Un-nerf Sex Appeal

[tormyb]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="djthefunkchris" data-cite="djthefunkchris" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48355" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> Right now, Tyson Baine would get rated higher in a bikini contest than the sexiest female you can make, as long as she has low popularity. Totally unrealistic. </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I don't know. I'd would 100% take a look at a show, if someone told me that Tyson Baine was going to compete in a bikini contest. Maybe I just need to take a long, hard look at myself (and not at Tyson Baine in a bikini).</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Kamchatka" data-cite="Kamchatka" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48355" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Everyone is talking about this purely from the WWE / SWF point of view.<p> </p><p> It's worth remembering there are real life promotions that regularly use exotic dancers, aerial artists, pole dancers, burlesque acts etc to perform during their shows. These acts would be based under "sex-sells" as an angle, so yes, there can be a lot of skill involved it and its not entirely a standing and looking pretty as a valet function.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Does this not, to some extent, prove the limitations of sex appeal within the wrestling industry?</p><p> </p><p> I'm a pretty casual wrestling viewer. I've seen the WWE shows. I haven't seen any of these companies that incorporate burlesque style acts (etc.) into their shows. That suggests to me that these acts aren't getting that over.</p><p> </p><p> .......................................................................................</p><p> </p><p> It's also important to remember that (I think this was written somewhere in one of the TEW handbooks), that popularity is not just about popping the crowd (I'm not saying that anyone has said this). I feel - very much just my opinion - that there are certain types of performances in wrestling that are good for popping a crowd, but don't really have that much of a lasting impact. Flash a bit of skin, and a certain segment of the audience is almost conditioned to cheer. It's like mentioning someone's home town, they're conditioned to react, even if they don't really care and will forget about it moments later. I think that sometimes (not necessarily always, I don't watch widely enough to know) sex appeal angles are conducive to a more temporarily raucous crowd more than they are to much lasting impact.</p><p> </p><p> An absolute killer promo may well be done to a much quieter crowd than a bikini contest - not because they are less into it - but because the nature of the segment is that they need to shut up and listen. I think a lot of sex appeal segments seem deceptively more over than they are, because the natural crowd reaction is more raucous than for some other types of segment.</p><p> </p><p> In TEW terms, I don't think an angle needs to necessarily get a good rating to entertain the live crowd in the short term. In the case of matches, in TEW 16 (sorry haven't played enough 20 yet), you could get notes telling you that a match had "great heat" but which don't get great ratings. The angle/match/show rating seems, to me at least, to be a measure of the lasting impact of a show, more than just whether people enjoy it or not. I would describe extreme expose (or similar) as segments with low ratings but better crowd heat. As someone who wasn't watching much wrestling at the time, I don't think I had any idea who Kelly Kelly was until a couple of years later when she was wrestling more. I think those segments were popping people who were already watching (i.e. performed to a hot crowd), but with lower performance ratings (Kelly Kellly has admitted herself, that she wasn't much of a dancer). I would argue that the segment ratings should be relatively low for that, even if the crowd reacted notably, because they didn't really have much impact beyond that. I don't think they grew the company at all, and as crowd popping midcard segments, low (even awful) ratings are fine.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="djthefunkchris" data-cite="djthefunkchris" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48355" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> Your talking pops like Santino got, rated on comedy, and I agree. I'm saying rate it on Sex Appeal. He's not winning nothing legit rated on sex appeal, I don't care how famous he is.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This sort of highlights one of the nuances that TEW doesn't really reflect in wrestling. Segments are not, in reality, based on any one, two, three, four (whatever number) of skills in real life. Two different workers could be booked to do the exact same thing, carry out what they are told to do to the letter, but the crowd would react to different elements of them without the angle needing to be specifically booked for that thing. Bookers can emphasise elements of performers, but they don't decide what segments are being rated on, fans do.</p><p> </p><p> When Kelly Kelly danced, she wasn't just being rated on sex appeal and popularity. She was being judged on those things, but also a degree of charisma, and star quality, maybe even athleticism to an extent, and probably loads of other little things. Maybe someone didn't like her, but they liked her clothes. Maybe someone didn't like her or the clothes, but they really thought it was a nice chair she was dancing around. Every viewer probably shifted their perception of it based on a slightly different range and balance of factors. If Santino did the exact same thing as Kelly, the crowd would react to different elements of it, even if every minute detail of his performance and the booking was the same.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Sorry for the rambling post. I'm off to book Tyson Baine in a bikini contest.</p>

