Un-nerf Sex Appeal

[awesomenessofme1]

I'm not talking about product penalties, I find those reasonable for the most part. I'm talking about the actual angle rating. In 2016, it was based on 60% of Sex Appeal and 40% of popularity, while in 2020, it's only 30% Sex Appeal, 70% popularity. As it stands now, if you're playing a Risque-based company and bring in an unknown supermodel (100 SA, 0 pop) and put her in a Sex Appeal based angle, she would have an effective "skill" of only 30. I feel like in that circumstance, people would be totally accepting of the situation. Maybe the 2016 way was too generous, but the new way just doesn't make sense.

[daddytorgo1]

I'm not talking about product penalties, I find those reasonable for the most part. I'm talking about the actual angle rating. In 2016, it was based on 60% of Sex Appeal and 40% of popularity, while in 2020, it's only 30% Sex Appeal, 70% popularity. As it stands now, if you're playing a Risque-based company and bring in an unknown supermodel (100 SA, 0 pop) and put her in a Sex Appeal based angle, she would have an effective "skill" of only 30. I feel like in that circumstance, people would be totally accepting of the situation. Maybe the 2016 way was too generous, but the new way just doesn't make sense.

 

Seconded. Personally I enjoy having attractive managers who can generate positive crowd reactions. So sue me, I'm a guy. Would be nice if when I bring in a manager who is 90 sex appeal she is actually useful.

 

I guess the alternative is just going into the editor and artifically bumping up their popularity with the rationale of "attractive ladies are popular" though?

[cwamaniac]

I agree it needs a bit tweaked

 

I never honestly had an issue with it 2016 why not just return to that setting?

[djthefunkchris]

Yeah, I mean Layla El, Maryse, Kelly Kelly, Christy Hemme, Candice Michelle, and Torrie Wilson become some of the most famous women wrestlers ever, because of their awesome in ring work and great mic skills.

[Vinsmoker]

Yeah, I mean Layla El, Maryse, Kelly Kelly, Christy Hemme, Candice Michelle, and Torrie Wilson become some of the most famous women wrestlers ever, because of their awesome in ring work and great mic skills.

 

They are not. Not by a long shot. Besides Maryse (who has a Reality TV show on air) and Kelly Kelly (who actually was the face of the division for a while and also has a TV show on air) none of them are remotely close to being the most famous women wrestlers ever. They are not even the most famour women wrestlers out of their own era. It was precisely the "sex appeal" rating that gave them a reaction. But concerning the actual "popularity" rating, they are easily replacable. As the OP stated...A unknown Supermodel with 100 SA and 0 Pop would also get a positive reaction from the audience, even though nobody knows who that person is. That is what you got with the list of names you gave in your post.

 

Considering actual fame, though, they don't hold a candle to Chyna, Lita, Trish Stratus, Ronda Rousey, Charlotte, Becky Lynch or Moolah.

I would argue that even the likes of Beth Phoenix, Mickie James, Gail Kim, Paige, AJ Lee, Victoria, Natalya & co are a step above them (except K2).

 

The women that the WWE hired soley based on sex appeal have always faired worse in the long run, than those with in-ring talent and/or charisma.

[Blackman]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="djthefunkchris" data-cite="djthefunkchris" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48355" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yeah, I mean Layla El, Maryse, Kelly Kelly, Christy Hemme, Candice Michelle, and Torrie Wilson</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Hemme? You crack me up, buddy. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> Agree about Torrie, but she kinda stood out as there was almost no one else in that role.</p><p> </p><p> I think the changes make sense. The problem is that - in almost all products - sex angles are severely penalized. So I don't really want to host them. In previous games, it was way too easy to exploit though.</p><p> </p><p> And then there's Attitude entertainment, that DEMANDS a T&A-match every damn show? I didn't watch all of the Attitude era, but it was not a common match type, never mind one for each show...</p>

[SirMichaelJordan]

<p>T&A matches were still throwaway matches.</p><p> </p><p>

Most of those woman got over from being in hot storylines which usually involved a more popular wrestler. Everyone had a storyline during the Attitude Era</p><p> </p><p>

Some of those woman were so terrible in the ring that a penalized bra n panties match would probably rate better than a singles match if the mod was right.</p>

[Blackman]

T&A matches were still throwaway matches.

