The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread

[The Blonde Bomber]

2 minutes ago, Dalton said:

Man you would've HATED wrestling in the period you say you enjoy so much lol. 

Dude… I’ve watched it… 

[The Blonde Bomber]

When people begin to get featured they don’t just disappear usually then return three weeks later. That may happen on the off occasion definitely will say it doesn’t never happen. But when the company has done it time and time and time again, that’s an issue.

[newbiezness]

El HIJO del Vikingo. A hell of a wrestler by the way. HIJO = SON

[Jaysin]

I will never understand people who watch a product they don't enjoy. 

If it's not for you, cool, not for you, but some of you come across as literal children and I wonder how old you really are. 

[St. Templar]

5 hours ago, Mootinie said:

I think some people find the business end of wrestling to be interesting and I don't think it's fair to delegitimise their attitude or their approach towards wrestling. This is a community, there are always going to be different lines of discussion and since it's an internet forum engagement is a choice. If you don't want to talk about "bringing in new fans", you can always ignore that dialogue and just make your points about wrestling as an entertainment medium instead.

I was about to make a point about it being an interesting business decision... 😛

St.T

 

[The Blonde Bomber]

18 minutes ago, Jaysin said:

I will never understand people who watch a product they don't enjoy. 

If it's not for you, cool, not for you, but some of you come across as literal children and I wonder how old you really are. 

Wow good on you trying to demean people because they have negative opinions on something you like. 

[Jaysin]

7 minutes ago, The Blonde Bomber said:

Wow good on you trying to demean people because they have negative opinions on something you like. 

You missed the entire point of the post. If you don't like it, don't watch it. No one has a gun to your head making you watch AEW. You're allowed to dislike it. There's plenty to dislike in every wrestling promotion, but you seemingly only enjoy complaining. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Jaysin

[The Blonde Bomber]

4 minutes ago, Jaysin said:

You missed the entire point of the post. If you don't like it, don't watch it. No one has a gun to your head making you watch AEW. You're allowed to dislike it. There's plenty to dislike in every wrestling promotion, but you seemingly only enjoy complaining. 

I do like something’s about AEW, whether it be MJF, FTR, Starks, among others. A lot of times they just poorly manage the talent. Which is why as soon Triple H took control you had people considering jumping back to WWE. It’s like a American Presidential Election picking the lesser of two evils.

[Jaysin]

2 minutes ago, The Blonde Bomber said:

I do like something’s about AEW, whether it be MJF, FTR, Starks, among others. A lot of times they just poorly manage the talent. Which is why as soon Triple H took control you had people considering jumping back to WWE. It’s like a American Presidential Election picking the lesser of two evils.

Serious suggestion: You could do what I do with most wrestling shows and wait until you can watch later and fast forward through segments that aren't holding your interest. It's made watching Raw a much nicer ride. It's not perfect obviously because you run the risk of spoilers, but being able to fast forward through stuff I don't enjoy has made wrestling much nicer 😂

[The Blonde Bomber]

4 minutes ago, Jaysin said:

Serious suggestion: You could do what I do with most wrestling shows and wait until you can watch later and fast forward through segments that aren't holding your interest. It's made watching Raw a much nicer ride. It's not perfect obviously because you run the risk of spoilers, but being able to fast forward through stuff I don't enjoy has made wrestling much nicer 😂

Oh honey I know, lol. I go on YouTube to watch a lot of times. Each time I tried watching live it’s been brutal. WWE and AEW both haven’t had a live show that held My attention all the way through in a while. Some shows that Punk was on came close but something would always end up with me giving up on the show. Now I’m just annoyed hearing reviews of the things I don’t like cause too me some of the stuff is so non sensical and there are alot of missed opportunities that make me feel bothered cause I love wrestling and now a days it’s rarely satisfying.

[milamber]

 

[milamber]

9 hours ago, The Blonde Bomber said:

Tony Khan isn’t a booker… He is a fan who started a wrestling company cause he wanted to fulfill his dream. He didn’t want anyone to book his company but him and thanks to that we have a wasted opportunity of a promotion that could’ve been real competition for WWE. We were promised a sports based presentation akin to Mid South Wrestling. We did not get that. We got a national outlaw company. Either Tony gets advice from those with experience and doesn’t take it, he doesn’t get advice because he would never take it, or told people not to give him advice cause he won’t take it. 

I've heard this argument before (on other websites as well). I'd love to see some evidence. My impression was always that hardcore fans assumed that because the Elite and Cody were involved AEW would be a New Japan / 80s Territories hybrid but I don't remember any of them promising that. Although I do think they were closer to that in the beginning. The roster was smaller, the stories more focused and wins/losses more meaningful. Now there's more sports entertainment segments, lots of dodgy finishes and too many wrestlers for the current TV time. TK copped some criticism for unfocused storylines earlier this year heading into the last PPV but I think he's put more effort into that since.

