Public Beta Reaction Thread

[Dalton]

I wouldn't say i was a vocal critic, but I just want to emphasize, there is A TON that I love about 20. Worker personalities, the new perception system, the whole concept of tags making it easier to find angles.

 

If some of the QoL stuff gets sorted out (organizing buttons, making it more clear what's clickable and what isn't, access to worker profiles on the angles screen), this will be a no-brainer. Mods have already done a great job making the default skin less "bright" which was my big issue.

 

Piggybacking off of this just to say that I agree with every word. Gameplay is incredible and a huge step forward. Once QoL is improved like you said, I'll never be able to go back to TEW2016. I look forward to the release date because I know by then the game will be even better.

[daddytorgo1]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Damo" data-cite="Damo" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That's just not the reality of the situation. Here is an incredibly niche game built by one person that is a database front end that is priced competitively, has great reviews and is evolving all the time.<p> </p><p> <a href="https://store.steampowered.com/app/1184770/The_Political_Process/" rel="external nofollow">https://store.steampowered.com/app/1184770/The_Political_Process/</a></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Thanks for this - it looks right up my alley as far as games go. Going to favorite/wishlist it.</p>

[joeantaine]

The game is currently unplayable for me past my first show cos of error 3077 which started happening after patch 3 cause the game to crash every time.

[tnyrwn]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Sylver" data-cite="Sylver" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I started a game unemployed, and then created my own company. I wanted to start an integrated company, similar to Lucha Underground. <p> </p><p> When I go to the pre-booking screen, there are no wrestlers listed in the window. It just says "Empty" However, I can select the wrestlers using the drop-down checkboxes on the left side. The search bar does not have any thing set that would limit the list of wrestlers available. </p><p> </p><p> Pre-booking works fine with existing companies.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Pre Book some matches, it will givewrestlers perception and then they will appear in the lsit</p>

[Bull]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="joeantaine" data-cite="joeantaine" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The game is currently unplayable for me past my first show cos of error 3077 which started happening after patch 3 cause the game to crash every time.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Patch 4 should have that fixed.</p>

[daddytorgo1]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ZMAN" data-cite="ZMAN" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Haha I’m pretty sure there’s more people willing to put time and energy into politics than “what if WCW didn’t ruin Bret Hart”</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If you listen to Eric Bischoff, Bret Hart ruined Bret Hart. But what I ultimately took from Wrestling with Shadows, Bischoff, and interviews with Hart, is that the Montreal Screwjob really ruined him. It killed his passion for, and naive belief in the integrity of, the business. Everything after that was just him cashing a paycheck. And after Owen, that was only magnified.</p><p> </p><p> It is always fun to try to build him up at that point again though, that's for sure.</p>

[TOTKingNothing]

<p>I have been a very vocal critic of the lack of custom products, and I will continue to be very vocal about it.</p><p> </p><p>

That being said, there is so so much I like about this game and get excited about when I am playing it. New backstage interactions, more lively workers, booking shows while the show is running, block bookings, the new contracts feel better (when the AI isn't breaking the system), stables look so amazing (when the AI isn't throwing people out of them or closing one every day), the world wide tag team search is a dream come true.</p><p> </p><p>

I LOVE a lot about this game, and I enjoy testing it, finding errors, and working with Adam to fix bugs.</p><p> </p><p>

Especially now that I have a skin that doesn't make me wanna dig my eyes out of their sockets. </p><p> </p><p>

That all being said, I will remain critical of the product system and it's restrictiveness. This is the hill I will die on and I probably won't buy this game if the feature goes to launch without changes. That is how strongly I feel the system has taken a step backwards.</p>

