The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread

[Dalton]

16 hours ago, ColdBloodedSausageMaker said:

At the end of the day, we all want AEW to succeed, we just think different means will achieve that end.

They're already a success.

They're in their fifth year of existence, just sold 60,000 tickets and counting to a show three PPVs away, and are about to have yet another weekly series on national television, on top of likely getting a huge raise from a happy broadcast partner who can't stop giving them more and more airtime.

--

There is this aura in every wrestling community about AEW constantly being days away from death or on the verge of failure when every conceivable metric states otherwise. 

WCW comparisons are pointless. MJF and Sammy are not David Arquette and Jeff Jarrett. Tony Khan  booking is not Vince Russo booking. The only comparison there is that its not WWE. 

It's time for people to just accept AEW as a regular wrestling company and critique them like one, instead of thinking they're always at death's door and one move away from going under.

That mindset is what drives much of the negativity around AEW discourse. Hyperbole inevitably leads to arguments.

[The Swanton825]

2 minutes ago, Self said:

I admittedly do get a kick out of watching rich people fail. Either billionaire is fine by me. 

The thing is though, just like when Ted Turner failed, the billionaires will barely feel it while the wrestling scene overall gets worse as the survivor pulls the shattered remains into his corporate borg of homogenized wrestling.

[The Blonde Bomber]

Good on AEW for getting such a big audience in England. A piece of me isn’t surprised just cause of the novelty it’s presenting. The first time AEW is going and for a huge show.

 

I find it interesting that the tickets for Double or Nothing have been selling slow. Only around 6800 sold. Perhaps they need to focus on more international events as a way to get bigger houses before they return to often ran areas in the US. 
 

Im excited for Collision and what’s gonna happen with Punks return as well. It’ll be the first time I watch a full episode of AEW in awhile. Hoping some sort of different presentation. Don’t want to see Dynamite hours 3-4. That’s one problem WWE ran into as they grew RAW and Smackdown are so homogenized. Even the ropes match. Hopefully AEW doesn’t follow in their footsteps.

Edited May 8, 2023 by The Blonde Bomber

[newbiezness]

On 5/9/2023 at 12:16 AM, The Blonde Bomber said:

Good on AEW for getting such a big audience in England. A piece of me isn’t surprised just cause of the novelty it’s presenting. The first time AEW is going and for a huge show.

 

I find it interesting that the tickets for Double or Nothing have been selling slow. Only around 6800 sold. Perhaps they need to focus on more international events as a way to get bigger houses before they return to often ran areas in the US. 
 

Im excited for Collision and what’s gonna happen with Punks return as well. It’ll be the first time I watch a full episode of AEW in awhile. Hoping some sort of different presentation. Don’t want to see Dynamite hours 3-4. That’s one problem WWE ran into as they grew RAW and Smackdown are so homogenized. Even the ropes match. Hopefully AEW doesn’t follow in their footsteps.

I don't want to say that I told you so, but...

On 4/19/2023 at 9:09 PM, newbiezness said:

I think there is more than one side to this. Some of you are saying AEW numbers are stagnated, but we can say AEW is also solidifying their position, as no single Dynamite has gone lower than 800k this year, maybe it won't happen during all 2023 for the first time.

Some British papers are saying Wembley is expected to be sold out. That would be huge, although we have to wait to see if this really happens. But that would be a major success abroad, even for WWE.

And to me you are thinking only in the US market, but we live in 2023, not 1980. If AEW can't beat WWE in USA, could they beat them in others markets?  Could you build a different business plan than being the #1 company in USA? And I'm not just saying in UK.

To me AEW is internationally well positioned (better than WWE IMO) with alliances with NJPW and AAA, but they haven't translate that to more viewers YET.

They have treated better international talent than WWE, even with the many failures TK made. But Riho was the first Women's champion, Lucha Brothers one of the first Tag Team champions, etc etc. You can build a reputation internationally but you have to be more consistent, as some of you pointed out with the case of El Hijo Del Vikingo.

When they go to England they don't need to do the same things WWE should do (put Drew McIntire vs Roman, Sheamus for Intercontinental, even Walter who is european and worked in UK for many years...) because they aren't seen as heavily american as WWE is seen abroad. Cesaro is not a jobber in AEW. Japanese wrestlers main evented and were key to Forbidden Door, the most succesful event of 2022 and probably this year. TK himself has asian origins.