 

Yes, but I don't want to be forced to have a B&P match on every show. I guess most fans wouldn't mind this, but I have a hard time believing they expected this, and it's penalizing you for having unrealistic expectations.

[KD637]

I would say that sex appeal defiantly needed a nerf from 2016.

I set most of my angles on 2016 up with Sex Appeal vs Menace even when they were not using these statistics in the angle.

 

YES Sex Appeal was / is something just look at the attitude era but also when your using guys who have the microphone skill of Roman Reigns you have to start gaming it with Sex appeal and menace.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Yes, but I don't want to be forced to have a B&P match on every show. I guess most fans wouldn't mind this, but I have a hard time believing they expected this, and it's penalizing you for having unrealistic expectations.

 

Eye candy matches can have different finishes so it doesn’t technically have to be a B&P match. Lol it can be a Santa’s Helper match or a pillow fight. The main point is that none of those woman were rated on actual fighting skills. It’s a reason why Lita and Trish were some of the only woman having real matches, it’s because they had the skills to do so. The other woman not so much so their sex appeal replaced it. Despite the penalty, eye candy match should rate better than what their actual skills were.

 

I rather have Franchine run to the ring to attack (strip) Dawn Marie in Angle rated on sex appeal and score a 25 (random number) than to have them in a angle rated on entertainment and score a 10 (another random number) lol

[djthefunkchris]

They are not. Not by a long shot. Besides Maryse (who has a Reality TV show on air) and Kelly Kelly (who actually was the face of the division for a while and also has a TV show on air) none of them are remotely close to being the most famous women wrestlers ever. They are not even the most famour women wrestlers out of their own era. It was precisely the "sex appeal" rating that gave them a reaction. But concerning the actual "popularity" rating, they are easily replacable. As the OP stated...A unknown Supermodel with 100 SA and 0 Pop would also get a positive reaction from the audience, even though nobody knows who that person is. That is what you got with the list of names you gave in your post.

 

Considering actual fame, though, they don't hold a candle to Chyna, Lita, Trish Stratus, Ronda Rousey, Charlotte, Becky Lynch or Moolah.

I would argue that even the likes of Beth Phoenix, Mickie James, Gail Kim, Paige, AJ Lee, Victoria, Natalya & co are a step above them (except K2).

 

The women that the WWE hired soley based on sex appeal have always faired worse in the long run, than those with in-ring talent and/or charisma.

 

My post was meant to be a bit tongue n cheek as Blackman caught onto... but it might be fun to compare some things.

 

As far as in ring work, obviously I agree with you 100%.

 

I would respectfully debate you on Trish, Lita, AJ, and even Victoria not being hired for looks... Yeah, Some were already good (Lita and Victoria...somewhat), Some got good (Trish), and some are just awesome (AJ). But I would debate that their Sex Appeal had tons to do with them being used, at least at first. I would even say most of their fame came because of their looks. Now lets do a little actual comparison of fame, keeping in mind that obviously some might be able to switch a bit, but for the most part I doubt anyone would argue as we are strictly talking about popularity, not in ring pushes or who wrestlers better.

 

Popularity wise, from most popular to least:AJ Lee (by far), Ronda Rousey, Paige, Natalya, Becky Lynch, Charlotte, Trish Stratus, Maryse, Beth Phoenix, Layla El, Mickie James, Kelly Kelly, Torrie Wilson, Lita, Candice Michelle, Gail Kim, Victoria, Christy Hemme, Chyna, Moolah.

 

And out of who is more successful (net worth, quick estimates):

Chyna-500k

Becky Lynch-650k

Gail Kim-800k

Candice Michelle-1m

Charlotte Flair-1.5m

Layla El-1.5m-1.5

Victoria (Lisa Marie Varon)

Christy Hemme-2.5m

Fabulous Moolah-2.5m

Trish Stratus-3m

Paige-3.5m

Mickie James-4m

Beth Phoenix-4m

Lita (Amy Dumas)-4m

Kelly Kelly-4.5m

Natalya-5m

AJ Lee-6m

Maryse-14m

Ronda Rousey-15m

Torrie Wilson-18m

 

A point I would make is that I believe used to take full advantage of, Sex Appeal can and will get a wrestler over just as much as in any other way. SO I think the OP should be considered to at the very least, have a point.

