The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

17 hours ago, St. Templar said:

Punk vs. Omega doesn't need a title. It's the rare feud where having a title would actually hurt the real-life vitriol involved. On the other hand, it gives whoever wins the match an almost automatic point to say that they're the biggest guy in the promotion and "deserve" a world title shot (if it's Punk who came out on top, which would make the most sense and show that Omega cares more about the company and telling good stories than about his own ego), the addition of him never having lost is just one more reason why he should be challenging MJF for the title.

St.T

 

Can you put the belt on Punk -- or even put him in a title program -- if Punk only wrestles on the AEW Collision B-Show? AEW will struggle to draw in the Saturday time slot, even with a better quality program Collision will be lucky to hit the low end for Dynamite ratings. 

Punk has the clear advantage everywhere else, but it'd be difficult to justify giving a guy with access to just half the audience the world title.

 

[Mootinie]

I really have no idea how they're going to do 4 hours of A-show television every week when they have struggled mightily to produce 3 hours. Rampage has been borderline useless for the majority of the time it has been on the air and I would never have advocated for it to go 2 hours in its recent presentation.

I wonder if Collision is going to viewed in a similar light to Thunder in terms of stretching the deck too thin simply to meet the wants of a demanding provider. Time Warner saw WCW as this short term thing they needed to milk dry for all it was worth and I really hope WBD don't view AEW similarly. The mere idea of 5 hours of television, plus Dark, plus ROH TV... it's insane. This roster is not that deep. 

[Jaysin]

1 hour ago, Mootinie said:

I really have no idea how they're going to do 4 hours of A-show television every week when they have struggled mightily to produce 3 hours. Rampage has been borderline useless for the majority of the time it has been on the air and I would never have advocated for it to go 2 hours in its recent presentation.

I wonder if Collision is going to viewed in a similar light to Thunder in terms of stretching the deck too thin simply to meet the wants of a demanding provider. Time Warner saw WCW as this short term thing they needed to milk dry for all it was worth and I really hope WBD don't view AEW similarly. The mere idea of 5 hours of television, plus Dark, plus ROH TV... it's insane. This roster is not that deep. 

Their roster is massive. All they need is an actual booking committee instead of TK trying to do everything himself. They have more people than they can even use.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Jaysin

[Matt_Black]

4 hours ago, Jaysin said:

Their roster is massive. All they need is an actual booking committee instead of TK trying to do everything himself. They have more people than they can even use.

Definitely agree with the committee. Or at the very least, pick a division and delegate that to someone backstage, because lord knows there are a ton of people back there who have a wealth of knowledge about the business and could do some things.

[Mootinie]

Does TK do everything? It's pretty well known that Tony Schiavone and Chris Jericho are go-to dudes backstage. QT Marshall has been writing TV all along. Pat Buck and Sonjay Dutt were promoted in creative roles and they put out a press release, Jarrett has a role, they have coaches like Big Show, Mark Henry and Billy Gunn, they have Omega & The Bucks as EVP's. I seriously doubt all those dudes are just bumming around and doing nothing. I wouldn't be surprised at all if TV is now a case of Tony simply signing off on whatever they have put together.

There is a rumour that The Young Bucks have been writing TV for a while now. I'm not sure where it originates from, but the Pillars storyline doesn't seem like the sort of thing Tony would put together. It's been more sports entertainment and less wrestling supercard since Revolution.

[newbiezness]

5 hours ago, Mootinie said:

Does TK do everything? It's pretty well known that Tony Schiavone and Chris Jericho are go-to dudes backstage. QT Marshall has been writing TV all along. Pat Buck and Sonjay Dutt were promoted in creative roles and they put out a press release, Jarrett has a role, they have coaches like Big Show, Mark Henry and Billy Gunn, they have Omega & The Bucks as EVP's. I seriously doubt all those dudes are just bumming around and doing nothing. I wouldn't be surprised at all if TV is now a case of Tony simply signing off on whatever they have put together.

There is a rumour that The Young Bucks have been writing TV for a while now. I'm not sure where it originates from, but the Pillars storyline doesn't seem like the sort of thing Tony would put together. It's been more sports entertainment and less wrestling supercard since Revolution.

I don't know who is in charge, but I don't like what I'm watching right now. I think AEW has an excellent (and I really mean excellent) roster, but the product is not on that level and is worse than it was in the past. I don't think I'd be interested in AEW if this was the product they offered when the company debuted. Bandido vs El Hijo Del Vikingo is the match that I enjoyed the most in the past shows and it was for a AAA title.