[Hive]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Skummy" data-cite="Skummy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>With all due respect, I'm on the testing team. <p> </p><p> I'm not, and never have been, a moderator of this board (or even a particularly active member). Before this week, I probably couldn't have told you who the moderators on this board even were. </p><p> </p><p> In terms of being a collaborator, or part of Adam Ryland's "inner circle" - before he asked me to be part of this project, I'm not sure we'd ever exchanged more than a few words when we'd happened to be in the same thread on a forum. </p><p> </p><p> From my understanding, I was asked to be part of the team for exactly the reasons you're suggesting - a combination of knowledge of wrestling, and insight into the mechanics of the game as displayed through my posts on here and elsewhere. As other people are pointing out how many past versions they've played in defence of their position, I will say now that I've been playing EW games since EW9000 twenty (!) years ago.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I can only speak for myself, but I assume a similar story lies behind other members of the testing team as well. And it's neither helpful nor pleasant to see multiple posters on this board crafting a narrative of the team as being nothing but yes men, or jumping to conclusions as to what the testing process entailed, then berating people based on that <em>assumption</em>. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> If there are differences of opinion on quality from the testing team to some of the players, the majority will be just that - <em>opinion</em>. As someone, I believe Arlie, mentioned though, the testing team have necessarily had longer to see the new UI develop and longer to get used to it, rather than being "thrown in at the deep end" and having a lot of change presented to us all at once on release day. </p><p> </p><p> That might indicate that, as I believe, the vast majority of issues people are having with the game are little more than the learning curve that will always be part and parcel of finding your way around an extremely complex game, or it may mean that many of us on the team have perhaps been too close to the project as it developed to recognise some issues that other users might have had with it. The truth perhaps lies somewhere in the middle, it's just a matter of which angle you're looking at it from.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Ultimately, though, I just really wanted to step in and object to the narrative that's forming of Adam Ryland having somehow surrounded himself with a testing team made up of nothing but close confidantes and yes men. It's a narrative that's neither true nor useful in moving forward, and does a disservice to many, many hours of work that have gone into the development of the game over the past two years or so - from the very early conceptual stages, right through to release. </p><p> </p><p> It's nothing but jumping to unfounded conclusions and is in its way just as harmful and toxic a response as the flaming and overt name calling that reflected so badly on this forum over the past number of days.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I apologize if I offended you. That was not my intent. I'm sure you did all you could.</p>

[Kimberly]

<p>I am really looking forward to seeing the changes made. There is a lot to like about the game. And, once you get a general sense of how it works, its easier <em>for me</em>. </p><p> </p><p>

That isn't to say there aren't issues because clearly there are. I am hoping that the graphical design of the game that legitimately caused people headaches (I am one of those people) will be changed drastically. My two major gripes are with having to click drop down menus to do most things but I am sure I can adapt to that and not having the ability to edit products, that might just be a deal breaker for me. If the goal of this game is, as it should be, to give us greater options to sim running a wrestling company, the goal should be to limit as little as possible. I was one of the people that felt TEW 2016 was outdated and that the model it was built upon felt old. This feels new. </p><p> </p><p>

I am reserving judgment, but I am hopeful that Adam will make some changes that will be enough for me to spend $35 on. We shall see.</p>

[fusionfreak]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TOTKingNothing" data-cite="TOTKingNothing" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I have been a very vocal critic of the lack of custom products, and I will continue to be very vocal about it.<p> </p><p> That being said, there is so so much I like about this game and get excited about when I am playing it. New backstage interactions, more lively workers, booking shows while the show is running, block bookings, the new contracts feel better (when the AI isn't breaking the system), stables look so amazing (when the AI isn't throwing people out of them or closing one every day), the world wide tag team search is a dream come true.</p><p> </p><p> I LOVE a lot about this game, and I enjoy testing it, finding errors, and working with Adam to fix bugs.</p><p> </p><p> Especially now that I have a skin that doesn't make me wanna dig my eyes out of their sockets. </p><p> </p><p> That all being said, I will remain critical of the product system and it's restrictiveness. This is the hill I will die on and I probably won't buy this game if the feature goes to launch without changes. That is how strongly I feel the system has taken a step backwards.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> What I'd like to see (if its possible) leave it how it is but let us create a product as well. Overall I prefer the new product system but I think this would balance for people like me that are very happy with it and people that aren't so happy with it.</p>