Edited April 19, 2023 by milamber

[milamber]

8 hours ago, DrawingDimes said:

When daddy Khan eventually turns the free money tap off because his son has wasted hundreds of millions of his dollars without seeing a single penny in profit I'm sure "well at least a few people in the IWC really enjoyed it" will be great consolation

Thousands of people enjoyed every other wrestling promotion that ever went out of business but they were failures - as is any business that fails to generate a profit. Saying "he didnt blow it because he gets 15,000 people to go see a show" is a terrible cope when he is spending more on wages and production costs than the income from those 15k tickets can cover

I actually agree with your earlier point about how fans should judge the product rather than the financial reports, but as a fan of AEW you should be worried if your favourite company can't turn a profit. Even Shad Khan doesn't have infinite money. Eventually its either turn a profit or go bust

The only reason AEW hasn't been profitable is because a lot of the seed money was invested into the game. Hopefully that will bear fruit over time. Ratings are consistently good in my opinion. Dynamite is frequently top 5 on cable. Rampage is handicapped by the timeslot but WB don't seem to mind. The upcoming 2 hour show and All-Access are positive signs that AEW are going to get a big increase in their TV deal. PPVs, live gates and merch sale seem to doing well.

[milamber]

1 hour ago, James The Animator said:

This wasn’t going to happen, no matter what Tony put on the show. I don’t know why people make comments like this. Television is a decaying medium, and there aren’t a spare two million fans hanging out waiting for another wrestling show.

The only way any wrestling company is beating WWE is if WWE ceases to exist.

TNA was the last company to try and compete and their best rating was 2.2 million in 2010 back when Raw was getting over 5 million. Now Raw is 2 million or less and AEW is hovering around the 900,000 mark. Pretty comparable viewership difference except AEW is a better run company (so far) with bigger financial backing so it has better long term prospects.

[The Blonde Bomber]

3 hours ago, milamber said:

I've heard this argument before (on other websites as well). I'd love to see some evidence. My impression was always that hardcore fans assumed that because the Elite and Cody were involved AEW would be a New Japan / 80s Territories hybrid but I don't remember any of them promising that. Although I do think they were closer to that in the beginning. The roster was smaller, the stories more focused and wins/losses more meaningful. Now there's more sports entertainment segments, lots of dodgy finishes and too many wrestlers for the current TV time. TK copped some criticism for unfocused storylines earlier this year heading into the last PPV but I think he's put more effort into that since.

I and as you stated others too remember being told this. I’ve looked in the ether for quotes and this is what I’ve found.

Excerpt from SE Scoops in 2019.
Khan, who grew up watching every promotion imaginable, cites Memphis Wrestling and Mid South Wrestling as particularly influential on his vision. To that end, he says that fans can expect a product with a serious bend.

"Great promotion, taking the stars seriously, the fans seriously, and treating the product as a legitimate sports property, and treating wins and losses as everything," Khan says of his vision.

 

Tony Khan on Busted Open Radio 2019

“We’re going to provide, a serious, sport-based product with the best wrestling. Something you’re going to notice more and more in our shows is they’re going to take place in and around the ring. Like, we’re not going to go out of the arena, we’re not going to spend half the show backstage in dressing rooms, or backstage choreographed segments.

[The Blonde Bomber]

1 hour ago, James The Animator said:

This wasn’t going to happen, no matter what Tony put on the show. I don’t know why people make comments like this. Television is a decaying medium, and there aren’t a spare two million fans hanging out waiting for another wrestling show.

Even with TV being a decaying medium WWE has even shown that they can grow their audience during the Triple H era. If you give people a show they want to see they will watch… This is why I never liked when people would excuse bad ratings for a wrestling show cause of sports. If they get a bad rating they need to put on a better show that can take in more audience from sports.

[DrawingDimes]

There are more television owners in the United States now than there were in the late 90s. This years Super Bowl brought in 30 million more viewers than the 1999 super bowl. In the same time period Wrestling has gone from getting 10M unique viewers (Nitro and Raw combined in 98) to 2M if we're lucky. If TV was a doomed medium you would see a similar decrease in other programming but you don't. People haven't stopped watching TV, they have stopped watching wrestling because it turned into bland sanitised slop aimed at children and smarks

If "TV is a dying medium" and "Wrestling will never grow its TV audience again" then Tony Khan would've been pretty stupid to spend hundreds of millions starting a TV wrestling show in 2019.

If it isn't a dying medium and it can grow its audience then he must be pretty stupid to have lost 200k+ viewers in the last year

[Dalton]

1 hour ago, DrawingDimes said:

There are more television owners in the United States now than there were in the late 90s. This years Super Bowl brought in 30 million more viewers than the 1999 super bowl. In the same time period Wrestling has gone from getting 10M unique viewers (Nitro and Raw combined in 98) to 2M if we're lucky. If TV was a doomed medium you would see a similar decrease in other programming but you don't. People haven't stopped watching TV, they have stopped watching wrestling because it turned into bland sanitised slop aimed at children and smarks

If "TV is a dying medium" and "Wrestling will never grow its TV audience again" then Tony Khan would've been pretty stupid to spend hundreds of millions starting a TV wrestling show in 2019.

If it isn't a dying medium and it can grow its audience then he must be pretty stupid to have lost 200k+ viewers in the last year

This  isn't true. The average TV audience dropped over 10% just last year alone. Cable television is a dying medium and quite literally all the data backs this up. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Dalton

[DrawingDimes]

7 minutes ago, Dalton said:

This is all false. 