I don't think is a good idea to have Omega vs CM Punk for the title at Wembley. That can be one of the matches, even the Main Event, but they don't need the title there. I still believe Darby is a good choice to be the champion at that point, with Sting by his side, but I think they are hurting Darby with the pillars story and I only see Sammy taking a big role (that is the only positive point of this story IMO as he seems to start moving on from JAS and he really needs to).

[DrawingDimes]

Let Punk book collision 👀

[aXminster]

1 hour ago, newbiezness said:

I don't know who is in charge, but I don't like what I'm watching right now. I think AEW has an excellent (and I really mean excellent) roster, but the product is not on that level and is worse than it was in the past. I don't think I'd be interested in AEW if this was the product they offered when the company debuted. Bandido vs El Hijo Del Vikingo is the match that I enjoyed the most in the past shows and it was for a AAA title.

I don't think is a good idea to have Omega vs CM Punk for the title at Wembley. That can be one of the matches, even the Main Event, but they don't need the title there. I still believe Darby is a good choice to be the champion at that point, with Sting by his side, but I think they are hurting Darby with the pillars story and I only see Sammy taking a big role (that is the only positive point of this story IMO as he seems to start moving on from JAS and he really needs to).

What I miss the most is that authentic feel, where you could sense that anything could happen. Now they just follow a script that everyone that has been watching for a minute can pinpoint what's happening next.

The format they've been puting out is like:

- A 16-18 minute match (usually involving OC), one commercial in the middle
- Backstage interview that is interrupted by whoever is being interviewed is feuding right now, goes to commercial
- A 10-12 minute match, 1 minute promo video about someone saying some things, commercial
- A squash if there's one and a JAS promo, another backstage interview that is interrupted quickly
- Another random match at the top of the hour, commercial
- Women's match starting at about 10:25 to 10:30, one commercial
- Random interview being interrupted and a match being made for Rampage, Excalibur speed reading the cards for Rampage and Dynamite
- Main event starting at around 10:48, with a commercial just four minutes later.

Lately they've been trying a different dynamic that resembles more The Attitude Era, when there are separate storylines in each show to follow the big storyline, but I personally don't like it very much.

I miss these silly things like the Dippin Dots brawl.

 

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

10 hours ago, Mootinie said:

Does TK do everything? It's pretty well known that Tony Schiavone and Chris Jericho are go-to dudes backstage. QT Marshall has been writing TV all along. Pat Buck and Sonjay Dutt were promoted in creative roles and they put out a press release, Jarrett has a role, they have coaches like Big Show, Mark Henry and Billy Gunn, they have Omega & The Bucks as EVP's. I seriously doubt all those dudes are just bumming around and doing nothing. I wouldn't be surprised at all if TV is now a case of Tony simply signing off on whatever they have put together.

There is a rumour that The Young Bucks have been writing TV for a while now. I'm not sure where it originates from, but the Pillars storyline doesn't seem like the sort of thing Tony would put together. It's been more sports entertainment and less wrestling supercard since Revolution.

On one hand, Punk is by far the biggest star in the company, and the one Warner Brothers Discovery literally bought the show for.

On the other hand, Collision is in a worse time slot and a time slot AEW fans aren't used to watching. 

Clearly, the CM Punk "brand" should be on Wednesday and the Elite "brand" should be on Saturdays. Hopefully Tony makes the right decision here.

 

[DrawingDimes]

Rampage didn't even get 300k viewers 😬

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

Tony should make Collision an ROH Show. He's already got ROH legends such as Danielson, Punk and Samoa Joe on the roster. You could give the brand some genuine prestige and history through using the old ROH catalogue footage. 

Punk making the announcement that "ROH has returned to Television" would get one hell of a pop.

Given that Punk signing was the sticking point for the new time slot, I'd assume Warner Brothers Discovery would at least consider an ROH-branded show. Punk's associated closer with ROH than AEW among their core audience right now. 

He's been more "another star" than "the defining star" in AEW, while you can argue Punk "defines" ROH to a degree. 

Similarly, AEW has missed the mark promoting the Bullet Club and Los Ingobernables brands on their show. At this point, you'd expect a genuine "faction invasion" angle to have happened, but what I've seen are a lot of false starts. 

 

[milamber]

9 hours ago, ColdBloodedSausageMaker said:

Tony should make Collision an ROH Show. He's already got ROH legends such as Danielson, Punk and Samoa Joe on the roster. You could give the brand some genuine prestige and history through using the old ROH catalogue footage. 

Punk making the announcement that "ROH has returned to Television" would get one hell of a pop.

