TEW2020 Discussion Thread

[Matt_Black]

<p>The two main things I wouldn't mind seeing-</p><p> </p><p>

Being able to search via alter ego details. "I need a masked wrestler; anyone I'm missing...?"</p><p> </p><p>

Buying/ reviving companies after the fact. For instance, if SOTBPW wants to buy the MPWF titles, there's currently no problem. If they wanted to buy them and start them as a new brand (with their old show) or a developmental company, that's much more difficult.</p>

[Hive]

<p>Today's entry on products is interesting. As a modder, I agree that the current system in 2016 - while flexible - could be a challenge to use.</p><p> </p><p>

Question: will the AI be able to change product during the game? And will it be possible to set up narratives that changes the product of an AI company?</p>

[Adam Ryland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hive" data-cite="Hive" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Question: will the AI be able to change product during the game? And will it be possible to set up narratives that changes the product of an AI company?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yes the AI will be able to change. I haven't done the narratives section yet, so I cannot confirm whether that will have product-based options.</p>

[James Casey]

<p>Will the game give you an indication of how long a change will take to come into effect and/or how significant the change is?</p><p> </p><p>

Looking at the most recognisable shift in product, you had WWF going from wholly Family Entertainment to distinctly Attitude which arguably took over two years, assuming Survivor Series 95 with Bret's table bump as the start and WMXIV with the coronation of Austin as the culmination of that change.</p><p> </p><p>

WCW's move from afterthought to powerhouse took in the cartoony Hogan era (mid 94 to late 95) before taking on elements of ECW/lucha libre with the cruiserweight influx that more-or-less coincided with the debut of Nitro, before solidifying with the debut of the nWo in mid-96 and then (to its detriment) staying pretty much as was for the next 3 years. What exactly you might call WCW's product after 1999 is for a whole other product!</p>

[Adam Ryland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="James Casey" data-cite="James Casey" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Will the game give you an indication of how long a change will take to come into effect and/or how significant the change is?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yes, it explicitly says so on screen.</p>

[Tom Bombadil]

The product system was one of my favorite things about 2016, and I was one of the weirdos playing with weird settings that didn't make sense, so this is my first time being actively bummed about an update. I imagine it'll be a net positive for most folks, I just ain't one of them.

[Hive]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="James Casey" data-cite="James Casey" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>What exactly you might call WCW's product after 1999 is for a whole other product!</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Crash TV.</p>

[esteel20]

Adam, will we still be able to run a product without a face/heel split?

[Adam Ryland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="esteel20" data-cite="esteel20" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Adam, will we still be able to run a product without a face/heel split?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yes.</p>

[edenborn]

<p>Likewise, I'm a longtime fan of the existing Product setup, someone who enjoys tinkering with the fine details. There's something immersive and fun about comparing your individual product to those other companies are running, and seeing how the fans will differentiate between them.</p><p> </p><p>

I'm willing to leave that functionality behind if this new system can still allow for the range of products I enjoy.</p><p> </p><p>

TEW 2016's Cornellverse has a number of companies running a product called "Sports Entertainment" but the differences between them can be profound. For example:</p><p> </p><p>

<strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">CGC</span></strong></p><p>

Key: Mainstream</p><p>

Heavy: None</p><p>

Medium: Traditional</p><p> </p><p>

<strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">SWF</span></strong></p><p>

Key: Mainstream</p><p>

Heavy: Traditional & Risque</p><p>

Medium: Comedy & Cult</p><p> </p><p>

Those are very different products! And workers understand that -- certain conservative characters unwilling to work for SWF because of their Risque content. I would hate for TEW 2020 to lump products like these together, homogenizing them, instead of celebrating their differences.</p><p> </p><p>

To use a real world example, there are a number of significant differences in product between Paul Heyman's ECW and WWE's ECW reboot. </p><p> </p><p>

Even when WCW hired Vince Russo to more-or-less copy WWF Attitude, there were slight but meaningful differences between what the two companies were selling.</p><p> </p><p>

I suppose what I'm saying is if TEW 2020 has preexisting products that support this wide variety of subtle and not-so-subtle differences, cool. Otherwise, I feel like we're losing functionality that helped us feel like we were really in control of what our fans were seeing.</p>

[ShaunGBD]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="esteel20" data-cite="esteel20" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Adam, will we still be able to run a product without a face/heel split?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> What I wanna know</p>

[Hive]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="edenborn" data-cite="edenborn" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Even when WCW hired Vince Russo to more-or-less copy WWF Attitude, there were slight but meaningful differences between what the two companies were selling.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The difference was risque. WCW weren't allowed much at that point.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ShaunGBD" data-cite="ShaunGBD" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>What I wanna know</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Ryland already answered that.</p>

[BiffJordan]

Excited for the latest journal entry. I do enjoy tinkering with the current settings however what you've described sounds much much better.

