Are Angles Supposed to Give No Pop Boosts?

[smartman]

I've dreaded asking this question for a week and a half, but I'm to the point where it's thoroughly killing my interest in the game to the point I'd rather watch 3-hour gameplay videos for other games on YT instead of playing the game that I should be deep-diving into every chance I get like I have with every other game in this series dating back to the original.

 

This is also not a "OMG, I want a return to 2016's 10-minute menace angles and other ridiculous exploits." post as I never used those. I'm fine with the new angle system other than Sex Appeal is utterly worthless (that's a game issue) and Overness can't be used for off-screen people so the one staple wrestling angle of "I'm coming to get you." "You're a terrible person for what you did." etc so they have to be Mic/Ent and NR instead of Overness so they can be 6 minutes which I find silly.

 

This is a "Hey, I've run 4 weeks of Medium or better TV with a person in angles that are 20 points above his pop, and I've got absolutely nothing to show for it." post. If the game is simply a nearly-completely closed system meaning for every star you want to make you have to feed 2 or more well-known or stars to him/her, that's...well, that's a system. The Rock would love to have a word with you as would a lot of others that became huge because of their mic work.

 

And these are with different versions of the game and different mods with different people being pushed with all of them being nowhere near the fed's pop cap (that's the only pop cap that would apply as they're nowhere near their worker pop cap) so they have real room to grow. I fully understand why a Major Star in a Medium or Small fed aren't gaining pop as they won't in 2020.

 

So, am I just having massive bad luck? Is it a closed-system so I just have to accept that some of my top stars and major stars that I'd be pushing are going to have to be jobbed down to the midcard just so the guys I have to be pushing (due to age, SQ, whole package, etc) up the card can get there? Why in the world does a squash match on TV give a pop gain of 1 when 3-4 great angles give nothing? What am I missing as clearly I'm the only one having this issue as multiple topics have said that angles are a way to push people up the card? Is it a requirement for every mod to have about 30-40 people across the country that you can just hire and job out their remaining pop since again, angles are worthless?

[mitsukaikira]

<p>Hm. I'm assuming you're using the default DB and not a conversion. That sounds odd. I think I'll fire it up and test this out for a while.</p><p> </p><p>

Start a worker with 0 pop everywhere and 100 mic skills. Have em cut a promo or two weekly and see where we are after a trimester or so.</p>

[bigtplaystew]

<p>I think there's almost "levels" of popularity for each worker. If they have very little they gain popularity very easily. Promos definitely gain pop for a worker if they have little or none. So do losses. But they get to a point where they eventually have to beat wrestlers with more popularity than them to gain more popularity. </p><p> </p><p>

There's ways around it like booking monsters in squash matches and what not but this is the long and short of it. A worker won't just be able to cut promos and get to main event level popularity on that alone in TEW2020. At least not in my experience.</p>

[LongFrank199]

<p>there is alot of factors</p><p> </p><p>

star quality has a big impact on popularity</p><p> </p><p>

I tried to keep over a default made worker with awesome skills but 9 star quality. After like 20 matches and 100 angles. The worker was at 30 popularity. So now that worker is just a good jobber sadly. </p><p> </p><p>

Major success always more of a impact than neutral so try that out</p>

[smartman]

<p>First, these are all mods as I've given up on the CV after the 2010 or 2013 debacle when my TCW game was forcibly ended because there were only 6 wrestlers on the planet that could main event an A TV show at International (yay for severely nerfing the psych penalty!!!). Second, it shouldn't matter whether they're mods or not as booking angles for a wrestler is just data.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="bigtplaystew" data-cite="bigtplaystew" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50930" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think there's almost "levels" of popularity for each worker. If they have very little they gain popularity very easily. Promos definitely gain pop for a worker if they have little or none. So do losses. But they get to a point where they eventually have to beat wrestlers with more popularity than them to gain more popularity. <p> </p><p> There's ways around it like booking monsters in squash matches and what not but this is the long and short of it. A worker won't just be able to cut promos and get to main event level popularity on that alone in TEW2020. At least not in my experience.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm talking about people that are squarely in the midcard that I'm trying to push. I can get the lowest level people up to 19 on my B show which is on an even smaller network than my Medium-level ones, but that's with matches. I can understand those wrestlers needing to beat some people sometime to get a boost, but you should be able to put them in angles too. But these midcard guys are cutting 70's promos for weeks and gaining nothing. Then, I book them in a dominant squash match and gain a point or never gain anything. They can't be capped because then I run a match at the monthly event, and they gain a point even losing when it's not on TV or PPV. Maybe just TV is utterly worthless?</p><p> </p><p> I really would like to know if I'm doing something wrong because I like 95% of the changes to 2020, but consistently booking stuff with no results isn't any fun.</p>

[christmas_ape]

I do agree that lower levels popularity seem particular hard this game. There seems to be some hard cap which I don't understand.