Given that Punk signing was the sticking point for the new time slot, I'd assume Warner Brothers Discovery would at least consider an ROH-branded show. Punk's associated closer with ROH than AEW among their core audience right now. 

He's been more "another star" than "the defining star" in AEW, while you can argue Punk "defines" ROH to a degree. 

Similarly, AEW has missed the mark promoting the Bullet Club and Los Ingobernables brands on their show. At this point, you'd expect a genuine "faction invasion" angle to have happened, but what I've seen are a lot of false starts. 

 

WB don't want an ROH show. They had a chance and passed on it. They want more AEW because the brand is way more popular and doing well for them.

Although with Collision starting it would be nice to turn Rampage into ROH Rampage. Rolls off the tongue nicely. At this point I'm considering dropping ROH because it's too pricey compared to my AEW Fite sub for less content (don't care about the back catalog).

Edited May 2, 2023 by milamber

[Matt_Black]

15 hours ago, ColdBloodedSausageMaker said:

Similarly, AEW has missed the mark promoting the Bullet Club and Los Ingobernables brands on their show. At this point, you'd expect a genuine "faction invasion" angle to have happened, but what I've seen are a lot of false starts. 

 

Considering the former heavily relies on Juice Robinson, it's more like Bullet FLUB, amirite?!?

[newbiezness]

The idea of CM Punk back to ROH sounds perfect. That's the path I like the most, Punk relaunching his career in ROH, putting it over, demonstrate if he can behave there and if he can carry a promotion or not. Then he can go back to AEW and have the Punk vs Omega and The Youngbucks storyline. I don't think you need to do it right now, it was infamous enough for people not to forget if it happens in 2024.

Punk turned heads to AEW but then what? Matches where he was slow and the best you can say is that MJF became well known after their feud, I still think he did more harm with injuries and the 'grand finale' after All Out, maybe the worse chapter in AEW history.

I don't know if having Punk in Collision is what WB want or how AEW tried to sell the show, but if I were them I won't trust CM Punk right now to carry the show. 

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

8 hours ago, milamber said:

WB don't want an ROH show. They had a chance and passed on it. They want more AEW because the brand is way more popular and doing well for them.

Although with Collision starting it would be nice to turn Rampage into ROH Rampage. Rolls off the tongue nicely. At this point I'm considering dropping ROH because it's too pricey compared to my AEW Fite sub for less content (don't care about the back catalog).

I think an ROH show would be a much better fit on the upcoming A-show than a new "AEW brand" would. For one, the show would start with its own rules and own titles recognized on AEW television and distinct from the other AEW programming. A Saturday ROH show would feel way more important than the fourth and fifth hours of AEW Programming.

Given Punk was the sticking point for the first hour, I'd assume Tony could get somewhere with a big push for Punk. 

Tony could address the poor ROH brand recognition by booking the ROH Champions strongly. If nothing else, Tony could have an NWO-style invasion angle with Punk, Joe and Danielson (among others) beating established AEW champions before "taking over" programming. 

For example, I'd have Danielson turn on Moxley and turn the BCC into an ROH faction. Simplify and update the current ROH logo so it stands out a little more (and you can spray paint stuff with it easier). 

That would go a lot farther than negotiations about the current ROH product would. 

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

Tony's booking is the problem here. He's treated the ROH guys like jobbers and they weren't taken seriously on the air. He should've never let Chris Jericho have the belt or degrade the brand, for example. 

If the ROH guys were treated seriously, WB would be much more open to ROH Programming. But right now, the ROH Titles are a joke.

Which sucks, because AEW has signed the right talent to make ROH mean something.

[Mootinie]

WB were not interested in ROH because shows that get cancelled generally aren't very appealing to a TV exec of any stripe. It's why many cancelled shows just wind up on Netflix and, yeah, sometimes they get a shot in the arm and become something awesome. Cobra Kai is great, well done to YouTube for dropping it. But there's also a reason that Netflix is the only destination willing to take them on. ROH was a media property being dumped by Sinclair. Nobody was going to touch it just because of the optics involved. It's a tainted brand, it's somebody else's garbage. It's a different man's seconds and it always will be, you just don't shake that.

IMPACT have their spot on AXS TV only because Anthem own the network and the promotion. If it wasn't for that particular intervention, you would be witnessing the same deal with them. Spike cancelled them, nobody will go near them now. They'd probably be streaming on Twitch or on FITE or on IWTV if it wasn't for Anthem purchasing AXS. Execs don't want cancelled shows and second-hand properties. Hannibal was bloody brilliant but we only got 3 seasons and it was cancelled after its second season when the finale was a legit 10/10 blockbuster of an episode. The ratings were crap, it's a cancelled show, it doesn't even matter that it's flipping awesome because nobody wanted to touch it.

