The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

On 4/13/2023 at 4:19 PM, The Blonde Bomber said:

CM Punk is reportedly returning… I want Punk, Ace Steel, FTR and Larry vs Bucks, Omega, Page and Meltzer in War Games. 

If we're fantasy booking, I think the money match for All In would be Omega vs. Osprey vs. Punk for the IWGP United States and AEW World Title. Personally, I'd love to see a Ladder match for both titles. 

I'd actually have Ospreay win. Then, you could milk the Punk vs. Omega feud more. 

AEW should try to make an English star in Wembley -- just like how Vince made Bulldog in Wembly three decades earlier. Tony has to start giving Ospreay wins on Dynamite now or he'll squander that opportunity. 

[Mootinie]

English fans don't want English wrestlers booked on top just because the show is in England. If Will Ospreay was a big star here, RevPro would have booked him in larger venues than York Hall. Same for Sabre Jr., he's been booked by RevPro forever and it ain't like they book Wembley Arena and sell it out. Nobody here will even know who David Finlay is and it's not what English fans want to see, we're not a patriotic bunch that will be swinging Union Jacks above our heads and singing God Save The King.

No, AEW should be putting the "hometown hero" deal aside and keep their focus firmly on promoting the sort of show that brought them to the dance in the first place. The Young Bucks need to be in a wicked tag team match. Jamie Hayter needs somebody to have a banger against. Get Sting out there, get MJF out there. PAC should wrestle. Omega should probably wrestle a singles match, he probably does lose the IWGP United States title back to Ospreay here. I'm assuming CM Punk will face MJF between this show or All Out, maybe save that one for the States and just do a live promo in the UK. It would be cool if The Hardy Boyz could wrestle. Christian needs to be on the show. 

But they should absolutely not do a SummerSlam 1992 and have a wrestler win that they have no plans for. AEW is the brand that has sold 50,000 seats, just run a normal show, it's what all of us want to see over here.

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

39 minutes ago, Mootinie said:

English fans don't want English wrestlers booked on top just because the show is in England. If Will Ospreay was a big star here, RevPro would have booked him in larger venues than York Hall. Same for Sabre Jr., he's been booked by RevPro forever and it ain't like they book Wembley Arena and sell it out. Nobody here will even know who David Finlay is and it's not what English fans want to see, we're not a patriotic bunch that will be swinging Union Jacks above our heads and singing God Save The King.

No, AEW should be putting the "hometown hero" deal aside and keep their focus firmly on promoting the sort of show that brought them to the dance in the first place. The Young Bucks need to be in a wicked tag team match. Jamie Hayter needs somebody to have a banger against. Get Sting out there, get MJF out there. PAC should wrestle. Omega should probably wrestle a singles match, he probably does lose the IWGP United States title back to Ospreay here. I'm assuming CM Punk will face MJF between this show or All Out, maybe save that one for the States and just do a live promo in the UK. It would be cool if The Hardy Boyz could wrestle. Christian needs to be on the show. 

But they should absolutely not do a SummerSlam 1992 and have a wrestler win that they have no plans for. AEW is the brand that has sold 50,000 seats, just run a normal show, it's what all of us want to see over here.

I respectfully agree to disagree with you here. Again, I could be dead wrong, but I think the logic behind a triple threat here makes a lot of sense. 

2 years ago, I would agree with you about Ospreay. Since, Ospreay has become significantly more over than Zach Sabre Jr. in the past year or so. Tony has booked him frequently on Dynamite and he's been in a couple main events. 

Ospreay also has won a lot more in Japan than Sabre Jr. and many AEW fans watch both promotions.