 

I'm RAW, and I've brought a bunch of people in with 0 popularity. Within 2/3 weeks all of them got up to exactly 17 or 18 popularity. This was through being on the B show. It didn't seem to matter if they won or lost, just being on the B show got them up to that minimum level, really fast too.

 

But then all growth just completely stopped. For I'd say about 8 weeks they have all been in matches consistently rated between 40-60. Angles rated say 50-70. The only way I've gotten any to go up any points at all is to put them over someone with around 40 popularity, but even this only gets them up 1 point or so. One person in particular has now been on the A show plenty, won lots of matches, been in a lot of 70+ rated promos. And he's still 20 pop.

 

Just some troubleshooting...

 

Star quality doesn't seem to be affecting it, as some have 80/90 SQ.

The B show and the A show are on the same network.

I'm medium size (perhaps this affects it but still the cap seems really low)

 

One thing I've been told is perhaps popularity gains on TV is nerfed compared to PPV/events. But this seems really harsh if it affects TV only promotions like RAW.

 

Just checking if there is something I'm missing here with growing popularity

[thadian]

My solution was creating some junk workers as "popularity sacks" and "momentum sacks" to get people over before I release them. They're "acceptable" (but not good) workers, but once they're jobbed out, there's nothing else for them other than release.

 

Good news is, it let me raise my popularity without killing the guys I am trying to keep over to get guys over I want over. I feel like it's a cheat equal to the "10 Min Menace" angles of TEW 2016. Just give the attributes that makes them agree to job to anyone and have a positive attitude, and you're good. Just remember to put a few such bags in EVERY part of the roster - a few main event, a few upper midcard, a few midcard.

 

That way there's a few garbage guys for everyone to beat at the beginning for a stronger start. From there, angles are of minimal value and really don't do squat unless you use the Major Success/Defeat options AND have someone high end rated on Overness.

 

The Rock addresses the room- Major Success, 6 "not rated" jobbers, and HHH comes in "Major Failure", and walks back out. HHH beats a meatsack tonight and has a "Major Victory" promo afterward against the same meatsack to prevent him from losing a bunch of points. This seems to help the 6 "jobbers" a little too much, but what else can I do? I don't want to exploit the game.

 

Honestly, I'd rather have back the 10 Min Angles cheat, because it created fewer problems than the current system. The old system was only bad if you chose to cheat with it. The current system kinda forces you to cheat to remain viable.

[radical]

What roles did you use for the guys you wanted to get over and what were they rated on?

[christmas_ape]

What roles did you use for the guys you wanted to get over and what were they rated on?

 

Not sure if this was addressed to me or thadian, or OP, but I know personally I use a variety but mostly entertainment.

 

I mean in theory I think even not being rated should still allow for SOME popularity increase. But when you have people with high entertainment skills I don't see why they shouldn't be able to debut, and cut promos to get them up. Of course at some point they might have to actually wrestle and beat some people to take there popularity. But I'd argue wrestlers get popularity from being in good segments just as much as good matches.

[bigtplaystew]

@thadian thats an interesting take you always post good stuff. I wanted to tell you I've been enjoying your insight as I've been more active in the forums since 2020 launched.

 

I generally don't fire my job guys I just toss em a win here and there. Angry Gilmore would be an example of a high level "job guy" to your "sacks" in the sense that his purpose for me is to lose good matches to top stars and get mediocre ones to the next level. He generally over the years has a record of like 10 wins 20 losses. Something like that. I keep him in angles and throw him a few key wins to keep his momentum from tanking, but essentially his pop stays rock solid in the low 80s. I DO struggle to get him higher but as long as most of his losses come from workers more popular than him his pop remains pretty level in 2020 actually despite the big losses. I find certain workers to be excellent at this role and I like having them to count on.

 

So like you I have several guys at each "level" of pop -a few in the high 80s, a few more in the low 80s, a few in the low 70s, a bunch more around the 50s- that serve this role for me. I just get attached and keep em around

[radical]

Not sure if this was addressed to me or thadian, or OP, but I know personally I use a variety but mostly entertainment.