[Seraphina]

<p>I often play as a woman's wrestling promotion. Will there still be an option to set your "women's division" to be company wide, or with the changes to product settings are women only company's going to be relegated to some kind of niche or pigeon hole?</p><p> </p><p>

In the previous game, I could create a company that was the exact kind of company I wanted, that just <em>happened</em> to be a women's wrestling promotion. I'm a little concerned that I'm going to lose the ability to do so and that my choices now are going to be A, B, C, D or "women's company".</p><p> </p><p>

If, for example, I wanted to use one of the new product types and change it to be an entirely women's roster, would I still be able to do that? Or is an all female promotion actually going to <em>be</em> a product type?</p>

[Dross]

<p>I was hoping for the women in my roster to be ranked just like the men (it seems like it's still not possible for a woman in my women's division to be ranked as a main eventer). Wouldn't it be smarter to have the workers in a women's division always be ranked just as they would with an integrated product, with the caveat that you could set the option for inter-gender wrestling to be set to "none"?</p><p> </p><p>

Anyway, I like the changes otherwise.</p>

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="edenborn" data-cite="edenborn" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Likewise, I'm a longtime fan of the existing Product setup, someone who enjoys tinkering with the fine details. There's something immersive and fun about comparing your individual product to those other companies are running, and seeing how the fans will differentiate between them.<p> </p><p> I'm willing to leave that functionality behind if this new system can still allow for the range of products I enjoy.</p><p> </p><p> TEW 2016's Cornellverse has a number of companies running a product called "Sports Entertainment" but the differences between them can be profound. For example:</p><p> </p><p> <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">CGC</span></strong></p><p> Key: Mainstream</p><p> Heavy: None</p><p> Medium: Traditional</p><p> </p><p> <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">SWF</span></strong></p><p> Key: Mainstream</p><p> Heavy: Traditional & Risque</p><p> Medium: Comedy & Cult</p><p> </p><p> Those are very different products! And workers understand that -- certain conservative characters unwilling to work for SWF because of their Risque content. I would hate for TEW 2020 to lump products like these together, homogenizing them, instead of celebrating their differences.</p><p> </p><p> To use a real world example, there are a number of significant differences in product between Paul Heyman's ECW and WWE's ECW reboot. </p><p> </p><p> Even when WCW hired Vince Russo to more-or-less copy WWF Attitude, there were slight but meaningful differences between what the two companies were selling.</p><p> </p><p> I suppose what I'm saying is if TEW 2020 has preexisting products that support this wide variety of subtle and not-so-subtle differences, cool. Otherwise, I feel like we're losing functionality that helped us feel like we were really in control of what our fans were seeing.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> These are my exact thoughts. There have never been two products that are exactly the same in the history of wrestling. And these product delineations are what makes 2016 so vibrant for me. Just like watching the rosters change, it's a lot of fun seeing what your product looks like in 3-5 years time. For example, I'm probably going to tweak that CGC product to be a bit more daredevil flyer-friendly to help Thrill Seeker succeed when/if I decide to put him on top. I'll probably shift the product a bit less ring work focused when/if I put Gargantuan on top. </p><p> </p><p> If we're taking 5 steps back to take 1 step forward in clarity, I would just prefer we didn't.</p>

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Dross" data-cite="Dross" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I was hoping for the women in my roster to be ranked just like the men (it seems like it's still not possible for a woman in my women's division to be ranked as a main eventer). Wouldn't it be smarter to have the workers in a women's division always be ranked just as they would with an integrated product, with the caveat that you could set the option for inter-gender wrestling to be set to "none"?<p> </p><p> Anyway, I like the changes otherwise.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This has already been stated to be addressed for 2020. But until then, edit your data and set yourself as "Integrated" and just book woman vs. woman manually. It's what I've done to get around this for a couple of years now.</p>

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hive" data-cite="Hive" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The difference was risque. WCW wasn't allowed much at that point.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think the difference was more structure and competency... and talent, and writing ability, and production values, and taste... Russo spent 2 years trying to get Liz to snort enough blow to strip on PPV. It wasn't for lack of trying. This man had Ralphus wrestle in a thong.</p>

[LoganRodzen]

I really like that we're going back to how products were a pre-set list, but its much more than just a "list". The headaches I've had trying to tweak and get products exactly how I want, to be able to book the way that I want with the results that I want. This not only makes things quicker for mod makers, but it makes setting up a new promotion for a regular game much faster. The amount of time I would spend on a product before I even started the save game is ridiculous. This is a very nice change.