I think there are a few advantages adding Ospreay to the match from a booking perspective provides:

• To me, the best move clearly would be to have Kenny Omega face CM Punk in some form at All In. 
• If Punk returns on June 17th, there won't be time to build to a Punk vs. Omega PPV until All In.
• Ideally, I'd want to milk Omega vs. Punk as much as possible. I wouldn't want their first match to be a 1 vs. 1 singles match. I also don't want either man to go over -- and preferably, not get pinned -- in their first match.
• I'd want to book something like a ladder match to prevent either Kenny or Phil from doing the job. Ospreay already has a rivalry with Kenny over the IWGP US Title in NJPW. A ladder stipulation would make sense in a champion vs. champion match.

Personally, I love to see companies re-create moments -- and Bulldog vs. Bret at Summerslam 92 will be an obvious point of comparison for the All In main event. I know some fans disagree with me on this booking maneuver. 

 

 

[The Swanton825]

7 minutes ago, ColdBloodedSausageMaker said:

Personally, I love to see companies re-create moments -- and Bulldog vs. Bret at Summerslam 92 will be an obvious point of comparison for the All In main event. I know some fans disagree with me on this booking maneuver. 

 

 

Or, they could have their own moment that doesn't make them look like a bunch of fanboys recreating an impossible to match moment in history. I mean, I guess Ospreay could go out on a crack binge and forget everything they'd planned for the match like Bulldog did, but as talented as Omega is, I don't think he could carry a strung-out addict to a 5 Star match like Bret did. Quick, let's test by putting him in a match with Jeff Hardy!

[aXminster]

The absolute biggest match they can have is CMFTR vs The Elite. But there are so much stuff in between that we don't know if it's actually happening until it does.

I'm not even a Punk fan but he's right now the most realistically option to take the company to the next level. The problem is that Tony Khan is the master in wasting opportunities, like this card that he put out after the CM Punk debut on Rampage. I'll always be salty about this.

Singles Match
Matt Hardy vs. Orange Cassidy
AEW World Tag Team Title Eliminator Tournament First Round Match
The Lucha Brothers (Penta El Zero Miedo & Rey Fenix) (w/Alex Abrahantes) vs. The Varsity Blonds (Brian Pillman Jr. & Griff Garrison) (w/Julia Hart)
Singles Match
Jamie Hayter (w/Dr. Britt Baker DMD & Rebel) vs. Red Velvet
Six Man Tag Team Match
Darby Allin, Eddie Kingston & Jon Moxley (w/Sting) vs. The Wingmen (Cezar Bononi, JD Drake & Ryan Nemeth) (w/Peter Avalon)
Six Man Tag Team Match
The Gunn Club (Austin Gunn, Billy Gunn & Colten Gunn) vs. The Factory (Aaron Solo, Nick Comoroto & QT Marshall)
Singles Match
Malakai Black vs. Brock Anderson (w/Arn Anderson)

 

Edited April 16, 2023 by aXminster

[Matt_Black]

AEW doesn't need Ospreay or Sabre, because they have plenty of English wrestlers who are already over. For starters, Hayter, Saraya, and PAC.

[Mootinie]

One of the primary differences is that WWF was running the UK regularly through to 1992 as part of their ordinary touring routine. Bulldog went over but many of those fans had been seeing WWF shows in England before that big PPV so it made sense to run with that sort of vehicle on top. They needed something to push it versus a normal WWF card of the time. It's the same for WWE with Clash at the Castle. You're already running that market so you need a little extra push to sell the PPV over the house show loops and TV you do when you come over.

For AEW, this is the first time hitting the market. The priority should be getting the talents on the card that the UK fans will want to see live and in person. Omega, The Bucks, Sting, MJF, Darby, Jungle Boy, Hayter, PAC... I can think of a few others too but that's the main thing. You don't need a big broadway or a massive story to sell this, it's done 50,000 presale tix already, just do a normal show. That is what fans want to see, not some British fairytale to make absolutely sure we're all aware that AEW is in England.

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

Agree to disagree, but that's beside the point. I definitely understand the pushback against the idea.

I think Tony could elevate Ospreay with the right story. AEW really needs stars, and Tony has an opportunity to make one in Wembley. 