In Mexico and the Latin market, although AEW have the worst spanish commentators you could possibly have, many latin fans are still interested and the general opinion is that AEW fans are more receptive to luchadors than only making some Eddie Guerrero reference and the same happens with japanese style.

To me AEW could have more than one way to be profitable, they need to find their own.

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by newbiezness

[Jaysin]

Don Callis rules. 

[milamber]

- Fenix vs Claudio was great. Popped for the Alpamere Waterslide.
- Seeding Punk's return with footage.
- Miro ready to play ball. Rosa back from injury soon.
- Mark Briscoe on a Pole.
- This storyline is going to lead to Jericho being banished from Dynamite and taking credit for Collision.
- OC (c) vs Garcia was great.
- Christian getting mega heat.
- Anna vs Julia (No Holds Barred) was solid. Looked like Julia was legit hurt.
- Best Amigos vs House of Black (c) was good. Interesting lighting.
- Aussie Aussie Aussie.
- Great pillars promo videos.
- Mox vs Kenny (Cage Match) was my MOTN. Don noooooo!

Edited May 11, 2023 by milamber

[falling_star]

Don Callis is such a natural heel, it makes sense to take him away from The Elite's act when they are made out to be the babyfaces.

[Jaysin]

4 hours ago, falling_star said:

Don Callis is such a natural heel, it makes sense to take him away from The Elite's act when they are made out to be the babyfaces.

He's just so naturally easy to hate. He comes across like a crooked used car salesman in the best way possible. 

[milamber]

2 hours ago, Jaysin said:

He's just so naturally easy to hate. He comes across like a crooked used car salesman in the best way possible. 

Don Callis + Mark Sterling = Saul Goodman

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

On 4/19/2023 at 2:09 PM, newbiezness said:

I think there is more than one side to this. Some of you are saying AEW numbers are stagnated, but we can say AEW is also solidifying their position, as no single Dynamite has gone lower than 800k this year, maybe it won't happen during all 2023 for the first time.

Some British papers are saying Wembley is expected to be sold out. That would be huge, although we have to wait to see if this really happens. But that would be a major success abroad, even for WWE.

And to me you are thinking only in the US market, but we live in 2023, not 1980. If AEW can't beat WWE in USA, could they beat them in others markets?  Could you build a different business plan than being the #1 company in USA? And I'm not just saying in UK.

To me AEW is internationally well positioned (better than WWE IMO) with alliances with NJPW and AAA, but they haven't translate that to more viewers YET.

They have treated better international talent than WWE, even with the many failures TK made. But Riho was the first Women's champion, Lucha Brothers one of the first Tag Team champions, etc etc. You can build a reputation internationally but you have to be more consistent, as some of you pointed out with the case of El Hijo Del Vikingo.

When they go to England they don't need to do the same things WWE should do (put Drew McIntire vs Roman, Sheamus for Intercontinental, even Walter who is european and worked in UK for many years...) because they aren't seen as heavily american as WWE is seen abroad. Cesaro is not a jobber in AEW. Japanese wrestlers main evented and were key to Forbidden Door, the most succesful event of 2022 and probably this year. TK himself has asian origins.

In Mexico and the Latin market, although AEW have the worst spanish commentators you could possibly have, many latin fans are still interested and the general opinion is that AEW fans are more receptive to luchadors than only making some Eddie Guerrero reference and the same happens with japanese style.

To me AEW could have more than one way to be profitable, they need to find their own.

I worry that Tony hasn't given consistent pushes to a lot of the international talent. Outside of Omega, none have really been presented as a "title threat" -- and Omega hasn't wrestled much in Japan in a while now. 

Takeshita, Bandido, and Vikingo all could be big stars, but they've been doing a lot of losing on TV. Even when involved in storylines, they aren't presented as serious -- for example, when MJF got to dress down Takeshita on Dynamite.

That was a consistent problem with Forbidden Door -- guys like Okada would show up out of the blue a week or two before hand and the crowd as a whole wouldn't be invested in the NJPW talent.

There's definitely an opportunity to draw houses abroad -- like late 90s WCW did in Australia or TNA did in the UK -- but AEW still needs to invest in shows abroad significantly.