[stonecold285]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Dalton" data-cite="Dalton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Just to add my two cents whatever they're worth, I was (and still am) very excited for the game to be released. I believe it is SO close to being excellent. With a few (albeit fairly large) changes, TEW2020 will consume my free time just like the last installment did. I played the demo for quite a few hours each day since it's came out, and I love the gameplay. I wholeheartedly understand most of the sentiments shared in this thread, and agree with some, mostly about the lack of uniformity among the UI. After booking a few shows, I went back to TEW2016 and even though it's very smooth, it is definitely a step behind in features and choices, which of course is the goal in releasing a successor.<p> </p><p> Of course I speak for myself here. I write these as just a regular customer who likes the series, without any "bias" one way or another. After the bugs are taken care of and the feedback is considered, I think we will all be happy <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I absolutely agree with that. </p><p> </p><p> I kind of dig the new UI, I have absolutely have no problem with the look of it, what so ever, zero, null, nix, nada. Maybe I'm a simple person who is easy to please, I don't know. Hell, I even find it better than the one from 2016, personally. I think that most of the people who are annoyed about it, are, because 2013 and 2016 look pretty similar in that regard and now the buttons have moved around quite a lot and it's just different. I totally understand them, because for so many years they have been using the same interface and now many things have changed. It needs a bit of time for them to adapt. </p><p> </p><p> Others are having issues with so much clicking going on but if they just disable the new colored lists in the prefences...voila, problem solved (at least for the most part). I don't even know what those colored lists are good for except for highlighting in yellow/red which workers hold titles/are unavailable when on the roster page, so I don't really care for that feature, personally. Also, I have not once been in a situation where I said "Damn, why can't I scroll with the mouse?"</p><p> </p><p> Lastly, lots of people complained about there being 40 Buttons in the office screen PLUS there being 18 more on the Bottom of the main screen. Those 18 on the bottom are supposed to be shortcuts for your most used buttons from the office, which you can rearrange and slect to your pleasing. Are you telling me that you are using all of the buttons all the time?</p><p> </p><p> Like I said, give the new layout a Chance and let it sink in a bit <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[stonecold285]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="daddytorgo1" data-cite="daddytorgo1" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If you listen to Eric Bischoff, Bret Hart ruined Bret Hart. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Also, if you listen to Vinnie Mac, Bret screwed Bret ^^</p>

[southside_hitmen]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TOTKingNothing" data-cite="TOTKingNothing" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I have been a very vocal critic of the lack of custom products, and I will continue to be very vocal about it.<p> </p><p> That being said, there is so so much I like about this game and get excited about when I am playing it. New backstage interactions, more lively workers, booking shows while the show is running, block bookings, the new contracts feel better (when the AI isn't breaking the system), stables look so amazing (when the AI isn't throwing people out of them or closing one every day), the world wide tag team search is a dream come true.</p><p> </p><p> I LOVE a lot about this game, and I enjoy testing it, finding errors, and working with Adam to fix bugs.</p><p> </p><p> Especially now that I have a skin that doesn't make me wanna dig my eyes out of their sockets. </p><p> </p><p> That all being said, I will remain critical of the product system and it's restrictiveness. This is the hill I will die on and I probably won't buy this game if the feature goes to launch without changes. That is how strongly I feel the system has taken a step backwards.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I’m in the same boat. There is soooo much I like about the game (hello stables being used!). The inability to customize products is a dealbreaker for me.</p><p> </p><p> As wonderful as all the new features are, the inability to create/tweak my own products is not a trade off I’m willing to make. It would be like not being able to edit workers, add match types, etc...</p><p> </p><p> This game has always been awesome because you can CREATE the wrestling world the way you want it to be. I don’t feel like I can create the game world I want without this, and the feedback loop of weeks for a product to “get in” (if it’s deemed “necessary”) is honestly sucking all of the fun out of the other wonderful features of the game for me.</p><p> </p><p> It’s a hill I’m willing to die on as well.</p>

[Kimberly]

I’m in the same boat. There is soooo much I like about the game (hello stables being used!). The inability to customize products is a dealbreaker for me.

 

As wonderful as all the new features are, the inability to create/tweak my own products is not a trade off I’m willing to make. It would be like not being able to edit workers, add match types, etc...

 

This game has always been awesome because you can CREATE the wrestling world the way you want it to be. I don’t feel like I can create the game world I want without this, and the feedback loop of weeks for a product to “get in” (if it’s deemed “necessary”) is honestly sucking all of the fun out of the other wonderful features of the game for me.

 

It’s a hill I’m willing to die on as well.

 

It might be for me too. When I test booked a show, since I did not book to the preset product, the show failed massively and I immediately dropped in size. If that is going to happen, I won't be buying the game.

 

Again, there is so much to like. And I WANT to like this game. I hope in the next few weeks, Adam makes me love it.

[daddytorgo1]

Also, if you listen to Vinnie Mac, Bret screwed Bret ^^

 

LOL that too.

 

Not saying I believe Bischoff personally - I think in his podcast he did seem to take some level of responsibility for not having good creative when it came to Bret, which was definitely true as anyone with eyes could tell at that time.

[Munit]

I agree with everyone's above points. I personally love the ui. Some things need to be changed and tweaked for sure. However I dont really have any complaints in general. I had fun booking the game and looking through everything and learning about what's changed in game. I really like the layout in the booking with perception with singles and tag teams as well. I've had nothing but a blast playing tbh. I understand everyone's opinions about wanting changes for the better, however I just personally wish early access existed.ive played plenty of games early access and supported the developer while reporting bugs. Just my opinion.