[Croquemitaine]

<p>The game could eliminate the "ugly person with high pop" getting good ratings in Sex Appeal angle roles by capping the rating calculation used at their actual Sex Appeal.</p><p> </p><p>

For example: Somene with 80 SA and 40 Pop would be rated at 52 ((80x0.3=24)+(40x0.7=28)), but someone with 40 SA and 80 pop would be capped at 40 instead of getting the calculated 68 ((40x0.3=12)+(80x0.7=56)).</p><p> </p><p>

For the record, if you for some reason <em>wanted </em>to run a comedy segment where an unattractive character parades around in a bikini, that should be rated on Charisma rather than Sex Appeal.</p><p> </p><p>

I'd also like to point out that the rating for a Sex Appeal angle is not a measure of how "sexy" it was, but rather a rating of how much the audience cared about the segment. My personal experience/observation/opinion is that most wrestling fans don't get all that worked up about random sexiness in their wrestling shows. That doesn't mean they hate them or don't enjoy seeing attractive women (or men), but that they're not particularly engaged. Unless it's someone who's already popular or who's bringing other entertainment skills into the mix.</p><p> </p><p>

Having written that last line, I'm wondering if Charisma should be factored into the calculation for Sex Appeal angle roles.</p><p> </p><p>

All that being said, I'd personally like to see the calculations for both Sex Appeal and Menace roles bumped to 40/60*. Given the other limits and penalties applied to such angle roles, I don't think that would be out of line.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>

*EDIT: Edited to clarify I meant 40 SA/Menace, 60 Pop. Not the other way around. I believe they were both 60/40 in 2016, so this is still a nerf.</p>

[SirMichaelJordan]

<p>I believe it was 40/60 in TEW 2016 </p><p> </p><p>

But that was with managers not gaining any popularity from simply being a manager of a popular worker.</p><p> </p><p>

I can see how it can get OP when someone is actively gaining popularity from doing nothing but being at ring side then the ability to also put them in menacing or sex appeal segments that would rate high because their sex appeal/menace is high and popularity is actively growing.</p><p> </p><p>

I’m not sure if there is a cap on the amount of rub a manager gets or if it should be a cap. That’s for another thread.</p>

[awesomenessofme1]

I believe it was 40/60 in TEW 2016

 

60/40 actually. And maybe that was still too powerful, but 30/70 is way too far in the other direction.

[cwamaniac]

Honestly I’d go back to 60/40

 

If that’s where the old 16 setting was, it made using sex appeal viable without being able to rely on it after awhile, I used to book an eye candy division inside my normal women’s division used to get solid ratings but nothing crazy, now I don’t think I could even consider it if we are keeping the same formula for rating it’ll make the stat near pointless and kill off any reason to try sex appeal promotion in the product list.

[Blackman]

Haven't read anything but some people are confused on the sex appeal. Val Venis had a lot of sex appeal. For a big part due to the gimmick, and that's not how the game works, but he seems to have had it. The Rock and Roll express had it. Imo Tessa Blanchard has it, but she would have below average looks. So a big part is demeanor.

 

Personally I'm fine with this change. Fame does add to this. Say what you will but Rousey isn't such a looker either, but people were all over her. WCW could pick any street girl that looks smoking hot, but put her in the ring for a bikini contest, and NOBODY CARES. Thàt's why it was overpowered a little. They will eventually care more about the girl, though, and she could develop in a nice valet, but the initial segment was 'meh'.

[Bull]

I'm genuinely curious why it keeps being brought up how you can get better grades puting a super over person in these kinds of angles rated on something they have no business being rated on?

