TEW2020 Discussion Thread

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Just again, the power of basic research.

 

In the near 20 something year history of WCW you could count the amount of wrestlers they signed out of WWFs trash bin on one hand.

 

 

WWF tended to sign slightly more WCW guys(it was still very, very few) but that seems only because WWE was intentionally starting a youth movement while WCW only cares about having veteran over workers. So guys like Edge and HHH ended up slipping through WCWs cracks as they were just young job guys.

 

 

 

Haku and Brian Adams are two of the only guys I can think of that were flat out released by WWF as unwanted and signed to WCW. Bam Bam was another but he left due to politics.

 

The rest of the guys like Paul Roma and such were poached due to having value. Meaning they had negotiating power.

[Derek B]

Guys, take it to PM of you want to continue this debate because it's adding nothing to the discussion here that hasn't been talked about or thought about by the development team.

[Goliath764]

Wow, we are now restricting discussion in a discussion thread? I am not sure those "I like feature X" posts add much either if you want to stop us with "that hasn't been talked about or thought about by the development team". And I am not dissing those posts, I just find the restriction ridiculous. I am happy to talk about other things if people are starting a different topic. I also don't see a debate being a problem here. Deep discussions, even if heated, are way better contents than "reaction posts" in my book.

 

And I am not trying to start a debate or whatever with you, I just disagree that debates like these is a problem. I find a lot of people overreact to online debates and trying to peace-make, I don't see the need of that at all.

 

It's not like we are c***blocking the whole thread from other discussion either. I can understand your post if we are like 5 pages deep and preventing anything else from being discussed, but we are only like 10 posts in and no one has started anything else.

 

----------------------------------------

 

But oh well, if we are preferred to not discuss that further, let's see..at this point, I am waiting for more details on the new gimmick system. I like the additions of #7, #8 and #9 but I don't really have a lot to say about them.

[Guest Asaemon]

Guys, take it to PM of you want to continue this debate because it's adding nothing to the discussion here that hasn't been talked about or thought about by the development team.

 

Is it really members debating or is it the same single "guy/member" that needs to quote and post about everything in this thread all the time?

 

So instead of informing all the members, maybe have the PM discussion directly with the single "guy/member" instead?

[ChairToFace]

Wow, we are now restricting discussion in a discussion thread? I am not sure those "I like feature X" posts add much either if you want to stop us with "that hasn't been talked about or thought about by the development team". And I am not dissing those posts, I just find the restriction ridiculous. I am happy to talk about other things if people are starting a different topic. I also don't see a debate being a problem here. Deep discussions, even if heated, are way better contents than "reaction posts" in my book.

 

I mean, there's a reason it's called the TEW 2020 Discussion Thread. Plenty of other threads to use for posting anything else that relates to wrestling.

 

Plus, I'd rather not have a long debate clog up the pages on this thread.

[TeemuFoundation]

Yea, I find it annoying that I click on this thread for TEW 2020 discussion, and have to navigate through pages and pages of offtopic.

[Goliath764]

I mean, there's a reason it's called the TEW 2020 Discussion Thread. Plenty of other threads to use for posting anything else that relates to wrestling.

 

Plus, I'd rather not have a long debate clog up the pages on this thread.

 

I agree on your post and I disagree on your assessment that we are off-topic. The whole discussion of the war and aftermath and wrestler's mindset revolves around the "Spoils Of War", an addition of the TEW 2020 in one of the relatively recent journals. To be more precise, we are discussing about whether the mood gain from winning the war is justified and our opinions on the implementation.

 

And BTW I am replying this one cuz I am quoted. Otherwise, I wouldn't to stop the off-topic train.

[D16NJD16]

The social media storm feature should only be a factor in National and above promotions, it wouldn't make much sense otherwise. No one is paying attention to what some random indy wrestler is doing on social media.

[joshspicer]

The social media storm feature should only be a factor in National and above promotions, it wouldn't make much sense otherwise. No one is paying attention to what some random indy wrestler is doing on social media.

 

Yeah, but then you get something like Priscilla Kelly.

[shawn michaels]

The social media storm feature should only be a factor in National and above promotions, it wouldn't make much sense otherwise. No one is paying attention to what some random indy wrestler is doing on social media.

 

 

If the levels of the feature could reflect company sizes or how it would affect workers, it would be top notch. If not, a media storm is always a media storm anyway. It will happen to everyone, national, international or much below. It will still be a pain for those smaller workers cause their market share, aka everyone that knows them, will be engulfed in said storm. But I don't definitely think it should be restricted to big companies only.

 

Heck, sometimes unknown guys are even skyrocketed to a global platform (in good or bad ways) over them.

[Vinsmoker]

If the levels of the feature could reflect company sizes or how it would affect workers, it would be top notch. If not, a media storm is always a media storm anyway. It will happen to everyone, national, international or much below. It will still be a pain for those smaller workers cause their market share, aka everyone that knows them, will be engulfed in said storm. But I don't definitely think it should be restricted to big companies only.

 

Heck, sometimes unknown guys are even skyrocketed to a global platform (in good or bad ways) over them.

