Public Beta Reaction Thread

[Zeel1]

<p>The need to change the descriptors along with the push system might've been slightly over thought, though it does draw attention to the fact that it doesn't work the same anymore. I think the reason is that the old called the workers what they were because you were intended to have people at every given level except for maybe Enhancement Talents, rosters were built with that in mind. And it used to force people into those slots even if really they were far above other people in those same pushes and were almost interchangable with everyone above them after you get to the point where everyone on your roster is super popular.</p><p> </p><p>

It would certainly look more apt to end up with a roster of dozens of major stars than the way it was before, but would it have seemed that odd if instead it listed most of your wrestlers as main eventers? I dunno, to me it wouldn't be since they all reasonably could headline but maybe it'd seem strange to some people to have a whole card where every position has a main eventer. </p><p> </p><p>

Or your whole roster is considered to be Midcarders, I suppose that one actually would be a little strange to consider. Though I can't say I haven't seen promotions in states where that was, indeed, the perception. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

In any event, there's also five positions now instead of six so we were gonna lose one of the descriptors anyway, probably either Opener or Lower Midcarder.</p>

[KyleCamelot]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="FINisher" data-cite="FINisher" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This. On PS4 and on Steam there's sometimes fairly new games at -75 to -91% sale. I don't get it, I really don't. That is why I never buy any new games, with some exceptions (Mount & Blade: Bannerlord and TEW). <img alt=":cool:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/cool.png.f00d2562b2c1d873a09323753efdb041.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> How are you liking Bannerlord? It looked very rough (Early Access so not that surprising,) but I loved the original.</p>

[ZMAN]

There's already a graphics mod out that fixes the bulk of UI problems. The rest of UI issues aren't really a deal breaker for me. Gameplay wise I'm just going with the flow as he releases patches. I guess internet PPV deals are whack? meh whatever

[Andylion]

People complaining about the delay sound like

 

[FINisher]

Patch #21 improved the travel costs - now even people in the same region ask for travel costs if they are not from the same spillover region you are. This is fantastic. I'm now signing people I never gave a chance before and the game world feels more alive. It really feels that they actually are regional stars. Now it's worth asking that they would relocate to your region!

[awesomenessofme1]

I was disappointed at first with the news that workers would require travel costs because, realistic or not, it would make things a lot harder when playing as small companies, but I looked it up in the handbook, and travel costs have been massively nerfed since 2016, so it's not so bad.

 

In 2016 it was:

Long-distance inter-area travel: $750

Short-distance inter-area travel: $250

Long-distance intra-area travel: $100

Short-distance intra-area travel: $50

 

In 2020 it's:

Long-distance inter-area travel: $200

Short-distance inter-area travel: $100

Long-distance intra-area travel: $50

Short-distance intra-area travel: $20

[KevinStorm]

I was disappointed at first with the news that workers would require travel costs because, realistic or not, it would make things a lot harder when playing as small companies, but I looked it up in the handbook, and travel costs have been massively nerfed since 2016, so it's not so bad.

 

In 2016 it was:

Long-distance inter-area travel: $750

Short-distance inter-area travel: $250

Long-distance intra-area travel: $100

Short-distance intra-area travel: $50

 

In 2020 it's:

Long-distance inter-area travel: $200

Short-distance inter-area travel: $100

Long-distance intra-area travel: $50

Short-distance intra-area travel: $20

 

If anything the travel costs seem to be too low. Though the issue is really that there just aren't a lot of workers within a particular region, so bringing in workers from outside is necessary.

[Croquemitaine]

I always felt that low (or ignored) travel costs was the game compensating for the shallow talent pool. I mean, realistically I would never hire a guy from California to work my New York show if he wasn't a draw (and therefore worth the travel costs), but also realistically I wouldn't have to because there'd be thirty to fourty passable workers available in Tri-State.

 

Since it's not practical for the game to run the thousands of extra characters you'd need to effectively populate every region, I think those of us who like running tiny startup feds will have to get used to the idea of creating 10-15 warm bodies in our home regions via the Quick Fill function.

