Thunderverse Discussion Thread

[EdawgTheMighty]

I never tried the Thunderverse but I heard it is a little sillier or has sillier characters? Maybe I am thinking of something else

[Matt_Black]

I never tried the Thunderverse but I heard it is a little sillier or has sillier characters? Maybe I am thinking of something else

 

There is nothing silly about that premier athlete El Hot Dog.

[combinethresher]

There is nothing silly about that premier athlete El Hot Dog.

 

El Hot Dog, and POW! in general, is what sold me on the Thunderverse. I also really love PWSUX even though I never really knew how to book it longterm.

[jhd1]

I never tried the Thunderverse but I heard it is a little sillier or has sillier characters? Maybe I am thinking of something else

 

You might be thinking of the TitanVerse. There are comedy characters in the ThunderVerse but I wouldn't describe it as silly. In many ways it's designed to be truer to real life than the Cverse is.

[Atticus]

I'd love it if Gao Xi went to UPJ, but he was rejected by the Ozeki Dojo and was trained by Dagger Ito, so the chances of that are slim, UNLESS Dagger Ito makes up with the UPJ brass now that the Matsumoto brothers are gone forever.

 

Yeah, whoever gets Gao is going to be incredibly lucky. I like the idea of Gao coming into UPJ with Dagger and an invasion force, but I imagine Dagger's return may be too celebrated for that. Then Dagger having good friends in both HONOUR and DIASPORA makes things tricky too if Dagger guides Gao. He could be DIASPORA's heavyweight ace or an ace in waiting for HONOUR (assuming none of their top guys got poached). There's something fun in Dagger having Gao as a top guy in DIASPORA and Taheiji as a top guy in HONOUR as they war on against UPJ.

 

UPJ in general has a couple of exciting prospects who will have only been wrestling for a few years in 2020 that I'm pumped for too. Would also love to just see them go full NJPW and add like 3 extra belts, bring back the junior tag belts, do two tag leagues, a UPJ Cup because why not? Almost feel like UPJ will be entering the phase New Japan hit in 2013/14 right before gaining more popularity in the States, but I don't really know what American they could bring in to get that started. Maybe Leati if he becomes more popular and polished.

[Markw]

Yeah, whoever gets Gao is going to be incredibly lucky. I like the idea of Gao coming into UPJ with Dagger and an invasion force, but I imagine Dagger's return may be too celebrated for that. Then Dagger having good friends in both HONOUR and DIASPORA makes things tricky too if Dagger guides Gao. He could be DIASPORA's heavyweight ace or an ace in waiting for HONOUR (assuming none of their top guys got poached). There's something fun in Dagger having Gao as a top guy in DIASPORA and Taheiji as a top guy in HONOUR as they war on against UPJ.

 

UPJ in general has a couple of exciting prospects who will have only been wrestling for a few years in 2020 that I'm pumped for too. Would also love to just see them go full NJPW and add like 3 extra belts, bring back the junior tag belts, do two tag leagues, a UPJ Cup because why not? Almost feel like UPJ will be entering the phase New Japan hit in 2013/14 right before gaining more popularity in the States, but I don't really know what American they could bring in to get that started. Maybe Leati if he becomes more popular and polished.

 

If we're looking at UPJ expansion, Scott Hart would be the ideal guy to expand both in the US and Europe, and his bio hints at a possible move to Japan. To be fair just about anyone on the PWI roster would be a good fit, and just need to have a fallout with Allman to make it happen.

[ShaunGBD]

You might be thinking of the TitanVerse. There are comedy characters in the ThunderVerse but I wouldn't describe it as silly. In many ways it's designed to be truer to real life than the Cverse is.

 

In what wait is it more truer

[jhd1]

In what wait is it more truer

 

The CVerse has a significant number of large promotions based in a world where wrestling has never really dropped out of favour; the ThunderVerse does not. The ThunderVerse has also traditionally had a stronger women's scene than the CVerse. Roster turnover in the ThunderVerse tends to be greater than the CVerse as well, although that's not always the case.

 

It wasn't by any means meant as a criticism of the CVerse which is awesome (and the inspiration behind the original ThunderVerse), simply a response to a question about whether the mod was "sillier".

[The Celt]

I would also describe the Thunderverse as more "saturated" than the C-Verse, both in a literal, visual sense (because of jhd's colourful renders and logos) but also in the way the promotions and characters are written)

 

A good comparison is the C-Verse's PSW in contrast with that of PWSUX. Both are regional hardcore companies in the North East of the US.

 

PSW, for me, had a lot of flat, two-dimensional characters that weren't all that fun: The Idaho Punisher, an broken down Wolverine, Primal Rage, Honest Frank, guys like that. This may or may not be by design, as PSW in the C-Verse represents/parallels the hardcore companies IRL that came after ECW but absolutely did not recapture their spark. PSW is/was a company chasing DAVE's spark and didn't ignite.

