorry about that <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/redface.png.900245280682ef18c5d82399a93c5827.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> ), but I just love this game so much and I want it to be the best it can be.</p><p> </p><p> Edit: The "loves to roll" attribute does nothing. The gameplan issue is clear and present, as any fighter who I give this attribute to generally never goes for takedowns. I gave Toby Sorkin this attribute and not once did he ever go for a takedown against many different opponents. He would only go for submissions after rocking his opponent on the feet. This needs to be fixed.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celuwyn Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 The problem is that Terron Cabal is billed as a monster, but in the WMMA engine it can't be reproduced. Attribute are a great thing, but we lack "a thing" to really choose the destiny of the fighter. Put Cabal against any wrestler and he will surely lose. I've always thought of a thing like "Career Destiny", and with name like "Destroyer" etc. Cabal would be able to "tweak" the engine of WMMA4 to win the majority of his match by devastating KO (and why not, with a special celebration that we can add in a editor) with a percentage that "destroyer" will work. If not, the normal engine take the lead. As for the GNP, i've started to think that fighter in WMMA are immune to that. Rarely there are TKO. There are still much things for WMMA5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerdilligaf Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Agree the GnP isnt really working at the mo & people are struggling to finish a downed opponent. I'm still tryin to get a hang of which attributes actually work. If you give a fighter loves to wrestle & loves to strike will 1 cancel the other out or are they more rounded without any attributes added? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leithal Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I think that is a good idea, Celuwyn. And with an option like that, it could even be tweaked to work for other things too - maybe a certain guy like Li-Kong Ho goes for insane submissions akin to a crazy knockout (and then shows special celebration to confirm). I think I found a possible explanation for my issue of why bigger weight fighters are having an advantage in some cases, and why some fighters are fighting oddly. For my database, I imported CV Expanded from WMMA 3, but I removed Super Heavyweights. Once I did this, I imported the new Super Heavyweight Fighters from WMMA 4, but changed their weight classes to Heavyweight (by modifying their weights in the editor). I think this may have confused the game, as many if not all of the fights involving these fighters were ones where guys wouldn't go for takedowns and would act weirdly. It still happens in certain instances, as I mentioned as well, but many of these times I feel were due to this. It's just a theory, but all signs that I've seen point to this (in my particular case). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerdilligaf Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Wmma3 had a great fight engine in the end & i'm sure we got a developer who listens to us fussy buggers :-D i like the broken hand disadvantage but i'd like 2 see this guy not attempt & miss for 2 rounds i'd rather he try fight on left handed or quit the fight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerdilligaf Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I getting guys break their hand in 1st round they spend nxt 2 rounds missing with a right hand power punch?with a broken hand they wouldnt try that power punch it should be taken out of the equation & the fighter should adjust his tactics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celuwyn Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I getting guys break their hand in 1st round they spend nxt 2 rounds missing with a right hand power punch?with a broken hand they wouldnt try that power punch it should be taken out of the equation & the fighter should adjust his tactics I think Adam has just changed a variable in the game for broken hands. It's difficult for him, he can't change all the system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk1665 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 How exactly do the backgrounds work? Let's say I set someone to High Level Wrestling, does that mean it sets their cap for that skill at a certain stage and they'll never get higher then that? If so, unless you're intentionally making a poor fighter why would you ever choose the lower backgrounds? It doesn't seem realistic that a good amateur wrestler couldn't possibly become a great MMA wrestler with training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexB Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 After playing through a few cards I'm enjoying the patch. It seems more like 1.23 with more variables in striking, sprawls, etc - just a little bit more lively. I'm getting a lot less subs, but tbh that doesn't bother me as long as the fights seem real. Had one alarm bell when Jay Dorridge fought a newgen BJJ fighter and it was a striking fight until the 3rd, but when I checked although Dorridge had an advantage on the ground, the newgen had 0-5% striking skill and very little power, so his best game plan was to stand up as he woas better skilled and couldn't get hurt. Which actually made the striking a reason to be cheerful, not worried. Thumbs up so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celuwyn Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Some of my fighter are now invincible. I have someone with 30% clinch control, the best to beat that is to initiate a clinch..and nobody does that. In 1.23, fighter try the clinch. But it's the only thing that bother me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celuwyn Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 How exactly do the backgrounds work? Let's say I set someone to High Level Wrestling, does that mean it sets their cap for that skill at a certain stage and they'll never get higher then that? If