But here's the deal with CM Punk: he has a contract. He was always coming back. Capitalists are not going to pay you to not work. Not unless we're in the midst of a pandemic but I digress. I would guess that the Khans spoke to Punk about a buyout, the dollar figure was too high to be justified and it probably came with all sorts of conditions like withholding a no compete. Essentially, it was pay me my whole contract so I can leave and go elsewhere and get paid or let me come back and work for you and do business. I'm not sure Tony had much option. Imagine what other dudes would pull this crap and try and get a buyout if they wanted out. Andrade? Miro? It's a bad precedent. Punk has to come back and they have to make it work. If they think Collision is the avenue then that's that, we'll see how it goes I guess...

Edited May 2, 2023 by Mootinie

[newbiezness]

58 minutes ago, Mootinie said:

WB were not interested in ROH because shows that get cancelled generally aren't very appealing to a TV exec of any stripe. It's why many cancelled shows just wind up on Netflix and, yeah, sometimes they get a shot in the arm and become something awesome. Cobra Kai is great, well done to YouTube for dropping it. But there's also a reason that Netflix is the only destination willing to take them on. ROH was a media property being dumped by Sinclair. Nobody was going to touch it just because of the optics involved. It's a tainted brand, it's somebody else's garbage. It's a different man's seconds and it always will be, you just don't shake that.

IMPACT have their spot on AXS TV only because Anthem own the network and the promotion. If it wasn't for that particular intervention, you would be witnessing the same deal with them. Spike cancelled them, nobody will go near them now. They'd probably be streaming on Twitch or on FITE or on IWTV if it wasn't for Anthem purchasing AXS. Execs don't want cancelled shows and second-hand properties. Hannibal was bloody brilliant but we only got 3 seasons and it was cancelled after its second season when the finale was a legit 10/10 blockbuster of an episode. The ratings were crap, it's a cancelled show, it doesn't even matter that it's flipping awesome because nobody wanted to touch it.

But here's the deal with CM Punk: he has a contract. He was always coming back. Capitalists are not going to pay you to not work. Not unless we're in the midst of a pandemic but I digress. I would guess that the Khans spoke to Punk about a buyout, the dollar figure was too high to be justified and it probably came with all sorts of conditions like withholding a no compete. Essentially, it was pay me my whole contract so I can leave and go elsewhere and get paid or let me come back and work for you and do business. I'm not sure Tony had much option. Imagine what other dudes would pull this crap and try and get a buyout if they wanted out. Andrade? Miro? It's a bad precedent. Punk has to come back and they have to make it work. If they think Collision is the avenue then that's that, we'll see how it goes I guess...

If WB were not interested in ROH is basically because they don't have a clue about wrestling industry. If you explain that there is a reason to put CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Adam Cole, Jay Lethal, Samoa Joe... in a ROH show because they have already worked there and you can tell the story of how big stars go back to a small company and make it great because they feel it belongs to them and if announce all those workers are going to be there the perception of the fans about ROH change completely and automatically.

Everyone, maybe not only AEW fans, is going to give it a shot and you can have a different concept in ROH, not necessarily the same as AEW, WB could use that to fit to a different day, etc. ROH already has its own belts and although AEW didn't book them perfectly I don't think Jericho or Claudio couldn't harm any further the titles of a cancelled show. You have to appeal to the originals, not to the last names before or after AEW purchase.

If you prefer a third, fourth, fifth... IDK... AEW branded show, where nobody knows (even if they tell before it starts) who is going to be there except the one or two big names they announce first, which titles are going to be there each week, etc. than try to do something new that has little margin to do worse and much margin to improve, then you aren't a TV exec and an automated machine or a money can do the same you do, just repeating and repeating the same formula, without taking any risks or decisions that matter.

Edited May 2, 2023 by newbiezness

[Dalton]

20 hours ago, DrawingDimes said:

Rampage didn't even get 300k viewers 😬

I know you're trolling for some reason, just wanna point out to everyone else that this show aired at 6:30ET on Friday, after being advertised for 5:30ET, both of which are not the Rampage timeslot. Funny how you left that part out though

Also, All In has sold 35,000 today in just the pre-sale. Safe to say that any previous estimates should be thrown out the window. Incredible success. 