 

PWSUX, on the other hand, is filled with characters who are on an upswing, not a downswing, and who are just waiting for their potential to be unlocked. There's a sense these guys' best days could still be ahead of them. But more than that, the bios and renders are well done and they feel very fleshed out as characters.

 

But that's just one promotion, there are many others where that's the case. CWT is technically a Thunderverse promotion on somewhat of a downswing, but it still has the charm of being a Memphis style promotion that somehow exists in the modern era, and you get all the fun of doing a throwback Memphis style of wrestling. And once again, the characters are very fun and fleshed out.

 

And really that's the theme across the board, just that jhd and his crew did a really good job with the characters and promotions. My only criticism is that sometimes they went a little overbroad with mirroring the real world. tHURTteen is, without question, Sabu. The Brooklyn Punk is, without question, Bully Ray. There's a New Jack character in there, etc etc. I think the team showed they were completely capable of coming up with really good original characters so I feel, just personally, they didn't need to go so close to home with those guys.

 

The C-Verse is a good world, and it has been greatly enhanced by additions over the years such as C-Verse 77 and C-Verse 97 which really helped fleshed it out. Thunderverse has a different vibe to it though, all the things I said above but also perhaps an added sense of urgency and energy because so many of the promotions in the game have TV deals and there's so much jumping from ship to ship by the wrestlers.

 

Definitely a lot of fun and if you're into fictional modes, you can't not play it once you've had a few runs in the C-Verse.

[TLLK]

One of the biggest things for me, and it’s probably not that big of a deal to many, is the consistent style of all the pictures. The renders are awesome.

 

I also agree with what The Celt said about characters. The Japanese scene in the C-Verse feels really flat to me, especially Burning Hammer. UPJ has been one of my favorite games because of the characters, even if there are very obvious parallels to Tanahashi, Omega, Nakamura, Liger, etc. on the roster.

 

Speaking of which, if the powers that be want any ideas for UPJ’s expansion — check Dalton’s game updates in the 2016 thread.

[jhd1]

My only criticism is that sometimes they went a little overbroad with mirroring the real world. tHURTteen is, without question, Sabu. The Brooklyn Punk is, without question, Bully Ray. There's a New Jack character in there, etc etc. I think the team showed they were completely capable of coming up with really good original characters so I feel, just personally, they didn't need to go so close to home with those guys.

 

That was a great post, thanks Celt.

 

Completely agree with the above quote. Notably the vast majority of these were from the original mod where I (and perhaps the wider team) had less experience populating a fictional universe at all, let alone one of this size. I certainly had less experience with the wider RL wrestling scene as well. Some of those, 13TEEN being a prime example, are so ingrained in the mod it's hard to move away from that inspiration. In other cases we're doing that, and several looks and character references have been changed (particularly as my wrestling knowledge has improved and I've begun to notice where others have walked that line during the creation of a character).

 

Any suggestions around these topics, for example how to move 13TEEN away from being a Sabu clone, would be very welcome. Feel free to post here or PM me

[EdawgTheMighty]

Well damn, I am going to give this a shot before TEW 2020 comes out. Thanks!

[jhd1]

Any suggestions around these topics, for example how to move 13TEEN away from being a Sabu clone, would be very welcome. Feel free to post here or PM me

 

Just to expand on this now that I'm not having to type on a phone...

 

There are three types of parallel with real life, and all fictional modes combine a combination of them in some form or another. They are similarities in appearance, similarities in "character" and similarities in both.

 

Similarities in appearance can be a fun way to pay homage to a particular real world character (whether that is a wrestling personality or otherwise). They also provide a recognisable reference point for people playing the mod, and are quite fun to render at the same time.

 

Similarities in character also provide some reference points for people, to give them an idea of the types of characters in the universe. There are often big events, backstage or on-screen, and personalities in wrestling that are so momentous that they carry over into fictional mods almost as a rule because it shows that the wrestling world bears some similarity with our own.

 

Similarities in both are the ones where it becomes a bit more of an issue (and apply to the three examples that Celt mentioned). Sometimes it's done deliberately to provide a "pillar" for the mod (Sam Strong and Terry Thunder, for example). Other times it's just not as subtle as its meant to be. Those last ones are the ones that we're trying to work through and change. Here are a couple of quick examples off the top of my head:

 

There were two New Jack-style characters in the last ThunderVerse - Crazy Jack and Crime Scene. The former was a particular example of that unsubtle, new-to-world-building similarity, albeit the character has its uses. In the new mod, the two characters have been combined under the Crime Scene name. The background will be tweaked to make it less overtly a New Jack parallel, although as his render still has that "look" it'll still have an element of familiarity about it.

 

Eddy Orion looked very similar to Kenny Omega. His position as a rookie meant his bio didn't describe his character too much, so without an image you'd probably not get the Omega link (certainly I didn't the first time around). However, the name and look together makes the parallel seem more obvious. Orion is now a Middle Eastern wrestler with an ace beard. His character otherwise remains the same but the parallel is no longer there.