I agree with your points about the booking logic behind it. I don't think even if Ospreay won the title that AEW would draw more in England.

I do think Will is over with the AEW audience -- particularly the more die-hard fans who have seen his New Japan work. 

But that's neither here nor there and overall not important.

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by ColdBloodedSausageMaker

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

4 hours ago, aXminster said:

The absolute biggest match they can have is CMFTR vs The Elite. But there are so much stuff in between that we don't know if it's actually happening until it does.

I'm not even a Punk fan but he's right now the most realistically option to take the company to the next level. The problem is that Tony Khan is the master in wasting opportunities, like this card that he put out after the CM Punk debut on Rampage. I'll always be salty about this.

Singles Match
Matt Hardy vs. Orange Cassidy
AEW World Tag Team Title Eliminator Tournament First Round Match
The Lucha Brothers (Penta El Zero Miedo & Rey Fenix) (w/Alex Abrahantes) vs. The Varsity Blonds (Brian Pillman Jr. & Griff Garrison) (w/Julia Hart)
Singles Match
Jamie Hayter (w/Dr. Britt Baker DMD & Rebel) vs. Red Velvet
Six Man Tag Team Match
Darby Allin, Eddie Kingston & Jon Moxley (w/Sting) vs. The Wingmen (Cezar Bononi, JD Drake & Ryan Nemeth) (w/Peter Avalon)
Six Man Tag Team Match
The Gunn Club (Austin Gunn, Billy Gunn & Colten Gunn) vs. The Factory (Aaron Solo, Nick Comoroto & QT Marshall)
Singles Match
Malakai Black vs. Brock Anderson (w/Arn Anderson)

 

I will be very upset if Tony goes through with the rumored CM Punk vs. Jericho program, especially if AEW headlines All In with that match.

Not only will the in-ring work be terrible, but Jericho obviously will use the program to put his needs above AEW's. 

I could definitely see Tony booking that though.

[Matt_Black]

4 hours ago, ColdBloodedSausageMaker said:

Agree to disagree, but that's beside the point. I definitely understand the pushback against the idea.

I think Tony could elevate Ospreay with the right story. AEW really needs stars, and Tony has an opportunity to make one in Wembley. 

I agree with your points about the booking logic behind it. I don't think even if Ospreay won the title that AEW would draw more in England.

I do think Will is over with the AEW audience -- particularly the more die-hard fans who have seen his New Japan work. 

But that's neither here nor there and overall not important.

 

Tony Khan doesn't have any opportunity with Will Ospreay, because Ospreay doesn't actually work for AEW. Tony Khan's priority as far as making stars should be the people he actually has employed on the roster.

[Mootinie]

Thanks to the NBA lead in, one of AEW's most watched segments in the history of the promotion is now Aussie Open defending the IWGP Tag Team titles against Best Friends. This promotion, man. They ain't even your belts and two of the four people involved in the match aren't even signed...

[Mootinie]

2 hours ago, Dalton said:

It was a good, fun match. Failing to see the issue and why it would upset a fan like you or me? Since we don't work there and the mythical casual fan being irrelevant to our enjoyment?

I'll never get enough entertainment out of people more interested in "how does this bring in new fans?" rather than "is this entertaining to me?" 

I think some people find the business end of wrestling to be interesting and I don't think it's fair to delegitimise their attitude or their approach towards wrestling. This is a community, there are always going to be different lines of discussion and since it's an internet forum engagement is a choice. If you don't want to talk about "bringing in new fans", you can always ignore that dialogue and just make your points about wrestling as an entertainment medium instead.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Mootinie
deleted an extra line break

[The Blonde Bomber]

7 hours ago, Mootinie said:

Thanks to the NBA lead in, one of AEW's most watched segments in the history of the promotion is now Aussie Open defending the IWGP Tag Team titles against Best Friends. This promotion, man. They ain't even your belts and two of the four people involved in the match aren't even signed...