 

In what circumstance would you ever put Tyson Baine or Remo or whoever in an angle where they are rated on Sex Appeal or based on any stat/skill they are poor in? Wouldn't you just use Star Quality or Menace, or whatever is going to play to their strengths? Doing anything otherwise would mean it's meant to be comedy in my eyes. .

 

 

And from an equation and functional stand point they are all calculated the exact same way other than Menace which is on a 25/75 scale. . the only real nerf in place for sex appeal is is the cap it gets from the product you're using

 

So if you take a worker who has 100 Sex Appeal and 100 Star Quality, take out any other factors they will get the exact same grade relative to their popularity regardless of which of the two is used in an angle. And I think it's a fair balance, because again, if you're goal is book wrestling, looks are only a fraction what's needed to be successful, other skills are needed and you should be expected to play to those workers other strengths to get them over.

 

And if you're pushing a product that is heavily geared towards Sex Appeal, you still need popular/over workers to get people to want to show up, otherwise what makes it any different from rolling up to any random Strip Club lol?

 

Heck in my opinion, if anything there should be something in place that would make a segment bomb for having someone rated on SQ, SA, or Menace, when they have poor values in those stats. . Because you are essentially booking them to look bad or foolish.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Haven't read anything but some people are confused on the sex appeal. Val Venis had a lot of sex appeal. For a big part due to the gimmick, and that's not how the game works, but he seems to have had it. The Rock and Roll express had it. Imo Tessa Blanchard has it, but she would have below average looks. So a big part is demeanor.

 

Personally I'm fine with this change. Fame does add to this. Say what you will but Rousey isn't such a looker either, but people were all over her. WCW could pick any street girl that looks smoking hot, but put her in the ring for a bikini contest, and NOBODY CARES. Thàt's why it was overpowered a little. They will eventually care more about the girl, though, and she could develop in a nice valet, but the initial segment was 'meh'.

 

Yea I’m willing to bet Ronda would draw more attention in a bikini contest than Kelly Kelly (or insert your idea of sexy here)

 

Because Ronda is more popular. I agree.

[BuddyGarner]

I think sex appeal is still real good. It factors in entertainment angles. You can use the eye candy match aim.

 

I think it's menace that needs to be unnerfed.

[awesomenessofme1]

Heck in my opinion, if anything there should be something in place that would make a segment bomb for having someone rated on SQ, SA, or Menace, when they have poor values in those stats. . Because you are essentially booking them to look bad or foolish.

 

Something like this would make it fine. Or the suggestion from earlier in this thread to cap effective skill as equal to Sex Appeal. Just something to make it more reasonable.

[Kamchatka]

The only problem I have with your idea, is that is what Sex Appeal is supposed to be. Someone that has a hot body, but everything else about them is horrible, they don't get a high grade in Sex Appeal. There are plenty of examples when you look at the body types. Plenty have a body like Valiant (Tyson Baine for example... again), but he has that extra swag called Sex Appeal that Tyson cannot compete with... However although he has a body like Tyson, he's not scaring no one like Tyson can because he lacks that Menacing look Tyson can give.

 

If we use your idea, then I would think we would need a stat called something like "SINISTER", because although he has a menacing look, he needs to be Sinister to really be good at it.

 

I never said you need another stat, just that you can bring in an attribute to give to professionals who work in the erotic industry.

 

If a menacing character has something in their background that lends itself to them being more intimidating in a menace focused angle then yeah i'd say you could find attributes to help that.

 

"Sex Appeal is a measurement of how attractive someone is" and "Menace is how menacing a worker looks" (that's the quote from the handbook). Both of these stats help workers in things they do outside of menace or sex sells focused angles, so what im saying is that if a woman has the training of a pole dancer, then she doesn't suddenly look more attractive, so she shouldn't get a bump to her sex appeal stat where it would be as if she was continually pole dancing forever in life, but should get a small bonus to sexy performance work where its primary the focus (and not where its not the primary focus).

 

Because Hannah is currently one of the 'hottest' women in the Cverse, so shes really attractive but she doesn't have the physical skillset that the BSC performers have. Her popularity and high sex appeal would likely be enough to muddle her way through a BSC type match, but Dharma Gregg would have real moves.

