Replicating quick rises to man event

[redhilleagle]

How do replicate the real life cases of workers like The Undertaker or Razor Ramon? In that, I mean they come into the WWF and almost immediately they are in the main event / top upper midcard. In TEW, there's no way a "newbie" would come in and almost immediately start beating main eventers (without upsetting them, of course)

 

I have a worker in my game who has "it" but his pop is only setting him at mid card, and I'd like him to reach the top quite quickly.

[piccamo]

How do replicate the real life cases of workers like The Undertaker or Razor Ramon? In that, I mean they come into the WWF and almost immediately they are in the main event / top upper midcard. In TEW, there's no way a "newbie" would come in and almost immediately start beating main eventers (without upsetting them, of course)

 

I have a worker in my game who has "it" but his pop is only setting him at mid card, and I'd like him to reach the top quite quickly.

 

Put him in storylines with main eventers and have him lose matches, but kept strong and major success for angles. That would be like the Undertaker beating down a fan favorite, but losing a casket match. Also consider pairing him with an upper midcard or main event tag team partner (like Jason Jordan being paired with Seth Rollins or Braun Strowman as part of the Wyatt Family).

[shamelessposer]

Like piccamo said, you can put a new guy into high profile angles and tag team matches. Doing this stuff will get your guy to a "natural" push around the lower midcard within a couple of weeks of shows, if he wasn't there already. From there it's pretty easy to move a new guy up the card with a higher profile wins so long as you're not afraid of hurting the feelings of a couple of midcarders. Even doing this, though, it might take three to four months before one of your top guys is willing to lose to your new Razor Ramon without complaint. That isn't necessarily unrealistic, though, and your established stars may either need to just tough it out or accept a bonus after the show in exchange for a hit to their popularity.

[redhilleagle]

I can live with 3-4 months, sounds realistic enough, thanks for the advice guys.

[redhilleagle]

On the flip-side, I have a number of aging wrestlers who I'd like to be replaced in the Main Event by my younger up and coming talent, but they never seem to drop down the card, no matter what I do (have them lose a lot on TV and PPV, etc), I also don't want to upset them with poor booking too often, any advice on this one?

[shamelessposer]

On the flip-side, I have a number of aging wrestlers who I'd like to be replaced in the Main Event by my younger up and coming talent, but they never seem to drop down the card, no matter what I do (have them lose a lot on TV and PPV, etc), I also don't want to upset them with poor booking too often, any advice on this one?

 

Popularity has a kind of momentum to it. Once a guy is popular enough he gets to be kind of bulletproof. There's a couple of ways to deal with this:

 

1.) You can have your aging stars lose a bunch of matches to younger guys, but this will probably kill their morale. Aging main eventers tend to have a lot of Respect, which means that their bad morale can have a larger than normal impact on your backstage environment. This is less than ideal.

 

2.) You can let their contracts run out. If you're just looking to stop using your aging stars, maybe just send them on vacation until their contracts come up. The downside here, obviously, is that it gives another promotion a chance to pick them up down the road.

 

3.) Ignore the listed push for your aging stars and find alternative uses for them. Stick a guy with good mic skills in a weekly interview show or give him a spot on the announce team. Take a ring general and stick him in a tag team with a rookie who needs to work on the basics, then protect him by letting the rookie eat the pin.

 

4.) Send your older stars down to a development territory as trainers or even as bookers. Some have the personality to enjoy this and others don't.

 

5.) As a comedy option, go full the carnie hell show route with burials and screwjobs to give wins to your new guys at the expense of your older talent, turning your entire locker room against you and getting the downsides of all of the above listed options.

[TeemuFoundation]

Also, sometimes you just gotta deal with upsetting people. It's only realistic, honestly. If you watch shoot interviews, you'll notice that no one was ever happy and everyone was always mishandled by da management. It's always "I never should have lost to that guy, I never should have lost to this guy". It's part of being a booker, I would assume; everybody always hating you.

[Self]

I think you're too hung up on the "Auto-Push" feature. You can push guys however you want. Just because the game suggests Matt Hardy as an upper midcard act doesn't mean you can't use him as an occasional job guy. People are going to get upset, but that's business.

