redhilleagle Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 To some extent, but I should have added, if the new guy was a beast and absolute brute. Phil Mitchell vs Ian Beale........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noknuckles Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 It's hard to replicate meteoric rises to the top right out of the gate, but given some time (say 4+ months) you can push a rookie all the way to the top (barring poor destiny rolls) without jobbing your main eventers to them. I would put them in angles with popular workers multiple times per show, but keep them away from each other when it comes to match time. The storylines and angles will build up the rookie's popularity rapidly. During the build, sacrifice some mid-carders to your rookie. With just storylines, you should be able to build your rookie to mid-card status to the point that midcarders wont complain too much. Do this for a few months and your rookie should be UMC or ME status From a realism standpoint, since you've kept your rookie away from your main eventers (match-wise. They may be involved in storyline), it builds anticipation from the crowd for their eventual encounter/match Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdcastles Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 This is the one place I feel TEW is lacking. The reason guys like The Undertaker can jump straight to the main event is due to their gimmick being so unique and their ability to play the gimmick is so strong. I would love to see the right gimmick lead to an instant pop boost, or act as the man beast gimmick did in EWR, where, as long the worker is a heel and doesn't lose, he gains a noticeable amount of pop each match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHK1978 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 From personal experience, I can tell you that they do. Actors are very particular about their roles and what their characters will and will not do. I co-sign this. A lot of actors are just plain nuts. That is why I always laugh when people hold them in such high esteem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatedRKO16 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Undertaker didnt instantly rise though. Promos and squash matches were there. Same with Razor. There were so many promos leading to his debut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franticloser Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 If you look at Brock's first few months in, the highest profile names he went over aside from Ric Flair, was Jeff Hardy, he also took two DQ losses to RVD, which allow RVD to get the win but Lesnar remain undefeated and looking like a monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slagaholic Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 I think you're too hung up on the "Auto-Push" feature. You can push guys however you want. Just because the game suggests Matt Hardy as an upper midcard act doesn't mean you can't use him as an occasional job guy. People are going to get upset, but that's business. I doubt Brock Lesnar auto-pushed too highly in his first year in WWE. They chose to push him as an unstoppable killing machine despite his low popularity. I'm sure plenty of folks complained. WWE pushed him anyway and eventually he built that popularity. I'd say build guys momentum on job guys first, before feeding them veterans. If people are going to complain, it's best to get the most out of it that you can. Decisive PPV wins with maximum momentum. Steve Austin walked out of the company completely because he was supposed to lose to Lesnar on a random TV Taping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franticloser Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 This has been blown out of proportion and Austin has explained quite rationally why he walked out. It wasn't because he was going to lose to Lesnar. It was because he knew there was money to be made in a build up and wanted to do the right thing and make a big deal for Lesnar to beat him. Not just have it be part of King of The Ring. It had nothing to do with just losing to him, it was losing to him with no build up to help build Lesnar and make money out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeemuFoundation Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Austin had also been frustrated with the overall creative for his character since at least the very beginning of 2002. He didn't want to work with the nWo, he didn't want to work with Scott Hall at WrestleMania, and after WrestleMania he was never quite Stone Cold Steve Austin. Post WrestleMania for Austin was the WWE giving Austin the modern day WWE treatment of making him just another guy on the roster. So I think it was just a bunch of stuff that had built up, and the Lesnar thing was the final straw. Austin just realized he has enough **** you money to be able to say that he doesn't need this shit anymore. It's really not even a weird thing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatedRKO16 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Does nobody remember the month long build up to Razor Ramon? Maybe longer than that. He cut long promos every week. Who's to say 1-2 months of entertainment based promos woildnt get someone over enough to squash a few more and rise fast? And look at Undertakers first matches. He beat a bunch of nobodies besides Jimmy Snuka twice. Heck he lost to Tito Santana. Then got thrown into a program with Hogan. http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/the-undertaker-124.html?year=1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rufas2000 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 From personal experience, I can tell you that they do. Actors are very particular about their roles and what their characters will and will not do. When Brice Lee (as Kato of the Green Hornet) series was asked to lose to Robin (Batman 60s TV series) in a crossover special he refused. They did a fight where no one won. I always suspected Mace Windu (Samuel L Jackson) refused to job clean to Emperor Palpatine so Anakin had to get involved. I don't actually think that's true but as a wrestling fan I thought it lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhilleagle Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 Listened to episode 119 of Jim Cornette's Drive Thru and he made some comments I thought were interesting relating to this thread. He was talking about Batista in OVW. He said that with his look and size, there's no way he could have been in preliminary matches, he had to be in the main event picture somehow. So they gave him a monster gimmick and pushed him. That's the kind of thing I've been talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinsmoker Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 I think people need to stop caring too much about the grades when they want to push someone to main event quickly. You just need to eat the penalties for a while. That's exactly how wrestling always works. Look at Roman Reigns push to the top. Or Braun Strowman, who basically did nothing but angles based on his Menace for months to no end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Historian Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Listened to episode 119 of Jim Cornette's Drive Thru and he made some comments I thought were interesting relating to this thread. He was talking about Batista in OVW. He said that with his look and size, there's no way he could have been in preliminary matches, he had to be in the main event picture somehow. So they gave him a monster gimmick and pushed him. That's the kind of thing I've been talking about. That is replicable already. You can hire someone and set them to be a main event and squash people with them until their popularity is where they are at. Nothing about the TEW system prohibits you from doing something -- he can be pushed as a main eventer. I think people forget that just because someone was pushed some way doesn't