 

It's not a call for sex appeal performance simulator, just a small token gesture to recognising that all these exotic dancers that have been added to the game are not merely women who look pretty and give them a tiny boost to doing sex appeal primary focused angles where they are performing centre stage so those of us who want to book wrestling promotions that use eye-candy or sex sells primary angles have a reason to use women who are talented in that as performance rather than just any attractive woman in the universe.

 

Does this not, to some extent, prove the limitations of sex appeal within the wrestling industry?

 

I'm a pretty casual wrestling viewer. I've seen the WWE shows. I haven't seen any of these companies that incorporate burlesque style acts (etc.) into their shows. That suggests to me that these acts aren't getting that over.

 

No it would be the limitation of your knowledge of the industry.

 

WWE runs a PG brand, they're not going to suddenly have a burlesque strip tease. But if you go to Lucha VaVOOM in LA then the reason you're booking your ticket is 50% to go see some sexy stuff and you'd definitely be unhappy if it was just some women stood in a ring who look attractive rather than world class burlesque performers doing amazing routines. It's a different product and more adult products of entertainment use sexual performers in a way that isn't derogatory or second fiddle like WWE and TNA famously have done.

[SirMichaelJordan]

I never said you need another stat, just that you can bring in an attribute to give to professionals who work in the erotic industry.

 

If a menacing character has something in their background that lends itself to them being more intimidating in a menace focused angle then yeah i'd say you could find attributes to help that.

 

"Sex Appeal is a measurement of how attractive someone is" and "Menace is how menacing a worker looks" (that's the quote from the handbook). Both of these stats help workers in things they do outside of menace or sex sells focused angles, so what im saying is that if a woman has the training of a pole dancer, then she doesn't suddenly look more attractive, so she shouldn't get a bump to her sex appeal stat where it would be as if she was continually pole dancing forever in life, but should get a small bonus to sexy performance work where its primary the focus (and not where its not the primary focus).

 

Because Hannah is currently one of the 'hottest' women in the Cverse, so shes really attractive but she doesn't have the physical skillset that the BSC performers have. Her popularity and high sex appeal would likely be enough to muddle her way through a BSC type match, but Dharma Gregg would have real moves.

 

It's not a call for sex appeal performance simulator, just a small token gesture to recognising that all these exotic dancers that have been added to the game are not merely women who look pretty and give them a tiny boost to doing sex appeal primary focused angles where they are performing centre stage so those of us who want to book wrestling promotions that use eye-candy or sex sells primary angles have a reason to use women who are talented in that as performance rather than just any attractive woman in the universe.

 

Isn’t this already accounted for with gimmicks?

[Croquemitaine]

Bull makes a good point. If someone's popularity is higher than their Sex Appeal, then you'll always get a better result just rating them on straight Overness. So other than protecting people from the consequences of making an inexplicably poor booking choice, this particular issue isn't something that really needs to be addressed.

 

I still think that, especially with the new calculations for Sex Appeal roles and the penalties for using them in longer angles, some of the product-related penalties should be dispensed with.

 

- "Angle roles rated on Sex Appeal will be penalized" doesn't need to be applied to any product that isn't specifically targeted as "family-friendly" or something similar.

 

- "Angles rated primarily on Sex Appeal will have their results limited" which was universally applied in the last few versions of the game, should still apply to all but highly risque products.

[Kamchatka]

Isn’t this already accounted for with gimmicks?

 

Being a trained dancer isn't a gimmick tho? It's an attribute. Just like being a Movie Star or a Model are (both already attributes in the game).

 

Gimmicks would be given on top, so that one BSC worker is a trained exotic dancer who is a catholic nun, another is a trained exotic dancer who is a police officer etc. Their gimmicks can go up or down on their performances but they still will always have their attribute in dance that helps them in their segments, as well as their sex appeal stat but that declines rapidly with age.

[Bull]

I never said you need another stat, just that you can bring in an attribute to give to professionals who work in the erotic industry.

 

If a menacing character has something in their background that lends itself to them being more intimidating in a menace focused angle then yeah i'd say you could find attributes to help that.