 

I doubt Brock Lesnar auto-pushed too highly in his first year in WWE. They chose to push him as an unstoppable killing machine despite his low popularity. I'm sure plenty of folks complained. WWE pushed him anyway and eventually he built that popularity. I'd say build guys momentum on job guys first, before feeding them veterans. If people are going to complain, it's best to get the most out of it that you can. Decisive PPV wins with maximum momentum.

[BuddyGarner]

If you lose to someone lower pop than you always seem to lose at least 2 pop at an event even if you are kept strong(pop changes are lower for touring and TV shows).

 

So to job someone down just have them lose to people of lower popularity even if it's close.

 

You can't really replicate quick rises to the main event. IF they have around B- charisma or greater they can use the dominate note to gain pop against jobbers.

 

But you can't really replicate the big rises of the Undertaker and The Giant. Or Bruce the Giant for that matter.

[Gungner]

I think you're too hung up on the "Auto-Push" feature. You can push guys however you want. Just because the game suggests Matt Hardy as an upper midcard act doesn't mean you can't use him as an occasional job guy. People are going to get upset, but that's business.

 

I doubt Brock Lesnar auto-pushed too highly in his first year in WWE. They chose to push him as an unstoppable killing machine despite his low popularity. I'm sure plenty of folks complained. WWE pushed him anyway and eventually he built that popularity. I'd say build guys momentum on job guys first, before feeding them veterans. If people are going to complain, it's best to get the most out of it that you can. Decisive PPV wins with maximum momentum.

 

True. I've pushed Chris Kanyon to super stardom in my WCW Lives save. He's my current World Heavyweight Champion, one year in.

 

I've feuded him with guys like DDP, Flair, Sting and Goldberg, which shot his popularity to the skies.

[TeemuFoundation]

I believe pop gains and losses should be higher on TV vs. Events. More people watch the TV show. I know Raven used to agree to job on PPV if he got the win back on TV because he figured more people see the TV show.

[Self]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TeemuFoundation" data-cite="TeemuFoundation" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47266" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I believe pop gains and losses should be higher on TV vs. Events. More people watch the TV show. I know Raven used to agree to job on PPV if he got the win back on TV because he figured more people see the TV show.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The idea that TV "doesn't matter" seems like such a WWE concept to me. Their television has been so meaningless, with repeat matches and 50/50 booking and non-finishes, for so long that it's snuck into TEW. Makes running television-only promotions lame and plodding. </p><p> </p><p> TV is where you make stars. PPV is where you cash in. Or at least it was, before promotions earned the bulk of their money on TV deals.</p>

[TeemuFoundation]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Self" data-cite="Self" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47266" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The idea that TV "doesn't matter" seems like such a WWE concept to me. Their television has been so meaningless, with repeat matches and 50/50 booking and non-finishes, for so long that it's snuck into TEW. Makes running television-only promotions lame and plodding. <p> </p><p> TV is where you make stars. PPV is where you cash in. Or at least it was, before promotions earned the bulk of their money on TV deals.</p></div></blockquote><p> Oh for sure. I stopped watching WWE TV years ago. And this means full stop, nothing. WWE's television shows are so bad. They are actually bad television, bad entertainment. It's so damn bad, I actively wonder how they still somehow pull millions of watchers, despite the ratings going down. Like, what do the people still watching get from this company? I used to always watch at least the Rumble and Mania, last year was the first time since becoming a fan that I just skipped both. Watched no WWE programming all year.</p><p> </p><p> TEW is the only wrestling related thing I have any interest in. And I blame WWE's bad TV for my lack of interest that particular company; if the TV shows, meant to hype up PPVs, are unwatchable, how do I get hyped for PPVs? I don't.</p>

[Oregano Jensen]

<p>This is something that I hope will be made more realistic in TEW2020... it should be more possible to establish a worker's initial position on the card through booking, provided he holds up that position with his performances. </p><p> </p><p>

The way it is now doesn't make sense from a storytelling perspective -- for national/TV-based promotions, if a guy shows up and gets a push, nobody's like, "that guy's not <em>really</em> able to beat random midcarders, he wasn't here three months ago." (Unless he's not believable for other reasons, of course.) If he's a good and entertaining wrestler, people accept that and are intrigued -- possibly more so. </p><p> </p><p>

