Getting Frustrated w/ Momentum & Popularity...

[LegacyWHF]

I swear I've read every thread with information, tried strategy after strategy, and I'm just at the point of banging my head into the screen trying to solve this riddle.

 

I'm playing a WCW '97 Mod, Specifically, The War Rages On.

 

I hired Edge & Christian, two very young guys, that I thought I could easily develop. I also picked up Matt & Jeff Hardy, Rob Van Dam, and a few others.

 

I've given Edge & Christian promo after promo where they perform quite well with skill increases that make sense. I've put Edge in barnburner matches with Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, Eddie, Benoit, etc. on my "A" show. I've done the same w/ Christian. They lose, but they're protected. I've let them beat people on my 'B' shows, often people with MUCH higher pop that are on their way out of the company. I've hired workers for one night shows, put them against them individually, put them against them in tag matches.

 

They're involved in one of the HOTTEST feuds in the company. Members of a stable that is fighting both the nWo and the Horsemen.

 

They've only gained 1-2 points of popularity over the course of 6 months.

 

Nothing I do seems to get them over and this puzzle is hard to figure out...

[Sons of Kohral]

What are E&C's current popularity?

 

What are their match average grades.

 

What road agent note on who are you using?

 

This game to me seems the easiest TEW game to organically grow pop.

[PGHJuice]

Popularity is one of the most well kept secrets in this game. You can read tip after tip, tutorial after tutorial but it’s still literally almost impossible for the majority of your roster to gain any pop.

 

I quit playing 3 weeks ago because of this.

[a0161613]

It's not impossible but it's not easy and takes some time to build up. Momentum is key.

 

Gimmick changes help if needed. Fully expect that a guy can go from chilly to warm if given all the tools to succeed, everything just has to line up.

[Self]

Television is terrible for building popularity. There's a MASSIVE difference in my games running televised promotions and my games running just events, because you only get a fraction of the gains on TV. So that's the first thing I'd look at; Where they're winning.

 

The second thing is momentum. What are Edge & Christian's momentum right now? If it's below neutral, of course they're not gaining popularity. You improve popularity by winning. Winning. Winning. Winning. Losing is an awful thing if you want to build a star. In previous games you could "lose your way up the card", but that's become less and less viable (rightly so) in more recent editions. And the first match is HUGE. If you want to build a hot new act you need to have them win the first bunch of matches, teach the crowd that these aren't flunkies, and THEN give them the big wins on PPV.

 

It's not enough to "be involved" with a hot story. Virgil was involved with nWo storylines, but he wasn't beating important guys constantly, so no one cared.

[christmas_ape]

Television is terrible for building popularity. There's a MASSIVE difference in my games running televised promotions and my games running just events, because you only get a fraction of the gains on TV. So that's the first thing I'd look at; Where they're winning.

 

I think this is a part of what has frustrated me. I'm playing as a TV only promotions, I'd like to think that the game takes this into account when sorting popularity out, if not it seems like a huge downside to running TV only. Granted I completely think there should be some downsides, but it seems a little severe.

[Self]

I think this is a part of what has frustrated me. I'm playing as a TV only promotions, I'd like to think that the game takes this into account when sorting popularity out, if not it seems like a huge downside to running TV only. Granted I completely think there should be some downsides, but it seems a little severe.

 

I actually think television is terrible in this game. Worse ticket sales, slower gains, worse ratings because wrestlers hold back... and in exchange? Block tapings, I guess. You don't even get increased sponsorship. It was bad in TEW'16, but for some reason (maybe just the games I'm choosing to play) it feels even worse here. I have a TV only diary project ready to go, but the mechanisms are a disappointment.

 

For a TV only promotion, I'd experiment with Weekly Events. They also come with drawbacks, but maybe not so severe? And you can broadcast them exactly the same as TV. Failing that, 4 x monthly events. Full ticket sales. Same timeslots. Full pop gains.

[Malioc]

I have played for 18 months with (mostly) 2 TV shows per week and 1 event per month.

 

It took some time, but my whole upper card is almost all at its cap. The others are also mostly doing well. It just needs time and a storyline to push someone.

 

Below 10% of my roster has negative momentum. Most are around Hot momentum, even when they win rarely.

 

With TV shows it may be harder, but it's doable.

[nerodragomir1]

In the few games I've played with any reliance, I've gained pop in as little as one show.

 

It's not that hard IMO.

[christmas_ape]

For a TV only promotion, I'd experiment with Weekly Events. They also come with drawbacks, but maybe not so severe? And you can broadcast them exactly the same as TV. Failing that, 4 x monthly events. Full ticket sales. Same timeslots. Full pop gains.

 

Yeah that's a good point, I suppose I will try and experiment. I'd always assumed the drawbacks woudn't outweigh the positives (and indeed in 2016 they definitely didn't) but maybe that's changed now.