Tony Khan isn’t a booker… He is a fan who started a wrestling company cause he wanted to fulfill his dream. He didn’t want anyone to book his company but him and thanks to that we have a wasted opportunity of a promotion that could’ve been real competition for WWE. We were promised a sports based presentation akin to Mid South Wrestling. We did not get that. We got a national outlaw company. Either Tony gets advice from those with experience and doesn’t take it, he doesn’t get advice because he would never take it, or told people not to give him advice cause he won’t take it. 

[Jaysin]

3 minutes ago, Dalton said:

This is the first I've heard of Tony Khan not being the booker. Who should we be angry at for bad booking then? And why should we be angry that a fan started a wrestling company? We're posting on a fantasy booking forum just like Tony Khan did decades ago.

You misread, the dude is saying TK isn't a booker as an insult. 

[Hollywood]

1 minute ago, Jaysin said:

You misread, the dude is saying TK isn't a booker as an insult. 

I am very confused. So Tony Khan is not the booker? It was very clearly stated that Tony Khan is not a booker.

[newbiezness]

Just now, Dalton said:

Who booked the show in front of 20,000 in New York City? Man that guy must be a good booker to draw that big of a crowd!

Why? Just because he drew 20000 in NYC he must be a good booker? If he has millions of dollars doesn't matter I guess. I could draw 20000 or 30000 if I had big names and millions invested in marketing and that doesn't make me a booker, not even talking about a good one.

[The Blonde Bomber]

14 minutes ago, Dalton said:

This is the first I've heard of Tony Khan not being the booker. Who should we be angry at for bad booking then? And why should we be angry that a fan started a wrestling company? We're posting on a fantasy booking forum just like Tony Khan did decades ago.

I didn’t say he wasn’t the booker. We should be angry at him cause this could be the last real chance to have started a wrestling company with a national tv show and he blew it. Even after the Wednesday Night War AEW barely ever cracks 1 million. It’s the modern TNA.

[The Blonde Bomber]

9 minutes ago, Dalton said:

Who booked the show in front of 20,000 in New York City? Man that guy must be a good booker to draw that big of a crowd!

Someone could be a good promoter which Tony Khan seems to be. But not be a good booker. Look at Vince McMahon, hell of a promoter, a bit subpar as a booker in my opinion.

[newbiezness]

3 minutes ago, The Blonde Bomber said:

I didn’t say he wasn’t the booker. We should be angry at him cause this could be the last real chance to have started a wrestling company with a national tv show and he blew it. Even after the Wednesday Night War AEW barely ever cracks 1 million. It’s the modern TNA.

I've never watched TNA and I've been watching AEW since day one. I don't see the similarities except that they made some similar failures IMO, but I think the products and ideas behind AEW and TNA are very different. And even with all the failures TK made, I think AEW is going to have success as a company in many ways TNA never did, think Wembley for example.

1 minute ago, The Blonde Bomber said:

Someone could be a good promoter which Tony Khan seems to be. But not be a good booker. Look at Vince McMahon, hell of a promoter, a bit subpar as a booker in my opinion.

Totally agree. Lets say ECW (there must be better examples but is the first that came to my mind), it's not my product but it's very difficult not to admit that Paul Heyman made much noise with limited resources. I'm very sceptical about TK or even a younger Vince achieve the same.

[The Blonde Bomber]

2 minutes ago, Dalton said:

This is exactly what I was saying earlier tbh. A lot of people really enjoy it. Just because it doesn't regularly crack 1 million doesn't mean he "blew it." I've gone to a bunch of shows and have tickets to more, because I enjoy it, as do the other 15,000 heading to the show I'm going to! 😊

Also, do you truly think MID SOUTH WRESTLING, like you're claiming AEW should have been, would be competition to WWE in 2023 like you're claiming AEW should have been? You can't have it both ways. A promotion that appeals to wrestling fans like AEW will never reach the levels of WWE. 