mean they were immediately perceived that way. I think the new system will allow a better capture of fan perception, but right now -- you can set them as a main eventer and push them that way -- but from how Adam has described the new system I think everyone will be very happy with the fan perceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeemuFoundation Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 I think what people mean is that without sufficient popularity, segments and matches involving a wrestler will tank. And this, to the player, comes across as the crowd rejecting the wrestler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Historian Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 I think what people mean is that without sufficient popularity, segments and matches involving a wrestler will tank. And this, to the player, comes across as the crowd rejecting the wrestler. But the vast majority of the time that is what happens in real life. There are a handful of examples where a character can be introduced and immediately be 'over'. Generally speaking, it takes the fans awhile to accept them as a legit star -- and almost always they have to be paired with other established stars for it to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeemuFoundation Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 But the vast majority of the time that is what happens in real life. There are a handful of examples where a character can be introduced and immediately be 'over'. Generally speaking, it takes the fans awhile to accept them as a legit star -- and almost always they have to be paired with other established stars for it to work. Yea, agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 I think what people mean is that without sufficient popularity, segments and matches involving a wrestler will tank. And this, to the player, comes across as the crowd rejecting the wrestler. And this is an unfortunate aspect to the presentation of TEW'16; that penalties and comparatively low grades feel like failure. Which doesn't seem intentional, but happens nonetheless. A low-popularity monster coming in to a 'D' rating seems bad when you want 'A' main events... but a little note like 'New Monster gained overness/momentum from this segment' could still make it feel successful. Positive reinforcement that the segment did work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d12345 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Self" data-cite="Self" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47266" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>And this is an unfortunate aspect to the presentation of TEW'16; that penalties and comparatively low grades feel like failure. Which doesn't seem intentional, but happens nonetheless. A low-popularity monster coming in to a 'D' rating seems bad when you want 'A' main events... but a little note like 'New Monster gained overness/momentum from this segment' could still make it feel successful. Positive reinforcement that the segment did work.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> People just need to remember that only your main event, 1 other match and top 3 angles need to hit to have a good show.</p><p> </p><p> Do not fear bombing a segment, angering a worker, or ruining someone's momentum if it means getting over the talent you really want over</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhilleagle Posted February 5, 2020 Author Share Posted February 5, 2020 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="d12345" data-cite="d12345" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47266" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>People just need to remember that only your main event, 1 other match and top 3 angles need to hit to have a good show.<p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Really? I thought all segments had an impact in some way or another, with ME and next highest rated match having a bigger say on how the show rating goes.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 <p>Typically I book one strong main event, one strong angle, and an undercard of garbage. I usually get a rating around about what the main event was. </p><p> </p><p> I believe you'll be able to tweak how much segments matter to the final rating in the next game, but I've never really felt the undercard having any massive effect on the important result.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek B Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Self" data-cite="Self" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47266" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Typically I book one strong main event, one strong angle, and an undercard of garbage. I usually get a rating around about what the main event was. <p> </p><p> I believe you'll be able to tweak how much segments matter to the final rating in the next game, but I've never really felt the undercard having any massive effect on the important result.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yes, your show rating in TEW16 is based on 70% of the main event (best angle), 20% of the second best match (and angle) and 10% of the rest (third angle). Each number is then weighted depending on your popularity vs performance part of your product. If there aren't enough matches or angles the main event / top angle gets a higher weighting.</p><p> </p><p> In TEW20 there are a bunch of options on how to calculate your show ratings. For you, Self, there is an option for having your main event count as 90% of that part of the calculation, which would be ideal for how you've booked CGC in the past. <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> I thnk the post in the dev journal covered it in detail and I don't want to mention too much in case I'm wrong. But you can definitely customise it to suit your booking style, which is something that I think a lot of players are going to like. <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d12345 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Really? I thought all segments had an impact in some way or another, with ME and next highest rated match having a bigger say on how the show rating goes. Yup. Derek B laid out the formula in the post above. I will just add that in terms of angles only your top 3 factor into your show grade. Meaning your 4th angle could be complete garbage F- and it wouldn't affect anything beyond the crowd's enthusiasm. So freely fill your undercard with garbage and make sure to pump up your audience before your big matches. i.e.: the WWE Monday Night Raw 3-hour strategy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhilleagle Posted February 6, 2020 Author Share Posted February 6, 2020 i.e.: the WWE Monday Night Raw 3-hour strategy... I didn't watch during this period. Please explain. Sounds interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackman Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 I didn't watch during this period. Please explain. Sounds interesting. It's basically the "perfect show" theory where you program highs and lows to "manage" crowd excitement so it peaks at some key segments. You can't really do that with a standard 6-match/segment show (say: 1/1.5 hour). I assume that's what he meant. As for the "quick rises" I agree with what's been said before: you can replicate it in the game but you gotta take some 'bumps' before you get there. As mentioned, Roman is a fine example as people had to deal with him being more featured than he should and it would've hurt the pop of several events. You can make an argument for "quick rises" within hotbeds. "Bluepants" from NXT got more pop then she should've gotten for being a jobber. I'm sure several in the crowd knew her already, but her pop couldn't have been high in-game. Maybe in that case you can get to E-level after a couple of matches. If they chose to "go" with her, she could've been something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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