 

P.S Hopefully the mechanic doesn't at all deter your project though as I've been hoping to see a Self 2020 diary!

 

With TV shows it may be harder, but it's doable.

 

Don't get me wrong I do agree, although it's hard to know in your example whether the vast majority of your popularity boosts came from the 1 monthly event as opposed to the 8 weekly shows.

 

I mean I have seen SOME increases in my TV only promotion, I would have just hoped that when you have ONLY TV, the game is clever enough to perhaps reduce the gap between TV and Event importance.

[LegacyWHF]

Here's an update on this, if you find this thread and are looking for a solution.

 

Gimmick Change is the silver bullet.

 

I took Edge & Christian, gave them Gimmick Changes, and had them beat a team on the PPV.

 

Edge's gimmick change was awful, and he stayed Ice Cold Momentum w/ terrible popularity.

 

Christian's gimmick change was a success and got an initial rating of great. He shot back to neutral momentum from Ice Cold and gained 6-7 points of popularity.

[BiffJordan]

I am playing an AWA revival in the 91 Mod. I hired Harlem Heat, Mabel, Norman Smiley and Butch Reed to do a early Nation of Domination gimmick (that I call Da 5 Bloods, yes ripped from the movie). I wanted to have Butch take the AWA Title via his stable during the revival championship tournament. His popularity was "well known" and it took about 4 or 5 months to make him a "major star". The rest of the group advanced bout the same time from unknown to recognizable which is where I needed them to stop tanking ratings.

 

I always had the stable as a either minor or major parts of Butch's main event storyline. So they'd get the rub in angles, which yes were not highly rated when featuring only one start among four unknowns, so I got Larry Hennig as my interviewer and he is super over in my region so he adds popularity and has high mic skills. With Booker T I focused on entertainment skills when having him in an angle or star quality, with Stevie it was menace, with Smiley it was charisma with Mable it was Menace.

 

It took about 5 months but the whole stable is at least legit in the eyes of my fans now. I'd say virtually 0 to 40's pop in 6ish months is a pretty realistic growth.

 

Also if you have gimmicks and they come off bad then you are really going to be stalled and may have to change plans.

[HarryFandango86]

I think it all has a lot to do with their destiny roll which I think is re rolled constantly and changes on their skill increase. I feel it works a lot more realistically now. That being said I’d like to see extra rare random occurrences where someone can have a let’s say ‘Becky lynch’ moment And get massively over after one tv show for something you book, maybe linked to an angle turn or something. But it’d have to be extra rare thing to happen. I would hate it if it always happened

[IWGP]

Popularity is one of the most well kept secrets in this game. You can read tip after tip, tutorial after tutorial but it’s still literally almost impossible for the majority of your roster to gain any pop.

 

I quit playing 3 weeks ago because of this.

 

This is definitely not the case. I'm 17 months into a PGHW game and I have 21 wrestlers rated as 'Major Stars'. If anything, I could do with them being less over as trying to fit them all onto cards is a problem.

 

It seems to me the easiest way to gain popularity is to for talent with lower pop to beat opponents with higher pop cleanly. I can almost guarantee a worker will gain 3-6 pop with a big win and the loser will lose 1 pop if I put the 'Keep Strong' road agent note on, otherwise, they will lose 6-7 pop.

[BiffJordan]

Also possibly since they are so young their experience level is low and that seems to have a big affect from what I can tell.

[Self]

P.S Hopefully the mechanic doesn't at all deter your project though as I've been hoping to see a Self 2020 diary!

 

I'm waiting for the game to settle down, patch-wise, before I start a long-term project that I spend year(s) on. I've abandoned private games after certain patches. I'd hate to do that for a diary.

 

(I may have something planned. Depends how firing up photoshop goes this weekend)

 

This is definitely not the case. I'm 17 months into a PGHW game and I have 21 wrestlers rated as 'Major Stars'. If anything, I could do with them being less over as trying to fit them all onto cards is a problem.

 

It seems to me the easiest way to gain popularity is to for talent with lower pop to beat opponents with higher pop cleanly. I can almost guarantee a worker will gain 3-6 pop with a big win and the loser will lose 1 pop if I put the 'Keep Strong' road agent note on, otherwise, they will lose 6-7 pop.

 

Is that TV? Events? Touring? I can't recall how PGHW are set up.