 

"Sex Appeal is a measurement of how attractive someone is" and "Menace is how menacing a worker looks" (that's the quote from the handbook). Both of these stats help workers in things they do outside of menace or sex sells focused angles, so what im saying is that if a woman has the training of a pole dancer, then she doesn't suddenly look more attractive, so she shouldn't get a bump to her sex appeal stat where it would be as if she was continually pole dancing forever in life, but should get a small bonus to sexy performance work where its primary the focus (and not where its not the primary focus).

 

Because Hannah is currently one of the 'hottest' women in the Cverse, so shes really attractive but she doesn't have the physical skillset that the BSC performers have. Her popularity and high sex appeal would likely be enough to muddle her way through a BSC type match, but Dharma Gregg would have real moves.

 

It's not a call for sex appeal performance simulator, just a small token gesture to recognising that all these exotic dancers that have been added to the game are not merely women who look pretty and give them a tiny boost to doing sex appeal primary focused angles where they are performing centre stage so those of us who want to book wrestling promotions that use eye-candy or sex sells primary angles have a reason to use women who are talented in that as performance rather than just any attractive woman in the universe.

 

 

 

No it would be the limitation of your knowledge of the industry.

 

WWE runs a PG brand, they're not going to suddenly have a burlesque strip tease. But if you go to Lucha VaVOOM in LA then the reason you're booking your ticket is 50% to go see some sexy stuff and you'd definitely be unhappy if it was just some women stood in a ring who look attractive rather than world class burlesque performers doing amazing routines. It's a different product and more adult products of entertainment use sexual performers in a way that isn't derogatory or second fiddle like WWE and TNA famously have done.

 

See to me you wouldn't be booking a angle rated purely on Sex Appeal there, that would be an Entertainment based angle as they are actively doing something to entertain the audience not just standing around looking good. . And their Sex Appeal is already going to give them a bonus to that. and in matches there are already a litany of other things that can affect the grades there and assuming the product is highly based on Sex appeal having a good rating in the stat is only going to boost said grade.

 

 

 

My whole argument here is that if worker is rated solely on their looks whether it's Star Quality, Menace or in this case Sex Appeal, the ratio it's currently graded on is a fair ratio to have, because people aren't paying to to just watch someone stand around and look good. .

[SirMichaelJordan]

Being a trained dancer isn't a gimmick tho? It's an attribute. Just like being a Movie Star or a Model are (both already attributes in the game).

 

Gimmicks would be given on top, so that one BSC worker is a trained exotic dancer who is a catholic nun, another is a trained exotic dancer who is a police officer etc. Their gimmicks can go up or down on their performances but they still will always have their attribute in dance that helps them in their segments, as well as their sex appeal stat but that declines rapidly with age.

 

Those attributes are in the game for something totally different though.

 

Dancing is a niche in the wrestling world so I am not sure why we need a attribute for it. That would fall under sex appeal and charisma tbh.

[Thane of Fife]

See to me you wouldn't be booking a angle rated purely on Sex Appeal there, that would be an Entertainment based angle as they are actively doing something to entertain the audience not just standing around looking good. . And their Sex Appeal is already going to give them a bonus to that. and in matches there are already a litany of other things that can affect the grades there and assuming the product is highly based on Sex appeal having a good rating in the stat is only going to boost said grade.

 

 

 

My whole argument here is that if worker is rated solely on their looks whether it's Star Quality, Menace or in this case Sex Appeal, the ratio it's currently graded on is a fair ratio to have, because people aren't paying to to just watch someone stand around and look good. .

 

I think part of the "problem" (for lack of a better word) is that some people want to book shows that are wrestling-adjacent. Like a variety show or a burlesque that happens to have a strong element of wrestling to it. In real life, you could look at Lucha VaVOOM (I assume). The game has the Skit Show product. BSC was described as having heavy improv comedy elements if I recall correctly. It's not hard to imagine that something like GSW could have crossover with rap elements. There are tons of possible talents that could be mixed in with wrestling - dancing, singing, violin, stand-up comedy, and the list goes on. And in a show that heavily relied on these, it would be important that workers were good at them, not just popular.

