TEW2010 Developer's Journal Discussion

[djthefunkchris]

When the game comes out, there is always a "Demand", and truly, I could go back and link some unbelievable demands.... that everyone has probably forgot about (although me bringing it up, probably reminds everyone). The demand is, "Give me a real world Mod!" or there is the less demanding demand.... "Is there any real world mods to this? I really want to play the game, but I don't want to buy it without a real world mod."

 

If everyone would just get the game, mess around with the default data, and let mod-maker's work on it (possibly even offer to help... Things like Cutting worker's, etc.), instead of constantly "rushing" them. I would bet you would get much better mods.

 

Don't expect anything, and just use the default. When something comes up (or when someone finish's one of the many announced mods that will pop up), then look at it as a "bonus" instead.

 

 

There are some that just fill out stats, and let the game go though. That's going to happen no matter what. The in game editer can help us "fix" things we don't like when playing them, and the regular editor can let us "fix" them forever. Which is another pet peeve of mine. If you don't like someone's stat, just change it. Don't worry about what the mod-maker wanted, it's your game. Your not going to jail for making Mickey James sex appeal go down (although you will in fact, have bad taste, lol).

 

Bassically, instead of complaining (which is another hardship) about stats, just change them. Complain about duplicates, perhaps someone made a traditional promotion that's historically Lucha, let them know about that kind of stuff. Don't go "Hey man, AJ is good and all, but come on... Those stats are just way too high!"... Unless you think it was an oversight on the modder's part (like perhaps they made AJ a female).

[Nedew]

When the game comes out, there is always a "Demand", and truly, I could go back and link some unbelievable demands.... that everyone has probably forgot about (although me bringing it up, probably reminds everyone). The demand is, "Give me a real world Mod!" or there is the less demanding demand.... "Is there any real world mods to this? I really want to play the game, but I don't want to buy it without a real world mod."

 

If everyone would just get the game, mess around with the default data, and let mod-maker's work on it (possibly even offer to help... Things like Cutting worker's, etc.), instead of constantly "rushing" them. I would bet you would get much better mods.

 

Don't expect anything, and just use the default. When something comes up (or when someone finish's one of the many announced mods that will pop up), then look at it as a "bonus" instead.

 

 

There are some that just fill out stats, and let the game go though. That's going to happen no matter what. The in game editer can help us "fix" things we don't like when playing them, and the regular editor can let us "fix" them forever. Which is another pet peeve of mine. If you don't like someone's stat, just change it. Don't worry about what the mod-maker wanted, it's your game. Your not going to jail for making Mickey James sex appeal go down (although you will in fact, have bad taste, lol).

 

Bassically, instead of complaining (which is another hardship) about stats, just change them. Complain about duplicates, perhaps someone made a traditional promotion that's historically Lucha, let them know about that kind of stuff. Don't go "Hey man, AJ is good and all, but come on... Those stats are just way too high!"... Unless you think it was an oversight on the modder's part (like perhaps they made AJ a female).

 

Hear hear!

[shamelessposer]

Hear hear!

 

The problem with the post you've quoted is that it's entirely possible for a mod to render itself worthless due to a modder's lack of understanding of game mechanics. I'm not going to name names, but if each of the WWE's main eventers have popularity ratings that are off by a full letter grade then the mod isn't going to be playable. If mistakes are that big and obvious in the mod's number one promotion, what's it going to look like when I see, say, the CHIKARA or WWC roster?

 

A couple of weeks ago, on the modding forum, I came across as kind of a dick for being hard on one particular modder. I stand by the message I was attempting to communicate then: We need to be hard on our modding community. Clear criticism of specific issues is the only way we can expect the modding community to meaningfully improve. Listen to me or don't, but either way our community is going to get the mods it deserves.

[crayon]

A couple of weeks ago, on the modding forum, I came across as kind of a dick for being hard on one particular modder. I stand by the message I was attempting to communicate then: We need to be hard on our modding community. Clear criticism of specific issues is the only way we can expect the modding community to meaningfully improve. Listen to me or don't, but either way our community is going to get the mods it deserves.

 

I totally agree with this. I know well and truly that my stats aren't DOTT levels of greatness (thankfully it's a fantasy mod so I can fudge a lot), but I'm yet to hear any complaints. I could be happy about it and think that it means that no one minds, but I expect it's more than likely that people do have some issues and think certain things could be done better, but also think complaining would be overkill (or some reason).