It's even goofier at the regional level: <em>this</em> guy was a midcarder in a similarly sized organization across the country, so fans accept him as a guy who could come in and win matches, but this <em>other</em> guy wasn't, so they're going to throw a fit if you even suggest that he might be pretty good, no matter what he does in the ring.</p><p> </p><p>

In a way, it's like what is done now with gimmicks -- a guy shows up. The booking and storylines imply that he's a weasely coward, or a tough guy who knows martial arts, or a 3000-year-old mummy (etc.) Based on his skills and performance in his first few appearances, as well as a certain amount of luck, the fans choose to accept that or not. </p><p> </p><p>

Card level should be something like the same thing -- the initial booking states to the fans, "this guy is a tough opponent," or "this guy is not able to beat most of the current roster," or "how can the champion <em>possibly</em> stand up to this monster?" And then, based on how well the worker looks doing the things that the booking says he can do, the fans decide whether to accept or reject the push implied by the initial booking.</p><p> </p><p>

Now, what this does backstage is a whole different matter. I can see a guy coming in, getting pushed very quickly, and that angering some of the veterans. That's a good dynamic -- it makes sense. But under 2016, you need months of massaging/gaming the system before you can even suggest that a new worker can beat your borderline jobbers... and the worst of it is that skill level, charisma, etc. are relatively minor factors in determining the rate of rise.</p>

[Derek B]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Oregano Jensen" data-cite="Oregano Jensen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47266" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This is something that I hope will be made more realistic in TEW2020... it should be more possible to establish a worker's initial position on the card through booking, provided he holds up that position with his performances. <p> </p><p> The way it is now doesn't make sense from a storytelling perspective -- for national/TV-based promotions, if a guy shows up and gets a push, nobody's like, "that guy's not <em>really</em> able to beat random midcarders, he wasn't here three months ago." (Unless he's not believable for other reasons, of course.) If he's a good and entertaining wrestler, people accept that and are intrigued -- possibly more so. </p><p> </p><p> It's even goofier at the regional level: <em>this</em> guy was a midcarder in a similarly sized organization across the country, so fans accept him as a guy who could come in and win matches, but this <em>other</em> guy wasn't, so they're going to throw a fit if you even suggest that he might be pretty good, no matter what he does in the ring.</p><p> </p><p> In a way, it's like what is done now with gimmicks -- a guy shows up. The booking and storylines imply that he's a weasely coward, or a tough guy who knows martial arts, or a 3000-year-old mummy (etc.) Based on his skills and performance in his first few appearances, as well as a certain amount of luck, the fans choose to accept that or not. </p><p> </p><p> Card level should be something like the same thing -- the initial booking states to the fans, "this guy is a tough opponent," or "this guy is not able to beat most of the current roster," or "how can the champion <em>possibly</em> stand up to this monster?" And then, based on how well the worker looks doing the things that the booking says he can do, the fans decide whether to accept or reject the push implied by the initial booking.</p><p> </p><p> Now, what this does backstage is a whole different matter. I can see a guy coming in, getting pushed very quickly, and that angering some of the veterans. That's a good dynamic -- it makes sense. But under 2016, you need months of massaging/gaming the system before you can even suggest that a new worker can beat your borderline jobbers... and the worst of it is that skill level, charisma, etc. are relatively minor factors in determining the rate of rise.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The new "Perception" feature that replaces the push system is going to make you very happy. <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Oregano Jensen]

<p>I had hoped so -- that's one of the few major issues I've had with the game, along with workers' tendency to stay active way too long (and AI promotions' tendency to not recognize this), and the way workers tend to develop into all-rounders after a few years, regardless of how their skills were distributed they started. </p><p> </p><p>