He has blown it. A stagnating audience shown in lower attendance figures and lower tv ratings, along with unrest in the locker room, a subpar nonsensical broadcast where you see one person one week then won’t see them again till the next full moon. FTR disappeared to Guam for the most part of last years, Starks was barely featured till feuding with Hobbs, and a recent example is El Hugo del Vikingo. Very talented acrobat if fans turned to AEW and were like i wanna see more of him. They’d be disappointed when not only is he not returning but he’s also not mentioned. 
 

In the terms of Mid South Wrestling, AEW should’ve followed being a serious wrestling promotion that strives to be real. Tony choose to make it a national Indy that will constantly laugh and make fun of the wrestling industry. It’s a different version of WWE. If from the start AEW was actually serious and logical they could’ve surpassed RAW in the ratings when they were in their lul. But instead of allowing experienced people be in control Tony took control for himself and now AEW is what it is.

[The Blonde Bomber]

8 minutes ago, newbiezness said:

I've never watched TNA and I've been watching AEW since day one. I don't see the similarities except that they made some similar failures IMO, but I think the products and ideas behind AEW and TNA are very different. And even with all the failures TK made, I think AEW is going to have success as a company in many ways TNA never did, think Wembley for example.

Totally agree. Lets say ECW (there must be better examples but is the first that came to my mind), it's not my product but it's very difficult not to admit that Paul Heyman made much noise with limited resources. I'm very sceptical about TK or even a younger Vince achieve the same.

Product wise I agree with you they’re polar opposites. I was comparing them more in terms of where they stand in the social pyramid of wrestling. They took the spot that TNA had in like 2010. The perennial number two that is especially popular among those who hate WWE.

[The Blonde Bomber]

11 minutes ago, Dalton said:

 

Also, do you truly think MID SOUTH WRESTLING, like you're claiming AEW should have been, would be competition to WWE in 2023 like you're claiming AEW should have been? 

Also I’m not just claiming that’s what AEW should’ve been. It’s what we were told AEW was gonna be.

[Dalton]

Vikingo has a match this week, just an FYI since you said he's not returning. 

[The Blonde Bomber]

1 minute ago, Dalton said:

Vikingo has a match this week, just an FYI since you said he's not returning. 

Yes after what 3 weeks? Lol that’s what I’m saying TK isn’t a booker. You don’t randomly book people every three weeks. If you showcase someone one week they get buzz you either show them off again or make some sort of mention to let fans know what’s going on with them. 

[DrawingDimes]

10 minutes ago, Dalton said:

This is exactly what I was saying earlier tbh. A lot of people really enjoy it. Just because it doesn't regularly crack 1 million doesn't mean he "blew it." I've gone to a bunch of shows and have tickets to more, because I enjoy it, as do the other 15,000 heading to the show I'm going to! 😊

Also, do you truly think MID SOUTH WRESTLING, like you're claiming AEW should have been, would be competition to WWE in 2023 like you're claiming AEW should have been? You can't have it both ways. A promotion that appeals to wrestling fans like AEW will never reach the levels of WWE. 

When daddy Khan eventually turns the free money tap off because his son has wasted hundreds of millions of his dollars without seeing a single penny in profit I'm sure "well at least a few people in the IWC really enjoyed it" will be great consolation

Thousands of people enjoyed every other wrestling promotion that ever went out of business but they were failures - as is any business that fails to generate a profit. Saying "he didnt blow it because he gets 15,000 people to go see a show" is a terrible cope when he is spending more on wages and production costs than the income from those 15k tickets can cover

I actually agree with your earlier point about how fans should judge the product rather than the financial reports, but as a fan of AEW you should be worried if your favourite company can't turn a profit. Even Shad Khan doesn't have infinite money. Eventually its either turn a profit or go bust