 

All that aside, National Trends is pretty sweet, and I wonder if it can be adjusted with the Narrative feature?

[Nedew]

The problem with the post you've quoted is that it's entirely possible for a mod to render itself worthless due to a modder's lack of understanding of game mechanics. I'm not going to name names, but if each of the WWE's main eventers have popularity ratings that are off by a full letter grade then the mod isn't going to be playable. If mistakes are that big and obvious in the mod's number one promotion, what's it going to look like when I see, say, the CHIKARA or WWC roster?

 

A couple of weeks ago, on the modding forum, I came across as kind of a dick for being hard on one particular modder. I stand by the message I was attempting to communicate then: We need to be hard on our modding community. Clear criticism of specific issues is the only way we can expect the modding community to meaningfully improve. Listen to me or don't, but either way our community is going to get the mods it deserves.

 

Fair dos, i just liked the way djthefunkchris articulated things.

 

****, what do i care, i don't play real world mods anyway

[Remianen]

If everyone would just get the game, mess around with the default data, and let mod-maker's work on it (possibly even offer to help... Things like Cutting worker's, etc.), instead of constantly "rushing" them. I would bet you would get much better mods.

 

chris, you are the eternal optimist. I don't think that's the case at all. Just like you said later....

 

There are some that just fill out stats, and let the game go though. That's going to happen no matter what.

 

(Emphasis mine)

 

There are many people who think half the game's current features are 'fluff' and have no impact on gameplay. They're wrong, of course, but because their only frame of reference is mods made by others who feel the same way (and thus make the same mistakes with their data), they don't see it.

 

They'll see it with this game, I assure you.

 

I stand by the message I was attempting to communicate then: We need to be hard on our modding community. Clear criticism of specific issues is the only way we can expect the modding community to meaningfully improve. Listen to me or don't, but either way our community is going to get the mods it deserves.

 

Very good point.

 

****, what do i care, i don't play real world mods anyway

 

QFT~!

[Phil Parent]

When the game comes out, there is always a "Demand", and truly, I could go back and link some unbelievable demands.... that everyone has probably forgot about (although me bringing it up, probably reminds everyone). The demand is, "Give me a real world Mod!" or there is the less demanding demand.... "Is there any real world mods to this? I really want to play the game, but I don't want to buy it without a real world mod."

 

If everyone would just get the game, mess around with the default data, and let mod-maker's work on it (possibly even offer to help... Things like Cutting worker's, etc.), instead of constantly "rushing" them. I would bet you would get much better mods.

 

Don't expect anything, and just use the default. When something comes up (or when someone finish's one of the many announced mods that will pop up), then look at it as a "bonus" instead.

 

 

There are some that just fill out stats, and let the game go though. That's going to happen no matter what. The in game editer can help us "fix" things we don't like when playing them, and the regular editor can let us "fix" them forever. Which is another pet peeve of mine. If you don't like someone's stat, just change it. Don't worry about what the mod-maker wanted, it's your game. Your not going to jail for making Mickey James sex appeal go down (although you will in fact, have bad taste, lol).

 

Bassically, instead of complaining (which is another hardship) about stats, just change them. Complain about duplicates, perhaps someone made a traditional promotion that's historically Lucha, let them know about that kind of stuff. Don't go "Hey man, AJ is good and all, but come on... Those stats are just way too high!"... Unless you think it was an oversight on the modder's part (like perhaps they made AJ a female).

 

Wall Of Text Ahead.

 

The pressure is one thing, but the amount of data possibilities is truly astounding. You can no longer do it as easilly, meaning less people try, and even less actually release anything.

 

I think we're in the era of partnership and larger teams to work on data sets. The times were one guy alone could start from scratch and really do great work has passed, there's simply too much stuff.

 

When I started doing data early in the decade for Promotion Wars, we had two stats, skills & popularity, We had salary, a finishing hold, a short bio, heel/face and that was that. You could hundreds of wrestlers per day from scratch, and that was the only thing you had to do, that and promotions.

 

Today, count the number of fields there are in the database. It's impossible to do it all on your own.

 

So yeah, in the spirit of delivering the goods to the community...the modders should get together and HELP each other. One guy does a venues file, another one does injuries, another one does angles, etc etc...this works good for the "standalone" files that you can edit without disturbing the other files.