 

I mean in theory I think even not being rated should still allow for SOME popularity increase. But when you have people with high entertainment skills I don't see why they shouldn't be able to debut, and cut promos to get them up. Of course at some point they might have to actually wrestle and beat some people to take there popularity. But I'd argue wrestlers get popularity from being in good segments just as much as good matches.

 

It was meant for everyone more or less. I too use Entertainment most of the times and it works pretty good, especially if they have some momentum. Not as good as it can in reality though (John Cena's first 3 promos in his rapper persona probably did more for him irl than 30 promos would in TEW) but I can liv with it. playing as RAW is pretty much easy mode anyway.

 

I agree with everything you are saying about angles getting people over. In fact, I'd say in an entertainment heavy product a great angle often does more for a wrestler than a great match irl. I would love to see that in the game in some way (even just as a really low random chance)

[Rayelek]

I was wondering this a bit too. I brought Will Beaumont into TCW, and had him cut promos hyping himself up for 3 weeks, including on PPV, before he wrestled his first match, and even though the promos rated in the 50s, his pop only rose 1 point. Then he wrestled Jay Chord and lost and went up to 17 nationwide.

[Remianen]

I haven't seen this at all and I run VERY angle heavy shows. I have managers at the promotion pop cap (70 at Medium) depending on SQ, and workers at 85 (Alicia Strong, Alina America) at their caps. I generate the vast majority of my popularity and momentum via angles. I'm about to run my first show at 'Big' and I have zero Franchise Players, possibly because I have so many people in the 70s in popularity (pop cap for Medium, I'm guessing).

 

All of my main show angles are (exactly) 6 minutes long , most are rated on Entertainment (interviews have the interviewer rated on Microphone; brawls are rated on Fighting), and I don't care what the angle rates because of my angle focus (Highlights). Once I have my top 3 angles booked, everything else is used to develop workers. I don't watch all of my workers' popularity after every show because that's not my thing. But when I see a tag team I'm developing go from 'unimportant' to 'star/well known' (Sabrina Wells/Skye Hermosa, respectively) despite having a 1-7 win-loss record and not beating anyone above 'recognizable' (but losing to 7 teams high on the card) and maintaining 'Red Hot' momentum, that tells me the angles are doing their thing. Post-show angles (think: Talking Smack) even get my road agents and my #2/B-show announce team involved.

 

This is all with the default data btw. Not really into mods yet.

 

Try this: Take your most popular worker with the highest microphone skill and pair them with your most popular in-ring performer in a basic interview angle of 6 minutes in length (assuming your product allows for angles of that length):

 

Wrestler - rated on Entertainment

Interviewer - rated on Microphone

 

And see how that rates and what it does to the popularity of the workers involved. Also, if I remember correctly, there's a cap on how much popularity a worker can gain from one show. So it might be a good idea to test over 5 or more shows and see what comes of that.

[Malioc]

I had Kip Keenan debut with a few angles, without a match and as "on screen" guy without being rated. He quickly increased by 10 points (at a very small level).

 

So, there is growth. At least in certain situations.

My experience so far is, that angles are not THAT decisive anymore. But I like it, because it makes it more difficult yet achievable.

My workers have risen mostly during feuds, which imo seems to be the trigger. Then have wrestlers being involved in storyline matches/angles and they seem to benefit. Especially from matches of 15min length.

[smartman]

All but my Menace angles have been 6 minutes, and I think I had one Fighting brawl go 8. Almost all of my angles are either those 2 or Entertainment. I just don't understand when everyone else has success, and I've tried several mods with 0 results (including the CV1977). I guess I'll just have to power through it and likely just invent people to hire and job the hell out of to people I want to jump their pop like was suggested by thadian though I really hate cheating like that, but angles should be gaining me pop and aren't so...

 

Though are they marked as minor success, success, or major success? I've always done minor success unless it was a beatdown because how much success can you truly have in an argument? Maybe that's my problem/game bug? I may try that to see. I thought that only affected momentum, not pop as they didn't in 2016.

[ngz999]

This is also not a "OMG, I want a return to 2016's 10-minute menace angles and other ridiculous exploits." post as I never used those.

 

This was never an exploit. A segment being rated on menace is as valid as one being rated on entertainment.

[Jon The GOAT]

This was never an exploit. A segment being rated on menace is as valid as one being rated on entertainment.

 

Can you link a few IRL examples of 10 minute menace angles? Keeping in mind that menace is defined as "how menacing the worker looks" by the game. The moment Undertaker grabs a mic, he's no longer being judged on menace. So these segments should be 10 minutes of a wrestler solely looking intimidating.