 

Fans sharing some wrestler via social media is definitely one of the key reasons to Joey Janela's success

[LordofGustav]

The only thing that worries about this social media feature is that it will look unrealistic on pre-2007 mods. There will be any way to customize it?

[Historian]

The only thing that worries about this social media feature is that it will look unrealistic on pre-2007 mods. There will be any way to customize it?

 

Obviously this feature is time-locked to the modern age.

 

I think, without knowing for sure, that it is probably safe to assume that it will be timelocked for errors that it is unrealistic for -- so probably only for things set since 2010 or so (or whenever Twitter actually took off, since most if it is a Twitter and YouTube thing and I know that YouTube existed before 2007, but I don't recall it being what it is until 2010 or so.

[Historian]

The social media storm feature should only be a factor in National and above promotions, it wouldn't make much sense otherwise. No one is paying attention to what some random indy wrestler is doing on social media.

 

I disagree. You have cases like the Elite Crew that became hugely popular in America -- despite Kenny Omega having worked primarily in Japan and the Young Bucks having never worked for a proper national company in the United States -- getting themselves over in the United States because of their successful use of social media.

 

You also have how many instances of someone going viral because of something very stupid? Like the viral post about the company in Southern Indiana that had to call for its fans to get tested for AIDS? They weren't a national company, but people sure paid attention to that specific story.

 

Which is only to say that I don't think there needs to be a cap of focusing on national and above promotions.

[franticloser]

I disagree. You have cases like the Elite Crew that became hugely popular in America -- despite Kenny Omega having worked primarily in Japan and the Young Bucks having never worked for a proper national company in the United States -- getting themselves over in the United States because of their successful use of social media.

 

You also have how many instances of someone going viral because of something very stupid? Like the viral post about the company in Southern Indiana that had to call for its fans to get tested for AIDS? They weren't a national company, but people sure paid attention to that specific story.

 

Which is only to say that I don't think there needs to be a cap of focusing on national and above promotions.

 

Yeah going to second this, many wrestlers have blown up on the indy scene due to social media. To say no one pays attention is a ridiculous. Look at Priscilla Kelly she got a lot of coverage for doing a tampon on a puke spot during matches, and then talking about it on social media. Social media is a huge market for indy workers to get themselves over in this day and age.

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Yeah going to second this, many wrestlers have blown up on the indy scene due to social media. To say no one pays attention is a ridiculous. Look at Priscilla Kelly she got a lot of coverage for doing a tampon on a puke spot during matches, and then talking about it on social media. Social media is a huge market for indy workers to get themselves over in this day and age.

 

 

Who?

[franticloser]

So because you either are trolling to make your point, or you personally don't follow things. It means no one else does either? Indy wrestlers can get coverage and blow up good or bad. And since the social media storm in a wrestling games, would first and foremost be towards the wrestling fanbase, they are more likely to know about it. And if say ROH decided to push a worker in this day and age, who let's say post a bunch of homophobic stuff on their twitter, you know it would get picked up further.

 

I mean TNA fired Jessica Havok because an old post of her dressed as a **** for Halloween years prior was found. It wasn't until recently she was hired back.

 

A wrestler may still hired by lower end local companies regardless but no one at I'd say regional or above would touch them. If we consider game terms ROH would still be regional albeit with National coverage through Sinclair's stations. If there was any wrestler who posted something that could create backlash they would have to consider if they where worth the risk. It is the world we live in. And so, I believe personally that any wrestler should be subjected to a social media backlash, and at the very least Regional companies and above should have to consider hiring them as a risk.

[Goliath764]

I think it makes sense to give a slightly higher chance of media storm happening for higher pop wrestlers, but definitely don't ignore the indie guys. An unknown can be memed and be famous a day later, that's the power of internet.

 

But I don't think this small feature(said so in the journal) is going to be made with extra detail, so I am cool with just everyone having an equal chance.

[Teh_Showtime]

Who?

 

Joey Janela, The Young Bucks, Joey Ryan (who was hired to TNA directly because of it)

[shawn michaels]

I think it makes sense to give a slightly higher chance of media storm happening for higher pop wrestlers, but definitely don't ignore the indie guys. An unknown can be memed and be famous a day later, that's the power of internet.

 

But I don't think this small feature(said so in the journal) is going to be made with extra detail, so I am cool with just everyone having an equal chance.

 

100% agree with this in regards to both this and I apply it also to spoils of war. People (all of us in general, not pointing fingers to anyone specific) will sometimes unnecessarily discuss something to exhaustion until something new is announced. One just has to accept the internet for what it is. As long as no one is insulting anyone, or breaking any rules, have fun at it, boys and girls.

 

But i pretty much think this post sums it up. Small neat features that add up but are not that complicated or important to warrant being made into such a big deal with all the complexity we've been talking about.

[Goliath764]

But i pretty much think this post sums it up. Small neat features that add up but are not that complicated or important to warrant being made into such a big deal with all the complexity we've been talking about.

 

I think differently from you. I am all for putting details into the smaller features and adding complexity if possible. When it comes to the simulation genre, I like complexity in every aspects. But I also understand that's just not how it goes with small features in Greydog games and I am cool with it being implemented either way.