 

I don't believe tasteless bra and pantie matches (or strip, lingerie pillow, etc.) get anyone over. I believe those are garbage, although I do believe they have their place. I just don't think winning or losing one of those ever matters, although sometimes there is an angle before or after that really showcases someones sex appeal, which I think DOES help.

 

I do think classy, sexy (borderline slutty), outfits like Lana used to wear when managing Rusev matters. If she had no mic skills, she would have still garnered attention in the way she looked and carried herself.

 

I never understood the hate for Sex Appeal. It's obvious that it matters in not only wrestling, but every single thing that you can be popular in... You get the magazine deals, the sponsorships, the extra income, etc. This applies to all sports (especially womens), acting, broadway, singers, etc. If you're a hot Astronaut, Chef, Talk show host, etc. you can become famous "EASIER".

 

Obviously it's not right, but why does everyone ignore the truth all the time? I like realism, and when you take away realistic things, it makes the game less real, not more real like others have suggested.

 

The really funny thing about my whole post, is that I don't really care that much about this nerf. It has absolutely nothing to do with if I would purchase this game or not. I can just not use women, and the C-Verse doesn't have a huge selection to worry about that much to begin with. Naw, don't really care, but I do care that others that actually have valid points are being ignored or told their points aren't valid... when they truly are.

[BuddyGarner]

<p>sex appeal is good enough with it's impact on entertainment angles and allowing eye candy match aims.</p><p> </p><p>

If anything menace needs to be unnerfed.</p>

[SirMichaelJordan]

It wasn’t just the eye cable segments that made people care about Sable. She were in segments with popular people that made her important. She managed HHH, was in a featured program with Marc Mero. Once she got enough popularity it was then when she could hold her own in a eye candy segment.

 

Eye candy segments alone didn’t make people care about her.

 

People bring up the attitude era as if WWE could get two random females and stick them in a mud fight match and that would score high because “attitude era”

[franticloser]

With Sable, when she started wearing more and more revealing clothes, she started building pop more and more. Even after managing Triple H before jumping to managing Marc Mero she wasn't that popular, through being out their with Mero and then wearing more revealing clothing, she started getting recognized, which then led to the Mero storyline where they split. (Which largely stemmed from him being jealous she was getting more attention them him from the crow and actively trying to censor her whenever she wanted to show skin which would make her rated on sex appeal in most of those segments.) So whether it was sex appeal that got her over at first or being tied to Mero can be debated, and really if you are out there with the person you are managing and people are cheering for you then clearly you are doing something right.

 

 

As far as the WWF just throwing out two random girls and popping a rating due to sex appeal, it was never just two random girls, but come on as someone who grew up in that era most of the women segments where a mix of Sable, Marlena, Sunny, and Jacqueline later on, wearing next to nothing or them coming up with a reason to get them into next to nothing. Now at the end of the day this was just a small part of the show, and aside from Sable most of it was confined to one segment or small amounts scattered through out. So I think it getting dinged slightly makes sense as otherwise why not do it throughout the whole card, you can have a sex appeal match that lasts 10 min or less, and if the match focus is main event focused then you shouldn't see it bring down the show.

[djthefunkchris]

You know what could be a great alternative?

 

What if you could set performance skill (or any skill really) importance in era's. So you could have your "Attitude Era" with Sex Appeal and Mic skill being more important, or 70 - 80's where I feel Menace was more important, 2010's where charisma and mic skill might be more important, etc.

 

It's just a quick thought, needs work, but does anyone think that something like this might be even better?

[SirMichaelJordan]

With Sable, when she started wearing more and more revealing clothes, she started building pop more and more. Even after managing Triple H before jumping to managing Marc Mero she wasn't that popular, through being out their with Mero and then wearing more revealing clothing, she started getting recognized, which then led to the Mero storyline where they split. (Which largely stemmed from him being jealous she was getting more attention them him from the crow and actively trying to censor her whenever she wanted to show skin which would make her rated on sex appeal in most of those segments.) So whether it was sex appeal that got her over at first or being tied to Mero can be debated, and really if you are out there with the person you are managing and people are cheering for you then clearly you are doing something right.

