Is the "basics" stat useless?

[Blackman]

Reading the game's manual, the skills-section states that basics is only used when under 40, in which case a worker's matches will be penalized. In theory, this is fine. But in practice, it seems weird.

 

Now that I've ran multiple 3-month watcher games, it occured to me that pretty much all new (non-canon!) workers that popped up, effectively started with 40+ basics, making the stat utterly useless, except for hiring rules that your boss can impose on you. The stat never goes down, so you're left with only a handful of workers in the default database that "suffer" from the low basics. Most of them get the checkmark after the demo is over, leaving you with no more "rookies" for the remainder of your savegame. But let's face it: no one is going to hire rookies, unless you have a minor company, but those won't impose these rules on you anyway.

 

The stat is still there for immersion's sake, I guess. But imo it could do more. If it remains a binary function, the cap could be raised to 60 or something. That way it actually does something. Another fix is just to lower the basics skill of new workers. I HAVE seen some with +-22 basics, but they are very rare in my experience.

[Croquemitaine]

I think the new Experience stat kind of stole Basics' job.

 

If Basics truly serves no other function than to impose penalties on the rare sub-40 rookie, maybe it's time to ditch it. I mean, the kind of worker who's going to get penalties for low basics is probably already getting terrible performance scores due to all their other skills also being crap.

[awesomenessofme1]

I think it should be treated similarly to Selling, with a penalty for having it low and a bonus for having it high.

[d12345]

Basic traditionally played into your Technical Masterclasses matches. I don't think "Experience" does that.

 

i.e. you can be a non-experienced worker but still have a skillset suitable to tech masterclasses.

[djthefunkchris]

I've always felt these stats, no matter the size of role they play "NOW", could be used over time for other areas. Chain, Mat and Submissions I felt could have been expanded on instead of combined. It's too bad, because even if they did exactly the same thing, they were stats that when you are "imagining" the match, you would imagine the submission guy trying submissions mostly, the mat guy utilizing the ring better, etc. Even though it did the same thing "under the hood", it didn't stop me from imagining them being different.

 

I think basics could be expanded on, used for other things down the road hopefully.

[edenborn]

I think the new Experience stat kind of stole Basics' job.

I'd always figured that high Basics allowed a worker to make the best of blown spots, compensate for injuries in the ring, etc. but now Experience has eaten its lunch.

[johnnyhockey]

I think the new Experience stat kind of stole Basics' job.

 

If Basics truly serves no other function than to impose penalties on the rare sub-40 rookie, maybe it's time to ditch it. I mean, the kind of worker who's going to get penalties for low basics is probably already getting terrible performance scores due to all their other skills also being crap.

 

I agree, the stat doesn't do anything that another stat is not already doing. Cutting it seems like the best option, we're already swamped with stats so who's gonna miss it.

[BurningHamster]

Reading the game's manual, the skills-section states that basics is only used when under 40, in which case a worker's matches will be penalized. In theory, this is fine. But in practice, it seems weird.

 

Now that I've ran multiple 3-month watcher games, it occured to me that pretty much all new (non-canon!) workers that popped up, effectively started with 40+ basics, making the stat utterly useless, except for hiring rules that your boss can impose on you. The stat never goes down, so you're left with only a handful of workers in the default database that "suffer" from the low basics. Most of them get the checkmark after the demo is over, leaving you with no more "rookies" for the remainder of your savegame. But let's face it: no one is going to hire rookies, unless you have a minor company, but those won't impose these rules on you anyway.

 

The stat is still there for immersion's sake, I guess. But imo it could do more. If it remains a binary function, the cap could be raised to 60 or something. That way it actually does something. Another fix is just to lower the basics skill of new workers. I HAVE seen some with +-22 basics, but they are very rare in my experience.

 

Seriously? Oh ffs!

 

First was Adam saying that he dropped submissions and chain wrestling because they were never individually calculated so condensing it to just technical made sense ... AFTER so many mod makers had put work into individually entering these skills for so many workers and now learning basics means almost nothing.

 

I think basics should mean something in the state of the game, a tiered reduction or boost to match rating which can vary depending on the company product.

 

Honestly, things like this are really disappointing and discouraging.

[Donners]

Wow, that's news to me. I must read through the manual in full one day.

 

I'd have thought basics could have uses beyond that - eliciting vocal crowd reactions, making botches and injuries more likely, etc.

[Jaded]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="d12345" data-cite="d12345" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49342" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Basic traditionally played into your Technical Masterclasses matches. I don't think "Experience" does that.<p> </p><p> i.e. you can be a non-experienced worker but still have a skillset suitable to tech masterclasses.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> From reading the manual it doesn't look like that's the case anymore. </p><p> </p><p> I agree with OP; it seems a needless stat atm.</p>

[Grand Avatar]

Honestly, I'm saddened to see Basics reduced so much, it was one of my favorite stats in '16. Any vet with 100 in Basics was a likely signing for me just because I knew they could help develop the younger guys and pass on their workrate. Hell, it was the reason I signed Steve Flash every chance I got and used him to put over younger talent and then kept him on as a Road Agent and head trainer of my dojo when he retired. Maybe Basics can be buffed a little bit in later patches so that it works like athleticism at least and grants a small boost to match quality the higher it is.