 

None of these things are really represented in the game, because, frankly, it's a game about wrestling. But there's no real reason to think that someone who's great on the mike (like the Rock) would be a great stand-up comedian. So it always feels kind of unsatisfying if you're trying to run something like this.

 

 

 

All that said, I think that for the basic, wrestling-focused products, I'm good with sex appeal being shifted to be more pop-focused. High sex appeal should help you get over faster; it shouldn't just give you great ratings off the bat.

[cwamaniac]

Honestly while I’m not against the idea completely

 

I feel we should make sure sex appeal is actually balanced and viable to use before we add additional attributes with it in mind, It seems some people here are stuck on the popularity over skill argument which is only part of the issue , yes popularity should have a noticeable effect in the calculation than sex appeal

 

But with the 30/70 split it just makes eye candy matches and angles unviable after a while, when add to the caps I’ve seen as a test I ran an eye candy match with two women at 100 sex appeal and 0 popularity, and another test with 2 women at 100 sex appeal and popularity

 

The matches got the following in the Risqué Adult Product (it’s important to note the show I ran has 0 popularity or importance and the women have zero on actual in ring ability except safety, Stamina, Experience, Basics, And Psychology, I also have no announcers, and the road agent is Java who has 73 psychology, 100 experience and Respect )

 

The product penalizes any segments over 5 minutes :/ even if Sex Appeal isn’t the focus or even in the segment the 2 100 popularity girls with zero mic skill got a 45 btw in their modern tv opening

 

Match 1 with a zero pop vs a zero pop bombshell end up getting a 47 (honestly 100 psychology was probably a bad idea to test this but some one might be able to use this data)

 

Match 2 with 100 pop workers and same stats to the other two girls got a 79

 

Other detail I noticed is even in this product style 15 minutes is too long a match for an eye candy bout

 

So hopefully this data helps a bit as the fact is if a women wrestler achieves 100 psychology then you probably aren’t sticking them in an eye candy match at all thus these rating would likely be much lower is 79 the absolute max an eye candy match should be able to do is the question I guess? Personally I’d go with 85 but that’s just my opinion curious what others “cap” would be, I’m sure I didn’t test everything I could have but hopefully this is useful to someone

[djthefunkchris]

Sorry for the rambling post. I'm off to book Tyson Baine in a bikini contest.

And if I didn't do anything else, I done that for you!!

 

Yeah it's a tough one here, because after all your thoughts, you have to take into consideration what Remi was talking about. We don't know EXACTLY how things are weighted, obviously product settings (like Self mentioned) have a part in this as well. All we know is the base- Tew2016= 60% of Sex Appeal and 40% of popularity, Tew2020, 30% Sex Appeal, 70% popularity.

 

If it was rated 50/50, would that make someone that is 50% popular and have a 50 SA score, get a 100 rating for a SA segment? Would that be right? I say maybe depending on what Self brought up, which is product settings.

 

All your performance skills have to be useful for what they are for. I'm fighting for SA because that's the topic. A win here is a win for any of the rest that were nerfed as well. The way it is now is like WWE on steroids. It's like the exact thing everyone was hating on when I first found GDS forums. (TnA is the bestest!!). They finally convinced me this is NOT the way to go, and switched it all around on me after convincing me. I've been scratching my head on tons of the decisions made on this version because of this.

 

For me, Charisma is charm/connecting with the crowd without verbal interaction. Microphone is cutting promos, talk with confidence, etc., Acting is acting, performance in angles/skits, etc., Star Quality is the "it" factor. People that just have an aura around them, Sex Appeal used in eye candy matches and the basis (key words here) of the worker's performance and in angles that are specifically rated on it, Menace is how menacing they look, used specifically in angles rated on it. In the handbook is where I am getting this, Menace is said not to be an important skill. I feel like it should be pretty important, as wrestling is the bad guy vs the good guy in most popular products... all over the world, everywhere, no exceptions where it's not the most popular. So I feel like Menace shouldn't be downplayed like that, although it's probably not meant to be taken the way I'm taking it.