 

 

As far as the WWF just throwing out two random girls and popping a rating due to sex appeal, it was never just two random girls, but come on as someone who grew up in that era most of the women segments where a mix of Sable, Marlena, Sunny, and Jacqueline later on, wearing next to nothing or them coming up with a reason to get them into next to nothing. Now at the end of the day this was just a small part of the show, and aside from Sable most of it was confined to one segment or small amounts scattered through out. So I think it getting dinged slightly makes sense as otherwise why not do it throughout the whole card, you can have a sex appeal match that lasts 10 min or less, and if the match focus is main event focused then you shouldn't see it bring down the show.

 

In those scenarios with getting popular, sex appeal wasn’t the main focus. Sable was associated with popular guys. In TEW 2020, managers can gain popularity for just being a popular worker’s valet. You can do angles that don’t have sex appeal as the main focus and it will do well. Same with menace. A good entertainer with either someone being rated on menace or sex appeal will do fine.

 

People don’t care about anything they don’t have an attachment to. A random sexy female isn’t going to rate higher than a sexy female that everyone knows hence why it’s split with overness like that.

[Remianen]

I never understood the hate for Sex Appeal. It's obvious that it matters in not only wrestling, but every single thing that you can be popular in... You get the magazine deals, the sponsorships, the extra income, etc. This applies to all sports (especially womens), acting, broadway, singers, etc. If you're a hot Astronaut, Chef, Talk show host, etc. you can become famous "EASIER".

 

Sorry chris, I'm gonna have to call you out. You were here during TEW05. That's what unnerfed sex appeal looks like. I have no hate for it but I realize why it took the nerfhammer to the word hole. Perhaps shifting the SA/POP balance would make things a bit more palatable? Not 100% on this but I believe the women with the top sex appeal in the C-Verse both reside in SWF, which makes sense (Hannah Potter and Krissy Angelle at 97). Being able to produce 95+ rated segments with them might be a bit much though.

[tormyb]

You know what could be a great alternative?

 

What if you could set performance skill (or any skill really) importance in era's. So you could have your "Attitude Era" with Sex Appeal and Mic skill being more important, or 70 - 80's where I feel Menace was more important, 2010's where charisma and mic skill might be more important, etc.

 

It's just a quick thought, needs work, but does anyone think that something like this might be even better?

 

That's a really great idea. Would be brilliant to make you think like a real promoter, having to keep up with audience trends.

 

There was a post in another thread about the idea of products evolving in response to your booking, so your product would automatically change to match how you book to represent crowd's perceptions of the company and what they are actually offering. It would be awesome to combine these two suggestions, and be in a situation where you have to decide whether you want to do things your way and fight against what the audience want in the era, trying to change their minds, or bend to their whims and book in keeping with the eras expectations.

 

 

Although, on topic, sex appeal is OP enough in real life. For balance, I reckon it's good to nerf it.

[Capelli King]

Sexy women managers have been killed in this version of the game unfortunately. Finding a product to put them into angles is hard enough and their impact has also been limited. I guess TEW has also gone PG

[djthefunkchris]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Remianen" data-cite="Remianen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48355" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Sorry chris, I'm gonna have to call you out. You were here during TEW05. That's what unnerfed sex appeal looks like. I have no hate for it but I realize why it took the nerfhammer to the word hole. Perhaps shifting the SA/POP balance would make things a bit more palatable? Not 100% on this but I believe the women with the top sex appeal in the C-Verse both reside in SWF, which makes sense (Hannah Potter and Krissy Angelle at 97). Being able to produce 95+ rated segments with them might be a bit much though.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> NO sir, I'm a complete noob!</p><p> </p><p> Yeah, I didn't honestly like it back then, and I didn't like it just called "looks". SO many people gave Andre the Giant (among others) 100 Looks.... Changed it everytime.</p><p> WE fought on the same team many times back then (well... debated). Shifting it would work....</p><p> Right now, someone rated on SA that has none, but has tons of Pop... will rate higher than a person with 100 SA with no Pop, in something that is rated supposedly on SA.</p><p> Moving the slide so the reverse happens would be nice.</p>