 

For workers, it's more complicated, infinitely more complicated. I dream of some omnipotent utility that would connect people working on a same mod together and when they create new workers, everybody's database syncs and the worker gets added to every copy of the set in real time. Otherwise, it's just a pain to send the files left and right and import everything if needed.

 

Or maybe a more advanced importing/patching utility could work where you can, say, take a database you have in hand and another one you received that is updated, and that importing utility would take all new data from the received set and add it to the old one. I can see how this would be hell though.

 

Things have changed. When I started, I could update daily, and those were sturdy updates, with much stuff added. During the whole lifespan of TEW 08, I released or worked on 4-5 things that actually saw the light of day...plus a bunch of others that didn't.

 

I'll get TEW 10 no matter how I get it. There's very interesting stuff in there.

 

I mean, with some of those tools, I wonder, could one do an All-Inclusive, All-Time real-world update that you could start at any point in wrestling history and have it being current for that time, and have it evolve logically from that point. For exemple, you start in the 70's, eventually the 80's come around and WWF booms, and WrestleMania is born and etc etc...you could have death dates for promotions and wrestlers and then the game can have these promotions start to struggle realistically when the date comes around....unless you are the one in charge and make sure it doesn't happen.

 

You could have checkpoints that say, starting this date, this style of wrestling will NEVER be as popular, or will NEVER go out of style, so you can, for exemple, simulate the death of the Thesz style wrestling in the US, or the near-death of the shoot-style wrestling style with the advent of MMA in Japan. Very exciting possibilities. Very amazing project too.

 

You could Rewind, Rewrite and Relive. It's sad that tag line was already used, because if this would be possible, man it would be perfect.

[Donners]

I can't say I have a great interest in modding tools, except as they are used to influence the default data. I have not found a real world mod that I really like - the levels of popularity and skill applied to the same wrestlers varies so greatly between mods that they are clearly unbalanced in some sense. I think it's less a fault of the mod makers, and more that the game is designed for its own universe, not the real world one. As long as the core game is good, I am happy to use the default data.

 

Edit: just saw the latest entry and LOVE the Dirt Sheet. I would play a game of a few months with it on just to get a grip on the mechanics. That would leave me much happier and more understanding of results which I otherwise would not have understood. That feature alone can sell me on this game.

[Stennick]

This Dirt Sheet feature could be interesting. I usually know why I got the grade I got and can usually tell myself exactly what my final show rating will be. That being said it might be nice to peak at all the stuff the game is factoring into each segment although really at the end of the day I kinda like the guessing game. You send two guys out there and you expect a certain grade but ANYTHING can happen I like that aspect. Neat feature but likely it will go unused by me.

 

This will stop the complaints of people SWEARING their show/match/angle deserved a better grade than it got so "teh game must be brokin"

[James Casey]

One to be enabled, no question. It will be fascinating to see why Raphael never gets the ratings he seemingly deserves, for example.

[TeemuFoundation]

I like it. I can pretty much aready tell why a segment bombed, but I'll probably enable it anyways. It makes the game feel that much more alive.

I wonder what the other two unannounced preference features are. I'm so having my fingers crossed for one certain togglable feature to be added.

[Purple Cowboy]

You could sort of equate the Dirt Sheet to watching film of the match over and over afterwards and you'd be able to draw more conclusions with that in-depth look than the Road Agent's live pass. I like it.

[Stennick]

You could sort of equate the Dirt Sheet to watching film of the match over and over afterwards and you'd be able to draw more conclusions with that in-depth look than the Road Agent's live pass. I like it.

 

I like that look at it. I think its a great feature for some folks and I might keep it turned on just in case I run across something I don't understand but yeah its going to help people figure the game out a lot quicker than maybe the last few versions. You'll be able to tell right away whats working and whats not.

[Cold Cobra]

Some good features so far. I love the Dirt Sheet idea, as sometimes I've wondered why a segment was lower than I thought, it will a nice learning expereance. I also like some of stuff you can turn off and on for a game, hopefully there will be a combination to make it a bit more "EWR-like" for someone like myself, who like to just run a promotion without having to think about too much stuff (not that I had a problem with 08, but I still found it damn near impossible to rise a promotion from Regional to higher).

[dvdWarrior]

Great new feature, I like it a lot. Not quite as dazzling as the Narrative and the National Trends, but it'll definitely come in handy. I'll use it for sure. I'm still itching to get to work on my own private database though, I'm really looking forward to that.