[cappyboy]

Yeah going to second this, many wrestlers have blown up on the indy scene due to social media. To say no one pays attention is a ridiculous. Look at Priscilla Kelly she got a lot of coverage for doing a tampon on a puke spot during matches, and then talking about it on social media. Social media is a huge market for indy workers to get themselves over in this day and age.

 

Who?

 

TLC, be glad you can ask that. The incident Frantic is describing sure makes me wish I still could. Watched the clip once and that was once more than I would ever have needed to have a happy and fulfilling life. Pretty much the same way most of Joey Ryan's antics make me wish I'd never seen him. But repellent as both performers are, they do both make the point that people do learn indy talent due to social media buzz.

[TLCJR4LIFE]

I think most of these are pretty resistant to mainstream audiences. I don’t even give that low budget Indy garbage a click. I let the indies stick to what it’s good at, flippy stuff and terrible tag matches with zero psychology.

 

Smarks eat up anything, they are the lowest common denominator of fandom.

But in terms of TEW popularity most of these Indy guys aren’t even a blip on the radar including Joey Ryan and his cornball tactics.

 

 

Even a guy like Kenny Omega is a B tier star even compared to an older washed up guy like Jericho, let alone the Cenas and Reigns of the world.

[franticloser]

I think terms like smark and mark as insults is outdated. We are all marks, even the wrestlers are marks (usually the biggest ones) and saying indy fans are smarks is just insulting. How dare a fan of wrestling actually want to watch a variety of wrestling! Just because it isn't for you, doesn't mean you need to talk down to others that it is for. The fact that Cody and The Young Bucks (which I'm not a fan of) sold out a stadium with no real build a year ago, and have been so far able to follow that success is great for the business and shows that it isn't just "smarks" who are paying attention. Is it for you? No, but that doesn't mean the fans it is for are less then you or smarks or the lowest denominator. If you really look at it the lowest denominator would be mainstream fans. As they only follow what is easy to access instead of digging into other things.

 

As I stated earlier in this thread, you are not all wrestling fans, you aren't even all mainstream fans. So, saying that that doesn't penetrate mainstream fans, isn't really true. It just doesn't penetrate to you. Because YOU don't care. and that is fine. Wrestling at it's base offers something for everyone. Are the stereotypical "basement dwelling neck beards" fans a thing? Yes, and they can be annoying. But the mainstream "I'm better then you because I'm not you" fan does as well and they can also be annoying.

 

I mean we are all fans of a form of entertainment that is made up, and we all love it for different reasons.

 

The gross generalization of indie wrestling being flips and tag matches with no psychology isn't true either. Daniel Bryan got over on having great technical matches, Jon Moxley on wild brawls, Nigel McGuinness was a a great mix of power and technical wrestling as was Cesaro. Not to mention Kevin Steen, Sami Sayn, Viking Raiders, Pete Dunne, Roderick Strong, Adam Cole, Aleister Black, among others.

 

But all of that is off topic to a point. tl:dr You aren't every fan, you aren't the voice of the mainstream fans either. So, just because you don't care doesn't mean those who do care are less then you. And Indie wrestling isn't all flips and no psychology. If you'd like to further debate this subject, I suggest moving it to the Dog Pound section instead of clogging up the dev journal, as we are veering way off topic and arguing over something from two very different view points on what matters to wrestling (I support the views that if you are a fan and passionate about wrestling why not seek out as much of it as you can? You are more about mainstream and just grab what is easy to grab.)

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Most of those guys didn’t have watchable matches until going through the big leagues.

 

And smarks don’t want a “variety of wrestling”. A smark is hard to define, but the best I got

 

 

- A smark judges the quality of a wrestling show/match based on how much they personally agree with the booking.

- Values high spots over everything, no matter how many times it’s been done before, won’t hesistate to try to start a holy **** chant for even the most mundane high spot.

- Bases their opinions on worker quality from the outdated headings of Dave Meltzer

- Has zero understanding of match psychology because has a short attention span, is so into the idea of wrestling as a show performance the workers get over on senseless spots. See anyone who has ever thought the Young shucks have ever had a good match.

- Enjoyment of wrestling comes from putting themselves over and putting themselves into the show in anyway possible, even if it’s just throwing money at 6 Indy guys in a bingo hall after enough choreographed flip routines and dick spots.

- Will generally pretend that any non-Charlotte women’s wrestler is capable of headlining a major company’s Shows without it being a debacle, will also generally pretend that Charlotte isn’t the best women’s wrestler by a country mile, being the only one in the division with believable athleticism/strength for you know... a wrestler.

- Will likewise pretend that run of the mill vanilla midgets are superior to Cenas and Reigns, who run circles around these guys athletically, simply because said vanilla midgets came from the indies where they performed Japanese style suplexes for no reason at all(MOVEZ!)

This is how we got a year + of CM Punk as world champion, who has all of the believability of a high school janitor, performing top rope Elbow drops with the intensity of a senior citizen.

 

 

 

These are just a few ways to define smarks. But basically they ruined wrestling in many ways and the sooner bookers start ignoring them the better the wrestling industry will be.