[Remianen]

I can only speak for myself, but I assume a similar story lies behind other members of the testing team as well. And it's neither helpful nor pleasant to see multiple posters on this board crafting a narrative of the team as being nothing but yes men, or jumping to conclusions as to what the testing process entailed, then berating people based on that assumption.

 

Unfortunately, that comes with the territory. Like, when Cyberpunk ships, there will be people who will complain that it doesn't run on their baked potato PCs and the testing team is a bunch of elitists because they run computers that didn't ship with Windows Vista installed. The day one patch will lead to moaning because "it should've been fixed already", despite the game being delayed FOUR TIMES. We've already been spoken to in preparation. People will pan you because you didn't have their specific interests in mind. The "incompetent QA" narrative is common. Wrong, but common. Just know that you did what was asked to the best of your ability. No team, no matter how large, is going to catch every bug in a piece of software. No team, no matter how large, is going to produce a feature set that appeals to everyone. But the ad hominems are par for the course.

[Everything Ken]

So, I've spent most of my time in the editor, working on replicating my 2016 save. I love the new editor. So many less clicking and both style lists are beneficial for different purposes. The white board has been invaluable to me. I love that I don't need to do 4 different clicks to switch from editing workers to editing companies. My only complaint is the change to products, as others have pointed out. It doesn't really affect me in a gameplay level as I'm never going to play anything other than mainstream RW companies. But, I pretty much have to do a big guessing game to replicate other companies.

 

I did do a few days in the CornellVerse just to give the game a try. I honestly really like the interface. I really like that I can customize the button order on the bottom of the screen. My only minor nitpick, as I saw someone else point out, is I don't see any pattern as to how the buttons are laid out in the office.

 

I used autobooker for the first time ever and it produced a pretty bad show. As I mentioned though, I've only played for a few in game days just to see how it looks and plays. Overall though, I really enjoy the actual in game stuff.

 

 

I'm kind of disappointed that Adam pushed the full version date back, but if it makes for a better game, I'm fine with that. Many thanks to Adam and all of the developers, testers, and you other important peeps.

 

So anyway, my only complaints I have currently are:

-lack of custom products

-the seemingly random order to the buttons in the office

-I love the perception system, but it would be kind of nice if there were more categories as I think it would make the depth of your roster more easily visible.

[Derek B]

Unfortunately, that comes with the territory. Like, when Cyberpunk ships, there will be people who will complain that it doesn't run on their baked potato PCs and the testing team is a bunch of elitists because they run computers that didn't ship with Windows Vista installed. The day one patch will lead to moaning because "it should've been fixed already", despite the game being delayed FOUR TIMES. We've already been spoken to in preparation. People will pan you because you didn't have their specific interests in mind. The "incompetent QA" narrative is common. Wrong, but common. Just know that you did what was asked to the best of your ability. No team, no matter how large, is going to catch every bug in a piece of software. No team, no matter how large, is going to produce a feature set that appeals to everyone. But the ad hominems are par for the course.

 

Well said.

 

Also, I'm super excited for Cyberpunk. It's gonna be great.

[Hawk1665]

Unfortunately, that comes with the territory. Like, when Cyberpunk ships, there will be people who will complain that it doesn't run on their baked potato PCs and the testing team is a bunch of elitists because they run computers that didn't ship with Windows Vista installed. The day one patch will lead to moaning because "it should've been fixed already", despite the game being delayed FOUR TIMES. We've already been spoken to in preparation. People will pan you because you didn't have their specific interests in mind. The "incompetent QA" narrative is common. Wrong, but common. Just know that you did what was asked to the best of your ability. No team, no matter how large, is going to catch every bug in a piece of software. No team, no matter how large, is going to produce a feature set that appeals to everyone. But the ad hominems are par for the course.

 

But if I can jump in here, as someone who has beta tested software himself (admittedly not as big as TEW); I hit a CTD with 2020 within about twenty minutes of playing the trial. I was just looking around trying things and wham, CTD. It wasn't anything out of the ordinary, it wasn't some super obscure thing I did, specifically I asked an unemployed worker if they'd do a deathmatch to see what would happen. That's pretty egregious.