[DrawingDimes]

16 minutes ago, Dalton said:

I know you're trolling for some reason, just wanna point out to everyone else that this show aired at 6:30ET on Friday, after being advertised for 5:30ET, both of which are not the Rampage timeslot. Funny how you left that part out though

Also, All In has sold 35,000 today in just the pre-sale. Safe to say that any previous estimates should be thrown out the window. Incredible success. 

how is discussing AEW in the AEW thread trolling? why do you get so defensive about a company you have zero stake in? truly bizarre behaviour and only AEW "fans" exhibit it.

35,000 out of a 100k capacity? D-VON GET THE TARP!

 

[Big Roguey]

Dimes, knock it off. Not the first time you've taken potshots at posters. Take this as a warning and next time it happens it's a timeout of some description.

Everyone else, take the above as a warning and play nice. I'm sure there will invariably be some form of ticket sales discourse based off of the All In ticket sales, keep it civil.

[Jaysin]

23 minutes ago, DrawingDimes said:

how is discussing AEW in the AEW thread trolling? why do you get so defensive about a company you have zero stake in? truly bizarre behaviour and only AEW "fans" exhibit it.

35,000 out of a 100k capacity? D-VON GET THE TARP!

 

ROHbots were infinitely worse than any AEW fan. 

They sold 35,000 tickets in the PRE SALE. Tickets aren't even being sold yet other than the pre sale. 

I doubt they'll sell out the arena, but 35k tickets in a pre sale is rather impressive imo 

[newbiezness]

Just now, Jaysin said:

ROHbots were infinitely worse than any AEW fan. 

They sold 35,000 tickets in the PRE SALE. Tickets aren't even being sold yet other than the pre sale. 

I doubt they'll sell out the arena, but 35k tickets in a pre sale is rather impressive imo 

You don't think they'll sell out the arena? They will. We will fill Wembley even if the booking is not great. I´m sure of that. Europe, Europe!!! ✌️

[Croquemitaine]

2 hours ago, Mootinie said:

 I would guess that the Khans spoke to Punk about a buyout, the dollar figure was too high to be justified and it probably came with all sorts of conditions like withholding a no compete. Essentially, it was pay me my whole contract so I can leave and go elsewhere and get paid or let me come back and work for you and do business.

That was my guess as well.

My answer, if I was in Tony's place, would be to bring Punk to Dynamite every week (once he was medically cleared) and then just not put him on TV. What I don't do is let him sit at home and collect a fat cheque. What I don't do is give him free time to do podcasts and visit everybody else's show while he's on my dime.

If stewing in catering for a few months doesn't make Punk reconsider accepting a mutual termination, then I'd start jobbing him out. On Dark. From there, we escalate to, I don't know... maybe having FTR shave his back?

I might end up having to pay his whole contract in the end, but he's not going to be having any fun.

Of course, if I was Tony I wouldn't have sat there with a stupid look on my face while Punk, sitting right beside me, buried my company, my top championship, and the core of my roster in a press conference. I'd have cut his mic, told him he was fired (for cause) on the spot, picked up the belt, and walked out. Yes, there'd be a price to pay for that, but doing any kind of business with Punk now is equivalent to announcing to the world that you have no balls. Ultimately, the ratings hit for canning Punk* pales in comparison to the credibility hit for letting him dump on your entire promotion.

 

* I'll also point out that Dynamite ratings held firm with no drop for about six weeks after Punk was suspended. Personally, I believe that the subsequent ratings drop can be attributed to the declining quality of the booking and storylines rather than Punk's absence.

 

[DrawingDimes]

1 hour ago, Big Roguey said:

Dimes, knock it off. Not the first time you've taken potshots at posters. Take this as a warning and next time it happens it's a timeout of some description.

Everyone else, take the above as a warning and play nice. I'm sure there will invariably be some form of ticket sales discourse based off of the All In ticket sales, keep it civil.

Warning for being critical of AEW in an AEW discussion thread? Lmao

Interestingly I was also critical of last nights RAW in the WWE discussion thread but no warning for that one

How strange

1 hour ago, Jaysin said:

They sold 35,000 tickets in the PRE SALE

Most AEW fans are the type of obsessed cultists with nothing else going on in their lives that were refreshing Ticketmaster within 5 minutes of the pre-sale. I honestly think the bulk of the tickets they will sell have already been sold. I'm so confident about this that I will delete my account if they sell over 60,000 

 

1 hour ago, newbiezness said:

We will fill Wembley

Do you personally work for AEW? Who is "we"? This is the exact type of cultism I am talking about. I have never in my life seen a WWE fan refer to thar company as "we" but it's a daily occurance with AEWtists

Genuinely strange behaviour