 

We won't get them all, as mentioned earlier there are some characters that are either too ingrained in the mod or whose position as a RL parallel is deliberately included. Some we might just miss.

 

I recently saw an interesting discussion where someone asked for RL comparisons to ThunderVerse workers and someone suggested that Adrienne was supposed to "be" Lana. In actual fact, Adrienne was created in the original jhdVerse mod, released in 2012. Lana wasn't signed to the WWE until June 2013. So for all the deliberate comparisons that are there, some are just a quirk of the real world catching up with the fictional!

[Big Roguey]

Orion's beard really does look good.

 

That's my lone contribution here because jhd's covered the topic very well in his post. The point about paying homages is maybe something I've been real guilty of but also it was a fun way to pay tribute to a UK scene that at the time hadn't blown up to the point it has now.

[Howie041]

I'm holding out hope for a Vice release. I was so bummed when that mod was nixed.

[Morti]

Very well formulated there jhd1! I have been creating characters for this game for custom mods for over 5 years now, and the ability to be original is something that comes with time. And I still sometimes fall into the trap of creating a carbon copy of someone else.

 

It isn't easy to keep creativity and originality alive for over 1000 characters, but it is definitely something to strive for! I never got into the TVerse personally, but my god what an influence it has in the TEW modding community. Without you guys I don't know if I ever would embark on the custom database journey those years back, thank you for making this huge task seem human! It means a lot to me.

[Markw]

That was a great post, thanks Celt.

 

Completely agree with the above quote. Notably the vast majority of these were from the original mod where I (and perhaps the wider team) had less experience populating a fictional universe at all, let alone one of this size. I certainly had less experience with the wider RL wrestling scene as well. Some of those, 13TEEN being a prime example, are so ingrained in the mod it's hard to move away from that inspiration. In other cases we're doing that, and several looks and character references have been changed (particularly as my wrestling knowledge has improved and I've begun to notice where others have walked that line during the creation of a character).

 

Any suggestions around these topics, for example how to move 13TEEN away from being a Sabu clone, would be very welcome. Feel free to post here or PM me

 

Won't 13TEEN be 50 at the start of the game? It feels like there's a sad but simple solution to that one.

[jhd1]

Won't 13TEEN be 50 at the start of the game? It feels like there's a sad but simple solution to that one.

 

You're right, he probably should be holding the AWF, PWI and UPJ Heavyweight Championships at the start of the game by this point.

[Big Roguey]

Won't 13TEEN be 50 at the start of the game? It feels like there's a sad but simple solution to that one.

 

You're right, he probably should be holding the AWF, PWI and UPJ Heavyweight Championships at the start of the game by this point.

 

jhd why are we giving away spoilers this early?

[Markw]

jhd why are we giving away spoilers this early?

 

I'm sure you were telling us about Dustin LeFever's Junior Mountain/Ozeki Summit double only the other day.

[Big Roguey]

......

 

I plead the fifth.

[Markw]

Would it be too cheeky to ask what stage the mod is at? Has it been created fully in 2016? You guys been testers of 2020/had a chance to convert/start adjusting it at all?

[jhd1]

Would it be too cheeky to ask what stage the mod is at? Has it been created fully in 2016? You guys been testers of 2020/had a chance to convert/start adjusting it at all?

 

Not cheeky at all.

 

Every single worker was reviewed and 95% of them were recreated in a blank database from scratch. I'd consider that part pretty much done (it took a while!). However, the stats are now much more consistent across the game world (the region expansions way back when threw things slightly off-kilter). The main "stories" were then talked through to see about bringing the mod from 2016 into 2020. We've had quite a lot of discussions and revisions with that and we even revisited the original jhdVerse and early ThunderVerse mods to see what things we wish we hadn't done, what could have been done differently etc. so there is some slight re-canoning of the universe (in addition to the character changes discussed earlier).

 

Due to the recent Coronavirus pandemic we're currently in the process of reviewing how that could impact the ThunderVerse and finalising the rosters and companies. A lot of bios still need to be written, but the previous mods provide a good base for those, it's more about bringing them up to date. We're also continuing to push for a realistic base, including reviewing all title lineages to provide number of titles held closer to real life equivalents.

 

It's not going to drop in a fortnight that's for sure, but hopefully once TEW2020 comes out we'll have a better idea of how long it will take and can start to plan out how we share the progress.

[Markw]

Sounds awesome, cheers! Very interested to see what decision is made around Coronavirus/whether it or an equivalent does have an impact on the game world.

[Atticus]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Markw" data-cite="Markw" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47493" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If we're looking at UPJ expansion, Scott Hart would be the ideal guy to expand both in the US and Europe, and his bio hints at a possible move to Japan. To be fair just about anyone on the PWI roster would be a good fit, and just need to have a fallout with Allman to make it happen.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Keeping in line with this, I wonder if we'd get a UPJ/PWI partnership similar to NJPW/ROH. Though, PWI definitely doesn't need UPJ in this universe.</p><p> </p><p> Or maybe they do in 2020~! oooooh mystery!!</p>