In Japan and Mexico specifically, AEW needs to start pushing Japanese stars. 

[Eternal Phoenix]

Takeshita and Bandido has only been signed for about six months. As far as I know, Hijo del Vikingo isn't signed at all. Just a loaner because of the good relationship AEW and AAA have. Takeshita's been in high profile matches with top stars and made to look good. This is starting to happen with Bandido (I think he had a visa issue or something that prevented him from working earlier?). Vikingo had his debut match not two months ago, and is again, not actually signed as far as I know.  For me at least, as a long time watcher, the first two are clearly being worked into the rotation of guys being used. With a third show possibly on the horizon and even a pseudo brand split, there will definitely been more room for guys to shine on TV.

 

Now if you want to talk about what's going with say, Rush, well...Andrade's incident and injury have clearly shafted him, as plans were quite obviously changed from whatever Los Ingobernales was going to get up to. Preston Vance not blossoming as expected has also likely hurt him. TK likes actions, and being down a faction mate with the other being kind of mid makes it rough to give a push one guy. Still. Why Rush hasn't showed up as a challenger for the All-Atlantic/International or TNT title is a mystery to me. Aside from the "Rush never wants to lose" thing, maybe? I dunno.

Edited May 12, 2023 by Eternal Phoenix

[Matt_Black]

What I was always curious about the AAA relationship is why they haven't really used it for the women's division. When they were feeding people to Britt and now Jade, why not bring in some people from AAA. Do the video package thing to get fans familiar and just generally treat them as a big deal. Makes a lot more impact than Jade beating Marina Shafir or Kiera Hogan or the umpteenth local talent.

[Matt_Black]

Watching Rampage and listening to the crowd pop for the Acclaimed and in particular Billy Gunn, who prior to AEW could have best been described as having been moderately over as a part of DX, and I'm mystified by the assertion that "AEW doesn't make stars".

[newbiezness]

4 minutes ago, Matt_Black said:

Watching Rampage and listening to the crowd pop for the Acclaimed and in particular Billy Gunn, who prior to AEW could have best been described as having been moderately over as a part of DX, and I'm mystified by the assertion that "AEW doesn't make stars".

Britt Baker. She was extremely over in 2021 after the Lights Out match vs Thunder Rosa, voted best match of the year, best female wrestler, etc. Nobody knew who she was before AEW.

[Matt_Black]

AEW wants us to think Britt is a star, I'll grant you that. And yes, the matches with Rosa were very good. She was also in the Tooth & Nail match, which is considered one of the worst matches in AEW history.

[newbiezness]

1 hour ago, Matt_Black said:

AEW wants us to think Britt is a star, I'll grant you that. And yes, the matches with Rosa were very good. She was also in the Tooth & Nail match, which is considered one of the worst matches in AEW history.

Many stars have been in some of the worst matches I've ever seen. We know that in ring quality and star power are very different things. Britt was a star for some time, I'm not sure she still can be considered as a star, although she is popular, she is well known and how many AEW originals can say that? More people know Britt than Jungle Boy, just a metric, 350k followers in twitter for Britt 150k for Jungle Boy. Jamie Hayter, great in ring, but if she wasn't with Britt I don't think she'd ever become the champion.

[Matt_Black]

6 hours ago, newbiezness said:

 Jamie Hayter, great in ring, but if she wasn't with Britt I don't think she'd ever become the champion.

If Britt wasn't dating Adam Cole, I don't think she'd have been pushed as much as she has been.

[Dalton]

2 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

If Britt wasn't dating Adam Cole, I don't think she'd have been pushed as much as she has been.

That just isn't true. She regularly gets the loudest reaction of any woman on the show, only occasionally being beaten out by her closest ally. She's a star for AEW. Being part of a bad pandemic-era cinematic match does not negate her popularity. 

If she was overpushed or not good, she wouldn't be as beloved as she is by the fanbase, and wouldn't have organically turned face like she did.

[newbiezness]

3 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

If Britt wasn't dating Adam Cole, I don't think she'd have been pushed as much as she has been.

In AEW Adam Cole hasn't been as important as in NXT yet (I like Adam Cole and I still think this can change in the future) and he came to the company at a time where Britt was extremely over. It was more Adam Cole the boyfriend of Britt Baker than the other way. The big push for Britt was when Adam Cole was still in NXT.