 

My point about the "being good at being sexy" basically is the part where the handbook says it is the basis of the worker's performance is SA angles or eye candy matches. To me, popularity should matter, but no where near where it is right now.

 

It's like if we have a long jump contest, and the most popular person jumps exactly one inch, against an unknown that jumps 12 feet, we are going to pick the more popular guy as the winner of the long jump. This is what we are doing here... Are there really only three or four people that actually understand this? You can say this or that matters with it, but just reading the handbook, these things are covered in the stat. Sex Appeal means sexy, not just a pretty girl with no style, the higher the SA the more they ooze sexiness. The higher the Menace, the more they ooze menace. (sounded kind of gross, but you get the meaning).

[Bull]

I feel we should make sure sex appeal is actually balanced and viable to use before we add additional attributes with it in mind, It seems some people here are stuck on the popularity over skill argument which is only part of the issue , yes popularity should have a noticeable effect in the calculation than sex appeal

 

But with the 30/70 split it just makes eye candy matches and angles unviable after a while, when add to the caps I’ve seen as a test I ran an eye candy match with two women at 100 sex appeal and 0 popularity, and another test with 2 women at 100 sex appeal and popularity

 

The matches got the following in the Risqué Adult Product (it’s important to note the show I ran has 0 popularity or importance and the women have zero on actual in ring ability except safety, Stamina, Experience, Basics, And Psychology, I also have no announcers, and the road agent is Java who has 73 psychology, 100 experience and Respect )

 

The product penalizes any segments over 5 minutes :/ even if Sex Appeal isn’t the focus or even in the segment the 2 100 popularity girls with zero mic skill got a 45 btw in their modern tv opening

 

Match 1 with a zero pop vs a zero pop bombshell end up getting a 47 (honestly 100 psychology was probably a bad idea to test this but some one might be able to use this data)

 

Match 2 with 100 pop workers and same stats to the other two girls got a 79

 

Other detail I noticed is even in this product style 15 minutes is too long a match for an eye candy bout

 

So hopefully this data helps a bit as the fact is if a women wrestler achieves 100 psychology then you probably aren’t sticking them in an eye candy match at all thus these rating would likely be much lower is 79 the absolute max an eye candy match should be able to do is the question I guess? Personally I’d go with 85 but that’s just my opinion curious what others “cap” would be, I’m sure I didn’t test everything I could have but hopefully this is useful to someone

 

I mean I think 70-80 is an acceptable range for the absolute best eye candy match ever presented. .

 

and I might be mistaken but the whole 30 to 70 split is solely for angles rated on Sex Appeal. . Matches will have the Pop vs. performance split based on your product. . and the risque adult product heavily favours popularity, like an 80/20 split.

[Kamchatka]

Dancing is a niche in the wrestling world

 

"Maggle look, the bull is twerking! He's twerkin!"

 

"They're all fandangoing!"

 

"Somebody call my Momma!"

 

There are at least 27 professional dancers in the game. There is 1 movie star.

[djthefunkchris]

I feel we should make sure sex appeal is actually balanced and viable to use before we add additional attributes with it in mind, It seems some people here are stuck on the popularity over skill argument which is only part of the issue , yes popularity should have a noticeable effect in the calculation than sex appeal

 

But with the 30/70 split it just makes eye candy matches and angles unviable after a while, when add to the caps I’ve seen as a test I ran an eye candy match with two women at 100 sex appeal and 0 popularity, and another test with 2 women at 100 sex appeal and popularity

 

The matches got the following in the Risqué Adult Product (it’s important to note the show I ran has 0 popularity or importance and the women have zero on actual in ring ability except safety, Stamina, Experience, Basics, And Psychology, I also have no announcers, and the road agent is Java who has 73 psychology, 100 experience and Respect )

 

The product penalizes any segments over 5 minutes :/ even if Sex Appeal isn’t the focus or even in the segment the 2 100 popularity girls with zero mic skill got a 45 btw in their modern tv opening

 

Match 1 with a zero pop vs a zero pop bombshell end up getting a 47 (honestly 100 psychology was probably a bad idea to test this but some one might be able to use this data)

 

Match 2 with 100 pop workers and same stats to the other two girls got a 79

 