[Remianen]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Derek DiBenedetto" data-cite="Derek DiBenedetto" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>One thing about indie game dev sometimes: work/life balance does tend to suffer a bit, especially around release time. It's a simple thing to get consumed by every customer feedback, complaint and request to the point where its easy to burn out. <p> </p><p> It's happened to me a few times over the last 20+ years, and it isn't pretty, trust me.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Derek, my question to you would be, is it better to work as an indie developer where you don't have a publisher telling you, "I need a finished game in 45 days. Marketing has already started with promotion"? I know several of your contemporaries that have worked with the big developers, burned out on endless crunch, and decided to go indie (whether via Kickstarter, Indiegogo, or smaller publishers) and figured it works best for them to forgo the ridiculous bonuses (that don't stack up when you consider the personal and professional toll of 100+ hr weeks) to do their own thing. From what I hear, Arlie is a peach so dealing with the likes of Bobby Kotich or Andrew Wilson or Yves Guillemot or Steve Sutherland is completely unnecessary if your focus is making good to great games and not simply padding your bank account to the maximum possible level.</p><p> </p><p> I would imagine 'crunch' as an indie developer may not be as intense as for a AAA developer but I'm sure it's not <em>that</em> different.</p>

[Remianen]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="KevinStorm" data-cite="KevinStorm" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If anything the travel costs seem to be too low. Though the issue is really that there just aren't a lot of workers within a particular region, so bringing in workers from outside is necessary.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Have you considered the trade off? Since we can now sign workers to exclusive written deals at SMALL (the equivalent of Regional in TEW16), is this not a feasible tradeoff for that feature? If you know you'll have your top people no matter what for whatever time span you want, coupled with the possible changes to broadcasting (that may still be a boon to small companies, just not as much as it current is)? You'll have your additional income (eventually) and the ability to lock down the people that matter to you. Bringing in someone from another area may only be done when absolutely warranted but now, you have the financial muscle and wherewithal to make that determination without worrying about it crippling you.</p>

[RatedRKO16]

<p>I'm excited and nervous for the release. I really do hope things are mostly fixed and the main issues we've been begging for the past month have been addressed. Release goes as planned. Most people love the game.</p><p> </p><p>

Really don't want to read the forums if that isn't the case.</p><p> </p><p>

I'm not buying the game in this state. However, I really hope I login to the forums on Saturday and people are praising Adam for his hardwork in making a disaster of a beta turn into a solid release.</p>

[Donners]

It is not ideal to have a new UI on the day of release without any chance for people to get used to it. There might be some grumbling about that initially. However, the changes don't seem too drastic, so people should adjust pretty quickly.

[ShaunGBD]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Donners" data-cite="Donners" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It is not ideal to have a new UI on the day of release without any chance for people to get used to it. There might be some grumbling about that initially. However, the changes don't seem too drastic, so people should adjust pretty quickly.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Will say don't think any of this is ideal at this point.</p>

[Lucas]

There was a new UI when the beta dropped and it was panned.

 

If it has discovered a menu system, right click, and scrolling menus then it could be a huge improvement.

 

However there’s about 400 screens in TEW alone with pop ups etc so I’d expect things to be roughly what they are now just easier on the eyes.

 

Looking forward to seeing the full release and giving it another go at least.

[Derek DiBenedetto]

Derek, my question to you would be, is it better to work as an indie developer where you don't have a publisher telling you, "I need a finished game in 45 days.

 

Yep, this is why I prefer being an indie. Crunch usually results in lousy products, so I inherently dislike it and the pressure that goes with it.

 

I've worked with medium or bigger publishers a few times in the past, and while its been mostly ok, there was more release/time pressure and such that made it less fun overall.

 

And i'm happy to confirm that Arlie is fine to work with, never making devs do what they don't feel comfortable with or forcing arbitrary deadlines down their throat.

[BrokenCycle]

It is not ideal to have a new UI on the day of release without any chance for people to get used to it.

 

Unlike the hundreds of other games I've bought without playing beforehand.

[ShaunGBD]

Yep, this is why I prefer being an indie. Crunch usually results in lousy products, so I inherently dislike it and the pressure that goes with it.

 

I've worked with medium or bigger publishers a few times in the past, and while its been mostly ok, there was more release/time pressure and such that made it less fun overall

 

And i'm happy to confirm that Arlie is fine to work with, never making devs do what they don't feel comfortable with or forcing arbitrary deadlines down their throat.