I don't know about the third, but I had hopes for the first two based on what I've read, and I'm glad to hear positive news from someone who might know more than I do. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Self]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Oregano Jensen" data-cite="Oregano Jensen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47266" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The way it is now doesn't make sense from a storytelling perspective -- for national/TV-based promotions, if a guy shows up and gets a push, nobody's like, "that guy's not <em>really</em> able to beat random midcarders, he wasn't here three months ago." (Unless he's not believable for other reasons, of course.) If he's a good and entertaining wrestler, people accept that and are intrigued -- possibly more so. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> But there's nothing in TEW that says the fans don't accept it. There's nothing stopping you from taking a complete unknown, setting his push to Main Eventer, and having him dominate everyone. It'll take time for his popularity to rise, sure, and losers will complain, but other than the Auto-Push (which is a sort-by-popularity tool, nothing more) where's the indication that fans aren't accepting the guy as what you're telling them he is?</p><p> </p><p> TEW'20 does sound like a big improvement. I've grown to hate the Auto-Push feature and how people misuse it/give it too much importance.</p>

[D16NJD16]

We are all hoping this is something that can happen in TEW 2020. As is, its another one of those real life things that cant be done in 2016. There are too many of those no doubt.

[redhilleagle]

 

TEW'20 does sound like a big improvement. I've grown to hate the Auto-Push feature and how people misuse it/give it too much importance.

 

I'm probably guilty of using auto push too much, but even placing a "lower midcard" guy into the main event manually doesn't stop people complaining about losing to them. Yokozuna, straight into the main event because it was believable that he could beat most if not ALL of the roster. You get the same in TEW, a super heavyweight, a real unbeatable monster can't be classed as main event by "the rest of the roster", because he's not popular enough. Imagine telling Andre the giant that when he first came onto the scene. "I know you'd smash this lightweight in a real fight Andre, but he's more popular than you."

[TeemuFoundation]

Yea, I'm really looking forward to the Perception feature. Definitely one of my most looked forward to features announced for 2020. I think that it will fix a lot the nagging issues I've had with TEW, despite always really liking them. I hope it can somehow solve the issue of contextual popularity, as well. What I mean is, if a Kurt Angle joins a TNA, him jobbing to an AJ Styles there isn't the same as a Kurt Angle jobbing to a 2006 AJ Styles in WWE during the same era. Simulating this has never really felt possible in TEW because popularity is always absolute.

[Self]

I'm probably guilty of using auto push too much, but even placing a "lower midcard" guy into the main event manually doesn't stop people complaining about losing to them. Yokozuna, straight into the main event because it was believable that he could beat most if not ALL of the roster. You get the same in TEW, a super heavyweight, a real unbeatable monster can't be classed as main event by "the rest of the roster", because he's not popular enough. Imagine telling Andre the giant that when he first came onto the scene. "I know you'd smash this lightweight in a real fight Andre, but he's more popular than you."

 

It shouldn't stop the complaints.

 

I think every single (non job-guy) person who lost to Yokozuna when he was picking up steam lost morale in doing so. Even those who saw the booking logic. Even those who knew that in a "real fight" they'd be crushed. Same with everyone fed to Brock Lesnar. When you want to be a top guy, being used as a prop to help someone else get there is going to lower your job satisfaction. In my job, if I was asked to train someone up for a promotion that I wanted, I'd be pretty salty.

 

I do wish rises happened more quickly in TEW'20, and I hope personalities play more of a role in worker's attitudes to losing. There are improvements to be made, but the idea that it can't be done it laughable.

[DatIsraeliGuy]

Go to the editor, that's what I always do.

 

It's like with Kane, you can't replicate him otherwise

[redhilleagle]

 

I think every single (non job-guy) person who lost to Yokozuna when he was picking up steam lost morale in doing so. Even those who saw the booking logic.

 

Even Hogan agreed to lose to Yoko, but wouldn't drop the belt to a (arguably) much popular, talented and experienced Bret Hart.

 

I think you've made a good case overall with that post, however, putting it into context of a "real life", I can see that sometime's, you just have to upset some people. However, wrestling is just a show, and in other shows I don't think you get the same mentality. I doubt actors in soap operas get upset when they are asked to get beaten up by a new character.

[Historian]

I doubt actors in soap operas get upset when they are asked to get beaten up by a new character.

 

From personal experience, I can tell you that they do. Actors are very particular about their roles and what their characters will and will not do.

[TeemuFoundation]

From personal experience, I can tell you that they do. Actors are very particular about their roles and what their characters will and will not do.

I can attest to this just from experience in theater yeah. "I shouldn't get beaten up by this guy" is actually not exclusive to wrestling, as funny as it is.