Other detail I noticed is even in this product style 15 minutes is too long a match for an eye candy bout

 

So hopefully this data helps a bit as the fact is if a women wrestler achieves 100 psychology then you probably aren’t sticking them in an eye candy match at all thus these rating would likely be much lower is 79 the absolute max an eye candy match should be able to do is the question I guess? Personally I’d go with 85 but that’s just my opinion curious what others “cap” would be, I’m sure I didn’t test everything I could have but hopefully this is useful to someone

Maybe that's a work around though. Just up the psychology of the sexy ones, and maybe that will bring them to where they should be in that type of bout. Problem is, some of them sure don't deserve the boost it would give them in a normal match.

[djthefunkchris]

"Maggle look, the bull is twerking! He's twerkin!"

 

"They're all fandangoing!"

 

"Somebody call my Momma!"

 

There are at least 27 professional dancers in the game. There is 1 movie star.

 

So unfair...bring back the Funkadactyls!!

[Kamchatka]

Maybe that's a work around though. Just up the psychology of the sexy ones, and maybe that will bring them to where they should be in that type of bout. Problem is, some of them sure don't deserve the boost it would give them in a normal match.

 

This is why i suggested an attribute instead. Give an attribute that helps them in only that one area, but wouldn't boost them in other fields of wrestling.

[Bull]

And if I didn't do anything else, I done that for you!!

 

Yeah it's a tough one here, because after all your thoughts, you have to take into consideration what Remi was talking about. We don't know EXACTLY how things are weighted, obviously product settings (like Self mentioned) have a part in this as well. All we know is the base- Tew2016= 60% of Sex Appeal and 40% of popularity, Tew2020, 30% Sex Appeal, 70% popularity.

 

If it was rated 50/50, would that make someone that is 50% popular and have a 50 SA score, get a 100 rating for a SA segment? Would that be right? I say maybe depending on what Self brought up, which is product settings.

 

All your performance skills have to be useful for what they are for. I'm fighting for SA because that's the topic. A win here is a win for any of the rest that were nerfed as well. The way it is now is like WWE on steroids. It's like the exact thing everyone was hating on when I first found GDS forums. (TnA is the bestest!!). They finally convinced me this is NOT the way to go, and switched it all around on me after convincing me. I've been scratching my head on tons of the decisions made on this version because of this.

 

For me, Charisma is charm/connecting with the crowd without verbal interaction. Microphone is cutting promos, talk with confidence, etc., Acting is acting, performance in angles/skits, etc., Star Quality is the "it" factor. People that just have an aura around them, Sex Appeal used in eye candy matches and the basis (key words here) of the worker's performance and in angles that are specifically rated on it, Menace is how menacing they look, used specifically in angles rated on it. In the handbook is where I am getting this, Menace is said not to be an important skill. I feel like it should be pretty important, as wrestling is the bad guy vs the good guy in most popular products... all over the world, everywhere, no exceptions where it's not the most popular. So I feel like Menace shouldn't be downplayed like that, although it's probably not meant to be taken the way I'm taking it.

 

My point about the "being good at being sexy" basically is the part where the handbook says it is the basis of the worker's performance is SA angles or eye candy matches. To me, popularity should matter, but no where near where it is right now.

 

It's like if we have a long jump contest, and the most popular person jumps exactly one inch, against an unknown that jumps 12 feet, we are going to pick the more popular guy as the winner of the long jump. This is what we are doing here... Are there really only three or four people that actually understand this? You can say this or that matters with it, but just reading the handbook, these things are covered in the stat. Sex Appeal means sexy, not just a pretty girl with no style, the higher the SA the more they ooze sexiness. The higher the Menace, the more they ooze menace. (sounded kind of gross, but you get the meaning).

 

The handbook section about angles also says that Rated on Sex Appeal is the worker doing something entirely based on their looks. . So if it's 100 SA and 100 Popularity vs. 100 SA and 0 Popularity should the less popular worker get even close to the same grade? If you alter the ratio then it unbalances that aspect to me. . The super over Super Sexy worker should get a better reaction than the super sexy unknown. .