[Bull]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Capelli King" data-cite="Capelli King" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48355" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Sexy women managers have been killed in this version of the game unfortunately. Finding a product to put them into angles is hard enough and their impact has also been limited. I guess TEW has also gone PG <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I can't find it now but there was a post some where about how manager gain popularity at a quicker rate just by being managers, not even working angles and such so I don't think that's the case, you'd just have to build their popularity up to a respectable level.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I think the whole reasoning behind capping or nerfing it is because it's unrealistic to think you could build a wrestling company from nothing to Global Force soley based on Sex appeal which is exactly how it could be used in older games, and the cap is there to keep it as the filler/cool down parts of the show gameplay wise .</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="djthefunkchris" data-cite="djthefunkchris" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48355" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>NO sir, I'm a complete noob!<p> </p><p> Yeah, I didn't honestly like it back then, and I didn't like it just called "looks". SO many people gave Andre the Giant (among others) 100 Looks.... Changed it everytime.</p><p> WE fought on the same team many times back then (well... debated). Shifting it would work....</p><p> Right now, someone rated on SA that has none, but has tons of Pop... will rate higher than a person with 100 SA with no Pop, in something that is rated supposedly on SA.</p><p> Moving the slide so the reverse happens would be nice.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think it's just because name value is everything. . just to keep in line with the main discussion. . are people gonna complain that a unknown smoking hot chick is dancing in a bikini, doubtful, are they gonna react better if it's someone they know or who is popular obviously. .</p>

[awesomenessofme1]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Bull" data-cite="Bull" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48355" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I can't find it now but there was a post some where about how manager gain popularity at a quicker rate just by being managers, not even working angles and such so I don't think that's the case, you'd just have to build their popularity up to a respectable level.<p> </p><p> </p><p> I think the whole reasoning behind capping or nerfing it is because it's unrealistic to think you could build a wrestling company from nothing to Global Force soley based on Sex appeal which is exactly how it could be used in older games, and the cap is there to keep it as the filler/cool down parts of the show gameplay wise .</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I think it's just because name value is everything. . just to keep in line with the main discussion. . are people gonna complain that a unknown smoking hot chick is dancing in a bikini, doubtful, are they gonna react better if it's someone they know or who is popular obviously. .</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> But the question isn't "should popularity have an impact". No one (in this thread at least) is saying it should be 100% Sex Appeal. The question is what the ratio should be. And I find the current 30/70 split to be unrealistic.</p>

[Bull]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="awesomenessofme1" data-cite="awesomenessofme1" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48355" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>But the question isn't "should popularity have an impact". No one (in this thread at least) is saying it should be 100% Sex Appeal. The question is what the ratio should be. And I find the current 30/70 split to be unrealistic.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> All of the look based angles are geared way more heavily toward popularity though. . pretty much everything is in all fairness. . but I think it's a fair split since at least as far as wrestling goes, You're not gonna become a star on looks alone. . you gotta bring something else to the table. .</p>

[djthefunkchris]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Bull" data-cite="Bull" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48355" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>All of the look based angles are geared way more heavily toward popularity though. . pretty much everything is in all fairness. . but I think it's a fair split since at least as far as wrestling goes, You're not gonna become a star on looks alone. . you gotta bring something else to the table. .</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Can you give me an example of some ugly popular person in a sex appeal rated segment getting a better reaction for being sexy than a super sexy hot person?</p><p> </p><p> I mean, I understand the gaming aspect, but that's not what we're talking about here, we are talking about realism. With as many examples as you've been given for the opposite, I have yet to see one example showing this side... and I'm not saying there isn't any. I'm just saying I can't think of one and I would like to be able to see an example of what people are talking about here. Maybe I will completely change my mind.</p>

[djthefunkchris]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Bull" data-cite="Bull" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48355" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>All of the look based angles are geared way more heavily toward popularity though. . pretty much everything is in all fairness. . but I think it's a fair split since at least as far as wrestling goes, You're not gonna become a star on looks alone. . you gotta bring something else to the table. .</div></blockquote><p> The mud wrestling, the bikini contests, the wet t-shirt contests, etc... these are all coming from wrestling... and I'm not even getting deep. All based off of Pop?</p>