 

Do you think everyone was on board with a delay or do u think one party had to convince the other

[Donners]

Unlike the hundreds of other games I've bought without playing beforehand.

 

It is unlike those games, as you won't have gotten used to one UI only to have it change on the day of release. Not saying that's a huge deal, as I don't think it will be a drastic change, just noting that it may be a little jarring for people who were used to the beta.

 

Will say don't think any of this is ideal at this point.

 

Yeah, like the travel costs thing is a good and necessary change, but it's something which will have an impact on the financial balancing. That could use some testing, which is difficult with the full release imminent.

[Questlove]

It is unlike those games, as you won't have gotten used to one UI only to have it change on the day of release. Not saying that's a huge deal, as I don't think it will be a drastic change, just noting that it may be a little jarring for people who were used to the beta.

 

Is it even changing that much? I thought it was just becoming less ugly.

[awesomenessofme1]

Is it even changing that much? I thought it was just becoming less ugly.

 

At the very least, we know the office screen is being majorly redesigned. There are also a lot of screens we don't know what is being done that could use changes. There's likely to be a decent amount of differences.

[Donners]

It’s really just a muscle memory thing - people are used to a button being in a certain place, and may get a bit frustrated if it’s not where they expect. I’m sure it’ll be fine once everyone re-adjusts.

 

I’ve got my fingers crossed for the changes to skill presentation per this thread - http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=546566

[Xendarii]

The bolded part is absolutely false but if all you know is the gaming market in the West, I can see how you could think that. Free to play games have been the standard in Asia for decades, partially due to the internet cafe culture. (People couldn't/wouldn't generally afford to have consoles or PCs at home so they'd hang out in internet cafes to play games). At least in Korea and much of China. If people in the West would pay $30 for these games, they'd get released at those price points. But Pandora's Box has already been opened so the moment has passed. Many people will wait until a game goes on sale on Steam (or Epic gives it away for free) before paying attention though. They'd rather spend $60 for annualized trash loaded with microtransactions, so that's what they get.

 

Yes, I'm talking exclusively about the Western market because that's the one I know and I'm living in. What you're saying isn't exactly contradicting my statement though. Paying for games was absolutely normal at one point in time (in the Western market). Things have changed, and not for the better.

[Donners]

Bundles have completely changed my buying habits.

 

It feels bizarre to pay more than $20 for a game, when I can get a bunch of good quality games for less than that - and have stacks of good games in my backlog from previous bundles. Subscription services are another challenge; XBox PC Game Pass is only $5 a month. Then there are Epic's freebies.

 

TEW and WMMA are the only games I've spent more than a few dollars on in many years, and I own a couple of thousand across Steam, GOG, Origin and the like.

[Self]

I always felt that low (or ignored) travel costs was the game compensating for the shallow talent pool. I mean, realistically I would never hire a guy from California to work my New York show if he wasn't a draw (and therefore worth the travel costs), but also realistically I wouldn't have to because there'd be thirty to fourty passable workers available in Tri-State.

 

Since it's not practical for the game to run the thousands of extra characters you'd need to effectively populate every region, I think those of us who like running tiny startup feds will have to get used to the idea of creating 10-15 warm bodies in our home regions via the Quick Fill function.

 

I've been playing tiny games using only local talent since the game was released and haven't had a problem. You only need 10-14 wrestlers on a show, and I can usually find enough with the Based In : Near to.... function. Do I have a limited selection? Absolutely. Garbage and nightmares? Sure. You learn to love them.

 

That said I wouldn't say no to a booster pack to 2-3 unknowns per region.

 

EDIT: Admittedly, I've only tried a few regions. Canada was fairly sparse, with some British Columbia starts only having 3 local boys to work with (but plenty in adjacent regions). Australia on the other hand was teeming. Queensland and Victoria boasting more than enough workers for two promotions apiece.

[LoganRodzen]

They'd rather spend $60 for annualized trash loaded with microtransactions, so that's what they get.

 

The $60 games have never made me think "wow, this is a massive step back" and instantly regret the purchase. Much like this is the first time I've opened a new TEW and thought "wow, this is a massive step back" and instantly felt sick. I've given it so many chances. Every time I try I find something missing or something glaringly wrong. 16 years of TEW and learning a system. And now we're told that's just not how TEW2020 works. Sorry but I'm just not cool with that.