 

I'm by no means attacking the beta testers but part of beta testing is trying random crap out for the sake of trying random crap out just to see what will happen and how the game/program will respond. Even if it doesn't make sense to do it, you still try it to see what will happen. It's less about actually playing the game and more experimenting, poking and prodding to find issues. Then once that's settled you can turn to more long-term issues. A player really, really shouldn't find something like that so easily.

 

The bug's been fixed since obviously but other CTD's existed. You can't catch every bug or error but you should still be able to catch the easily reproducible ones like these through normal beta testing. It's one thing if the error is in a super obscure manner like clicking on a notification of a birthday for a worker that fell on January 29th causing some weird overflow issue compared to clicking a UI element.

 

People shouldn't be insulting the beta testers or hurling insults but do I feel like maybe the ball was dropped a little bit? Yeah, I do. But they're human. It happens.

 

I also don't understand how no one stopped that skin from being released. I can't imagine Ryland, or the graphics designer or the beta testers could have possibly thought it looked okay. From the moment I saw the screen it felt like my eyes were being burned and I literally couldn't focus on anything text related.

[Eastshire]

It might be for me too. When I test booked a show, since I did not book to the preset product, the show failed massively and I immediately dropped in size. If that is going to happen, I won't be buying the game.

 

Again, there is so much to like. And I WANT to like this game. I hope in the next few weeks, Adam makes me love it.

 

Part of that is making sure you have a product that is relatively close to what you want to book. If your product is family entertainment and you book deathmatch, yeah that's a problem. But if you book family entertainment for family entertainment and deathmatch for deathmatch, it's less of a problem.

 

That said, I'm a firm proponent of getting a product editor added in. I like that it enforces consistence from a company but we should be able to lay out the vision and then be held to it.

[Slim Jim]

I’m glad to hear the full release has been pushed back to work on some of the issues raised. I hope no one is expecting a change as extreme as the concept screens posted elsewhere (very attractive though they are).

 

It seems like a lot of the vitriol has dissipated now, which is good. I’m still not convinced some people are necessarily understanding a lot of the complaints. It isn’t about finding change overwhelming or not liking that it isn’t the same as previous versions or just needing to get used to it. Those suggestions are all quite patronising. Adam has clearly acknowledged there are changes that can be made to improve user experience so others continuing to insist that there aren’t problems and people just need to get used to it is odd.

 

Between the artist tweaking the UI to tone down some of the bright lines and colour choices (a couple of the skin mods are helping but I think the official artist working with Adam will likely improve on that effect), and Adam hopefully reorganising the screens (office buttons to have some logic) and increasing font size/row spacing, there is enough to suggest that the game will look much more appealing on release without a complete rip it up and start again remodelling of the entire game.

[Idolized]

For those complaining of the text being small - what screen resolution are you using?

[durgertime]

It's a small thing, but I hope someone in GDS reads it.

 

I think one of the major additions the UI needs, is during shows: More of the screen needs to be allocated to your match and show rating.

 

It sounds like a small thing, but it's one of the most important parts of the entire screen, and even the game. It provides you that positive feedback loop as a reward to good booking. 2016 had it perfect, I loved the graphic of a picture corresponding to the score. Right now the text is so small it feels like the score for the match is completely insignificant.

[mad5226]

Unfortunately, that comes with the territory. Like, when Cyberpunk ships, there will be people who will complain that it doesn't run on their baked potato PCs and the testing team is a bunch of elitists because they run computers that didn't ship with Windows Vista installed. The day one patch will lead to moaning because "it should've been fixed already", despite the game being delayed FOUR TIMES. We've already been spoken to in preparation. People will pan you because you didn't have their specific interests in mind. The "incompetent QA" narrative is common. Wrong, but common. Just know that you did what was asked to the best of your ability. No team, no matter how large, is going to catch every bug in a piece of software. No team, no matter how large, is going to produce a feature set that appeals to everyone. But the ad hominems are par for the course.

 

I've been doing QA in software for over 10 years, and I can't agree more with this statement. I often tell my team that QA is much like being an offensive lineman. YOu're doing the grunt work and the only time you're going to get noticed is when people find things they don't like. I'm been on projects where my team has found literally hundreds of defects that have caused crashes, funny user experiences, and all sorts of nonsense. Then when the product shipped got taken through to task (i think that's the saying) because the client found a handful of UI defects they didn't like.

 

I have no idea what Adam's testing team found, nor does anyone else here, but as someone who has been in the industry for a while, believe me when I say if the main thing people are complaining about is UI then you guys did a heck of a job!