[cwamaniac]

Basics

 

Honestly, I'm saddened to see Basics reduced so much, it was one of my favorite stats in '16. Any vet with 100 in Basics was a likely signing for me just because I knew they could help develop the younger guys and pass on their workrate. Hell, it was the reason I signed Steve Flash every chance I got and used him to put over younger talent and then kept him on as a Road Agent and head trainer of my dojo when he retired. Maybe Basics can be buffed a little bit in later patches so that it works like athleticism at least and grants a small boost to match quality the higher it is.

 

Firstly I think High basics should provide a boost to a workers performance in general and I could see this working towards road agents at least to help matches their involved in

[Blackman]

Firstly I think High basics should provide a boost to a workers performance in general and I could see this working towards road agents at least to help matches their involved in

 

I can see why this is not the case and I think it makes sense the way it is. In the end it's just the basics. There's some weird vibe coming from "deep knowledge of the basics". But I can see where you're coming from: some workers have some tweaks to hammerlocks, for instance, and clever use of chains (but that's 'technical', I suppose). Maybe it can somehow replace a bit of chain wrestling.

 

Right now it just seems one of the useless stats. But I must admit I have no alternative for it either.

[TeemuFoundation]

Maybe get rid of Safety, and have it sort of merged in with Basics? To me, that's a big part of Basics; it's knowing how to bump right, and how to protect both yourself and your opponent.

[Blackman]

What about the rare blatant disregard for safety? Is that part of personality now? In any case, the BSC-girls, for instance - notorious for lack of safety - have all "mastered" the basics. I somehow find that... hard to believe. Sure, their matches will suck because of their other crap stats, but the main reason should be the lack of basics.

 

But as I said before: my main problem is that you become a "master" upon debuting. At least the cap should be raised to 50/60 so there's some impact on the rookies. Except in rare talents, there's always a difference between a worker on the indies and his 'polished' version. Might partly be experience, as it seems indeed tied, but is probably lack of basics too. The only other thing the stat does is block these workers from finding work in certain companies, but the thing is that they would'nt be hired anyway because of a myriad of other factors.

 

In the previous games, I naively thought of basics as what "converts" lack, like olympic wrestling or MMA stars (like Bingci or Garner), because some of them might 'skip' that part and go straight to the big moves. I guess psychology takes that into account (they usually lack that, barring Angle of course).

[TeemuFoundation]

Yea, I think, in this scenario, Carelessness could be its own attribute.

[Self]

<p>Basics is one of those things I would hope mattered a lot in some products, and barely at all in others. </p><p> </p><p>

I would often watch PWG and Chikara and see awkward rope running, lousy ring position, bad timing... but it didn't matter because the flips and moves were great. But then I can't think of what fans would appreciate great basics, while not caring about the big moves. WWE appreciate it from an office standpoint, but Enzo Amore got over fine and John Cena & Hulk Hogan (not bad, but not amazing) became mega-stars. </p><p> </p><p>

The local camp show scene seems 90% just basic stuff, plus charisma for the pantomime element, but I don't know how that would work. As a side note, the "Campy Fun" product is so disappointing to me. Just doesn't feel right. Typically those crowds has no idea who the performers are, yet it's Pop over Perf? Strange. </p><p> </p><p>

I can see it being pointless. I like the idea of the stat, but I can't think of many situations where it really mattered except for booking preferences.</p>

[Zeel1]

<p>Wow. Basics used to be important for people in training roles, I think with dev trainers and definitely was the case with people owning dojos, that was the main context I ever thought about it previously. It seems like that's not so much of a thing now though? The handbook states on several occasions that a wrestler school owners' stats don't affect training, only the start-up of the dojo and it doesn't really go into detail about what it means about that. </p><p> </p><p>

I think at one point he might add back in the Developmental Trainer role and it might be a key thing for them. But yeah as it is now, the stat seems like it's on it's last legs.</p>

[Grand Avatar]

Yeah, I miss Head Trainers as well. One cool thing about EWR was that you didn't just have one trainer visible, but you could hire multiple trainers with the one with the best stat being the "Head Trainer". It would be awesome to see something like that in '20. Not that they should scrap facilities or training equipment, but I'd like to see a seasoned wrestler overseeing everything. Basically if you have a good head trainer you could get a small bonus chance to generating a above average-strong worker, and maybe to even things out you actually get slightly less of a bonus if you're running a Performance Center with a head trainer, since the facility all those guys in are such a well oiled monstrous machine it's a bit tougher for everyone to get that one-on-one love they get at a dojo and/or wrestler owned school.

[Zeel1]

What would make sense to me is if trainers helped determine their primary skills and stuff like Psychology and Safety, whereas facilities and equipment did more to help them grow physically and athletically.

[SirMichaelJordan]

I feel like basics, experience, safety should work together.

 

Some people are just unorthodox and doesn’t incorporate basic wrestling techniques but are experienced enough to make it work and know their limits.