[IWGP]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Self" data-cite="Self" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50986" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Is that TV? Events? Touring? I can't recall how PGHW are set up.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Touring with monthly PPV events. Touring shows have almost no effect on pop due to their limited coverage but the PPV events (I have Big coverage in Japan) are where the pop changes happen. I'm getting 50-60k crowds and 450k PPV buys.</p><p> </p><p> I would imagine audience has major effects on pop changes. Using the initial example, how much pop boost realistically is a worker going to get winning a match on a B show that might only get a few thousand viewers?</p>

[tannerfiasco]

<p>Building pop really isn't that difficult and as gamebreaking as some of you make it sound. Booking your guys to go over on B shows will do nothing for their pop, and having them get beat on A shows but protecting them won't raise their pop either just minimize the pop they'd lose for getting beat. My strategy that seems to work with just about every worker I've tried to get over is put them in a storyline with one or two top guys with good momentum and pop, build them up with angles and have them go over decent mid card workers so match ratings are solid and don't hurt the heat on your story lines, and once your storyline is hot enough or you've role played it to your desired ending have them go over a top guy. Sometimes you might have to sacrifice a little morale on one of your stars but if you're booking them strong before that match the effects should be minimal. </p><p> </p><p>

For example, 2004 rw mod I booked Rey in fueds to go over Big Show and Bradshaw in that order in a 6 month time frame. Rey has risen from 67 pop in January to 77-79 depending on the region at the end of June. All through using the story lines and building enough heat before the final blow off match. I believe there's pop caps as well (pretty sure I read that) and of course different stats will effect the difficulty of rising pop due to match quality, star power, what have you. Just be patient (biggest thing, not every worker is going to be a superstar and some will take longer to rise in pop than others), use your storylines, and dont be afraid to upset your top guys every now and then to build new stars (especially if you're using a company like WWE and can afford to give out bonuses here and there).</p>

[marquisdepyro]

<p>The biggest things I'd say are momentum and gimmick</p><p> </p><p>

If a worker has low momentum or a bad gimmick they will really really struggle to get over. I have given an "ice cold" worker six months of wins and seen them lose popularity. </p><p> </p><p>

If someone gets this low you HAVE to turn them or change their gimmick. </p><p> </p><p>

Once you've got momentum in the positives just put them in good segments. In my experience if you have large enough reach broadcasting, even people losing most of the time will easily rise up to 60ish popularity, then it's just one winning streak to the main event.</p><p> </p><p>

Stables seem to be a good way to keep momentum up, as long as the stable leaders are going to be winning and performing well. </p><p> </p><p>

I rarely use storylines, and outside of a couple of workers who went poor momentum then I gave them a bad gimmick, everyone has gotten over. Even the failures seem realistic. Sometimes something just doesn't click and the person isn't getting over without a reboot.</p>

[MikeSc]

I'll add in on momentum and gimmick.

 

Once you hit White Hot momentum it is super easy to keep them there. You always have them get a win after a loss and maybe cut a few "taunt" promos. It doesn't even have to be a major win, even an Unimportant guy. All better. Until you hit the 70s pop goes quickly once somebody is white hot. One of my major problems is everyone gets to be a Star or Major Star after a while because I keep them at Red Hot or White Hot. Midcarders are nice to have.

 

Run 6-man tags and have them in matches rated way above their pop and not part of the decision. They'll gain really well.

 

If they cut a promo have an excuse to have another guy on their side of the face/heel divide around talking.

 

As for gimmick, a wrestler's performance will get WAY better going from a bad gimmick to a good one.

[Irish Wolf]

Popularity for workers is so easy to build to a point. I have a tiny ity bitty fed that start at 0 pop. I hired guys with 1 or 2 pop and within one month they were almost all up to 12. Within 2 months they were all up to 17. At 3 months Almost my entire roster is between 17 and 23.

 

The thing is that poromotions but a cap on wrestler pop. If you are running a smaller promotion you are not going to be able to get your guys to 90 pop. As your promotion gains popularity the cap will grow on your workers.

 

Momentum is a bit harder to build but once you get it there its incredibly easy to maintain. Basically momentum works like this. Wins and angle success up a hidden momentum value. Your workers current momentum value will continue moving toward that hidden momentum potential. If you're giving your guys one win and the one loss, one angle success and then one angle loss then you aren't going to see any momentum build. The hidden momentum value will be neutral since you are playing even steven booking. If you want to build momentum you absolutely have to give a continued and spate of successes.

[IWGP]

<p>I don't believe wins and losses matter that much when it comes to momentum.</p><p> </p><p>

I'm playing as PGHW. I have 21 workers with White Hot momentum, including guys who have win/loss records of 14-25, 13-29 and a 7-31 who lost 8 matches in a row during the Elite Series.</p><p> </p><p>

What I think matters is segment ratings, possibly in comparison to your company popularity. I started the game at 65 but with my roster and lots of multiman matches, it was easy for most workers to be averaging match ratings well into the 70s, so they all gained momentum.</p><p> </p><p>

I've noticed with the lower card workers / young lions / foreign workers with little popularity, doesn't matter how many wins they get, if their match ratings are lower than my company pop, their momentum tanks.</p>