[Self]

<p>I don't particularly like the current product system, so I'm eager for any and all changes. </p><p> </p><p>

The problem comes down to not really knowing what any of the elements actually do, beyond changing the Definitions. I'd far prefer being able to choose those elements directly, rather than trial & error the weird buzzwords until I get what I want. Popularity over performance. Subtle gimmicks. Clean finishes. I know what those mean and can see their effect in my game. They're tangible. They current product lines mean nothing to me. Decimals and fractions in a code I can't see.</p>

[piccamo]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Dross" data-cite="Dross" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I was hoping for the women in my roster to be ranked just like the men (it seems like it's still not possible for a woman in my women's division to be ranked as a main eventer). Wouldn't it be smarter to have the workers in a women's division always be ranked just as they would with an integrated product, with the caveat that you could set the option for inter-gender wrestling to be set to "none"?<p> </p><p> Anyway, I like the changes otherwise.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The push system from 2016 is going away entirely for 2020. The wrestlers will be ranked by popularity. From <a href="http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2341965&postcount=28" rel="external nofollow">Dev Diary #26</a>:</p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So, first off, picking pushes from a list is totally gone, as are any related systems (such as auto pushing, complaints about being at the wrong push level, etc). Instead, you will now see a Perception level for each worker.<p> </p><p> The Perception level, which ranges from Major Star down to Unknown, is how the fans see the worker. It is based on the worker's popularity and current momentum in comparison to the company's popularity.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I don't see why you wouldn't be able to have women be Major Stars even if they're in their own division.</p>

[edenborn]

The difference was risque. WCW weren't allowed much at that point.

There's a lot of truth in this. However...

 

[Makhai]

I don't particularly like the current product system, so I'm eager for any and all changes.

 

The problem comes down to not really knowing what any of the elements actually do, beyond changing the Definitions. I'd far prefer being able to choose those elements directly, rather than trial & error the weird buzzwords until I get what I want. Popularity over performance. Subtle gimmicks. Clean finishes. I know what those mean and can see their effect in my game. They're tangible. They current product lines mean nothing to me. Decimals and fractions in a code I can't see.

 

I agree, but I think returning to a drop-down menu is equally as limiting as this system is confusing. And if you give me the choice of not being able to have freedom, or fighting with an imperfect system a bit. I'll always choose freedom over being put in a box.

[Historian]

I often play as a woman's wrestling promotion. Will there still be an option to set your "women's division" to be company wide, or with the changes to product settings are women only company's going to be relegated to some kind of niche or pigeon hole?

 

In the previous game, I could create a company that was the exact kind of company I wanted, that just happened to be a women's wrestling promotion. I'm a little concerned that I'm going to lose the ability to do so and that my choices now are going to be A, B, C, D or "women's company".

 

If, for example, I wanted to use one of the new product types and change it to be an entirely women's roster, would I still be able to do that? Or is an all female promotion actually going to be a product type?

 

From the way Adam was describing it, I interpreted it to mean that you set your product and level of women's wrestling independently of one another. So just like in the current game you can have whatever product you want and then be a women's only promotion, the same will exist in this game (unless I'm wildly mistaken)

[Sudo_Nym]

I often play as a woman's wrestling promotion. Will there still be an option to set your "women's division" to be company wide, or with the changes to product settings are women only company's going to be relegated to some kind of niche or pigeon hole?

 

In the previous game, I could create a company that was the exact kind of company I wanted, that just happened to be a women's wrestling promotion. I'm a little concerned that I'm going to lose the ability to do so and that my choices now are going to be A, B, C, D or "women's company".

 

If, for example, I wanted to use one of the new product types and change it to be an entirely women's roster, would I still be able to do that? Or is an all female promotion actually going to be a product type?

 

In 2016, your options for a women's wrestling were None, Division, or Entire Company, and this setting was independent of your actual product. I would be shocked if this was changed; the entry almost certainly means that the generic "Division" entry is being replaced, so now your options for women's wrestling will be None, Small, Medium, Large, or Entire Company.