[christmas_ape]

Can you link a few IRL examples of 10 minute menace angles? Keeping in mind that menace is defined as "how menacing the worker looks" by the game. The moment Undertaker grabs a mic, he's no longer being judged on menace. So these segments should be 10 minutes of a wrestler solely looking intimidating.

 

It's a tough one though as whilst I agree with your general point (the idea of a long rated menace angle is a bit odd, and you're probably right that it essentially never happens in the way that you've said it) I'm not sure I'd agree with that saying any words automatically means it shouldn't be rated on menace.

 

Admittedly I'm not going to look for an example but imagine an Evolution angle, where Triple H does most the talking, maybe Ric Flair and Orton talk, whilst Batista essentially stands there looking menacing. I'd say even if Batista were to grab the mic briefly I'd still want to say his performance in the angle is based at the very least 50% on how menacing he looks.

 

What I would say is if you had an angle that is rated solely on menace, like just one dude doing something menacing but not fighting or talking, then sure there should be a max amount of time that can be without heavy penalties. But I think as long as there's other workers being rated on other stuff, then I don't see why someone can't be rated on menace in long angles without that being an exploit.

[Jon The GOAT]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="christmas_ape" data-cite="christmas_ape" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50930" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It's a tough one though as whilst I agree with your general point (the idea of a long rated menace angle is a bit odd, and you're probably right that it essentially never happens in the way that you've said it) I'm not sure I'd agree with that saying any words automatically means it shouldn't be rated on menace. <p> </p><p> Admittedly I'm not going to look for an example but imagine an Evolution angle, where Triple H does most the talking, maybe Ric Flair and Orton talk, whilst Batista essentially stands there looking menacing. I'd say even if Batista were to grab the mic briefly I'd still want to say his performance in the angle is based at the very least 50% on how menacing he looks. </p><p> </p><p> What I would say is if you had an angle that is rated solely on menace, like just one dude doing something menacing but not fighting or talking, then sure there should be a max amount of time that can be without heavy penalties. But I think as long as there's other workers being rated on other stuff, then I don't see why someone can't be rated on menace in long angles without that being an exploit.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> In the situation you described, I think it's quite fine to have Batista graded on Menace. He's not really carrying the angle in this scenario compared to the three other guys. People arent going to remember how Batista stood there menacingly. When you watch the Brian Cage segments or the Jack Swagger segments in AEW where they stand there looking intimidating, you remember the stuff Tazz was saying or the rest of IC or his opponents were saying. Maybe the game should just be smart enough to emphasize the people entertaining in the seg more than the guys standing looking intimidating. That or you should just be able to designate Major members of the segment & minor members. </p><p> </p><p> I think the argument here is more so about Menace-only segments though. </p><p> </p><p> I will say however, I would prefer it if Charisma/Sex Appeal/Menace was interchangeable in the "Entertainment" category & much like in the ring whichever is your best top row is used, in an angle, whichever is your best feature is used. </p><p> </p><p> I should make it clear Im not happy with how the angle system works personally but I dont think theres an issue with 10 minute menace angles not scoring well if theres no one else in the angle.</p>

[thadian]

This was never an exploit. A segment being rated on menace is as valid as one being rated on entertainment.

 

I agree. The problem was never angles having an impact at 10 mins on Menace - that's how those guys get over. Their wins are usually bad matches, so the angles let them keep momentum.

[thadian]

Can you link a few IRL examples of 10 minute menace angles? Keeping in mind that menace is defined as "how menacing the worker looks" by the game. The moment Undertaker grabs a mic, he's no longer being judged on menace. So these segments should be 10 minutes of a wrestler solely looking intimidating.

 

Then 4 minute or 2 minute Menace Angles should be able to reach 100 by this logic.

 

Edit: Second thought - or remove useless Sex Appeal and Menace from the game, and just use "Charisma" as the skill for it and "Entertainment" for the angles.

[MikeSc]

To be fair people still do gain pop from losses all the way through Star and gain from angles regardless. It's just once a person is high enough in a major fed to be in Star the gains don't immediately give you a point. It takes 2 or 3 shows in segments much higher rated than they are to do it.

 

Also, Once you are in Star it only works if a Major Star beats you. Anything else you are losing pop unless the segment is really highly rated.

[ngz999]

Can you link a few IRL examples of 10 minute menace angles? Keeping in mind that menace is defined as "how menacing the worker looks" by the game. The moment Undertaker grabs a mic, he's no longer being judged on menace. So these segments should be 10 minutes of a wrestler solely looking intimidating.

 

The time doesn't really matter. Important point is that the angles should be long enough to count towards the show rating.