 

[Togg]

"Dirt Sheet"

 

Great new addition. As a long term fan and owner of every TEW game it will make my game mind go much deeper into booking. Analysing how such a worker fails in a match or what there really good at showing.

 

My only issue is the title of the new addition... Picky, Yes. Its sort of miss leading for me. i was expecting Internet/TV interview shows like Barber Shop, Brother Love show, Dirt Sheet, Word Up and so on.

 

But hey still a great plus to add more depth to a great game:D

[Ben_91]

Minor, but still handy.

[LoganRodzen]

Minor, but still handy.

 

Minor? I'd say this feature is pretty big... I wonder sometimes why I got a B- rating instead of a B+ or A. This feature is going to show you the mistakes in your booking and basically show you how to avoid those same mistakes in the future. VERY handy.

[Vladamire Dracos]

"Dirt Sheet"

 

Great new addition. As a long term fan and owner of every TEW game it will make my game mind go much deeper into booking. Analysing how such a worker fails in a match or what there really good at showing.

 

My only issue is the title of the new addition... Picky, Yes. Its sort of miss leading for me. i was expecting Internet/TV interview shows like Barber Shop, Brother Love show, Dirt Sheet, Word Up and so on.

 

But hey still a great plus to add more depth to a great game:D

 

With the name I was thinking the Internet had been substantially upgraded to take on a more proper "Wrestlingnewz" style, with more fluff/fake stories to pad it out (which wouldn't be too bad an upgrade, really). As for what the feature actually is, I like it. I've received the occasional strange rating in my time, so having something break down how the world a match starring Mad Dog Mortimer as a drug dealing babyface managed to draw a C+ in a local sized promotion would be nice to have.

[UkWrestleFan]

Liking the sound of The Dirt Sheet. It will probably help diary writers when writing out matches, too. Gives you more of an insight as to what went on in the match.

 

Nice feature.

[edenborn]

I wonder if the Dirt Sheet will include the factors we currently only get clues about from interviews on the website.

 

+ The Monster got a bonus for performing in the opening match

- The Grappler was penalized for facing an opponent of larger size

 

Etc.

[Adam Ryland]

I wonder if the Dirt Sheet will include the factors we currently only get clues about from interviews on the website.

 

I think you've misunderstood the feature - every factor is listed, that's the point.

[praguepride]

I think you've misunderstood the feature - every factor is listed, that's the point.

 

Awesome! I'll finally be able to book a decent match

 

CCW, here we go again. I won't rest until I get a 'B' match out of Leo Davis! (assuming he hasn't retired by now...)

[edenborn]

I think you've misunderstood the feature - every factor is listed, that's the point.

That's great. It's a wonderful addition and it's great that it can be toggled on and off.

 

Dirt Sheet now has the power to drastically change my booking from the beginning of a game. It usually takes me quite a while to discover, for example, that the main eventer I want to push gets nervous the higher up a card he is. Months or years can go by before that fact randomly pops up as a web story. With Dirt Sheet activated, I'd get that insight from the very first show post-mortem, which would be hugely helpful to me as a booker.

[shamelessposer]

I mean, with some of those tools, I wonder, could one do an All-Inclusive, All-Time real-world update that you could start at any point in wrestling history and have it being current for that time, and have it evolve logically from that point. For exemple, you start in the 70's, eventually the 80's come around and WWF booms, and WrestleMania is born and etc etc...you could have death dates for promotions and wrestlers and then the game can have these promotions start to struggle realistically when the date comes around....unless you are the one in charge and make sure it doesn't happen.

 

You could have checkpoints that say, starting this date, this style of wrestling will NEVER be as popular, or will NEVER go out of style, so you can, for exemple, simulate the death of the Thesz style wrestling in the US, or the near-death of the shoot-style wrestling style with the advent of MMA in Japan. Very exciting possibilities. Very amazing project too.

 

You could Rewind, Rewrite and Relive. It's sad that tag line was already used, because if this would be possible, man it would be perfect.

 

This exact feature is in the historical strategy game Europa Universalis III. Pick a date, any date, within the game's almost five hundred year timeline and you can then play as any nation from that period. It's amazing stuff, and I almost put it down as a long shot "suggestion," but with the number of variables involved it's well and truly impossible.