[The Swanton825]

9 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

If Britt wasn't dating Adam Cole, I don't think she'd have been pushed as much as she has been.

But weren't they pushing her hard from her debut? So, what? Did they give her that push solely to lure her boyfriend in two years later? I'm not a big fan of Britt, but that seems kind of insulting.

[Matt_Black]

Maybe you're right. For any accusations of nepotism to be true, Britt and Adam would need buddies who are Executive Vice Presidents, and that's... OH.

At best Britt is okay in the ring, but there are better workers than her. Her much-vaunted promo skills are vastly overrated. I can't say there are better promos in the women's division, because honestly AEW doesn't let any other woman have enough promo time on a consistent basis to actually gauge.

[aXminster]

Last week's Dynamite was pretty good even though I completely forgot to watch lol

Next Wednesday is the WBD Upfronts and it could end up being the most important day in their history. Possible new deal for Dynamite + new slot for Collision + streaming deal with MAX.

[The Swanton825]

22 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

Maybe you're right. For any accusations of nepotism to be true, Britt and Adam would need buddies who are Executive Vice Presidents, and that's... OH.

At best Britt is okay in the ring, but there are better workers than her. Her much-vaunted promo skills are vastly overrated. I can't say there are better promos in the women's division, because honestly AEW doesn't let any other woman have enough promo time on a consistent basis to actually gauge.

If you're counting the joshis they rarely use sure. Outside of that, you have: Jamie Hayter, Kris Statlander (for the five weeks a year she isn't hurt), Ruby Soho, Toni Storm and the ticking time bomb that is Saraya. Like it or not, their women's division is poorly booked enough that Britt has become its Randy Orton. Bland in the ring, meh promos, but consistent enough to be considered a reliable drought player.
EDIT: Totally forgot Mercedes Martinez still wrestles from time to time! Put her up there in the better workers category too

Edited May 15, 2023 by The Swanton825

[newbiezness]

3 hours ago, The Swanton825 said:

If you're counting the joshis they rarely use sure. Outside of that, you have: Jamie Hayter, Kris Statlander (for the five weeks a year she isn't hurt), Ruby Soho, Toni Storm and the ticking time bomb that is Saraya. Like it or not, their women's division is poorly booked enough that Britt has become its Randy Orton. Bland in the ring, meh promos, but consistent enough to be considered a reliable drought player.
EDIT: Totally forgot Mercedes Martinez still wrestles from time to time! Put her up there in the better workers category too

First of all I think Britt could make an impact anywhere. To say that Britt is meh at promos IDK, what is Becky Lynch with the mic then? Can she even speak without babbling? She is not the best in ring, again is Becky the best in ring? Because Becky is the best paid female wrestler in the world and I haven't seen any reason that makes her better than Britt except have been given the "The Man" gimmick in the perfect year because of everything that happened outside of wrestling. Nothing against Becky, another one Bianca Belair. Ok this one is good in ring, she has strenght, physique... but does she have more charisma than Britt? Does she have better mic than Britt? I doubt it. And I'm comparing with top WWE stars.

About the roster. Apart from the joshis. Thunder Rosa a hell of a wresler. Penelope Ford is good. Athena is good. Willow, Red Velvet, can become good workers if there's a path for them. They all have some flaws? Yes, but are Shotzi, Zelina Vega, Piper Niven, Tamina and many others better? Jade is not good in ring, Ok but I see how she is improving and she has the looks and I think she can do the work in short promos. There are maybe 5 or 6 female wrestlers in WWE that really could make an impact in AEW. I don't buy this argument that the problem with the women's division is the roster.

Edited May 16, 2023 by newbiezness

[Matt_Black]

Oh, I totally agree that Biance Belair is not nearly as good as the WWE would have you believe. The AEW women's roster is fine. It's just that AEW has no intention of giving any of them any appreciable spotlight outside of a few names. You'll note that they always seem to find time for multi-man tag matches and battle royals for the men, yet the women usually get one single match per show. To be fair, AEW has gotten slightly better at this, giving us a few more tag and trios matches for the division on TV, but it still doesn't match what the men's division gets.