so, unless you're intentionally making a poor fighter why would you ever choose the lower backgrounds? It doesn't seem realistic that a good amateur wrestler couldn't possibly become a great MMA wrestler with training. Sorry for second post. I've run test for you. It seems that if i create a fighter with low skill, and i make a World calibre background, he will develop in that way, to become a beast. No sure, I will do other test, to see if the "Potential" change something if i make it to 100 or 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackman Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 It's only there for development so it has nothing to do with caps. That's mostly destiny, and partially the starting values of stats. So good ones get better and crappy ones rarely get good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufusld Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 did anyone notice that americana became very rare on 1.29? even north south and kneebar are more common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leithal Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 did anyone notice that americana became very rare on 1.29? even north south and kneebar are more common. I've never seen an americana even attempted in any match I've seen. It was this way for me before 1.29, however, so I cannot say if 1.29 is the cause. Then again, I thought leglocks weren't happening, but after many simmed fights I found I had just hit an anomalous string of bad luck with them, so maybe we are just unlucky? I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsilv0 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 did anyone notice that americana became very rare on 1.29? even north south and kneebar are more common. I pretty much second this. I've seen a few americana attempts but 0 finishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufusld Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I've seen a few attempts too. It was realistically common in the old versions of fight engine but after last few patches it almost seized to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerdilligaf Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 The fight engine is actually working well but the improvements that would make it almost perfect for me are: Loves to roll attribute working better Having a proper ground & pound attribute so we get more finishes rather than fighters standing back up More cuts & referee stoppages Broken hands completely disable that hand they either dont use that hand & struggle left handed (right for southpaws) or quit a round later The balance in the fight engine is fight engine is fine but these things would really make it so much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackman Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 Agreed on the broken hands, but then the prevalence should be decreased somewhat imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingster Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Agreed on the broken hands, but then the prevalence should be decreased somewhat imo. Nah, if anything broken hands are probably far too rare. I think they happen far more often in real life as they do in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paatero Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I doubt it. Hand injuries of varying extents are probably common, but I think we'd hear about it if people broke their hands every other fight in real life. In my games I feel like I average well over 1 broken hand per card. It's not uncommon to have 2 or 3. My main problem is that the suspension is always 6 months, no matter how severe the injury. Really kills the momentum of some fighters / whole divisions sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donners Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 In a fight between two great submission fighters, is it normal for them to just stand and trade blows with just one takedown attempt in five rounds? I'm wondering whether it's because they're both meant to be concerned about the other's submission ability, or if it's an oddity. Here's their attributes: http://i.imgur.com/emHwB4L.png http://i.imgur.com/IxkEtPB.png And here's the fight stats from five rounds: http://i.imgur.com/w5VpVY1.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBlancX Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 In a fight between two great submission fighters, is it normal for them to just stand and trade blows with just one takedown attempt in five rounds? I'm wondering whether it's because they're both meant to be concerned about the other's submission ability, or if it's an oddity. Here's their attributes: http://i.imgur.com/emHwB4L.png http://i.imgur.com/IxkEtPB.png And here's the fight stats from five rounds: http://i.imgur.com/w5VpVY1.png To be honest if this happens from time to time it's actually fine as it's happens in real life as well sometimes. Lastest example is perhaps Ryan Bader vs Phil Davis. Over 99% stand up fighting and just one TD from Bader if im correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufusld Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 with 1.30 americana is back. also seen 2 heel hooks. however d'arce and anaconda still do not work ( fight engine is more balanced though ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexB Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 with 1.30 americana is back. also seen 2 heel hooks. however d'arce and anaconda still do not work ( fight engine is more balanced though ) Yes - new patch is very encouraging so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leithal Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I am LOVING the new patch. Pretty much everything I could have thought about has been fixed. Thank You Adam and Grey Dog!!! Concering d'arce and anaconda, I've never seen either in WMMA 4 or WMMA 3. It's pretty rare. I also really like the idea of an actual GnP attribute, rather than the "no submissions" one the game currently has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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