The average TV audience dropped over 10% just last year alone. Cable television is a dying medium and quite literally all the data backs this up. 

I gave you verifiable statistics about TV ownership

I gave you verifiable statistics about Super Bowl viewership

You cant just say "This is all false" because it hurts your feelings as an AEW fan.

But as I said before, if you believe cable is dying then surely you believe it was a very stupid move from Tony Khan to spend 100s of millions of dollars setting up a show on a dying medium? right?

[The Blonde Bomber]

If you give people something to watch they will watch. WWE viewership increased year over year from 2022-2023.

[newbiezness]

I think there is more than one side to this. Some of you are saying AEW numbers are stagnated, but we can say AEW is also solidifying their position, as no single Dynamite has gone lower than 800k this year, maybe it won't happen during all 2023 for the first time.

Some British papers are saying Wembley is expected to be sold out. That would be huge, although we have to wait to see if this really happens. But that would be a major success abroad, even for WWE.

And to me you are thinking only in the US market, but we live in 2023, not 1980. If AEW can't beat WWE in USA, could they beat them in others markets?  Could you build a different business plan than being the #1 company in USA? And I'm not just saying in UK.

To me AEW is internationally well positioned (better than WWE IMO) with alliances with NJPW and AAA, but they haven't translate that to more viewers YET.

They have treated better international talent than WWE, even with the many failures TK made. But Riho was the first Women's champion, Lucha Brothers one of the first Tag Team champions, etc etc. You can build a reputation internationally but you have to be more consistent, as some of you pointed out with the case of El Hijo Del Vikingo.

When they go to England they don't need to do the same things WWE should do (put Drew McIntire vs Roman, Sheamus for Intercontinental, even Walter who is european and worked in UK for many years...) because they aren't seen as heavily american as WWE is seen abroad. Cesaro is not a jobber in AEW. Japanese wrestlers main evented and were key to Forbidden Door, the most succesful event of 2022 and probably this year. TK himself has asian origins.

In Mexico and the Latin market, although AEW have the worst spanish commentators you could possibly have, many latin fans are still interested and the general opinion is that AEW fans are more receptive to luchadors than only making some Eddie Guerrero reference and the same happens with japanese style.

To me AEW could have more than one way to be profitable, they need to find their own.

[Dalton]

1 hour ago, DrawingDimes said:

I gave you verifiable statistics about TV ownership

I gave you verifiable statistics about Super Bowl viewership

You cant just say "This is all false" because it hurts your feelings as an AEW fan.

But as I said before, if you believe cable is dying then surely you believe it was a very stupid move from Tony Khan to spend 100s of millions of dollars setting up a show on a dying medium? right?

Hurt my feelings? What in the world?

You can't just say "more people have TVs now" and call that verifiable statistics lmao. That's not a statistic. I gave you verifiable data and statistics when I said TV ratings were down over 10% in 2022 alone, continuing the trend of huge drops year over year. That's straight from Nielsen. WarnerMedia networks are actually down more than 10% in the past year. More people have TVs and they're not using them to watch cable. Those are verifiable statistics and prove what you said to be incorrect and false. 

And no, it is absolutely not stupid of Tony Khan to start a wrestling promotion and put it on national television right now. In fact, this is the best time in the history of the universe to start a wrestling company since TV rights fees have never been higher. WWE gets half of the viewers they did just a few years ago but are pulling in hundreds of millions of dollars in broadcast deals. Their current deals with Comcast and FOX dwarf their previous deals. AEW's upcoming renewals with WarnerMedia will likely include huge bumps in rights fees. There has never been a better time to put a show, especially sports, on television. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Dalton

[Dalton]

I'm also really curious where this "200k viewers lost since last year" number is coming from? They averaged about 975k this time last year and are averaging about 887k the last two months. That's not 200k if my math is right. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Dalton

[newbiezness]

10 minutes ago, Dalton said:

I'm also really curious where this "200k viewers lost since last year" number is coming from? They averaged about 975k this time last year and are averaging about 887k the last two months. That's not 200k if my math is right. 

I always read about average ratings but Idk what I'd prefer if I'm a television channel, a higher average or a lower typical deviation.

If you have some shows with 1.1M viewers and others with 600K is that better than don't have a single show with fewer than 800k like Dynamite in 2023? Obviously I'm not in the television business but I'm not sure about this and probably no one here is.

[Dalton]

8 minutes ago, newbiezness said:

I always read about average ratings but Idk what I'd prefer if I'm a television channel, a higher average or a lower typical deviation.

If you have some shows with 1.1M viewers and others with 600K is that better than don't have a single show with fewer than 800k like Dynamite in 2023? Obviously I'm not in the television business but I'm not sure about this and probably no one here is.

Hmm...that's a great question that none of us are equipped to answer unfortunately lol. The strong ad buys on Dynamite hints that the network is happy with its ROI. 

The closest we'll get to an answer is how big the AEW rights fees become, since AEW programming is such a vital component of WBD television. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Dalton